Charles III: Coronation Information and Musings - Part 1

[Hans-Rickard]

I agree that it is not traditional for a Queen Regnant or Consort to attend a coronation. However, if the coronation is in 2023, heirs from Belgium, the Netherlands and Spain will all still be in education, and will not be full time working royals. These three heirs are unlikely to attend the coronation on their own. If they are to attend, they will do so with their mothers, or possibly in the case of the Netherlands and Spain, their grandmothers. If the heirs do not attend, then the Consorts are likely to attend themselves, or in the case of the Netherlands and Spain, the former Queens will attend.

I agree… If Elisabeth and Catharina Amalia attends at all, i do not expect them to go alone…

If they keep the 2200 seating capacity at Westminster Abbey and do not install extra galleries, i think the 2-person rule that with a few exceptions was for the recent State Funeral, will still be in force…. So if they attend at all i think it’s fully possible that they will be accompanied by their mothers.

Leonor is very unlikely to attend as she will be 17 by then (unless they hold the coronation after 31 october next year) so i can imagine either Queen Letizia alone - or Infanta Elena possibly together with her mother Queen Sofia from Spain….

 

[muriel]

Though he was the only adult in the dutch royal family by then, apart from his wife… So they didn’t have any choice of they wanted to be represented at all.

That’s not the case for Spain as the King have 2 sisters and a mother who is still a working royal.

I agree… If Elisabeth and Catharina Amalia attends at all, i do not expect them to go alone…

If they keep the 2200 seating capacity at Westminster Abbey and do not install extra galleries, i think the 2-person rule that with a few exceptions was for the recent State Funeral, will still be in force…. So if they attend at all i think it’s fully possible that they will be accompanied by their mothers.

Leonor is very unlikely to attend as she will be 17 by then (unless they hold the coronation after 31 october next year) so i can imagine either Queen Letizia alone or Infanta Elena possibly together with her mother Queen Sofia from Spain.

I do not see Infanta Elena representing Spain. She is not a part of the royal house. So it will either be Letizia, Letizia & Leonor or Sofia.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

I do not see Infanta Elena representing Spain. She is not a part of the royal house. So it will either be Letizia, Letizia & Leonor or Sofia.

Possibly a 1-person representation then…. I do not expect both Queen’s from Spain as it is no secret that they do not go along unless their husbands are there too :-D

 

[muriel]

Possibly a 1-person representation then…. I do not expect both Queen’s from Spain as it is no secret that they do not go along unless their husbands are there too :-D

One of the Queen's from Spain is probably the correct answer.

 

[irish_royalist]

The only Queen at the coronation will be Queen Camilla. Traditionally monarchs and their consorts do not attend the investiture of other monarchs and are represented by the heir to the throne if they are old enough. Even Queen Mothers never attended their child's coronation. Queen Mary broke this tradition to support her son who was a bag of nerves due to his stammer. Queen Elizabeth attended her daughter's coronation but should never have been there. I was told that originally she was not included in the plans but kicked up such a fuss that her daughter, who apparantly was under her thumb, had the plans changed.

I'm aware of this tradition, but what is the historical reasoning behind it?
In case a foreign monarch should try to claim another throne at a coronation?!?

 

[SirGyamfi1]

I'm aware of this tradition, but what is the historical reasoning behind it?
In case a foreign monarch should try to claim another throne at a coronation?!?

It isn’t about claiming thrones,

 

[tihkon2]

I'm aware of this tradition, but what is the historical reasoning behind it?
In case a foreign monarch should try to claim another throne at a coronation?!?

I believe it's because the new monarch should be the highest ranking person at the coronation.

 

[Denville]

I imagine that it is to do with not stealing thunder. The new monarch at a coronation is the most important person and other monarchs step back so as to avoid intruding on that special occasion.

 

[Susan D]

I hope King Charles' coronation is not too grand because the British people need to get the message that the Empire is gone.

 

[Mirabel]

I hope King Charles' coronation is not too grand because the British people need to get the message that the Empire is gone.

But tourists want to see a "grand" coronation.
They won't come if Charles wears a suit and there's nobody in the Abbey.

 

[Denville]

I hope King Charles' coronation is not too grand because the British people need to get the message that the Empire is gone.

why? The British people are aware that the Empire ended almost a century ago. How can you say what they should have for thier kings coronation?

 

[Blog Real]

I hope King Charles' coronation is not too grand because the British people need to get the message that the Empire is gone.

I hope to see a great coronation with all the tradition, but being adapted for the present. But I hope to see members of other royal houses, tiaras, the imperial crown, etc...

 

[Drakes]

I hope King Charles' coronation is not too grand because the British people need to get the message that the Empire is gone.

To British people of my generation, the Empire's long gone and there's a sense of shame about it - so no worries on that account!

But Charles' coronation definitely won't be so grand, it would not be considered appropriate with all the fiscal problems - for example the sight of all the peers wearing robes and coronets would be considered an ostentatious display of wealth.

 

[FigTree]

I hope King Charles' coronation is not too grand because the British people need to get the message that the Empire is gone.

It’s going to be the British doing what the British do well. There is no appetite in the Uk though to have loads of people and it’s robes and crowns and tiara and finery. A more relatable coronation hopefully. No young George and Charlotte in robes and crowns.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Will there be a Coronation Bouquet?
The Coronation Bouquet of Queen Elizabeth II was made up of white flowers.

​

 

[Saragli]

I hope King Charles' coronation is not too grand because the British people need to get the message that the Empire is gone.

I think most British are very aware that the Empire is, and has been, gone. However, even with the cost of living crisis and current economy, the UK is still one of the richest nations in the world. I see no reason to pretend otherwise.

 

[Sister Morphine]

I think most British are very aware that the Empire is, and has been, gone. However, even with the cost of living crisis and current economy, the UK is still one of the richest nations in the world. I see no reason to pretend otherwise.

There's a difference between pretending otherwise and ostentatiousness. Coronations are by design grand events, but when people are struggling to put food on the table or pay their bills, there comes a point where you have to admit when too much is too much.

I'm in no way suggesting the same thing could or would happen in the UK, but the French Revolution had its roots in a lower/middle class tired of seeing the aristocracy and above flaunt their wealth while people were starving. While Madame La Guillotine will not be making any appearances in Trafalgar Square, if you don't want Republicanism to take root, dial it back a little.

I don't think anyone is suggesting there should be no coronation, but it needs to be smaller than what QEII had. Even William's eventual investiture as Prince of Wales will be far more scaled back than Charles's was. Times have changed, and people's opinions of the monarchy have changed. They need to adapt with the changing times. All monarchies do, otherwise they'll be voted out, so to speak.

 

[Toledo]

I think most British are very aware that the Empire is, and has been, gone. However, even with the cost-of-living crisis and current economy, the UK is still one of the richest nations in the world. I see no reason to pretend otherwise.

I disagree, I hope is a grand event of pageantry and glam televised and streamed live around the World. The people, not just the UK, need something spectacular and happy so we can rest for one day from politics, tabloid celebrities' nonsense, and tired old reality TV.

I'm 61 going 62 in December, if lucky I might have 20 more years around so let this be my grand 1952 coronation moment!

 

[Iluvbertie]

The issue with it being a big 'world event' is that only the people of the UK will be paying for it.

The Daily Express is saying it will be a lot simpler and less ostentatious than The Queen's, that a date has already been set but obviously not announced yet and that a lot of the non-legal requirements will be removed from the ceremony.

I can see two cars - one for Charles and Camilla and one for William and Catherine while all other BRF members travel by bus and everyone else also by bus. I can see no robes or tiaras and day dresses and morning suits.

I think there may well only be two people doing homage - The Archbishop of Canterbury on behalf of all the clergy of the CoE and William on behalf of all peers (and having done it at the coronation no need for an investiture - just a simple acknowledgement in the Welsh Assembly after the coronation).

Sorry but I really do see a very small ceremony - remember that the Queen had 8000 in the Abbey which can now only seat about 2000 as we saw at the funeral last week.

I also think the overseas countries will be represented only by the High Commissioner or Ambassador and so no overseas royals or other politicians.

A very much smaller event and by William's time probably just appearing on the balcony with the Crown and no ceremony at all - a very European approach (which is what most posters here seem to think the British need to do)

 

[HRHHermione]

The issue with it being a big 'world event' is that only the people of the UK will be paying for it.

The Daily Express is saying it will be a lot simpler and less ostentatious than The Queen's, that a date has already been set but obviously not announced yet and that a lot of the non-legal requirements will be removed from the ceremony.

I can see two cars - one for Charles and Camilla and one for William and Catherine while all other BRF members travel by bus and everyone else also by bus. I can see no robes or tiaras and day dresses and morning suits.

I think there may well only be two people doing homage - The Archbishop of Canterbury on behalf of all the clergy of the CoE and William on behalf of all peers (and having done it at the coronation no need for an investiture - just a simple acknowledgement in the Welsh Assembly after the coronation).

Sorry but I really do see a very small ceremony - remember that the Queen had 8000 in the Abbey which can now only seat about 2000 as we saw at the funeral last week.

I also think the overseas countries will be represented only by the High Commissioner or Ambassador and so no overseas royals or other politicians.

A very much smaller event and by William's time probably just appearing on the balcony with the Crown and no ceremony at all - a very European approach (which is what most posters here seem to think the British need to do)

Oh, I hope this isn’t true. You usually have a good sense about these things, but I hope there is a middle way that feels exciting and momentous. This sounds like a dreary little church service.

 

[muriel]

The issue with it being a big 'world event' is that only the people of the UK will be paying for it.

The Daily Express is saying it will be a lot simpler and less ostentatious than The Queen's, that a date has already been set but obviously not announced yet and that a lot of the non-legal requirements will be removed from the ceremony.

I can see two cars - one for Charles and Camilla and one for William and Catherine while all other BRF members travel by bus and everyone else also by bus. I can see no robes or tiaras and day dresses and morning suits.

I think there may well only be two people doing homage - The Archbishop of Canterbury on behalf of all the clergy of the CoE and William on behalf of all peers (and having done it at the coronation no need for an investiture - just a simple acknowledgement in the Welsh Assembly after the coronation).

Sorry but I really do see a very small ceremony - remember that the Queen had 8000 in the Abbey which can now only seat about 2000 as we saw at the funeral last week.

I also think the overseas countries will be represented only by the High Commissioner or Ambassador and so no overseas royals or other politicians.

A very much smaller event and by William's time probably just appearing on the balcony with the Crown and no ceremony at all - a very European approach (which is what most posters here seem to think the British need to do)

I agree the Coronation will be substantially scaled down from the 1953 event, but to what extent remains to be seen. Some thoughts:

> Can't see robes, coronets and tiara's, other than for the King and Queen. Perhaps morning suits and long dresses for the ladies of the immediate BRF?

> Shorter CoE ceremony, followed by blessing from religious leaders of all faiths

> A much more inclusive ceremony, with people from all walks of life invited to be at the Abbey. Limited representation of MPs and Lords.

> Scaled back representation of foreign heads of state. Perhaps just representatives of the crowned heads. Perhaps Ambassadors and High Commissioners greeted at a reception after the Coronation, rather than at the Abbey

> Limited procession to the Abbey

 

[muriel]

I hope King Charles' coronation is not too grand because the British people need to get the message that the Empire is gone.

Love it. This is just the way we are going to realise that the world has moved on from days of Empire. ??

 

[Iluvbertie]

It would be a massive breach of protocol for 'crowned heads' to attend at all. Charles has to be the most senior person there and he is now 'junior' to all other Heads of State in the world as the newest. That is why no Heads of State will be present.

The High Commissioners will definitely be at the Abbey as they represent the countries of the Commonwealth, some of which will be representatives of countries whose Head of State will be being crowned.

Ambassadors are less important but I can see them attending to represent their nations - with no other representatives coming to the UK.

I am not sure there should be any reduction in the CoE service as this is the crowing of not just the secular Head of State - which can be done anywhere - but the crowning of the Supreme Governor of the Church of England, which can only be done in a CoE service. In fact they can leave out all the secular stuff and do that in the street but the religious part can't be cut.

All the the cabinet will be there obviously.

I think only two cars will process to the Abbey while the majority of the BRF will travel by bus and not process even in the Abbey.

 

[muriel]

It would be a massive breach of protocol for 'crowned heads' to attend at all. Charles has to be the most senior person there and he is now 'junior' to all other Heads of State in the world as the newest. That is why no Heads of State will be present.

The High Commissioners will definitely be at the Abbey as they represent the countries of the Commonwealth, some of which will be representatives of countries whose Head of State will be being crowned.

Ambassadors are less important but I can see them attending to represent their nations - with no other representatives coming to the UK.

I take your point about crowned Heads of State, I meant to say representatives of crowned Heads of State, and have amended my post accordingly.

I suspect PMs of the Realms will be present in the Abbey. Other High Commissioners can be at a Diplomatic reception for High Commissioners and Ambassadors, where the King and Queen, and the Prince and Princess of Wales can meet them. A bit like the annual Diplomatic Reception.

All the the cabinet will be there obviously.

Personally, the PM and those that occupy the 4 great offices of state should represent the government, the rest of the cabinet and MPs can watch the event at home like the rest of us. Space freed up can be allocated to members of the general public from all walks of life.

I am not sure there should be any reduction in the CoE service as this is the crowing of not just the secular Head of State - which can be done anywhere - but the crowning of the Supreme Governor of the Church of England, which can only be done in a CoE service. In fact they can leave out all the secular stuff and do that in the street but the religious part can't be cut.

The religious significance of the event cannot and should not be underestimated. I am merely suggesting that the service be adapted to allow for evolving religious sentiments and shorter attention spans that people have these days. Perhaps an event that lasts 60-90 minutes all in.

I think only two cars will process to the Abbey while the majority of the BRF will travel by bus and not process even in the Abbey.

What about Harry, Meghan, Oprah, Gayle, Beyonce and Serena?

 

[Curryong]

Harry is King Charles’s son and he and Meghan, his wife, will certainly be there.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Harry will be there of course but I suspect lumped in with the rest of the royals but no in a car but in a bus.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I take your point about crowned Heads of State, I meant to say representatives of crowned Heads of State, and have amended my post accordingly.

I suspect PMs of the Realms will be present in the Abbey. Other High Commissioners can be at a Diplomatic reception for High Commissioners and Ambassadors, where the King and Queen, and the Prince and Princess of Wales can meet them. A bit like the annual Diplomatic Reception.

I don't agree. They represent the Commonwealth and Charles is Head of the Commonwealth so those countries would expect to be represented at the Coronation due to this event being the crowning of the new Head of the Commonwealth.

Ambassadors aren't needed but I suspect they will also be there.

Personally, the PM and those that occupy the 4 great offices of state should represent the government, the rest of the cabinet and MPs can watch the event at home like the rest of us. Space freed up can be allocated to members of the general public from all walks of life.

As Charles is the Head of State and the government is HIS government I would expect those people to be present.

As for people from 'all walks of life' they will be represented via people from the various charities that have been supported by Charles and Camilla.

The religious significance of the event cannot and should not be underestimated. I am merely suggesting that the service be adapted to allow for evolving religious sentiments and shorter attention spans that people have these days. Perhaps an event that lasts 60-90 minutes all in.

A standard divine service is about 60 minutes and as the new King will be crowned as Supreme Governor it is expected that he will then take communion so only 30 minutes for the arrival at the abbey, acknowledgement of the new king, the oath as King, the actual crowning, the homage etc.

I can see a service of about 2 - 2.5 hours. The easiest way to cut time is to cut out the music and keep any procession of clergy and royals to nothing - they simply arrive with everyone else and take their seats with no TV coverage until the Prince and Princess of Wales arrive.

What about Harry, Meghan, Oprah, Gayle, Beyonce and Serena?

Harry and Meghan will be invited of course but the others are 'who' to many people. No one expects American celebrities to be invited to the coronation of a British King - more likely to be celebrities from the UK and other realms - or more likely 'ordinary people' from the realms, along with VC and GC winners.

 

[Alison H]

I hope King Charles' coronation is not too grand because the British people need to get the message that the Empire is gone.

Why do the British people need to get the message that the Empire is gone? Everyone is well aware that the days of Empire are over. And what does the coronation have to do with the Empire? Grand coronations were taking place long before there was an Empire, if you actually look into history.

 

[wbenson]

One thing I've been wondering since February, when it was reported that Camilla would be crowned with the crown made for Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, is if the crown will be modified to remove the Koh-i-Noor diamond. I think it might be for the best if it was. It's controversial enough just sitting in the Tower; the prospect of it actually being worn at such a high-profile event would risk overshadowing the entire thing. I don't think it would be that hard to replace it with something; perhaps they could even use the jewels that replaced it in Queen Mary's crown in 1937.

 

[Lilyflo]

I agree the Coronation will be substantially scaled down from the 1953 event, but to what extent remains to be seen. Some thoughts:

> Can't see robes, coronets and tiara's, other than for the King and Queen. Perhaps morning suits and long dresses for the ladies of the immediate BRF?

> Shorter CoE ceremony, followed by blessing from religious leaders of all faiths

> A much more inclusive ceremony, with people from all walks of life invited to be at the Abbey. Limited representation of MPs and Lords.

> Scaled back representation of foreign heads of state. Perhaps just representatives of the crowned heads. Perhaps Ambassadors and High Commissioners greeted at a reception after the Coronation, rather than at the Abbey

> Limited procession to the Abbey

I like all of these suggestions and I hope they'll use the gold coach.

If they limit the use of robes and tiaras for the coronation, would that be seen as less pomp than the state opening of parliament or have they done away with tiaras for that (which I hope they have - I can't remember)?