Dera Marengo, Thank you very much for your valuable information, it was really interesting.Just as an aside I felt I should tell you that to say someone has converted to papism is a bit derogatory.I know you didn't mean anything bad by it and no offence was taken .It is kind of like calling someone who lives in the artic an eskimo instead of an Inuit which is the word they prefer.Also could you explain to me what ps stands for when you were explaining the difference between holland and the netherlands.thanks and please accept my explanation with the good intent that it had.