Anna Anderson's claim to be Grand Duchess Anastasia

[Russophile]

Well who has Anastasia Manahan been legally proven to be?

Anastasia Manahan. . . .

 

[OlgaNikolaievna]

The DNA is all we need! The whole world accepts this reality it's only those who want to keep believing in claimants that make these strange ideas up. The reason it's not in court is because the Anderson supporters have not taken it because the DNA is against them and those who believe the DNA knows it's not necessary.

 

[BorisRom]

Two articles about Anna Anderson

In English:
"Anna - Anastasia":
Anna-Anastasia (Âëàäèìèð Ìîìîò) / Ïðîçà.ðó - íàöèîíàëüíûé ñåðâåð ñîâðåìåííîé ïðîçû

"The Night without a Dawn":
The Night without a Dawn (Âëàäèìèð Ìîìîò) / Ïðîçà.ðó - íàöèîíàëüíûé ñåðâåð ñîâðåìåííîé ïðîçû

 

[OlgaNikolaievna]

Those articles do not seem very factual.

In conclusion I want to remind once again, that Anastasia Nikolaevna Romanova was born on June, 18, 1901 in Petergof, and died on February, 12, 1984, in Sharlottsville. According to her will, her ashes after cremation have been transported to Bavaria and have been buried on the family cemetery of the Dukes Leihtenbergskiy in Zeeon. She has lived a difficult life, keeping honor and dignity of Grand Princess. Yekaterinburg, 2007

This is a very incorrect and not factual conclusion! It is so sad to see a writeup where poor Anastasia who died so horribly at only 17 and never had a chance for a real life to be declared to be the same person as Anderson, the crazy, dirty old woman in Charlottesville who had no honor or dignity with her life of lies and her nasty dirty house! They were not the same person, give Anastasia her dignity please!

 

[AGRBear]

Those articles do not seem very factual. This is a very incorrect and not factual conclusion! It is so sad to see a writeup where poor Anastasia who died so horribly at only 17 and never had a chance for a real life to be declared to be the same person as Anderson, the crazy, dirty old woman in Charlottesville who had no honor or dignity with her life of lies and her nasty dirty house! They were not the same person, give Anastasia her dignity please!

This post is not an argument as to AA being GD Anastasia or not. This is not about DNA. This about downgrading a person who has a title (Grand Duchess to Baroness) who have ended their lives similar to that of AA. When you voice this kind of opinion, it is obvious that you have never experienced the problems of "depression" often times suffered by survivors and/or aging of a loved one. Since I'm not privy to AA's mental records as she aged, I do not know if she was suffering from depression or just the general mental deterioration of aging or,maybe, both, which happens to the majority of the population when they reach a partiular age. Both depression and mental deterioration often have similar traits. It happens to the titled and to the homeless we see sleeping in boxes in some dark passage way.

It bothers me when people make claims that an aging Grand Duchess would never have too many cats, not clean her own house or dress what the you or I wouldn't be caught dead in wearing. This just isn't true.

As for providing a memory of Grand Duchess Anastasia, everyone can do this or not do this in their own personal way. Russia has told us that they have buried her with her family and on the 90th anniversary of Nicholas II's and the others death, it was celebrated with flare this last July.

Meanwhile, I will continue to ask questions about the events around the Russian Royal Family's death. This does not mean I am continuing because I want to find something dishonorable about any of them. I continue because I think someone needs to ask questions and make sure we get the truthful answers this time around.

AGRBear

 

[Anna was Franziska]

From the text follows that there were only three corsets with diamonds. And where have the corsets of Maria and Alexey been then?

Maria didn't get to sew any jewels in, since this was done after she left with her parents for Ekaterinburg, and the others who stayed behind and came later were the ones who did the sewing. This is told in "Last Days of the Romanovs." Alexei was a boy, and boys don't wear corsets.

 

[Elspeth]

Because it means that Anastasia Manahan has not legally been determined to be Franzisca Schanzkowska.

The point is that there hasn't been a legal challenge, and so the fact that there hasn't been a legal decision is irrelevant; it's just part of the package that goes along with the absence of a legal challenge.

Perhaps the more important point is why there hasn't been a legal challenge of the DNA results, if the outcome would be so conclusive.

 

[COUNTESS]

There is no such thing, as a "general mental deterioration", in aging. Many elderly people retain their ability to be sharp and mentally acute. Some, do have unfortunate diseases, such as Alzheimers and related illness. This is not "general". AA may have suffered from one of these problems, or she might have been mentally from a very early age.

 

[Anna was Franziska]

Franziska Schanskowska, the person generally accepted as being AA by most scientists, historians and news services, was declared mentally insane in 1916. AA tried to kill herself in 1920, which would fit in with FS's problems. Also, AA was put in and out of asylums all her life. She always displayed signs of mental illness such as mood swings, odd behavior, having dozens of animals in a filthy house, paranoia, and, of course, pretending to be a dead princess. IMO, she did probably eventually come to believe her fantasy in old age, at least by the time she married Manahan. But in the first couple of decades of her claim, I really do think she knew exactly who she was and what she was doing. This is why she hid under the sheets, avoided certain people, and refused to testify in court on her own behalf. (now Chat is going to tell you all this was caused by the 'trauma' of "Ekaterinburg" and that 'she was above the courts', oh well, I'll let you decide which one makes more sense)

 

[ChatNoir]

Franziska Schanskowska, the person generally accepted as being AA by most scientists, historians and news services, was declared mentally insane in 1916. AA tried to kill herself in 1920, which would fit in with FS's problems. Also, AA was put in and out of asylums all her life. She always displayed signs of mental illness such as mood swings, odd behavior, having dozens of animals in a filthy house, paranoia, and, of course, pretending to be a dead princess. IMO, she did probably eventually come to believe her fantasy in old age, at least by the time she married Manahan. But in the first couple of decades of her claim, I really do think she knew exactly who she was and what she was doing. This is why she hid under the sheets, avoided certain people, and refused to testify in court on her own behalf. (now Chat is going to tell you all this was caused by the 'trauma' of "Ekaterinburg" and that 'she was above the courts', oh well, I'll let you decide which one makes more sense)

I think you forget the FACT that NO doctor ever questioned AA's sanity. Never. And she was NEVER put into an asylum for the reason of being insane. NEVER!
Please do your homework.

 

[tsarskoe]

I should like to again point out that even though Franziska Schanzkowska may have been termed "insane" it could be for a variety of reasons. No one (to my knowledge) including any of her family members, friends, etc ever stated that Franziska was delusional. I have never heard any statements that she was psychotic (suffering from auditory or visual hallucinations). She may have simply suffered from melancholy (aka depression).

That being said it is true that Anna Anderson was never deemed psychotic though certainly she was at times mentally unstable, she suffered from bouts of depression, anxiety and certainly paranoia. (ie. AA had attempted to commit suicide and was thus hospitalized in 1920, later in NY after several bizarre incidents she was interred in a mental institution, in old age she suffered from senility etc.)

Whether AA was "insane" or not doesn't prove she was or was not Franziska. The few references to her hospital stays are far to brief to discern much valuable information from. (I do find it interesting that in La Fausse Anastasie it is mentioned that during one of her hospitalizations Franziska refused to identify herself or give any information which is similar to AA's reaction upon her internment into the Dalldorf asylum. This of course doesn't "prove" anything but it is interesting to note). I would like to see Franziska's records to determine what psychiatric symptoms she suffered from these could then be compared to those which AA experienced. That being said if these symptoms matched it wouldn't prove identity but it would be yet another piece of evidence.

 

[ChatNoir]

Yes, it would be really interesting to see FS's records, and I think they will be published one day. All I know from the ones that have seen them, is that the records from AEG shows no signs of bodily damage, and no sign of a pregnancy. This is consistent with statements from her family as well.
As for AA being shipped off to a mental institution in New York, that was made possible by bribing three doctors in order to have them sign the commitment papers. It was stated afterwords, from the hospital, that she just was in need of rest for her frazzled nerves.
Regarding "La Fausse Anastasie", are there any copies of the quoted records in the book?

 

[Anna was Franziska]

I seriously question the alleged 'records' Chat claims exist, since they have never been produced by anyone, there is no proof, and they go against what has been written about AA in books for decades. FS being injured is well documented in several books. The most ridiculous thing is to expect us to believe that such things suddenly showed up that were never found in all those years of intense trial drama,and after 2 World Wars devastated much of Berlin! Heck, I can't even get records from five years ago from modern doctors still in business!

As I've said before, no record of pregnancy means NOTHING since in those days people hid illegitimate pregnancies as a shame and disgrace, and families went to great lengths to lie and hide them. Generally, people do not get sent to insane asylums for no reason, even if it happens once it's rare, yet AA was put in again and again. Where there's smoke,there's fire. I have posted documentation on this earlier in this thread. If you see how she acted at the Jennings' before she was hauled away, you'll see she deserved to go."Frazzled nerves" huh, that's a good one, in the old days, families often attributed their relative's issues to 'a nervous condition' when they were sent 'away.' Mental illness, like illegitimate pregnancy, full term or not, were a source of much embarrassment and coverups in generations past.

 

[ChatNoir]

I seriously question the alleged 'records' Chat claims exist, since they have never been produced by anyone, there is no proof, and they go against what has been written about AA in books for decades.

And still you seem to have no questions of the records of FS mentioned in False Anastasia. Interesting. And they do not go against any other information. According to the family, FS was not injured at the explosion at the AEG and did not enter a hospital until later. If she had been injured, she would have been hospitalized that very day.

FS being injured is well documented in several books.

No, it is not well documented, only presumed.

The most ridiculous thing is to expect us to believe that such things suddenly showed up that were never found in all those years of intense trial drama,and after 2 World Wars devastated much of Berlin!

Not ridiculous at all. Fallow's daughter refused to send her father's papers to the Hamburg court. Herluf Zahle's dossier is still being kept by the Danish Royal Family. Grand Duke Andrew's papers were confiscated by his family. Lots of material from witnesses was not presented in the lawsuit.

As I've said before, no record of pregnancy means NOTHING since in those days people hid illegitimate pregnancies as a shame and disgrace, and families went to great lengths to lie and hide them.

No records of a pregnancy mean just that. Until you can prove otherwise. And I think the Wingenders or Gertrude would have known.

Generally, people do not get sent to insane asylums for no reason, even if it happens once it's rare, yet AA was put in again and again.I have posted documentation on this earlier in this thread.

No, generally they don't. But after weeks of trying to determine her identity, the Berlin Police did not know what to do with her, and she was sent off to Dalldorf as a last resort. The diagnosis was "depression". As I explained earlier, the commitment to Four Winds Sanatorium was fraudulent. When she later was transferred to Ilten, she was immediately told that she was free to go, there was nothing mentally wrong with her. And of course, as soon as someone was willing to house her, she was released from Dalldorf without questions.

If you see how she acted at the Jennings' before she was hauled away, you'll see she deserved to go."Frazzled nerves" huh, that's a good one, in the old days, families often attributed their relative's issues to 'a nervous condition' when they were sent 'away.' Mental issues, like illegitimate pregnancy, full term or not, were a source of much embarrassment and coverups in generations past.

And if all people who suffer nervous breakdowns are sent to asylums, we would have to build quite a few more to house them all. And it is so funny that you always haul out the good old embarrassment factor over an unwanted pregnancy in the case of FS, but still want AA to present herself to the Queen of Rumania in the same situation.

 

[Anna was Franziska]

According to the family, FS was not injured at the explosion at the AEG and did not enter a hospital until later. If she had been injured, she would have been hospitalized that very day.

As I have said before, the family had denied her for her and their own good, therefore they could not contradict themselves by giving info that would make her look like FS. Besides the family was not there, she was living away from home.

No, it is not well documented, only presumed.

By Robert K. Massie?! He has the story of her injury in his book and I've posted this for you before.You only like to deny she was hurt because you want to pretend the scars were from 'Ekaterinburg.' Nobody stands next to a foreman blown to bits and suffers no injuries.

No records of a pregnancy mean just that. Until you can prove otherwise. And I think the Wingenders or Gertrude would have known.

You need to realize, she wasn't in the US in the 21st century. Not everyone went to the dr. Even these days, girls hide their pregnancies and toss their newborns in garbage cans, and nobody knows until they get caught. Also as I've said before, the baby does not have to be full term to produce the same scars on the uterus as a full term baby. A lost or aborted fetus of at least four months would do that. A troubled unmarried girl in those days was very likely to hide her pregnancy. I believe whatever happend to the baby played a part in the depression she felt when she tried to commit suicide.

But after weeks of trying to determine her identity, the Berlin Police did not know what to do with her, and she was sent off to Dalldorf as a last resort.

We've been through the police, putch, and all that many times.

And it is so funny that you always haul out the good old embarrassment factor over an unwanted pregnancy in the case of FS, but still want AA to present herself to the Queen of Rumania in the same situation.

Sigh, here's another 'going in circles' repeat topic. I'll give you the same answer as always- everyone in the family said that Marie of Romania was by far the most liberal of the family and the only one who would not be shocked, yet Irene of Hesse, the one AA claimed to be going to seek out, was one of the most prudish who would have been shocked, and anyone in the family, including a real AN, would have known this- so yet another shot in the foot for the pathetic lost cause of AA.

But of course the real reason AA didn't go to Marie in Romania is because she wasn't AN and was never really in Romania. It was just a fake story.

 

[ChatNoir]

As I have said before, the family had denied her for her and their own good, therefore they could not contradict themselves by giving info that would make her look like FS. Besides the family was not there, she was living away from home.

You are simply making this up to fit your story. And FS was living with Gertrude before she moved in with the Wingenders.

By Robert K. Massie?! He has the story of her injury in his book and I've posted this for you before.You only like to deny she was hurt because you want to pretend the scars were from 'Ekaterinburg.' Nobody stands next to a foreman blown to bits and suffers no injuries.

Robert Massie has nothing to document this with. Felix stated to Dr. Völler BEFORE he met AA that FS received no wounds in the explosion and was admitted to a hospital later. And how do you know how far that grenade rolled before it exploded? The fact is, you don't!

You need to realize, she wasn't in the US in the 21st century. Not everyone went to the dr. Even these days, girls hide their pregnancies and toss their newborns in garbage cans, and nobody knows until they get caught. Also as I've said before, the baby does not have to be full term to produce the same scars on the uterus as a full term baby. A lost or aborted fetus of at least four months would do that. A troubled unmarried girl in those days was very likely to hide her pregnancy. I believe whatever happend to the baby played a part in the depression she felt when she tried to commit suicide.

Again, you are making up the whole thing to fit your story. FS has NO record of ever being pregnant.

We've been through the police, putch, and all that many times.

Yes, and as AGRBear has shown you, the Putsch had no impact on the police. And do you remember who was AA's host after Kleist? It was Inspector Grünberg with the Berlin Police himself. I think her case got more than average attention. You will do well in reading up on the story.

Sigh, here's another 'going in circles' repeat topic. I'll give you the same answer as always- everyone in the family said that Marie of Romania was by far the most liberal of the family and the only one who would not be shocked, yet Irene of Hesse, the one AA claimed to be going to seek out, was one of the most prudish who would have been shocked, and anyone in the family, including a real AN, would have known this- so yet another shot in the foot for the pathetic lost cause of AA.

And how would Irene know of any baby unless being told??

But of course the real reason AA didn't go to Marie in Romania is because she wasn't AN and was never really in Romania. It was just a fake story.

And so is yours.

 

[Anna was Franziska]

You are simply making this up to fit your story.

You keep forgetting- I have REALITY on my side! We KNOW AA and FS were the same person, therefore, common sense tells us that something happened to FS's baby!

Robert Massie has nothing to document this with.

So you doubt the great Massie? Why? Because you don't like his conclusions?

And how do you know how far that grenade rolled before it exploded? The fact is, you don't!

OMG LOL! You have tired this 'how far did it roll' line before! What a stretch!

Again, you are making up the whole thing to fit your story. FS has NO record of ever being pregnant.

Again, I have reality on my side, AA and FS were the same person, therefore FS had been pregnant. We can speculate on what happened to her baby or fetus, but she was pregnant.

Yes, and as AGRBear has shown you, the Putsch had no impact on the police.

Bear has shown me nothing of the kind. The Putch was joined by the Police. You are incredibly delusional to believe they were going about business as usual while part of a coup, or for days/weeks after as unrest and riots ensued. One missing girl among many in a postwar city of many missing people was hardly a high priority. This is why her case slipped thru the cracks in the early days of the investigation.

You will do well in reading up on the story.

Actually, the more I read, the more holes I find in the story!

And how would Irene know of any baby unless being told??

Fact is, she never went to berlin to seek out Irene, because she wasn't AN. She was FS, and she was already in Berlin working.

And so is yours.

I'm afraid not. However, AA's entire 'escape story' NEVER HAPPENED! Once you accept that you will be much better off.

 

[ChatNoir]

You keep forgetting- I have REALITY on my side! We KNOW AA and FS were the same person, therefore, common sense tells us that something happened to FS's baby!

No, we do NOT know that AA and FS were the same person.

So you doubt the great Massie? Why? Because you don't like his conclusions?

No, simply because Massie never met FS, and he has no documentation for his claim.

OMG LOL! You have tired this 'how far did it roll' line before! What a stretch!

A stretch? I think having a fictional baby is more of a stretch. We have NO documentation saying that FS got hurt in the AEG accident, but we have documentation and witnesses to the opposite.

Again, I have reality on my side, AA and FS were the same person, therefore FS had been pregnant. We can speculate on what happened to her baby or fetus, but she was pregnant.

And again, AA and FS could not have been the same person.

Bear has shown me nothing of the kind. The Putch was joined by the Police. You are incredibly delusional to believe they were going about business as usual while part of a coup, or for days/weeks after as unrest and riots ensued. One missing girl among many in a postwar city of many missing people was hardly a high priority. This is why her case slipped thru the cracks in the early days of the investigation.

Here is AGRBear's post:
12 March to 17 March was the Kapp Putsch.

There were special police forces which handled the strikes which did not stop the mail.

My opinion is based on Post Office history. AWF's opinion is based on assumption.

The pay to the Weimer Police is quite interesting. Due to the hyperinfation, the police's pay kept pace. Let say they earned 20 dollars a day before hyperinfation, as the money devalued, their pay kept in pace with the 20 dollar value. Sometimes this value changed two or three times a day. So did the pay to the police. The Weimer Republic did NOT want their police to lose sleep over the fact that there was hyperinfation and wanted them to keep their attention on their cases. Also, when food was growing scarce, they had cafeterias set up so the police could have breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Of course, there were police who took money under the table but that occurs everywhere, even, now.

And the police was so interested in the case that Police Inspector Grünberg himself took AA in as a house guest while he continued his investigation.

Actually, the more I read, the more holes I find in the story!

Not to speak of the holes in your own version.......

Fact is, she never went to berlin to seek out Irene, because she wasn't AN. She was FS, and she was already in Berlin working.

Yes, FS was in Berlin and was not reported missing until "sometime in March", weeks after AA surfaced.

I'm afraid not. However, AA's entire 'escape story' NEVER HAPPENED! Once you accept that you will be much better off.

You better tell that to Sarscha Gregorian who testified to helping the Grand Duchess Anastasia cross the Dniestr on December 5, 1918.

 

[Anna was Franziska]

No, we do NOT know that AA and FS were the same person.

Go ahead and hang onto that 00.01%, it will do you no good. Even if she wasn't FS, she was still 100% NOT AN.

No, simply because Massie never met FS, and he has no documentation for his claim.

His records came from Berenberg-Gossler's research and records.
I trust Massie.

A stretch? I think having a fictional baby is more of a stretch. We have NO documentation saying that FS got hurt in the AEG accident, but we have documentation and witnesses to the opposite.

She was injured, and it also led to her mental problems. You dare say 'fictional baby' when you buy an entire fictional STORY, of a FICTIONAL ESCAPE, fictional baby and all? Don't forget there were at least 3 versions of what allegedly happened to her baby, of course, since they were all lies, she had to come up with the most buyable one.

And again, AA and FS could not have been the same person.

Oh, yes they were. You want to get rid of FS so bad, but she's not going anywhere.

Here is AGRBear's post:
12 March to 17 March was the Kapp Putsch.

There were special police forces which handled the strikes which did not stop the mail.

Where's the proof? She posted a letter dated the 12th, the Putch broke out on the 13th.

My opinion is based on Post Office history. AWF's opinion is based on assumption.

Sorry, my info came from the History Learning site


::Kapp Putsch::

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/wei2.htmhttp://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/weimar_republic_problems.htm

The pay to the Weimer Police is quite interesting. Due to the hyperinfation, the police's pay kept pace. Let say they earned 20 dollars a day before hyperinfation, as the money devalued, their pay kept in pace with the 20 dollar value. Sometimes this value changed two or three times a day. So did the pay to the police. The Weimer Republic did NOT want their police to lose sleep over the fact that there was hyperinfation and wanted them to keep their attention on their cases.

Read the article I posted, the reason they paid them several times a day was so they could give the money to their wives before the prices went up later in the day!

And the police was so interested in the case that Police Inspector Grünberg himself took AA in as a house guest while he continued his investigation.

and then put himself under scrunity and questionable behavior

Yes, FS was in Berlin and was not reported missing until "sometime in March", weeks after AA surfaced.

We've been through this NUMEROUS times. It's no big deal she wasn't reported immediately. Those weren't times of cell phones and emails, families often went weeks or months w/o hearing from someone. Most people didn't even have phones. So it took longer to realize she was really gone and not just off somewhere with a man or something. Also, even to this day, many people are not reported 'missing' until they are gone for weeks. I see it all the time. This means nothing.

You better tell that to Sarscha Gregorian who testified to helping the Grand Duchess Anastasia cross the Dniestr on December 5, 1918.

Do you really think this holds more weight than the DNA? Really? This is obviouisly a lie, since the trip NEVER HAPPENED, and even according to the fictional story, no one knew she was supposed to be AN, so how could this no name person know? AA's escape story was FAKE.

 

[ChatNoir]

And again, all hat and no cattle. You really should have SOMEthing to back up all your stories, not just It Never Happened Because I Say So.
And what is this story with the postcard sent on March 12??'
And I seriously believe that if Berenberg Gossler had a medical report saying that FS was injured in the AEG accident, he would certainly have produced it in court.

 

[Anna was Franziska]

And again, all hat and no cattle. You really should have SOMEthing to back up all your stories, not just It Never Happened Because I Say So.

Chat, remember...the DNA...the DNA...the DNA...

And what is this story with the postcard sent on March 12??'

since you were talking about bear's postings that's what I thought you meant. you don't remember it?

And I seriously believe that if Berenberg Gossler had a medical report saying that FS was injured in the AEG accident, he would certainly have produced it in court.

Maybe he did! Anyway, Massie stated it as fact, and Massie knows his stuff. Don't doubt Massie.

 

[ChatNoir]

Chat, remember...the DNA...the DNA...the DNA...

Oh yes, DNA from Mr. Maucher who cannot produce any proof of his maternal link to the Schanzkowskis.

since you were talking about bear's postings that's what I thought you meant. you don't remember it?

All I remember is a birthday card from Franzisca to Felix, whose birthday was on 2/17. The card arrived almost 14 days late, and FS excused her tardiness with having had too much work.

Maybe he did! Anyway, Massie stated it as fact, and Massie knows his stuff. Don't doubt Massie.

Yes, Massie knows his stuff. He is the one who states in his book that Franzisca disappeared on February 17th, 1918...........................

 

[Anna was Franziska]

Oh yes, DNA from Mr. Maucher who cannot produce any proof of his maternal link to the Schanzkowskis.

Have you ever even asked him?

All I remember is a birthday card from Franzisca to Felix, whose birthday was on 2/17. The card arrived almost 14 days late, and FS excused her tardiness with having had too much work.

Could be the card was late due to the Putch, and the riots that broke out in other parts of the country soon after? Or perhaps the story isn't accurate?
Also, ever consider that she was upset with her brother Felix, and decided to jump on his b-day as a 'political statement?'(Yes this IS just my guess, but an interesting thought)

Yes, Massie knows his stuff. He is the one who states in his book that Franzisca disappeared on February 17th, 1918...........................

That's right, because that's when AA jumped and he accepts AA was FS.

 

[ChatNoir]

Have you ever even asked him?

As you should know by now, his mother's birth certificate has never been produced.

Could be the card was late due to the Putch, and the riots that broke out in other parts of the country soon after? Or perhaps the story isn't accurate?

The Putsch took place in March. The card was received "from 8 to 14 days late", meaning after February 17th.

Also, ever consider that she was upset with her brother Felix, and decided to jump on his b-day as a 'political statement?'(Yes this IS just my guess, but an interesting thought)

Yes, sounds very likely. First she sends him a card more than a week after his birthday, excusing her tardiness, and then she treks all the way from North Berlin in the evening to throw herself from the Bendlerbrücke in Central Berlin.

That's right, because that's when AA jumped and he accepts AA was FS.

Sorry, but the birthday card indicates that FS was alive and well for some time after that. And it was not until "sometimes in March" that Frau Wingender wrote to the Schankowskis to tell them that Franzisca had disappeared. Doris was supposed to produce an "Abmeldung" from March 9th, and that could very well be the date of the disappearance. But she never produced the paper, and the Berlin Police had no records of FS' "move". Only months later was she observed in Danzig by Bruno Grandsitzky, and later three nurses from an asylum in Herrenprotsch near Breslau testified in Hamburg that she had been their patient for 5 years in their asylum, from 1929 to 1934.

 

[Anna was Franziska]

As you should know by now, his mother's birth certificate has never been produced.

And nobody but you and bear finds this an issue. My Aunt Mae doesn't have one, either. Don't you think those who sought out a maternal relative of FS would have made sure?If he wasn't related, why did he match?

The Putsch took place in March. The card was received "from 8 to 14 days late", meaning after February 17th.

We really don't know what day it was mailed and what day it got there, IF it even existed. You hold tightly to something that has never been seen or proven real, for somebody so hung up on such things when it suits you.

Yes, sounds very likely. First she sends him a card more than a week after his birthday, excusing her tardiness, and then she treks all the way from North Berlin in the evening to throw herself from the Bendlerbrücke in Central Berlin.

Again you assume, based on a card whose existence or postmark have never been seen! Who knows how far FS wandered in her depression?

Sorry, but the birthday card indicates that FS was alive and well for some time after that.

Sorry, but since it's never been seen or proven, it indicates nothing.

And it was not until "sometimes in March" that Frau Wingender wrote to the Schankowskis to tell them that Franzisca had disappeared. Doris was supposed to produce an "Abmeldung" from March 9th, and that could very well be the date of the disappearance. But she never produced the paper, and the Berlin Police had no records of FS' "move".

You try very hard to get rid of FS, and very hard to change/twist things around. There was no 'move' because she just plain up and disappeared, and they apparently didn't keep track of her well enough to be sure when or how, and even if she was missing or just off somewhere. Very weak.

Only months later was she observed in Danzig by Bruno Grandsitzky, and later three nurses from an asylum in Herrenprotsch near Breslau testified in Hamburg that she had been their patient for 5 years in their asylum, from 1929 to 1934.

It is quite hilarious how you keep coming up with alleged tidbits by no names. Obviously, these people were mistaken, or lying. I know how desperately you try to 'run that FS story into the ground' but I'm sorry she was AA!

 

[ChatNoir]

And Franzisca's alleged baby? That was, of course, real. Just because you say so.
Everybody else were mistaken. Or lying. Or both.

 

[Menarue]

As long as the baby doesn´t suddenly become miraculously resurrected, everyone thought it was dead, and claim it is the rightful heir to the Imperial Throne and doesn´t get someone to write the true story. The dna doesn´t match, what does that matter the story is good. Quite a bit of cash in that one. In the right hands his story could make as much money as Harry Potter, and with the same realism.

 

[ChatNoir]

From Gleb Botkin's book:

Hence the efforts to prove, take what it may, that Anastasia was Francisca, and the consequent necessity of fabricating spurious evidence in the complete absence of actual facts.
Some of those efforts, however, in spite of their sordidness, bordered on the comical. For instance, Detective Knopf had attempted to persuade the relatives of Francisca, that she had had a child or a miscarriage. But those relatives who until then, had appared willing, for a price, to testify to almost anything, emphatically refused to defame the missing Francisca's character. M. Gilliard then promptly declared that Anastasia had invented the story of having given birth to a son, and that the doctors must always have known it, for why otherwise had she been registered in the Dalldorf asylum as Miss Unknown instead of Mrs. Unknown!

 

[Menarue]

From Gleb Botkin's book:

Hence the efforts to prove, take what it may, that Anastasia was Francisca, and the consequent necessity of fabricating spurious evidence in the complete absence of actual facts.
Some of those efforts, however, in spite of their sordidness, bordered on the comical. For instance, Detective Knopf had attempted to persuade the relatives of Francisca, that she had had a child or a miscarriage. But those relatives who until then, had appared willing, for a price, to testify to almost anything, emphatically refused to defame the missing Francisca's character. M. Gilliard then promptly declared that Anastasia had invented the story of having given birth to a son, and that the doctors must always have known it, for why otherwise had she been registered in the Dalldorf asylum as Miss Unknown instead of Mrs. Unknown!

Who is the Anastasia that Botkin is talking about?

 

[AGRBear]

From Gleb Botkin's book:

Hence the efforts to prove, take what it may, that Anastasia was Francisca, and the consequent necessity of fabricating spurious evidence in the complete absence of actual facts.
Some of those efforts, however, in spite of their sordidness, bordered on the comical. For instance, Detective Knopf had attempted to persuade the relatives of Francisca, that she had had a child or a miscarriage. But those relatives who until then, had appared willing, for a price, to testify to almost anything, emphatically refused to defame the missing Francisca's character. M. Gilliard then promptly declared that Anastasia had invented the story of having given birth to a son, and that the doctors must always have known it, for why otherwise had she been registered in the Dalldorf asylum as Miss Unknown instead of Mrs. Unknown!

Evidently, Gilliard did not know that AA was registered at the hospital and in the early days at Dalldorf as Miss Unknown. It was after the doctors examined her and placed on her medical report that she had given birth to a child that the records scratched out "Miss" and changed her status to "Mrs".