What is your opinion of Frederik and Mary

[princess olga]

I prefer water but thanks anyway...

I simply don't see this 'event' as a sign of justifying the Danish monarchy's worth. That is a function which is carried out at the many engagements the royal representatives attend or host, both in Denmark and abroad.

I do however see it as another example of remaining accessible and constant with the public interest that is shown, and on a more personal level viewing them as a family, not just an institution which I have noted on my travels to this small, but beautiful Kingdom.

..An excercise in public relations, in other words. Nothing wrong with that indeed.
But I do see, I think, your larger point which I think is, this is a family that goes way way back with its people, so there is a relationship between royal family and public where the royals are seen as family, by the public. I think this is what you mean, correct?

 

[soCal girl]

Personally I think there's more of a "fight" over Mary because she debuted into European royalty around the same time as other Crown Princesses did. In a relatively short amount of time (as in a couple years) the Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Spain, and Denmark all got new princesses. Now with intense media coverage and gossip magazines, there are more compliments, criticisms, etc. So naturally people start taking sides and defending their favorite to some extremes that aren't necessary.

 

[princess olga]

You may have a point.



I can't say I've warmed to Mary but I'm intrigued by her public persona. Its not a warm and down to earth persona; its very regal and a bit standoffish. I actually like that in a royal and it doesn't bother me one bit.

Agree she's definitely the regal kind. I'm not even sure I venture more to the so-called "warm and down to earth" royal types either though. Maxima's gregariousness for example, I have to say I sometimes am a bit sceptical of it because to me sometimes it comes across as faked. If I had to pick one approach, I'd also pick regalness I think.
What I like about Maxima is that she really seems to be going out of her way to put her personal touch to the things she does--that and in recent years, for whatever reason she's stepped up to the plate and started to do some work.
Mary seems a concientious person who tries, but for some reason I get the impression that if not her babies (totally understandable), Fred is somehow slowing down her pace! What I'm saying is: Mary seems like the workerbee type, someone who's the opposite of a couch potato. Fred, I don't know. He seems to be taking it a bit easy. i think once her two kids will be fair and square in school, we will likely see a lot more of her, in various capacities.

 

[Aurora810]

Really you think Fred slows down Mary's pace? I'm not sure I understand what you are saying, Princess Olga.

I think that in recent months I would even go so far as to say for most of their marriage. Mary has been working a lot and not always alongside Fred. She does a lot on her own. And I'll admit I have at times been upset with Fred and considered him lazy but then a few weeks ago I thought about things differently. Denmark knows Fred. They've watched him grow up and they've even had plenty of years to watch him as an adult crown prince without a wife. Now however, he has a wife and they need Mary to get to know Denmark as well as Denmark needs to get to know her. So I have been thinking in recent months and when she does things alone and without Fred it is an intentional thing to help showcase Mary to the Danish people. So since I thought of that aspect I have lightened up on Fred not working so much. However, in the months and year or so ahead I think we may see her step back just a little but I'm not sure. I think she is a workerbee and can balance the kids, being a wife, and being a Princess of Denmark.

 

[Madame Royale]

But I do see, I think, your larger point which I think is, this is a family that goes way way back with its people, so there is a relationship between royal family and public where the royals are seen as family, by the public. I think this is what you mean, correct?

Precisely!

 

[ysbel]

Alright after a weak moment last evening I'm back. I wanted to add something about the Grace Kelly point. I also was not even a dream in my parent's minds when Grace came into the Monaco RF. But I can speak for now. Years afterwards I don't think America has closely followed the MRF.

You bring up a good point. American magazines followed the Grimaldis quite extensively in the Seventies when Caroline was blossoming into a beautiful young woman and Grace was still young and attractive enough to grace the covers of McCalls, Lady's Home Journal, etc.

But Grace made it clear she was not raising her children as Americans, she was raising them as Europeans, or as she called it, she raised them to be citizens of the world. Albert went to the university in New England but overall the family is much more continental than American.

I don't have a feeling one way or another on whether Mary intends to raise her children as Danes, as Australians, or (as Grace put it) citizens of the world.

 

[ysbel]

Also Queen Noor is an American and I really never knew of her and her connection to the Jordan RF until I became a member here. Since becoming aware of her I have seen her on Larry King and I was even watching a travel show once that mentioned her. But otherwise in my perception Queen Noor hasn't really captured the attention of Americans. But there could be some other issues as to why she hasn't also.

Maybe getting the Americans attention is hard to get and keep.

I definitely remember hearing a lot about Queen Noor when her husband was alive. If one had any interest in the situation in the Middle East you heard about her a lot. But the Muslim monarchies are much more conservative than the Western monarchies so the glamour wasn't always there.

 

[ysbel]

I think the comparison with Grace Kelly is interesting but somehow a bit in the apples vs oranges here. When Grace married 'into' Monaco, she was on top of the world literally, as a bona fide movie star. Everyone knew who she was already. It would be akin if, say, Nicole Kidman or Jennifer Lopez had landed themselves a European crown prince.

I think Mary is more comparable in more ways than one, to Silvia Sommerlath of Germany. The current queen of Swedes was a cute 'nobody' working at the Munich (I think) olympics when she caught the eye of the young Swedish king. The two quickly became an item.

Mary also met her husband within the Olympic realm, she was also a 'private citizen' with no royal ties whatsoever to speak of, and she was also a presentable, sophisticated brunette with an air of decency about her.

Back to Silvia for a sec, does anyone know if the Germans were particular Silvia-minded in the first early years of her marriage to Carl Gustaf? Did they have and display the equivalent of 'mateship' vis a vis Silvia? I get the impression they <are> very fond of her, but unlike what seems to be the case re. Mary, the Germans re. Silvia seemed to feel and display less, well, pride, of Silvia's origins?

Silvia has a dual heritage; she is German and Brazilian. Quite frankly I've seen her identified with the Brazilian side more than the German side. But she did give an interview where she said her heart was Brazilian but her mind was definitely very German. So regardless of whether the Germans see her as their own; she seems to identify herself as a German as well as a Brazilian.

 

[ysbel]

Agree she's definitely the regal kind. I'm not even sure I venture more to the so-called "warm and down to earth" royal types either though. Maxima's gregariousness for example, I have to say I sometimes am a bit sceptical of it because to me sometimes it comes across as faked. If I had to pick one approach, I'd also pick regalness I think.

Well I tend to pick royals that I think I would feel comfortable with if I had to stand alone with them in a reception line and Maxima, while oh-so-charming, is so vivacious, she'd have me climbing up the walls if it was just her and me for more than a couple of minutes. She's the perfect girl for Willem-Alexander and the perfect daughter-in-law for Beatrix but I think after a couple of minutes I'd have to get some of my high-energy relatives to entertain her.

Mary being a bit more standoffish would be charming and pleasant but definitely a person who would not cross into your space. My grandmother used to say, "She stays on her side of the fence." That quality trait cannot be overrated.

 

[Aurora810]

Mary being a bit more standoffish would be charming and pleasant but definitely a person who would not cross into your space. My grandmother used to say, "She stays on her side of the fence." That quality trait cannot be overrated.

Sorry, forgive my ignorance. But I'm not understanding this phrase. What does it mean exactly? Does it mean she would be good at small talk but that she would be very respectful and not ask too many personal questions. I'm confused, sorry!

 

[ysbel]

Sorry, forgive my ignorance. But I'm not understanding this phrase. What does it mean exactly? Does it mean she would be good at small talk but that she would be very respectful and not ask too many personal questions. I'm confused, sorry!

In a way yes, Mary, I think would be charming and nice but never let the conversation get too embarassing or personal.

However, that is not only what my grandmother meant, when she said this she was referring to a person who was very observant of others and generally didn't physically come to close to your space or give you any reason to be startled by what they did. They didn't yell unexpectedly or make quick big movements while sitting beside you. Its hard to explain.

Some people come right up at you almost in your face; others hang back a bit. Mary appears that she hangs back a bit and that can be very welcome and needed sometimes.

 

[Aurora810]

In a way yes, Mary, I think would be charming and nice but never let the conversation get too embarassing or personal.

However, that is not only what my grandmother meant, when she said this she was referring to a person who was very observant of others and generally didn't physically come to close to your space or give you any reason to be startled by what they did. They didn't yell unexpectedly or make quick big movements while sitting beside you. Its hard to explain.

Some people come right up at you almost in your face; others hang back a bit. Mary appears that she hangs back a bit and that can be very welcome and needed sometimes.

Alright, thanks ysbel. So I guess I was on the right track with what I thought. And I agree with your assessment of Mary in this regard.

 

[tabbitha]

I can't see Christian being terribly affected by the photograph in years to come.

I can't either - if he is upset then he has REAL issues . I somehow think being KING will be of a greater worry than cake on your face- bless him.... let him have fun now....

 

[msleiman]

I don't think that Christian will be affected by the photo! As far as I know most children at one year old have the same photo. I have one of myself ,with my first birthday cake. All three of my children have the same type of photo. Mary is doing the same a MOST mothers, she is just being called out for it. There is nothing wrong with it!!!!

 

[ysbel]

I don't think that Christian will be affected by the photo! As far as I know most children at one year old have the same photo. I have one of myself ,with my first birthday cake. All three of my children have the same type of photo. Mary is doing the same a MOST mothers, she is just being called out for it. There is nothing wrong with it!!!!

Yes but do most mothers prominently display these silly photos at their work where their boss, their boss' boss, colleagues, and clients can see? I havent' seen this many pictures like this at work where colleagues prominently post pictures of their children. Its always the nice outfit taken by a photographer at the department store or maybe a picture of the kids on a beach on vacation but I haven't seen too many silly pictures of kids at work. In a conservative professional situation, I think parents want to show off their children in their best light. Privately among friends, parents may want to show the silly face of their child but not in a professional environment.

When royals publish photos, its part of their professional work and profile. How many government photo releases from a head of state have included a picture of a child with birthday cake smeared over his face? Its seems too undignified for a department of the government.

 

[UserDane]

Yes but do most mothers prominently display these silly photos at their work where their boss, their boss' boss, colleagues, and clients can see? I havent' seen this many pictures like this at work where colleagues prominently post pictures of their children. Its always the nice outfit taken by a photographer at the department store or maybe a picture of the kids on a beach on vacation but I haven't seen too many silly pictures of kids at work. In a conservative professional situation, I think parents want to show off their children in their best light.

Well, years ago I worked at IBM here ind Denmark - and I had a picture of my then 3 year old daughter who on a hot summer's day had discarded all her clothes and thrown herself on a couple of pillows out in the garden, her hair a total mess, wearing her new sunglasses, a toy water pistol and a big grin. It was - is - a gorgeous picture and I received so many compliments for it - because it just oozed happiness. And that was the way I liked to show off my daughter.
I think it is inherently difficult to make silly pictures of children - but then again I don't really care much for 'posed' pictures of children, I must admit.

 

[Lizy]

When royals publish photos, its part of their professional work and profile. How many government photo releases from a head of state have included a picture of a child with birthday cake smeared over his face? Its seems too undignified for a department of the government.

Mary can't win! She's accused of being formal, icy, regal etc and then gets criticised when photos, showing fun and enjoyment are released.I really don't think that the photos are undignified. They provide a snapshot into their family life and show that prince Christian is a typical, messy, little toddler.
I also wasn't aware that the royal family were a government department.

 

[Aurora810]

My 2 cents about the cake issue

Sometimes when I look at this family I see obviously the very "regal/royal" side and other times I see the "silly, lets allow our child to be a child" side. That being said I think(but I don't know for sure) that the Queen is more traditional and likes things that way, likes things more "regal". But yet we have 2 thirty-something parents one of which was a commoner and probably sees things differently and the other that was raised royal but that doesn't want to see his child raised too incredibly "royal" and in too strict of a manner. I think Fred and Mary have a little bit of a fun side to them and a more easygoing/light approach when it comes to their kid(soon kids).

That being said I think that there are times when Fred and Mary see it as important to show that they and Christian are typical. That despite being royals they still do things in a similar way that others do things. But at the same time they both understand that there is a high standard in an RF and therefore they also are able to showcase a more "dignified" (for lack of a better word) way of showing Christian. An example of that would be his daycare appearance, that was not silly Christian. He looked so grown up to me like a little mini-man.

I certainly see both sides of this cake issue. But all I'm saying is that Fred and Mary I think want us(the public) to see them as not so strict and regal all the time. I think they want a little bit of a balance between the 2 sides. Unfortunately there is no way for them to please everyone. So will be attracted to the balance of the 2 sides and others want their royals to always display a higher standard. Just my opinion.

 

[ldt20]

Aurora810, I agree with what you are saying and would like to add my two cents to the "Fred-is-lazy-doesn't-work-as-much-as-Mary" topic.

I think people forget that Frederick one day will become King. While many of his duties are to go out and be present in official engagements, etc. he also has other duties that for example Mary will never have. While Queen Margrethe has been recovering from her surgeries, Frederick has been the one taking many of her duties which in many occassion are not photographed, so we can't see Frederick performing them.

Really you think Fred slows down Mary's pace? I'm not sure I understand what you are saying, Princess Olga.

I think that in recent months I would even go so far as to say for most of their marriage. Mary has been working a lot and not always alongside Fred. She does a lot on her own. And I'll admit I have at times been upset with Fred and considered him lazy but then a few weeks ago I thought about things differently. Denmark knows Fred. They've watched him grow up and they've even had plenty of years to watch him as an adult crown prince without a wife. Now however, he has a wife and they need Mary to get to know Denmark as well as Denmark needs to get to know her. So I have been thinking in recent months and when she does things alone and without Fred it is an intentional thing to help showcase Mary to the Danish people. So since I thought of that aspect I have lightened up on Fred not working so much. However, in the months and year or so ahead I think we may see her step back just a little but I'm not sure. I think she is a workerbee and can balance the kids, being a wife, and being a Princess of Denmark.

 

[Smilla]

Yes but do most mothers prominently display these silly photos at their work where their boss, their boss' boss, colleagues, and clients can see? I havent' seen this many pictures like this at work where colleagues prominently post pictures of their children. Its always the nice outfit taken by a photographer at the department store or maybe a picture of the kids on a beach on vacation but I haven't seen too many silly pictures of kids at work. In a conservative professional situation, I think parents want to show off their children in their best light. Privately among friends, parents may want to show the silly face of their child but not in a professional environment.

When royals publish photos, its part of their professional work and profile. How many government photo releases from a head of state have included a picture of a child with birthday cake smeared over his face? Its seems too undignified for a department of the government.

Oh, isn't it hypocritical to pretend that one's child must be a little angel, well-dressed and immaculate at all times, just because one has a diginfied position to live up to? Can a picture of a child with a chocolate-y face really hurt you in a "conservative professional situation"? Will your boss be naive enough to judge your performance based on that picture of your child doing what children often - and normally - do (getting chocolate in their faces)? Hopefully not!
Why not show Christian doing "real-life" stuff? Nobody will think the worse of the DRF for that, I hope!

 

[Henri M.]

My 2 cents about the cake issue

Sometimes when I look at this family I see obviously the very "regal/royal" side and other times I see the "silly, lets allow our child to be a child" side. That being said I think(but I don't know for sure) that the Queen is more traditional and likes things that way, likes things more "regal". But yet we have 2 thirty-something parents one of which was a commoner and probably sees things differently and the other that was raised royal but that doesn't want to see his child raised too incredibly "royal" and in too strict of a manner. I think Fred and Mary have a little bit of a fun side to them and a more easygoing/light approach when it comes to their kid(soon kids).

That being said I think that there are times when Fred and Mary see it as important to show that they and Christian are typical. That despite being royals they still do things in a similar way that others do things. But at the same time they both understand that there is a high standard in an RF and therefore they also are able to showcase a more "dignified" (for lack of a better word) way of showing Christian. An example of that would be his daycare appearance, that was not silly Christian. He looked so grown up to me like a little mini-man.

I certainly see both sides of this cake issue. But all I'm saying is that Fred and Mary I think want us(the public) to see them as not so strict and regal all the time. I think they want a little bit of a balance between the 2 sides. Unfortunately there is no way for them to please everyone. So will be attracted to the balance of the 2 sides and others want their royals to always display a higher standard. Just my opinion.

But there is not that much difference with other royal parents, like the Oranges or the Asturias, isn't it? Maybe the one House (the Oranges) do the presentation, registration and baptism with some more traditional decorum, but in essence also they want to give their children a youth as normal as possible.

 

[Mandy]

This thread was created to give members an opportunity to present their views and opinions of CP Frederik and CP Mary and to keep these discussions out of the current events threads, however, it has now gone completely off track... the entire DRF is being discussed ... some members are challenged because of their nationality... just to name a few off-topic discussions.

As a result, this thread is now closed, but it doesn't mean that these topics can now find their way into the current events threads. All off-topic posts in the current events threads will be subject to deletion.

Danish Forum Moderators