Christian, Isabella, Vincent and Josephine, News Part 4: June 2023 - October 2023

[iceflower]

* *

Welcome to Part 4 of the thread for News about Prince Christian, Princess Isabella, Prince Vincent and Princess Josephine!

You can find the old thread here:

** Christian, Isabella, Vincent and Josephine, News Part 3: November 2015 - June 2023
**

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[Archduchess Zelia]

Big day today for the family as Isabella officially finishes 9th grade – and with that, her primary education. IIRC they didn't publish any pictures of Christian's "translocation" as the little ceremony is called in Danish but a big day nonetheless!

 

[doro]

A short thread for Christian until his 18th bday!

 

[CrownPrincessJava]

A short thread for Christian until his 18th bday!

Christian will be part of this thread until he becomes Crown Prince of Denmark and an adult

Is Christian about to commence his last year of schooling?

 

[doro]

Christian will be part of this thread until he becomes Crown Prince of Denmark and an adult

Is Christian about to commence his last year of schooling?

When begins his school vacations?

 

[CrownPrincessJava]

When begins his school vacations?

I think they've started - according to Google, they officially start 26th June and they go back 4th August. But as Archduchess Zelia posted earlier, Isabella has already finished, so Christian must have too

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Is Christian about to commence his last year of schooling?

Indeed! Or, his last year of secondary schooling that is. Starting Year 3 on 10 August.

When begins his school vacations?

Christian is off already and, I suspect, has been for a while. For students in Year 1 and 2 of the gymnasium, your vacation starts when your last exam or test has finished.

He had his last day of actual school on 26 May followed by periods of time to study for first written exams and then oral exams (called læseferie in Danish, which roughly translates to "reading vacation" ). Once the final exam is done and dusted, you're "free" for the (school) year.

Only leavers (like Isabella this year but on the primary level) celebrate with a ceremony at the end – and for leavers of the gymnasium, more importantly: graduation caps and "vogntur". But a lot more about than next year when it's Christian's turn

 

[Blog Real]

Press release: The Royal House announces the appanage of Prince Christian

His Royal Highness Prince Christian turns 18 years old on 15 October 2023.

Prince Christian’s main priority in the coming year will be the completion of the Prince’s gymnasial education. As a consequence, The Royal House of Denmark will provide information about the further progress of Prince Christian’s education when the time is right. There is thus an agreement with The Prime Minister’s Office that support in the Danish Parliament for a law concerning an annuity will first be sought when the Prince turns 21 or upon a possible throne succession, if that takes place beforehand.

Only after this time will it be expected that His Royal Highness will enter into official contexts to a greater extent. However, that depends on where the Prince is at that point in his education. Until then, Prince Christian will participate in official contexts to a limited extent, similar to now.

https://www.kongehuset.dk/nyheder/prins-christians-aarpenge-1

 

[Muhler]

To be expected because there has been some debate as to whether Christian should get his full apanage while he serves in the military and/or attends university.

I'm not sure it's such a good idea to basically cave in, because when is he a fully serving royal?
When he turns eighteen?
When his basic training, followed by NCO school and graduating as first lieutenant has been completed?
When he has completed a number of basic courses at a university? Perhaps getting a bachelor?
When he is promoted to major/commander?
When he marries?

You see what I mean? You can at any point for the next ten years say that he is not fully available as a working DRF member and as such should not get a full apanage.

 

[Mbruno]

To be expected because there has been some debate as to whether Christian should get his full apanage while he serves in the military and/or attends university.

I'm not sure it's such a good idea to basically cave in, because when is he a fully serving royal?
When he turns eighteen?
When his basic training, followed by NCO school and graduating as first lieutenant has been completed?
When he has completed a number of basic courses at a university? Perhaps getting a bachelor?
When he is promoted to major/commander?
When he marries?

You see what I mean? You can at any point for the next ten years say that he is not fully available as a working DRF member and as such should not get a full apanage.

Since it was decided that he will receive the apanage from age 21, I assume that is the lower threshold after which he is supposed to be available for royal duty , even if part-time only..

Interestingly, if Frederik becomes King before Christian turns 21, then his apanage will be anticipated if I understood it correctly.

 

[Muhler]

Yeah, but you can rest assured that another public debate will come up when he is 20, should he get the apanage when he is 21? How about when he is 25?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I don't understand why it is foreseen that an allowance would be sought for Christian if there were to be a change in reign before his 21st birthday. Even as an 18 to 20-year-old Crown Prince, wouldn't he continue concentrating on his education until completing university?

 

[Izzie]

The issue will be when Christian is reaching mid 30s and still not the heir...will he still not be a full time "working royal" (I hate that term). I think this is a mistake and is delaying Christian becoming more comfortable with doing engagements, etc. I also read that then at 18 he is not becoming a member of the council of state like his father? Does that mean he cannot serve as rigforstander (even if they'd want to appoint him). I think Christian is already behind other royals of his age as the second to the throne. Again, maybe it is just assumed that he won't become heir until his mid 30s anyway so why get ahead of themselves. Unless it gets to the point where the stirrings start of skipping over Frederik to Christian if people start to consider Frederik is past his prime. I guess they'd have to figure out appanage at that time.

 

[polyesco]

Nice to receive more information. Look forward to more information as his 18th birthday gets closer.
I don't see how he is behind since he is still in his secondary education not University level yet.
So far he has been involved in events without his siblings and either one parent. Great start.
Exciting to see the new generation of royals.

 

[Izzie]

To be expected because there has been some debate as to whether Christian should get his full apanage while he serves in the military and/or attends university.

I'm not sure it's such a good idea to basically cave in, because when is he a fully serving royal?
When he turns eighteen?
When his basic training, followed by NCO school and graduating as first lieutenant has been completed?
When he has completed a number of basic courses at a university? Perhaps getting a bachelor?
When he is promoted to major/commander?
When he marries?

You see what I mean? You can at any point for the next ten years say that he is not fully available as a working DRF member and as such should not get a full apanage.

They'll just keep moving the goal posts. And who knows when he will even become Crown Prince (It could be 15 to 20 years). By that time, there might be the rumblings of the throne should just skip Frederik and go to Christian. Is that then when he will get the apanage? Will there be complaints if he's 22 and not doing royal engagements? They cannot have it both ways. Want him to be a more involved in royal duties but yet not receive apanage (if he is let's in his 30s and still not the Crown Prince). Hope they have not created a slippery slope. It is different with Amalia and Elisabeth because they are already the 1st in line to the throne and they won't have to wait unknown decades to ascend.

I actually was hoping once he turned 18 he would be more visible in the sense of doing a bit more royal engagements to give him more practice. I wonder then if he will have a full celebration for his 18th like his father did.

 

[Stefan]

They'll just keep moving the goal posts. And who knows when he will even become Crown Prince (It could be 15 to 20 years). By that time, there might be the rumblings of the throne should just skip Frederik and go to Christian. Is that then when he will get the apanage?

15-20 years seem to me pretty unlikely given that Margrethe is now 83.
That would mean she would be 98 in 15 years.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

It is different with Amalia and Elisabeth because they are already the 1st in line to the throne and they won't have to wait unknown decades to ascend.

Unless you meant "ascend as crown princess" rather than "ascend as queen", the dates of the Dutch and Belgian kings' future abdications/deaths are also unknown, at least to the public.

 

[ricarda]

I don't understand why it is foreseen that an allowance would be sought for Christian if there were to be a change in reign before his 21st birthday. Even as an 18 to 20-year-old Crown Prince, wouldn't he continue concentrating on his education until completing university?

But isn't his education already part of his royal duties? I mean he isn't free in his choices.
If the Danes want a hereditary monarchy they have to pay for it. Secretly I am hoping Christian will tell the Danes to look for another costfree heir because he wants to be free to go his own way.

How are things handled in Norway? The situation there is comparable to Dk.

 

[Izzie]

15-20 years seem to me pretty unlikely given that Margrethe is now 83.
That would mean she would be 98 in 15 years.

Well - I would not be shocked if she holds on till then. She did say she would stay on the throne until she fell off of it. Look at QEII. And Charles didn't take over until he is what 76? His heir is now 40.

Frederik could be Charles the sequel at this rate. Meaning Christian would not become Crown Prince until his mid 30s. So if they keep moving the goal posts he could possibly not receive any appanage until then.

 

[Somebody]

Since it was decided that he will receive the apanage from age 21, I assume that is the lower threshold after which he is supposed to be available for royal duty , even if part-time only..

Interestingly, if Frederik becomes King before Christian turns 21, then his apanage will be anticipated if I understood it correctly.

The latter makes sense. He is now only second in line, and they might have different expectations if he becomes first in line. So, to at least evaluate if he should receive an apanage seems a wise decision. In both Belgium and the Netherlands, they ended up deciding to postpone, however, each country needs to make their own assessment.

The issue will be when Christian is reaching mid 30s and still not the heir...will he still not be a full time "working royal" (I hate that term). I think this is a mistake and is delaying Christian becoming more comfortable with doing engagements, etc. I also read that then at 18 he is not becoming a member of the council of state like his father? Does that mean he cannot serve as rigforstander (even if they'd want to appoint him). I think Christian is already behind other royals of his age as the second to the throne. Again, maybe it is just assumed that he won't become heir until his mid 30s anyway so why get ahead of themselves. Unless it gets to the point where the stirrings start of skipping over Frederik to Christian if people start to consider Frederik is past his prime. I guess they'd have to figure out appanage at that time.

Interesting question; are his mother, uncle and great-aunt members of the council of state? If not, I don't see why Christian cannot become one. His position is very different from his father's; as his father was the immediate heir when turning 18, while Christian is still only the heir's heir.

Which royals are you thinking off? Others in his position in Europe are:
- Princess Ingrid-Alexandra of Norway, who turned 18 1 1/2 years ago, and hasn't been much more active. The main difference seems to be that she had a huge party with international guests and did some military visits.
- Prince Joseph Wenzel of Liechtenstein; he is almost invisible, while in practice he is first in line to be the acting head.
- Princess Estelle of Sweden; not yet his age, but much more active than others in her position from a very young age. So, not representative imho.
- Prince George of the UK; even younger, and definitely less active and visible than Christian (and rightly so).
- Prince Charles of Luxembourg; the youngest, and for some reason like Estelle being taken to lots of royal events.

Well - I would not be shocked if she holds on till then. She did say she would stay on the throne until she fell off of it. Look at QEII. And Charles didn't take over until he is what 76? His heir is now 40.

Frederik could be Charles the sequel at this rate. Meaning Christian would not become Crown Prince until his mid 30s. So if they keep moving the goal posts he could possibly not receive any appanage until then.

Right now, they moved the goal post to 21. The only reason they brought up the option to adapt it in case of a change or reign, is so he might be given it earlier...

 

[Izzie]

Unless you meant "ascend as crown princess" rather than "ascend as queen", the dates of the Dutch and Belgian kings' future abdications/deaths are also unknown, at least to the public.

Meaning Christian is one more step removed from becoming King than Amalia and Elisabeth are at becoming Queen since they are currently the heir and not the heir of the heir. Christian has to wait to become Crown Prince and who knows when that will be.

 

[Muhler]

But isn't his education already part of his royal duties? I mean he isn't free in his choices.
If the Danes want a hereditary monarchy they have to pay for it. Secretly I am hoping Christian will tell the Danes to look for another costfree heir because he wants to be free to go his own way.

How are things handled in Norway? The situation there is comparable to Dk.

Can't say I would blame him.

I do believe Christian's education is a part of his duties, it's certainly a mandatory part of his training. He can hardly seek an apprenticeship as a plumber. (Great pay and lots of jobs BTW!)
In fact in contrast to practically every other young Dane getting an education from high school/technical school/apprenticeship and up, either gets a salary or a subsidy from the state for even getting an education, Christian no doubt gets - nothing. And if he should dare claim the subsidy there would be a public howl!
In fact Christian could with every justification say: "No pay, no show" for the next three years.
Why should he work for free? There is no public demand for anyone else to work for free. In fact apart from a certain tabloid that starts with B and and ends with T, it's hardly the thing people are talking about on the streets at least not around where I am. So I wonder how large this public expectation is.

Anyway, Christian can basically allow himself to go under the radar for the next three years and that would be a mistake IMO. Because he needs practice. He needs to accompany his parents on visits abroad. He needs to attend various events here in DK, and he needs to go abroad solo himself. preferably already this year. He needs to be Rigsforstander once in a while.
That's part of his education too.

But, should Christian really do a no show, the very same people who believe he should not get his apanage now, will complain that he is lazy and not taking his responsibilities seriously.

And that is the main reason why I think it's a mistake to cave in to a (not particularly serious) public demand.

Oh, and BTW, Christian is not the Heir, so he need not be a member of the State Council. He will however head meetings of the State Council if he is acting as Rigsforstander and a meeting for whatever reason is required.

 

[Izzie]

Can't say I would blame him.

I do believe Christian's education is a part of his duties, it's certainly a mandatory part of his training. He can hardly seek an apprenticeship as a plumber. (Great pay and lots of jobs BTW!)
In fact in contrast to practically every other young Dane getting an education from high school/technical school/apprenticeship and up, either gets a salary or a subsidy from the state for even getting an education, Christian no doubt gets - nothing. And if he should dare claim the subsidy there would be a public howl!
In fact Christian could with every justification say: "No pay, no show" for the next three years.
Why should he work for free? There is no public demand for anyone else to work for free. In fact apart from a certain tabloid that starts with B and and ends with T, it's hardly the thing people are talking about on the streets at least not around where I am. So I wonder how large this public expectation is.

Anyway, Christian can basically allow himself to go under the radar for the next three years and that would be a mistake IMO. Because he needs practice. He needs to accompany his parents on visits abroad. He needs to attend various events here in DK, and he needs to go abroad solo himself. preferably already this year. He needs to be Rigsforstander once in a while.
That's part of his education too.

But, should Christian really do a no show, the very same people who believe he should not get his apanage now, will complain that he is lazy and not taking his responsibilities seriously.

And that is the main reason why I think it's a mistake to cave in to a (not particularly serious) public demand.

Oh, and BTW, Christian is not the Heir, so he need not be a member of the State Council. He will however head meetings of the State Council if he is acting as Rigsforstander and a meeting for whatever reason is required.

IMO, he should have been more visible starting this summer. IMO, they should have done a summer cruise as the Crown Prince Family. IMO, he should start accompanying his parents on certain engagements (Isabella too for that matter). IMO, he should start giving short speeches here and there.

If he goes MIA for 3 years, better need to have several seats and not complain about it. Because Christian now has every right to say....see ya later!

Maybe they think he has 10-20 years to learn all this stuff before he become the Crown Prince so what's a few more years to hang out. Hopefully he won't fall too behind the other royals his age in the same position. Look at Ingrid Alexandra...she seems way more ready...but then again the Norwegian Royal family seem to operate a little differently (just look at how King Harald is more open to sharing duties openly and including Haakon in way more things on an official (as in included in the calendar) level/capacity.

Heck - Estell in Sweden has already seemingly been more involved in some engagements.

Maybe there is fear that if Christian starts being more visible and doing engagements he will rise in popularity in those polls BT likes to do. One just came out with once again Frederik and Mary in the 1 and 2 spot. If Christian began being more visible and doing engagements maybe he would fall right behind his parents on those polls. Can't have the optics of that. Just thinking out loud.

 

[Somebody]

IMO, he should have been more visible starting this summer. IMO, they should have done a summer cruise as the Crown Prince Family. IMO, he should start accompanying his parents on certain engagements (Isabella too for that matter). IMO, he should start giving short speeches here and there.

If he goes MIA for 3 years, better need to have several seats and not complain about it. Because Christian now has every right to say....see ya later!

Christian has been attending several events over the years, including more recently those that only he as the future king attended and not his siblings. And in addition, this summer is only just starting. Over the years they've done many trips to various parts of the kingdom of Denmark (for example to Greenland and the Faroe Islands). This year they are less flexible as the queen's condition is more unsecure, so Frederik has to be more available to stand in for his mother. In addition, the summer is only starting. According to this overview, the school holiday only started today(!), so being concerned that he hasn't done enough yet this summer, while he should have been focusing on school up until a few days ago, seems a stretch.

Moreover, I don't believe he will completely disappear the next 3 years. My reading of it, is that we should not expect a huge increase in royal duties - but he will continue to undertake a limited amount of them.

Maybe they think he has 10-20 years to learn all this stuff before he become the Crown Prince so what's a few more years to hang out. Hopefully he won't fall too behind the other royals his age in the same position. Look at Ingrid Alexandra...she seems way more ready...but then again the Norwegian Royal family seem to operate a little differently (just look at how King Harald is more open to sharing duties openly and including Haakon in way more things on an official (as in included in the calendar) level/capacity.

Can you provide specific examples, as I don't recognize this at all. Both Haakon and Frederik step in when their monarch-parent is not able to fulfill their duties. Unfortunately, that has been quite often for king Harald in Norway. In Denmark, it was mostly limited to the queen being abroad and more recently due to her operation. (...)[/QUOTE]

As I said before, Ingrid-Alexandra hasn't done that much more; and she has been 18 for almost 1 1/2 years, while Christian will only turn 18 in October... Anytime we see Christian in public, he seems very well behaved, professional, interested, caring to his siblings, etc. So, all of that seems like a very good basis for his future role.

I don't recall him speeching yet but I wouldn't expect that from a minor - and that will surely come one day as well.

 

[Mbruno]

Meaning Christian is one more step removed from becoming King than Amalia and Elisabeth are at becoming Queen since they are currently the heir and not the heir of the heir. Christian has to wait to become Crown Prince and who knows when that will be.

I don't think Christian is "behind" in any sense. Prince William was in the same position as Christian, i.e., second in line, and, if I recall it correctly, he didn't become a full-time royal until he was in his mid-30s. That doesn't seem to have affected his future performance as Prince of Wales and the current heir apparent.

Nevertheless, if you want to stick only with people in the same age range/ same generation as Christian, it is worth noting that Ingrid Alexandra of Norway is also in a similar position as he is.

 

[Somebody]

I don't think Christian is "behind" in any sense. Prince William was in the same position as Christian, i.e., second in line, and, if I recall it correctly, he didn't become a full-time royal until he was in his mid-30s. That doesn't seem to have affected his future performance as Prince of Wales and the current heir apparent.

Nevertheless, if you want to stick only with people in the same age range/ same generation as Christian, it is worth noting that Ingrid Alexandra of Norway is also in a similar position as he is.

Christian is not even 18... So, it's quite a step to assume that he will only become a full-time royal when in his 30s (I know you are not necessarily implying that but just acknowledging that even if that was the case, it wouldn't be problematic). That's twice his current lifetime, there is much in between. Nowadays, no royal unless absolutely necessary start a full royal agenda at the age of 18. The focus is on providing a good basis/education, for some (including Christian) that includes military training, for others, it is university (or a combination of the two).

 

[Izzie]

Since I am allegedly being overly-dramatic in my opinions, I'm out. I'm going back to lurking. Where points are not missed and words misconstrued. I know I am in the minority in quite a few POVs so I should have stuck to keeping my thoughts to myself.

 

[doro]

We're hoping for Daisy holding a banquet on honour of her grandson's 18th birthday!!

 

[Queen Claude]

I think that Christian has been exposed to royal duties throughout his life, and if anything, I have thought that not just Christian, but also his siblings, have been doing some measure royal duties and that may send mixed and unclear messages about the expectations of them in the future.

Christian and his siblings have undertaken tours of Greenland and the Faroe Islands. For these tours, the Crown Prince Family do photo ops and attend multiple events dressed in traditional costumes, I don't recall any of Christian's counterparts having this experience.

It may not seem like much but Christian has attended events where he fielded questions from the media, I think that is a very important training for his role and consider it as significant as making a speech, and he has done this multiple times. Again, this is not just Christian, at Isabella's confirmation, Frederik and Mary walked away and left Isabella to answer questions from reporters on her own.

I do think that the DRF are fortunate in that they do not have an adversarial relations with the Danish media and as a result have been able to be visible to the public in ways that are not highly controlled.

Now I will state that it has been some time since the Crown Prince Family has done a tour, I suspect that Covid may have played a part in that, and nowadays Frederik seems to be staying close to home to be available to step in for his mother. I don't know if this is temporary thing or a change. Nevertheless, if a Crown Prince Family tour is not in the offing, I can see some value in trying to come up with one or two events in Denmark, Greenland or the Faroe Islands for Christian to undertake solo, or for him to accompany or be accompanied by one of his parents, or even his grandmother.

 

[Annine]

In Norway it is the King and Queen and the Crown Prince couple who has an appanage. And Princess Astrid has a honorary pension from the state. There has been no own appanage for Princess Ingrid Alexandra, and no talk about it either. Her aid-de-camp is payed for by the military where he has a normal job as well.

When Ingrid Alexandra gave her speech at the confirmation (and it was not her first) a danish royal "expert" said on television that this would not happen before Christian is 18, as it is not a tradition in the danish royal family to do that before they are 18.

Every royal family functions differently and they also have different personalities. We have seen Estelle at a galadinner when only 11? years old, and at a state visit welcomming also. Not even Princess Elisabeth who was only a litle girl when giving her first speech, and also quite young when going abroad with her mother to Africa? has attended state visits yet, not even from the neighbours last week.

I´m sure when Christian turns 18 we will get both an interview, and lots of official photos, both gala and causal. The danish court do more of that than any other royal family where it can go ten years between new gala photos. We have yet to have one formal gala photo of William and Catherine... Certainly a gala dinner as well. Queen Margrethe will not be out-blinged by any other courts when it comes to such things.