Princess Anne and Family General Information and Questions

[Denville]

They are most certainly in line for the throne.

Peter is currently 13th, his children 14th and 15th, Zara 16th and Mia 17th.

In all likelihood they won't be monarchs but they are certainly in the line of succession.

Yes I would have thought it was clear that I meant they aren't very likely to ever inherit..

Interesting, Andrew was 4th in line behind Charles, and his 4 and 2 year old nephews when made Duke. Edward was 7th behind Charles, his 17 and 15 year old nephews, Andrew and his 11 and 8 year old nieces when made earl. Proximity to throne has nothting to do with it. Zara and Peter are not working royals so there was no need. York girls, unless they are made working royals, wont either.

They are not Princes or Princesses, sons of the Monarch are usually given a title on marriage.. but not the children of a daughter..or daughters of the monarch. The York girls are princesses but they wont get titles either on marriage...

It does work like that sometimes when people do something to merit it as in the case of Baroness Thatcher(although that was a life peerage). Her husband was made a baronet which is a hereditary title and their son has succeeded to that title. Former prime minister Harold Macmillan was made an earl by the present queen. And the actor Laurence Olivier was made a Baron although this was, as in Margaret Thatcher's case, a life peerage.

Lots of people get peerages for special reasons, such as Politicans and many artists. But they are usually now life peerages. Diana's brother In law, Robert Fellows got a life peerage a few years ago for services to the Crown. It is possible albeit unlikely that Zara or Peter P might get such a peerage but it would be for something of their own efforts, not just because they are related to the queen.

 

[Lumutqueen]

It does work like that sometimes when people do something to merit it as in the case of Baroness Thatcher(although that was a life peerage). Her husband was made a baronet which is a hereditary title and their son has succeeded to that title. Former prime minister Harold Macmillan was made an earl by the present queen. And the actor Laurence Olivier was made a Baron although this was, as in Margaret Thatcher's case, a life peerage.

They all received their peerage "granted" by The Queen but chosen by Parliament for serving their Public Office. LO was given his Uncle's Baronetcy who was governor of Jamaica (the Baronetcy became extant as Sydney Olivier only had daughters).

Lots of people get peerages for special reasons, such as Politicans and many artists. But they are usually now life peerages. Diana's brother In law, Robert Fellows got a life peerage a few years ago for services to the Crown. It is possible albeit unlikely that Zara or Peter P might get such a peerage but it would be for something of their own efforts, not just because they are related to the queen.

Since 2010 no artist has been given a life peerage, they are primarily for politicians.

Robert Fellowes was Private Secretary to The Queen for nine years. He'd been in the royal household since 1977. He also has a significant impact on several charitable causes being company director, and a trustee of the Rhodes Trust, the Mandela Rhodes Foundation and the Winston Churchill Memorial Trust.

In all honesty Zara and Peter have done barely anything to deserve anything other than the awards they have already received. Neither of them are significant in any field to warrant anything more than an MBE/CBE/OBE.

 

[Denville]

well perhaps time to get rid of honours for politicans (bit of an oxymoron). I don't think that Z or Peter will get peerages, as I said, but I said it was possible.. and if so, they would get them on their onw merits, not because they were related to the queen... which Is what would have been the case Had Mark Philips accepted a title

 

[Rosena6]

How does not having a title help Zara?

I can understand that being a Princess would mean she officially represents the royal family, but how would having a title like Lady stop Zara from doing what she does now? She said that she was able to have her career as she wasn't Lady Zara or something like that.
I've been reading about other members of the nobility working in business and sporting roles. Being lord/earl didn't stop them, so how would a title stop Zara?
Is it because a title like Earl/Lady given by the Monarch is different from one inherited by aristocrats?

 

[CyrilVladisla]

It seems that a title like Lady Zara would not prevent Zara from what she is doing now. She would still be an equestrian. In some instances she might be more identified because of her title of Lady. However, have not people recalled that she is the daughter of a Princess, the daughter of The Princess Anne, or the daughter of The Princess Royal?

 

[Somebody]

Had Mark been made an earl with a barony or viscountcy (is that the right word?) As a secondary title, the main difference would be for Peter. Instean of 'Peter Phillips' he would have been Baron/Viscount X and at some point Earl Y. I agree that for Zara being a lady would not really have made a difference.

 

[Rosena6]

Had Mark been made an earl with a barony or viscountcy (is that the right word?) As a secondary title, the main difference would be for Peter. Instean of 'Peter Phillips' he would have been Baron/Viscount X and at some point Earl Y. I agree that for Zara being a lady would not really have made a difference.

But would that have stopped him from having a career?
It seems there are many aristocrats taking advantage of commercial opportunities, so what would have stopped Peter?

 

[Rosena6]

Did the Queen really offer to make them Prince and Princess?
Or was it a courtesy title on offer if their father had a title?

They keep talking about how they are grateful to not have a title as it would have stopped them from doing what they do now, but I can think of a prominent nobleman who was a racing car driver and had sponsos (Henry, Earl of Arundel and future Duke of Norfolk https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/29206/Arundel-out-to-be-king-of-the-castle). If he could have pursued sports, I don't really get what would have stopped her.

 

[Rudolph]

Different people have different views on it. I know the son of a hereditary peer who stopped using his courtesy title years ago.

He says it changes how people view him and the snobs who want to be around him just because of a title.

Zara is probably glad she has no title as she seems like a no nonsense kind of person.

 

[Rosena6]

Different people have different views on it. I know the son of a hereditary peer who stopped using his courtesy title years ago.

He says it changes how people view him and the snobs who want to be around him just because of a title.

Zara is probably glad she has no title as she seems like a no nonsense kind of person.

Just out of interest, who was the person who stopped using his title?

 

[Rudolph]

Someone I worked with when my family lived in England. No one you’ve even remotely heard of. You’d have to search his name if I told And I won’t. Privacy.

He’s not alone though. A lot of aristocrats use professional names. Depending on what you do for a living titles maybe a little too grand for some.

 

[Rosena6]

Someone I worked with when my family lived in England. No one you’ve even remotely heard of. You’d have to search his name if I told And I won’t. Privacy.

He’s not alone though. A lot of aristocrats use professional names. Depending on what you do for a living titles maybe a little too grand for some.

Oh ok; I thought it was someone famous.

 

[Rudolph]

A lot of aristocrats work at regular jobs. Especially the sons daughters and grandchildren.

Yet some are entitled to some pretty extravagant courtesy titles that seem somehow out of place.

Zara would have made a go of it no matter if she was Lady or princess but I wager she’s glad to be just plain Zara

 

[MARG]

It is interesting to think about "what if" but can you really imagine Anne wanting her husband to have a third-grade title when she, a hereditary blood princess of the UK cannot hand a title on to her children?

Princess Anne is the daughter of a Queen and the granddaughter of a King yet her situation is dictated by her marriage, just as her nieces Beatrice and Eugenie, the granddaughters, of the Queen are.

 

[Rosena6]

A lot of aristocrats work at regular jobs. Especially the sons daughters and grandchildren.

Yet some are entitled to some pretty extravagant courtesy titles that seem somehow out of place.

Zara would have made a go of it no matter if she was Lady or princess but I wager she’s glad to be just plain Zara

The Daily Mail royal correspondent said that she wouldn't be able to do what she does if she'd been a Princess. Not sure how true that is.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

The Daily Mail royal correspondent said that she wouldn't be able to do what she does if she'd been a Princess. Not sure how true that is.

I don't see how it could be true. Princess Anne competed in the Olympics and she owns a Horse eventing business despite being the daughter of the Queen.

 

[Somebody]

It is interesting to think about "what if" but can you really imagine Anne wanting her husband to have a third-grade title when she, a hereditary blood prince of the UK cannot hand a title on to her children?

Princess Anne is the daughter of a Queen and the granddaughter of a King yet her situation is dictated by her marriage, just as her nieces Beatrice and Eugenie, the granddaughters, of the Queen are.

Well, her aunt did just that only 13 years earlier and Anne grew up in an environment and with a father who was very explicit about the issue that titles were inherited in male-line (hr mother was the unwanted exception because she didn't have a brother), so I don't think it would have passed her mind that she should be able to pass on her own title.

If her husband would have received a title it would precisely be because of her, so her children's titles would receive titles because of who their mother was; had their father married someone else his children would be titleless for sure.

 

[Osipi]

Just out of interest, who was the person who stopped using his title?

No one stopped using their title. The way things work in the UK, the title of "princess" is passed down through the male line of descendants from the monarch. That is why Prince Andrew's daughters are Princesses of the UK and Princess Anne's children born without the title of Prince and Princess.

At the time of their marriage, Captain Mark Phillips was offered a title where, if he had accepted, his sons and daughters would have titles from their father. He declined and Anne and Mark's children had no titles at all.

Another example would be Princess Margaret's marriage to Anthony Armstrong Jones. Upon their marriage, Armstrong Jones was created the Earl of Snowdon and hence his children took their titles from their father.

 

[Denville]

Tony ArmstrongJones was only given a title after his marriage, when Margaret was pregnant..

 

[Osipi]

Tony ArmstrongJones was only given a title after his marriage, when Margaret was pregnant..

Ah... thanks much for the correction on that m'friend.

 

[Curryong]

Years ago a member of the Irish peerage was a senior detective based at Scotland Yard. He didn't use his title for obvious reasons, and hadn't since joining the police force.

On the other hand a title might be OK if you worked for one of those old, prestigious businesses in the West End, a wine merchants, for example.

However, it certainly made no difference to Zara's equestrian career. And let's not forget that her mother competed in the Olympics, and was a Princess.

 

[Denville]

Numerous people don't use their titles in professional life....

 

[Curryong]

Yes, we know. But the question for several posts has been would having a title been a hindrance or help to Zara in her professional career, and I think most have agreed it wouldn't have made any difference. Along the way other people's titles came into it.

 

[Somebody]

Having the princess royal and Mark Phillips as parents made the difference. Having or not having a title didn't.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

No one stopped using their title.

An acquaintance of Rudolph did--

Rudolph wrote "I know the son of a hereditary peer who stopped using his courtesy title years ago." Message #5

Rosena6 wrote "Just out of interest, who was the person who stopped using his title?" Message #6

 

[Countessmeout]

In reality having a title wouldn't have been a hinderance to either child. The children of aristocrats have normal lives every day. Even royal related ones.

Has being the children of the Earl Snowden stopped Sarah and her brother, now the Earl from normal lives? No. Sarah has had success in the art world and her brother in furniture making.

The children of the Duke of Kent? No. Earl of St Andrews managed a career in diplomacy and now non-profit despite his title, and his wife a historian. Helen is an art dealer.

The children for Prince Michael of Kent? No. Freddie works for JPMorgan and Lady Gabriella works as a writer and was studying or her PHD in anthropology.

The children of the Duke of Gloucester? No.Alexander was a career soldier and now works in business. Lady Rose is an art assistant in movies.

There are plenty of non royal aristocrats who hold every day jobs as well as their titles as well.

Zara's life would be no different, and Peter's highly unlikely, if their father had a title. They would still be private citizens who appeared at the rare royal event like Trooping.

Even without a title they are publically known as Anne's kids. There is no escaping that. If their mother hasn't hindered their career, a title wouldn't.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Lord Frederick Windsor also had been a model at one time. His title of His Lordship did not compete with him partaking a career.

 

[Westfield Bakery]

Do you think Peter and Zara have normal, middle class, commoner lives?

They are commoners, Peter is called Master Peter Phillips and Zara is called Mrs. Zara Tindall.....

They don't have maids, or courtiers, they live at Gatcombe, so do you think they see themselves as rich, or middle class commoners?

 

[Osipi]

Only they know how they see themselves.

 

[LauraS3514]

They are commoners, Peter is called Master Peter Phillips and Zara is called Mrs. Zara Tindall.....

They don't have maids, or courtiers, they live at Gatcombe, so do you think they see themselves as rich, or middle class commoners?

"Master" is for young boys. Peter has been "Mister" for decades.