What is your opinion of Frederik and Mary

[Lena]

This has been claimed by many before you - and I still don't understand it. Her list of patronages (taken from www.kronprinsparret.dk)

Well, I´m sure 90% of the posters in these thread know more or less about the patronages, she has.The thing is, that it´s so damn hard to grip, what social things she really follows. Ok, she meets once or all two years with members of these organisations and the ppl they deal with, but she has no real field, she´s into. Except fashion...yes, I agree to support the danish industry is important. But when this is her main field of interest and engagement, then she should maybe think about wearing mainly (or even only) danish clothes and not the most obvious and known pieces of international designers.

 

[Mandy]

Are we talking about the same German magazines that say that Haakon and Mette-Marit ignore Marius in favour of Ingrid Alexandra, because Marius (like other Norwegian children) walked in the parade on the national day, and Ingrid Alexandra, being a toddler, stays around the parents? Or are we talking about some more credible ones?

But maybe you're right, paca. Maybe the glamour of the wedding is starting to fade for the press? In addition, they've not gotten the proper mileage out of Alexandra and Joachim's divorce. (from a PR POV)

Are they the same rag mags that the Norwegian Palace threatened to sue because they were constantly talking about Ingrid Alexandra's hair and accusing her of having all sorts of diseases?

 

[Lena]

Are we talking about the same German magazines that say that Haakon and Mette-Marit ignore Marius in favour of Ingrid Alexandra, because Marius (like other Norwegian children) walked in the parade on the national day, and Ingrid Alexandra, being a toddler, stays around the parents? Or are we talking about some more credible ones?

But maybe you're right, paca. Maybe the glamour of the wedding is starting to fade for the press? In addition, they've not gotten the proper mileage out of Alexandra and Joachim's divorce. (from a PR POV)

Yes, we talk about the same press and we all know, that they aren´t too fond of the truth, but prefer to sell the mags with big headlines. I know that, you know that.
But Mary was treated so far rather nice...and it´s HIGHLY unusual for them that all mags write in one week the same stuff (usually it´s in one week in one mag "Poor Maxima, great sorrows about little Amalia" and in an other mag "Maxima, happy like never before") I think in the rather quiet holiday break, they considered it as great opportunity, that Mary held her own New Years court (and has looked better in pics before than when she wore the dark blue dress...which doesn´t mean anything. Everyone can have a bad day)
Well, I´m getting off topic.

 

[UserDane]

Lena, she does wear quite a lot of Malene Birger and Julie Fagerholt (Larzen is the expert at spotting this!). I do not adhere to the doctrine that a CP should wear solely 'home-made' clothes.
What she is into; from what I have read and understood she feels strongly for the heart association and the health fund. I don't think it is to be expected that she at this time should be able to outline a strongly cast profile with her patronages which she has had for little more than a year. Her situation, timewise, is comparable to that of Letizia. I am not aware that Letizia has outlined her profile in Spanish society by now - nor do she, or Mary, have to IMO so soon after becoming mothers.

​

 

[Marengo]

You are right norwegianner, these german rags shouldnt be taken seriously on any account. The amount of nonsense they publish is really astonishing and it amazes me that people are actually bying these things (which have much bigger lies then american/english etc gossip magazines).

 

[UserDane]

If they are worse than the Danish Se&Hør, they are really bad!

 

[eireann]

Perhaps the Danes or people in Denmark can answer this question - we see that Mary has a respectable number of patronages...however, she appears to be most known for her support of the fashion industry. As has been discussed several times on this forum, the media does play a role in how we interpret the behaviour of the royals...eg most of the international people will probably only see the fashion related stuff. I think it´s great that she is highlighting Danish fashion and Denmark, but I´m wondering whether in Denmark she has also raised the profile of her other patronages...I think this is something non-Danes will not be aware of...just through lack of international media interest.

 

[Margrethe II]

Perhaps the Danes or people in Denmark can answer this question - we see that Mary has a respectable number of patronages...however, she appears to be most known for her support of the fashion industry. As has been discussed several times on this forum, the media does play a role in how we interpret the behaviour of the royals...eg most of the international people will probably only see the fashion related stuff. I think it´s great that she is highlighting Danish fashion and Denmark, but I´m wondering whether in Denmark she has also raised the profile of her other patronages...I think this is something non-Danes will not be aware of...just through lack of international media interest.

I shall leave the broader aspect of the question for our Danish members ,but unfortunately it is the media who play up the Crown Princesses involvement with the fashion industry.

A possible explanation for this is that in our day and age, fashion is an icon in itself and when you take a public (let alone royal) figure (ie; Crown Princess Mary) and put it together with another (ie; Danish Fashion) the massess are sure to be interested and shall want to know and see more. This is how the magazines draw in the viewers, they know their market and they know what people want to see. This isnt to say that they aren't interested in Mary's other patronages and the work she puts into them, just that they wouldn't connect with , I guess, the younger demographic that endorses their products.

"MII"

 

[Sancia]

Danielane

I agree wholeheartedly but having a high degree, indicates a certain amount of drive, comittment and determination. Probably even a passion for achieving. There are many who have no degree, who have the same qualities but who do not have the degree to prove those characteristics.

However, if Mary was not intelligent in any way, she would not have made the grade I'm sure. She would have been a liability to the DRF, and Frederik as much as it may have pained him would not have I'm sure continued with the relationship.


Jaques D.

I agree with your points. THe only facts I was raising is some people have a high degree but are "intelligent" only in the subject of their degree. BEing in an university which prepares to highs degrees, I stated this a lot.

 

[Sancia]

A CV isn't evidence for her intelligence, you're right. Fortunately there's a lot of other evidence besides that, which show she is.

I never said the contrary. I just answered that a CV should be used as only evidence to one's intelligence.

 

[Lena]

I shall leave the broader aspect of the question for our Danish members ,but unfortunately it is the media who play up the Crown Princesses involvement with the fashion industry.

A possible explanation for this is that in our day and age, fashion is an icon in itself and when you take a public (let alone royal) figure (ie; Crown Princess Mary) and put it together with another (ie; Danish Fashion) the massess are sure to be interested and shall want to know and see more. This is how the magazines draw in the viewers, they know their market and they know what people want to see. This isnt to say that they aren't interested in Mary's other patronages and the work she puts into them, just that they wouldn't connect with , I guess, the younger demographic that endorses their products.

"MII"

Yes, you are right. And so we have to assume, that Misses Mary was tied up in ropes and was carried to the VOGUE photoshooting, and while the photographer (employed of the fashion industry and gossip rags) made the pics, Mary had a gun in her back
As it was said her before Mary is intelligent. I don´t doubt it, I even believe she´s really intelligent and knows where she wants to go. At the moment (or let´s be fair: before the baby was born...I dunno, how she will develop now. Her last choices for gala dresses were even quite matronly) she wants to be seen as fashion queen. This is the image she advertised. She has made these appointments with the magazines, she has chosen the fashion shows. I don´t think the other duties aren´t covered. Mary has the luck to live in small country, which covers her duties quite well. But the fashion things stood out, because she wanted it. As I´ve said I dunno, how this all will develop, but if you ask me, it was the worst start one could choose. And if we look at this thread (or the threads on Royal Blue or the CPEMB) then we all have to agree, that Mary is an extremely polarising Royal. People either dislike her or like her. There´s not much in between. At least not on the boards and in the press. I though guess the ordinary ppl in Denmark don´t care half as much as we do. They have gotten their wedding and the baby and will move on.

 

[paca]

Actually the one I was referring to was GALA and their articles in recent times were pretty decent. I read one about Monaco and for once they weren't blowing up all those sister war rumours and I don't think that they have published anything recently tha has caused them liabel suits. Of course that doesn't make them write the truth all the time, but they are less trashy then some others.

 

[princess olga]

This has been claimed by many before you - and I still don't understand it. Her list of patronages (taken from www.kronprinsparret.dk)

I think this list of her patronages is interesting because, as it turns out, it shows a clear and strong interest from Mary's part in mostly social and health issues. Just judging by the list, Mary is actually much more 'into' these humanitarian issues than she is into promoting Danish fashion.
Of course, that's contrary to the perception one gets from the media.
As Margrethe said, it is unfortunately the fashion part of this list that gets most media attention. That's understandable, as it's fashion, but it seems to me that Mary could use perhaps a better PR strategy to really leverage the media to highlight those other causes she is doing her best for.

Perhaps Mary is not (yet) as media-savvy, or, if you will, cynical, to milk the media to draw attention to the most unpopular of causes, as Diana was in her day. I am sure though that Mary will learn through trial and error how to use the media to draw attention to her other (other than fashion) interests in due course. If I were her, I'd ask sis-in-law Alexandra for some advice in this regard. Alexandra is very press savvy: she can go to the proverbial opening of an envelop and draw press attention to that!

Also, it is of course possible Mary is using these 'early' court years to figure out her niche.

What I'm wondering about in this sense is the role in this of her in-laws. I'm wondering whether for example Fred's (perceived?) low number of engagements might have something to do with the fact that his father, Henrik, blew up on him a few years ago when Fred accompanied his mother to some function.

If I remember correctly, that caused some sort of marital crisis between Margrethe and her husband, who complained that he felt left out and useless. So maybe Fred and MAry are taking things a bit easier because of this? Of course, on the other hand, nothing seems to stop Alexandra from having a full agenda of social engagements..

 

[Lena]

Actually the one I was referring to was GALA and their articles in recent times were pretty decent. I read one about Monaco and for once they weren't blowing up all those sister war rumours and I don't think that they have published anything recently tha has caused them liabel suits. Of course that doesn't make them write the truth all the time, but they are less trashy then some others.

I agree. GALA is one of the better mags and even much better than Scandinavian tabloids (I don´t say they are good, but better than these german "Frau mit Herz", "Neue Frau", "Frau Aktuell"-stuff)
But just like BUNTE they do observations. They judge things and write on them (IMO when you don´t have an interview, you can´t do anything else. Or how would you write an article on Royals without own opinions??). IMO the author of the article tried though to get the whole picture and to show both sides.
The article is online (http://www.gala.de/topstories/index.html?id=104088)
For a translation try:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/
Maybe I will do tomorrow a "real" translation and will post it in the news thread

 

[Saragli]

Mary is just starting out and she is doing a very good job and is involved immensly in her work. It is Fred who is lazy. Mary has an excuse for not working as hard as others cause she is just starting but Fred needs to be more involved.

 

[Larzen]

Where does it say that Princesses should only do social stuff, its a very oldfashioned view IMO. In todays society women work in all stakes of life, then why should the princesses only concern them selves with health and art events? Its annoying to me as a woman when I see royal couples (I dont talk about F and M particularely, it also goes for presidents and first ladies) and the man sits on business meetings and the woman visits shelters and exhibition, especially when you consider which part of the couple has had to make a living in the real world, and for the recently married couples it is the woman.

Another possible reason the fashion events get so much attention could be that in 2005 she attend 13-14 official fashion related events and several fashionshows in private as well, how many events did she attend for the heart association??

Anyway I think Marys agenda is much more impressive than Frederiks, he is approching 40, he is going to be head of state, not Mary, this week his offical/public agenda consists of seeing two movies. Mary has had 2 years to get used to her new life wastly different from what she had before and has started to get herself involved in several good causes, Frederik has had almost 40 years

 

[Lena]

What I'm wondering about in this sense is the role in this of her in-laws. I'm wondering whether for example Fred's (perceived?) low number of engagements might have something to do with the fact that his father, Henrik, blew up on him a few years ago when Fred accompanied his mother to some function.

If I remember correctly, that caused some sort of marital crisis between Margrethe and her husband, who complained that he felt left out and useless. So maybe Fred and MAry are taking things a bit easier because of this? Of course, on the other hand, nothing seems to stop Alexandra from having a full agenda of social engagements..

An very interesting theory, you have here, princess olga.
But I would maybe look at it with an other view or would have a solution. Obviously Henrik had problems, that he is lower ranked than his son. I would say this applies for everyday duties (galas included). So maybe Frederik and Mary could let the old man the grand duties on the side of his wife (known for grand duties) and Mary & Frederik could search an own niche´ With showing their love so open, they have set the first stone for an image of an young couple as alternative to the more regal Queen & prince. Of course they have to fill out this role later, when Frederik is king, but for now they could be some kind alternative. I imagine something with children & sports (they seem to like both) and I imagine an real charity foundation, where they both actively get involved. So I don´t want just to nag, but want to make a real suggestion as well. They could go on with the low basic agenda, but add a real charity project. So all would profit. Maybe others have ideas as well (?)

 

[princess olga]

Where does it say that Princesses should only do social stuff, its a very oldfashioned view IMO. In todays society women work in all stakes of life, then why should the princesses only concern them selves with health and art events? Its annoying to me as a woman when I see royal couples (I dont talk about F and M particularely, it also goes for presidents and first ladies) and the man sits on business meetings and the woman visits shelters and exhibition, especially when you consider which part of the couple has had to make a living in the real world, and for the recently married couples it is the woman.

Larzen,
no one is saying that Mary should occupy herself with only social stuff.

Heck, don't we all love and admire Maxima who is doing an EXCELLENT job in her capacity as a consultant to the World Bank and the IMF for the micro credit endeavor, which requires her to sit down with high-level banking types, and lobby her pretty behind off to try to interest these (mostly) gentlemen to take an economic interest in a truly forgotten category, namely people who don't have much disposable income (to put it mildly)?
Maxima is in this endeavor not just a figure head, as far as I can tell. She really knows her stuff, and uses that to convince people with influence. And also as far as I can tell, people seem to really love and applaud her for this effort, which is of course aimed at alleviating poverty, which, yes, is ultimately a social cause, but so what?! It still requires some deep economic insights, which Maxima has.

If, in due course, Mary would occupy herself with less 'pink' causes if you will, everyone would applaud her too, I'm sure.

Anyway I think Marys agenda is much more impressive than Frederiks, he is approching 40, he is going to be head of state, not Mary, this week his offical/public agenda consists of seeing two movies. Mary has had 2 years to get used to her new life wastly different from what she had before and has started to get herself involved in several good causes, Frederik has had almost 40 years

This is a very interesting comment. Why is it that Fred's agenda is so very light? As I mentioned in another post, could it be it is because he doesn't want to step on the long toes of his father who said a few years back he felt useless and left out?
Even if that would be the case, I am of the opinon Fred should occupy his time better. Perhaps he could take a page from his brother, and help him on the farm or whatever..

 

[Saragli]

His father is a jealous brat. When he ran away to France because his son outranked him got me so mad. His son is going to be the future king. He needs the spotlight, training, and experience. He is a blood prince and should outrank his father. His father is no excuse for being lazy. He can go to France and stay there if his attitude his keeping the future King of Denmark from contributing to Denmark. Federick needs to step it up. I know being the heir is hard and you have to carve out a role for yourself but he has had years and he is still not doing anything.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Maybe Frederik's schedule is a bit light because he has a family now that needs his attention. From what I've seen, Frederik and Mary want to be very hands on parents and their work load is bound to suffer to allow them to do that. But it's important that they are there as much as they can be for their son so that he grows up and develops properly.

 

[Alisa]

And if we look at this thread (or the threads on Royal Blue or the CPEMB) then we all have to agree, that Mary is an extremely polarising Royal. People either dislike her or like her. There´s not much in between. At least not on the boards and in the press. I though guess the ordinary ppl in Denmark don´t care half as much as we do. They have gotten their wedding and the baby and will move on.

I disagree with this. I think that people's opinion on Mary vary across a spectrum. There are some people that really like her, some that dislike her, and others in between. One only has to look at this thread and see the plethora of opinions about Mary.

 

[Margrethe II]

But the fashion things stood out, because she wanted it. As I´ve said I dunno, how this all will develop, but if you ask me, it was the worst start one could choose. And if we look at this thread (or the threads on Royal Blue or the CPEMB) then we all have to agree, that Mary is an extremely polarising Royal. People either dislike her or like her. There´s not much in between. At least not on the boards and in the press. I though guess the ordinary ppl in Denmark don´t care half as much as we do. They have gotten their wedding and the baby and will move on.

I disagree with you most strongly on many points made Lena...

And, I dont think so... Fashion stood out because the media wanted it to, not Mary.



"MII"

 

[Alisa]

And, I dont think so... Fashion stood out because the media wanted it to, not Mary.

"MII"

If Lena is referring to "fashion" regarding shoots from Vogue, Dansk..etc Then I agree with her and see her point. Unless, you are assuming that Queen Margrethe dictated that Mary agree to do the fashion shoots.

 

[Alisa]

Another possible reason the fashion events get so much attention could be that in 2005 she attend 13-14 official fashion related events and several fashionshows in private as well, how many events did she attend for the heart association??

I don't think that is the reason. In 2005 she attended about 28 non-fashion patronage engagements, that is twice the amount of official fashion engagements she carried out.

My theory is that the magazine interviews and photoshoots that she did at the start of her career as a princess has negatively influenced a few posters perception of her. So much so that whenever they see her they think of "fashion", undermining other work that she has done in various areas.

 

[Margrethe II]

If Lena is referring to "fashion" regarding shoots from Vogue, Dansk..etc Then I agree with her and see her point. Unless, you are assuming that Queen Margrethe dictated that Mary agree to do the fashion shoots.

Oh no, in regards to fashion shoots for Australian Vogue etc, of course they were meant to be seen, that was their purpose. That is something I agree with...

Unlike many Alisa, making frequent assumptions isn't really my style or something I like to do often if it can be helped. HM the Queen, forcing her daughter in-law to do a fashion shoot? dear 'o' dear.lol.... I believe Margrethe would have supported it, absolutely! I wouldn't be at all surprised if HM the Queen had photo's from the shoots in and around her apartments alongside all other members of her family, but, it's merely a thought that could be credible & nothing more.

"MII"

 

[Alexandria]

My theory is that the magazine interviews and photoshoots that she did at the start of her career as a princess has negatively influenced a few posters perception of her. So much so that whenever they see her they think of "fashion", undermining other work that she has done in various areas.

I think that this is a really good point Alisa.

The fashion shoots have really overshadowed (for some) the other good works and duties Mary has taken on and represented over the course of the last year and a half that have nothing to do with fashion.

On one level, we rarely see (reigning) princesses splashed across glossy fashion magazines with images specifically taken for the publication (as opposed to fashion magazines using paparazzi images or images taken at events) or giving interviews as Mary did for Vogue, Dansk, Women's Day, etc. While Mary made some insightful comments about her new role in these publications, the message that most (easily) saw was that she wanted to be a model and liked to dress up in pretty gowns. I'm not saying that this was the right inference to take, but as looks are the thing we notice first, it was the quickest impression to get without delving any further. So Mary's trio or so of photoshoots so closely together gave some people the impression that she liked media attention for herself and was purely about fashion.

Several years into their marriages, we have yet to see many of the other crown princesses posing in such publications (with the exception of the special Vanity Fair issue), so Mary's glossy photospreads were a novelty of sorts for royal watchers.

I think that Mary's choice to make some Danish fashion houses among her patronages is a good one, as many have pointed out that fashion is a big part of Denmark's economy. To pose in Dansk and to speak about Danish fashion surely only contributes to her bringing greater attention to the Danish fashion industry. But I think had the photoshoots been spaced out, say one at the time, then one through the summer during Denmark's fashion week, the Mary is a fashion-maven impression might not be so lasting in the minds of some individuals.

But what can one do? The decision for those interviews and fashion shoots was made. Mary is not the sole one to blame -- others agreed to the decision(s), too. And if some people are hung up on the impression/image that Mary is only about fashion, I don't think that there is much that others who don't believe this can do to change their mind.

 

[ysbel]

So Mary's trio or so of photoshoots so closely together gave some people the impression that she liked media attention for herself and was purely about fashion.

Hmm, Alexandria, that's an interesting observation. I think one's perception of Mary can depend on when we started watching her.

I wasn't following royalty when Mary first got married. I first learned of her when I decided to catch up on the royals and remembered that Denmark had a fascinating Queen. So I checked out the Danish royal website and found two unusual but striking and very royal looking princesses in Alexandra and Mary.

I couldn't find much press on Mary and Fred in the U.S. - a clip of their wedding, a couple of small articles about their trip to Australia, and that's it. The wedding looked divine.

When I learned about the interview and the photoshoots, they were all in the far past. The interview did seem dumb but Mary wasn't giving interviews or photoshoots by the time I started watching her. I chalked it up to beginners mistakes. Since she obviously wasn't doing them anymore, she must have learned from her mistakes.

I can see why people would take a negative first impression from the photoshoots and interviews; if I had started watching Mary at that time, I may have been equally annoyed. But the impression they left with people wasn't part of the image that I saw of Mary herself when I started watching her and I haven't seen Mary foster that image since. So from the way I see it, that image is solely in the past and as far as I can tell its not part of the present Mary or part of the image that she herself is projecting now.

If I had started watching Mary earlier, my opinion of her might be different but I started watching her when her own activities were rather tame and not so provoking.

 

[lise]

I personally don't have anything against Frederik and Mary. After reading some of the posts on this thread I believe Mary is a victim of the age old saying "First impressions last".

After reading the opening post on this thread princess olga I don't think you can blame star stuck Aussies on Frederik and Mary winning a few popularity polls in Hello magazine because I'm an Aussie and I personally have never seen an issue of Hello magazine on sale in Australia.

 

[Lady Bluffton]

Haughty walk

Don't get me wrong...girl "next door" marries her prince and they live happily ever after. Gosh, that's what has intrigued me about Mary ever since I first heard of her. Being a beautiful, striking woman doesn't hurt either. However, until the Lilleprinsen was born, I had only seen print photos of her. I watched via internet one of the Danish TV stations' footage of the little royal family leaving the hospital following the birth. Maybe she was under medication (I can only imagine) and trying to teeter totter in her heels (I am impressed by any woman tackling heels a scant three or four days after giving birth), but there was something about her walk that struck me as quite haughty and juvenile. "Look here! Look at me, look at me, ME!"

(Sorry, Mary, if you're reading this, but watch yourself sometime, that's the impression it gives.)

After viewing that footage, my wholehearted enthusiasm about Mary has had the wind taken out of me.

I'm sure she is perfectly delightful, but maybe the position has gone to her head. Psychologically, who wouldn't have the same experience?

 

[Warren]

...because I'm an Aussie and I personally have never seen an issue of Hello magazine on sale in Australia.

A bit off topic, but every newsagency that I have seen (Sydney CBD, Inner City and Eastern Suburbs) carries Hello! magazine. Maybe it's different in Adelaide.