Wedding of William and Catherine: Suggestions and Musings

[Sister Morphine]

I've been to Jewish weddings, I've been to Hindu weddings, I've been to Christian weddings, I've been to Muslim weddings, I've been to a Pagan handfasting......it's all incredibly interesting to me, regardless. Some people are disgustingly touchy about religion, and I for the life of me cannot understand why. If what you believe is personal to you, than what someone else does or does not do should have zero bearing or affect on you and what you believe. If two Christians want to stomp on a glass at the end of their wedding like they would in a Jewish service, what the hell does that have to do with you being a Christian? Nothing, that's what. It's not offensive to you if they do that, it's not offensive to anyone except the people who willingly go out of their way to be offended by everything. I'm an atheist -- I don't get all cranky when I'm at a wedding and they pray or take communion or do anything that has nothing to do with what I personally feel/think. I don't get all indignant and huffy and start stamping my feet because they're doing something that is connected to something I personally don't believe in.

I don't think it's going to happen, simply because it doesn't sound rooted in reality. While Kate and William have diverse tastes and will be the King and Queen of a vast commonwealth of peoples one day, I don't think with any shred of credibility, they are going to do this during their wedding service. Part of the problem with very little news coming out about the ceremony is that literally anything we hear that is connected to this event, suddenly becomes fact. We could read an article next that Kate is going to be topless going down the aisle wearing leis from Hawaii, and someone here will go "She can't do that! She's marrying in a church!"

 

[melissaadrian]

I see your point here, Madame Royale (Duchesse d'Angouleme, is it?). But even in reigning houses, anybody can do as he wishes - at a price, but he or she can. That's what Human Rights are for.So it's not a matter of laws, but of the question if the heir has the same idea of the future of his house than the head of it. EG I doubt any direct heir to an European throne would marry an African girl, even a princess, thus introduce African genes into the gene pool of his august family. Or could you see William marry the siste of prince Seeiso of Lesotho and make her his future queen? Okay, one of the Windsor-girls is married to a Maori but she is far removed from the line of sucessions < ed Warren > .. Sorry if I sound like a racist but this is not abou my own opinion of intercultural marriages but my thoughts about the lines the Royal houses follow.

Sorry if you sound racist? < ed Warren - removed response to deleted part of quote >
You might not approve of interracial marriages, which wake up it is the 21st century and while we may never see it with a royal couple at least close to the throne, is common and accepted in public now, but that is pure racist. To even make a comment that compares Africans to Neandrethals, do you think about what you type before you type it? Honestly. Do you think everyone on here is caucasian, I am, but I wouldn't doubt there are others who aren't.

 

[Mia_mae]

"This is so disappointing that I have no further comment on this thread."

ow well!!

 

[Madame Royale]

Some people are disgustingly touchy

So it would seem...

 

[Sister Morphine]

So it would seem...

Well I certainly know you're not referring to me. I honestly could care less about religion or what any individual chooses to believe or not believe. I wasn't raised to care. You think what you think, I think what I think, we both live our lives peacefully.

 

[soapstar]

Sorry if you sound racist? < ed Warren - removed response to deleted part of quote > You might not approve of interracial marriages, which wake up it is the 21st century and while we may never see it with a royal couple at least close to the throne, is common and accepted in public now, but that is pure racist. To even make a comment that compares Africans to Neandrethals, do you think about what you type before you type it? Honestly. Do you think everyone on here is caucasian, I am, but I wouldn't doubt there are others who aren't.

Thank you for saying something. I completely missed the comment you quoted. I don't even know where to begin...I'm just truly speechless right now.

 

[Sister Morphine]

I think speechless is rather charitable, considering.

 

[soapstar]

^Most definitely.

I'm so disgusted. I don't understand how people can feel this way. Nor do I understand the need to make it known on a board that is visited by all different types of people.

 

[rossop7]

I'm with you guys, I'm completely flummoxed. I'm hoping we've somehow misinterpreted the original post in some way (I've no idea how since it was pretty clear but I'm trying to keep an open mind that someone wouldn't just post something like that & not realise how it could offend many people). Otherwise I just don't know what to say to a post like that.

 

[Rosapru]

Regarding the conversation between members I suggest we wait until sunday. But I'm pretty sure this is not news. I cant believe it. None serious newspapers as the Times (on its frontpage) or the Telegraph has this story at the present moment. So can you explain how a blogger (because the information is just related in on a blog, not in a newspaper) could have this exclusive information and not the senior journalists? absoluterly impossible. Even the Sun which is very well informed traditionnaly doesnt have it. And the mail ? no more. The wedding is very traditionnel, just see the musicians choosen, the harpist, the abbey, everything shows tradition, and to show that britain is a multicultal country they invite a representative of each faith (that part is true and it's even true and the case at each mess or communion at westminster).
I have great respect and admiration for all communities and cultures and faith, but I agree with Madame Royale, thoses traditional gestures from other cultures are too important to be treated as the blogger intend to make us believes. I dont believe this info for one second.

On a lighter note, please real this lovely article on the way Australia is perceiving william's wedding.
BBC News - Why republican Australia warms to Prince William

 

[Queen Penelope]

If two Christians want to stomp on a glass at the end of their wedding like they would in a Jewish service, what the hell does that have to do with you being a Christian? Nothing, that's what.

I don't think it's going to happen, simply because it doesn't sound rooted in reality.

Well, you are right that it doesn't have anything to do with me, or anyone, being Christian. My feeling, however, is that if two people who share the same religion are marrying, you wouldn't being in elements from another religion. Not without a very personal connection to that religion anyway

I agree, it doesn't sound rooted in reality.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Can't two people appreciate the symbolism of that act and want to incorporate it into their own wedding? I'm not saying William and Kate are doing this, just that I don't understand the problem with anyone doing it. The Breaking of the Glass is a very symbolic thing in a Jewish wedding yes, but it symbolizes something that is inherent and present in ALL marriages, not just between those of the Jewish faith.

Another poster already detailed what it symbolizes, what it means, what it stands for......what is wrong with incorporating something that meaningful into your wedding, even if you or your spouse-to-be aren't Jewish?

I'm glad I don't have these hang-ups.

 

[Tilla]

I know that in the old Chinese philosophy of harmony (Feng Shui) the breaking of glass means misfortune, whether the breaking of earthenware means luck.

 

[texankitcat]

I am not sure how adopting certain traditional gestures from other cultures will in any way is trivialising or compromising Willaim's future position as Defender of the Faith.

William's primary constituency are the people of Britain, and to a lesser extent, the other countries of which Queeen is head of state (which as you know is only a subset of the Commonwealth). The largest ethnic and religious groups in the UK outside the Anglican and Catholic communities are people from the Indian sub-continent (comprising Hindu, Sikh and Muslim faiths), Jewish people and Afro-Carribeans. As you are no doubt aware, Christianity is widespread amongst the Afro-Carribean communities. You may also be aware that the henna custom for the bride referred to is used amongst Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims.

Just because the wedding will be televised around the world does not mean that he needs to appease every ethnic or religious group of the world.

I didn't say it would compromise William's future position, however people feel very strongly about their cultures, religion and traditions. To use their traditions in a trivial manner or mix them with other traditions, i.e; Muslim, Hindu henna tradition mixed with the Judaism tradition of breaking the glass, in such a public way can have unintended consequences. In such a volatile atmosphere where religions and belief systems are so sensitive, I don't see this is necessary nor wise. England like the US is a melting pot of many cultures and traditions. I get that. However, as several people have pointed out already, if they want to show that they respect other diverse cultures and religions, then there are others ways to do so without incorporating those traditions into a Christian wedding that will be aired around the world.

 

[jonc93]

I think the mixing of religions is odd, royals sure aren't what they used to be. I at one point was so excited for this wedding because I thought it would turn out to be the grandest royal wedding that we've seen in years but they're trying to hard to be like ordinary people. I think they shouldn't include practices of other cultures or religions that they aren't a part of, I'm assuming they're Christians because they are marrying in a christian church (that doesn't mean anything really) so they should have a christian wedding. If they want a mix & match wedding, get married in a civil ceremony then have a non-denominational service including multiple religions on Buckingham Palace Lawn, a church is not a carnival to put thing on display!

 

[Queen Penelope]

I'm not particularily religious, but I don't know why, it's just kinds seems odd to want to borrow from other religions if you are of a particular religion (and don't have ties to other religions). If they were to incorporate elements, I can see the reasoning for it, but IMO it may be something that might sound better in theory than practice.

To expand on your point on breaking the glass - if it symbolizes something that is universal to all marriages, then why not find something that symbolizes the same thing in their religion? just a thought.

Religion touches a nerve with some people, borrowing from one when you identify with another is bound to raise a eyebrow or two.

 

[ladongas]

Who is Esther Calthorpe-Watts?

I've googled her, and the only mention of her name is from the blogs who are quoting her. She doesn't seem to exist aside from this "story".

 

[PrincessKaimi]

I too believe Madame Royale's words are very well chosen.

A marriage is supposed to have deep meaning, hence the ceremony. If these other traditions had deep meaning to the couple, I could understand. But taking some trivial "fun" aspect of the other religions and incorporating it, isn't truly a gesture of respect to that religion (in the eyes of many practitioners of non-Christian faiths).

Now, it is true that in the distant past of William's ancestors, there were the Beaker-Breakers of northern Europe (and the Semitic/Jewish custom of glass breaking is likely related, it might have been a very broad practice at one time). But the groom stomping a wineglass has become strongly associated with Jewish weddings, of course.

Even earlier, Indo-Europeans shared customs of ritualized painting (using ochre before henna). But, I do not see this couple as deeply involved with resurrecting prehistoric rituals.

The Church of England traditions are, themselves, steeped in meaning.

If it turns out this news is true, I will attribute it to the youthful enthusiasm of a young couple who went to university at a time when multiculturalism of this type was popular. I do like the British royal marriages of the past where various impresa/insignia were incorporated into cloaks and dresses, but they were always of the heritage of the couple themselves.

No matter what, all this will fade in the excitement of the wedding itself (if it is even true).

 

[Skippy]

Who Says That It Is True?

Wouldn't it be best to wait for Sunday's official announcement?

 

[soapstar]

^Yep. It's definitely best to wait until Sunday's announcement.

I've googled her, and the only mention of her name is from the blogs who are quoting her. She doesn't seem to exist aside from this "story".

I couldn't find anything on her either. Plus, none of the other papers have picked up this story. It sounds to me like the article is made up.

 

[Zonk]

With that in mind (waiting for Sunday's announcement), let's move on.

 

[Queen Penelope]

So was it just that blog, or are there reputable sources saying there will be a official announcement on Sunday??

Somone out there is having a laugh I think!

anyway....

 

[Skippy]

So was it just that blog, or are there reputable sources saying there will be a official announcement on Sunday??

Somone out there is having a laugh I think!

anyway....

It doesn't sound unlikely, now that I think about it. Perhaps it's just someone who wanted to stir the pot.

We shall see on Sunday.

 

[Kataryn]

Sorry if you sound racist? < ed Warren - removed response to deleted part of quote > You might not approve of interracial marriages, which wake up it is the 21st century and while we may never see it with a royal couple at least close to the throne, is common and accepted in public now, but that is pure racist. To even make a comment that compares Africans to Neandrethals, do you think about what you type before you type it? Honestly. Do you think everyone on here is caucasian, I am, but I wouldn't doubt there are others who aren't.

I think you misunderstood me. Completely. I didn't write anything personal about me and my opinions. I am sorry if I sounded as if I thought Africans are "worse" than Maori - that's not my opinion. I just wanted to point out that a lady in line of succession was formally granted permission to marry a New Zealander with Maori-ancestry but that I don't think it would be easy for someone closer to the throne to marry an African - princess or not.

Edit: I just saw others felt hurt by my post and I'm truly sorry about that. So please believe that I didn't write about my own opinions which are completely open: whoever my own son decides to marry is alright by me when it comes to cultural or regional background. But she should be kind to him....

BUT: I don't think the Royals think along these lines. That was what I wanted to say.
BTW - I have African ancestry myself and am married to a man born at a hospital with direct views into the Neandertal - which is in between Duesseldorf and Mettmann in Germany... so, well, I have no problem with marriages others might think are unusual.

 

[Mia_mae]

With that in mind (waiting for Sunday's announcement), let's move on.

Amen!


BTW, it was officially announced today that the Prince of Orange and Princess Maxima will attend wedding of William & Kate on 29 April
twitter.com/nettyroyal

 

[tenngirl4]

Not knowing a whole lot about BRF protocol, I'm curious as to how much say HM has regarding the ceremony. If she felt something wasn't proper, is it possible she could object and William and Catherine would have to listen? Could she "put her foot down?"

 

[Sister Morphine]

I don't doubt one bit that if the Queen thought something wasn't appropriate for a royal wedding at Westminster Abbey, she'd put the kibosh on it, even if it isn't her wedding. She's paying for it, so ultimately in some matters, she has the final say.

 

[ghost_night554]

Before anyone jumps on me for this I am in no way questioning Kate this is just an honest question. When William is out working I wonder what exactly she does I mean right now she's busy with the wedding but after obviously she will be doing some solo engagements and will build up slowly in time but on the days that she doesn't have any and William is away for the day I wonder what she's going to do.

 

[MRSJ]

Amen!

BTW, it was officially announced today that the Prince of Orange and Princess Maxima will attend wedding of William & Kate on 29 April
twitter.com/nettyroyal

Oh this is excellent! I love Max

http://m.people.com/newsitem.rbml?item=20474794
Hilarious..... Kate and William teabags.... Too funny

 

[jdcharlie]

As "interesting" and a bit disheartening this thread was to read, this story is a joke to mark the weekend's Purim festival. Check out www.thejc.com/node/46723