BeatrixFan said:
Well, for me personally, I have a huge personal devotion to them because of the faith I have. Alexandra has become my personal Saint and when I'm chrismated, I'm taking the name Alexis as a male version of her name so I do have a strict devotion to her but I'm not blind to the fact that Nicholas wasn't a good ruler. But I'd say that he was a good Tsar because he did have the loyalty of alot of Russians at the start of his reign and even at the end. I think there were two major factors in his reign that made his life impossible and those were his family and as you rightly say CasiraghiTrio, he never wanted to be Tsar.
Alexandra was good for Nicholas because she loved him and adored him but her religious views, whilst I personally agree with them, influenced Nicholas in a way that was quite harmful. When Nicholas said, "I must listen to the Duma", Alexandra would tell him that he was their God given Tsar and he should ignore them. Now whilst I agree with her, when Russia was calling out for a parliament, Nicholas could have given it to them.
I understand your feelings are very sentimental, so I will try to state my reply respectfully. It's difficult because fundamentally we come from very different perceptions of the same events. To me, it was not just loyalty that motivated Alexandra. At the risk of trying to put myself in her mind, I feel it was also extreme stupidity. Alexandra has a good heart. She loved her family. But she was a simpleton who was too easily persuaded by religion and charming, well-spoken courtiers. Alix was told what she wanted to hear, that everything would be fine, people would "see" the light, things would sort themselves out, and she believed this because it is what she wanted to believe. It is easy to have blind faith in your god when you are living in the utmost comfort and don't have the normal daily fears and stress of daily life (how to meet the rent, feed your children when you have been laid off from your factory job.) Meanwhile, Alix is praying in the palace chapel, and Lenin is traveling from Germany on a train, on his way to organize his band of brothers and capitalize with them on the feverish discontent of the masses. You can talk sentimentally, but a rational, methodical, pragmatic figure such as Lenin will outsmart your blind faith everytime. This overzealousness of religious faith and belief in the sentiment of the Tsar being "annointed by God" (a myth) had no chance against the pragmatic (nay, dogmatic) and ruthless Bolsheviki vanguard. One could argue that Alix and Nicky avoided the problems instead of trying to solve them. "Oh, let God handle it," seems to be their approach.
To me, it seems Nicholas had two sides to his beliefs about his role. On the one hand he saw himself as a servant to the people, a diplomat and someone who felt that the people should have a Duma and a system like the British. But then he'd change completely and would take on a more autocratic stance. He was the Tsar and what he said was law and that was that.
I do disagree with your last statement, because I think monarchy can work as a form of Government but it has to have a safety net and in Russia's case, the Duma was the that safety net. When it was removed, Nicholas had no idea what to do with the aftermath. I believe that he was so scared when riots happened etc that the answer was to just silence it. If he couldn't see it, it wasn't happening. And in the beginning it worked. He could pop off to Livadia or Spala and be with his family and riots in St Petersburg were a million miles away. But later on, it became harder and shooting the rioters did the job but it painted him as a tyrant rather than as a man who was devoted to Russia but suffered at the hands of demanding politicians, a domineering wife and mother and a 17th century country trying to survive in a 20th century world.
I am as much enamored of royalty and all the traditions it preserves as anyone else on the forums. However, as a system of government? No.... I think it was never an effective system of government. Take Alix and Nicky's "faith" in God as a case in point. Any ruler who leaves problems to God to handle is a scary ruler, in my opinion. Leave it to God? You might as well have no government at all.
I will just point out though that Nicholas didn't order the shooting of those who marched towards the palace in 1905. He was blamed for it but it's well documented that the commanding officer on duty panicked when he saw the crowds coming rather quickly and ordered the shooting himself. Nicholas was then called Bloody Nicholas and called brutal and a tyrant but he didn't know about it until it had happened.
Touche
I cannot argue with this.
I think that you bring up an interesting point that people do have blind loyalty but I think that for non-religious people, it's the fact that such a horrific murder could take place and the killers never brought to trial. It's as if the affection somehow makes up for it. Of course, the religious position is very very different because Nicholas and Alexandra are given a special place in Russian Orthodoxy and the entire Romanov dynasty is treated with a reverance and a deference that hasn't changed. I do think there is a danger of people becoming carried away with the romanticism of it all but by keeping things in context there's alot to be learned from Nicholas and Alexandra.
Another good point. The murder was heinous, no person with a heart can argue that. But there are millions of heinous crimes that go unrepented, unpunished. This one captures us because it was committed against famous people, a ruling family. To raise them to sainthood????
I won't say anymore except that I don't agree with making them saints, but that's because I am not of Russian Orthodox persuasion, in case you hadn't noticed already....
You Russian Orthodox, Catholic, and Greek Orthodox people can keep your saints, it's your right, but I have no part of that...hehe.
But I must add that I fully believe in honoring them, if for nothing else but their suffering. Anyone who suffers like that should be honored. I love the Romanovs. I hope my statements have not misled anyone to think otherwise.
I just like to be objective. It's good to discuss these matters. If I had not made my original post then I would not have been put in my place regarding the 1905 revolution. Am I wrong on the year? 1905? '02? For some reason, those years in Russian history blur in my memory. It's such an eventful phase, with so many dates....