Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children

[Countessmeout]

Really don't have to look far. To his brother. The Earl of Strathearn was a peerage in Scotland in the thirteen hundreds. Didn't stop it being used now for William. Or the others before him since the Union of thrones.

 

[MaiaMia_53]

Cumberland and Albany are unavailable as there are living claimants to both titles. They were stopped from being used under the Titles Deprivations Act 1917 but future heirs have had the right to petition for them to be restored. While there are living heirs neither can be used.

The last time the Ross title was used it was as an Earldom for Charles I and we all know what happened to him. It is also a title from the peerage of Scotland and so I am not sure if it can be used in the UK - I know that there are still peers who hold their peerage in the peerage of Scotland from before 1701 but I can't find any creation of a peerage that had been in the peerage of Scotland that has been then recreated in the peerage of the UK (no doubt someone will come up with one ... always the way.

Yes, I linked an article earlier in this thread about the abeyant dukedoms of Cumberland and Albany, so I am aware that those titles have claimants. This happened as a result of Charles Edward Duke of Albany, the son of Queen Victoria's youngest son, Prince Leopold, being stripped of a British peerage due to his German loyalties during WW I. And similarly the Cumberland title belonged to an uncle of Queen Victoria, Ernest Augustus, who was given the responsibility of ruling Hanover when Victoria became Queen of England (because under the misogynistic Salic Law, QV was prevented from ruling Hanover as a female). During WW I, the Cumberland dukedom was deprived of Ernest Augustus' descendant. Today the Cumberland title is potentially available to the current Prince Ernst of Hanover, third husband of Princess Caroline of Monaco.

I suppose there is no urgency felt by HM QE II to either restore these two peerages to the respective German descendants, or to resolve the abeyance status by taking back both titles for British use.

Here's the article in question (written prior to Prince William receiving the Duke of Cambridge title):
A Dukedom for Harry? | Unofficial Royalty

 

[Dee Anna]

No. Connaught is in Ireland.

It is indeed! and not part of the UK. However, when the title was created all of Ireland was governed by England, until 1922. It took us a while but we got there in the end!

 

[Spheno]

one more option is Duke of Dorset

 

[Dee Anna]

Why does a Prince have to wait to marry to be granted a Dukedom? If Harry never married would his potential titles be held back.? Just wondering!

 

[Molly2101]

Why does a Prince have to wait to marry to be granted a Dukedom? If Harry never married would his potential titles be held back.? Just wondering!

It seems to be the tradition of late that the men receive a title upon marriage. If Harry never marries I am not sure what will happen, although I can't see him never marrying.

 

[Mbruno]

Of course. The only hindrance is the tradition not to make "duplicate" titles (e.g. not to make someone "Duke of Albemarle" if another living person is the Earl of Albemarle).

Duke of Albemarle and Earl of Albemarle are two different titles, so, as it has already been argued by other posters in this forum, there is no impediment to grant Harry a dukedom that has the same territorial designation of another existing earldoms. Some posters previously provided examples where that situation exists in practice in the peerage.

 

[Curryong]

The Queen has certainly given Dukedoms (and an earldom) to her sons and grandson on marriage, but that didn't happen in previous reigns. King George V gave all his sons Dukedoms, for instance, unconnected to their marital status (they were all bachelors at the time.)

I can't imagine that, when Charles becomes King and a bachelor Harry would no longer be 'of Wales,' that Charles would not give him a dukedom. However, I don't think that will be necessary. I can see Harry marrying in the next year or so, anyway.

 

[Vicomte de Valjean]

one more option is Duke of Dorset

I have no idea why a "Dorset" title hasn't been taken by anyone (royal or aristocrat) since the Dukedom and Earldom of Dorset went extinct in 1843. It's a fairly attractive and prestigious title.

Duke of Albemarle and Earl of Albemarle are two different titles, so, as it has already been argued by other posters in this forum, there is no impediment to grant Harry a dukedom that has the same territorial designation of another existing earldoms. Some posters previously provided examples where that situation exists in practice in the peerage.

It's possible but very unlikely. "Vacant" designations are usually preferred but when they're "duplicated," title designations are usually changed in some grotesque way (e.g. "Earl of Buckinghamshire"). In addition, Albemarle is unlikely used in a title again if the current Earldom of Albemarle goes extinct, given that Albemarle (or Aumale) is in France, since George III officially dropped the British claim to the Kingdom of France in 1801.

 

[wyevale]

Mr & Mrs Henry Mountbatten-Windsor looks increasingly likely !

 

[AdmirerUS]

As dutifully as we chase this topic on TRF, I had expected to see London odds for Harry's future title. No such joy. Here is an aggregating site: Online Novelty Betting Odds - Paddy Power
Search for this under ROYAL SPECIALS to see where you can put your money.

 

[Osipi]

I think I would rather place bets on what Harry and Meghan would name their first dog they adopt together.

 

[Curryong]

Mr & Mrs Henry Mountbatten-Windsor looks increasingly likely !

I don't think that is likely at all. IMO it will be a Dukedom, probably Sussex, given on Harry's wedding day. His wife will then join him in undertaking Royal duties.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

It seems to be the tradition of late that the men receive a title upon marriage. If Harry never marries I am not sure what will happen, although I can't see him never marrying.

Perhaps to give the title Duchess (or Countess) to their wives, rather than Princess Andrew, Princess Edward, Princess William. Just a thought, may not be at all accurate. I think at some point Harry would get a Dukedom whether he married or not, but this monarch seems to like to pair the two events.

Also someone suggested Windsor for Harry's title. I don't see the Windsor title being used yet--it is too soon. Too many people are still around from when the abdication occurred or heard about it from their parents.

 

[KayCee]

First time posting here but I've been trying to read everyone's earlier posts on this topic. I've been enjoying reading everyone's posts very much.


What are your thoughts about a two territorial dukedom being created for Harry? I know Clarence has been used in this way twice before, but this time what about Duke of Clarence and Ross. I know it's probably something that won't happen, but I rather like the sound of that. In this case, could Harry also be Earl of Ross? I think if I could grant him a dukedom it would be Duke of Clarence and Ross, Earl of Ross, and Baron LeCale (of Northern Ireland). Thank you!

 

[orlando33]

I like the sound of that too!

 

[Ish]

First time posting here but I've been trying to read everyone's earlier posts on this topic. I've been enjoying reading everyone's posts very much.


What are your thoughts about a two territorial dukedom being created for Harry? I know Clarence has been used in this way twice before, but this time what about Duke of Clarence and Ross. I know it's probably something that won't happen, but I rather like the sound of that. In this case, could Harry also be Earl of Ross? I think if I could grant him a dukedom it would be Duke of Clarence and Ross, Earl of Ross, and Baron LeCale (of Northern Ireland). Thank you!

Welcome to TRF!

Harry could be created Duke of Ross or Earl of Ross - both titles are available - but it's unlikely he'd be Duke of Ross and Earl of Ross. Typically, when you see matching titles like that it's because someone was first created Earl of Whatever, then separately they (or more likely their descendant) were elevated to a higher title. The Duke of Bedford is an example of that happening; John Russell was created 1st Earl of Bedford in 1551, in 1694 the 5th Earl was created the 1st Duke of Bedford.

It's incredibly unlikely that Harry will end up with two Dukedoms, or even one Dukedom with two territorial designations. As Harry's brother and uncle each only have one Dukedom with one territorial designation, it's unlikely that Harry would be given two; if anyone was going to be given two, it would have been William.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Charles has two Dukedoms - Cornwall and Rothesay. Of course he doesn't use both at the same time. He may even hold three Dukedoms at once when Philip dies as he will inherit Edinburgh (Edward can only be created Duke of Edinburgh after both Philip and The Queen die so that the title has merged with the Crown)

However, the instant the Queen passes William will use two at the same time - Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge. He won't use Rothesay and Cambridge in Scotland but will be Cornwall and Cambridge everywhere else - until Charles creates him Prince of Wales - assuming he does.

 

[Countessmeout]

Charles is a bad example. The titles of the prince if Wales are not a personal appointment. Yes, the sovereign has to create then, but the title is no question. The duchies and itherctitles are established, some for many centuries.

A double dukedome has never been common in the royals. One hasn't been granted since Albert Victor. And he had a double duchy instead of an earl title. It seems highly unlikely such a tradition would be resurrected after so long.

being Duke of X, Earl of X (x being same designation) traditionally reflects an elevation. Like if Edward instead of being made Duke of Edinburgh was made Duke of Wessex.


Harry, Duke of Clarence, Earl of Ross... Has a strong sound.

 

[NoShades]

Is it 100% established Harry gets a Dukedom upon marriage?

I am thinking more he may well have a courtesy Earldom bestowed on him by the Queen (like she did Edward) and then once/if Charles ascends the throne, a Dukedom. But who knows.

 

[Pranter]

Is it 100% established Harry gets a Dukedom upon marriage?

I am thinking more he may well have a courtesy Earldom bestowed on him by the Queen (like she did Edward) and then once/if Charles ascends the throne, a Dukedom. But who knows.

I think the consensus is here that yes. He will be created Duke of X.


LaRae

 

[Osipi]

Is it 100% established Harry gets a Dukedom upon marriage?

I am thinking more he may well have a courtesy Earldom bestowed on him by the Queen (like she did Edward) and then once/if Charles ascends the throne, a Dukedom. But who knows.

Actually, Edward has a royal earldom. Its not a courtesy. The courtesy titles apply to his wife and his first son that would use a secondary title that Edward holds.

I do not think Harry will go the way Edward did. Edward is a one off situation as it is intended that once the Queen and Philip have passed on, Edward will be created The Duke of Edinburgh. Edward and Sophie specifically asked that their children not bear the HRH Prince or Princess also.

It is almost a certainty in my opinion that Harry will be created a duke upon marriage. It wouldn't surprise me though that he would go the route that Edward did with requesting that any children he has be like Edward's and titled and styled as children of a royal duke but not carry the HRH Prince and Princess.

We'll just have to watch and see.

 

[Rhea6]

But Harry is a senior royal today and 1 of the 2 children of the POW. Harry is Way more popular than Edward ever was or ever will be . Can't compare Edward and Harry s situation.
Most importantly he's Diana s son and that in itself makes him different in the eyes of public .
I would be surprised if he isn't made a duke upon marriage !

 

[miss whirley]

But Harry is a senior royal today and 1 of the 2 children of the POW. Harry is Way more popular than Edward ever was or ever will be . Can't compare Edward and Harry s situation.
Most importantly he's Diana s son and that in itself makes him different in the eyes of public .
I would be surprised if he isn't made a duke upon marriage !

Popularity has nothing to do with it. The only reason Edward didn't get a Dukedom on his wedding day is because he's waiting for the Edinburgh ducal title. His choice. If Harry doesn't want his kids to be Prince(s)/Princess(es) then they won't. If Harry asks for an Earldom, because let's say he wants to wait for the York ducal title, then he will be an Earl.

I'm not sure what Diana has to do with this, if she had so much clout she wouldn't have lost her HRH.

 

[Abbigail]

I'm not sure why Harry would ask for an Earldom, certainly not if it has anything to do with wanting to be Duke of York? I understand the history behind it but I've seen no reason to believe he'd insist on having that title.

 

[Osipi]

I think we can reasonably be assured that Harry will be created a duke upon marriage. In modern times, that seems to be the way it happens. Even should Harry request that his children not be HRHs, Harry and his spouse are still going to be very prominent working as senior royals.

The family probably already has all this worked out. There's been rumors afoot that Charles wants a slimmed down monarchy. If Harry should request that his children not be HRH Prince/ss, this would be a good indication of it. Harry's children just might be in the position that Beatrice and Eugenie are right now with not working for the "Firm" and there's been a lot of misconception about how they have the title but do not work for the "Firm". When Harry marries and he makes this request (if he does), it sets things as they're going to be in the future. Right now, no one sees Edward and Sophie's children as going into the "Firm" working for the monarchy.

The public opinion and popularity has absolutely nothing to do with titles and styles. Neither does being Diana's son. At the time of her death, she didn't hold any kind of a title in her own right so why would she be an influence on her son's title when he marries? Its just logical thinking.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Just to be clear:

Under the existing 1917 LPs Harry's children won't be born HRH but styled as the children of the younger son of a son of the monarch and thus Lord/Lady.

If the Queen lives another 10 years then they would be well aware of their titles and be very conscious of what the difference is between HRH and Lord/Lady in terms of expectations and may even ask grandpa Charles to allow them to remain as they are.

For them to be born HRH the Queen would have to issue specific LPs - as she did for Charlotte and the new baby Cambridge.

As for a title for Harry - probably a Dukedom. He may ask for an Earldom or even to remain a commoner so his wife would be Princess Henry but I suspect a Dukedom from the get-go.

York won't be available for who knows how long and when the new baby is born Andrew would be free to remarry without consent - e.g. maybe he has a young 20 something he hasn't made public and is going to marry when he is able to do so without anyone saying 'no'. Then he could have half a dozen sons all of whom would be in the line to inherit York.

 

[sndral]

With the announcement of Cambridge baby #3, I think it even more likely that Harry will follow Edward & Sophie's example and choose to not label his children as 'Royal,' since George will now have 2 younger siblings to assume Royal responsibiliies when the time comes.
The York daughters have taken a lot of heat through the years, I'm sure all of the family are aware of the negative press that the girls are subjected to (not saying they've been wise in some choices thus giving fuel to the fire the press has created about them.) I imagine Harry would prefer to protect his own children from that if possible. Assuming they are born while his grandmother is Queen the children will be titled as children of a Duke anyway, it would be pretty simple to announce when Charles becomes King that Harry's children will remain titled as they always have been. Moreover, if The Queen outlives Charles, Harry's children would never be Prince/Princesses (unless Harry himself inexplicably became King.)

 

[Countessmeout]

Edward is an earl and not duke NOT because

1. he is not a popular member
2. he wasn't a full time working member
3. was further from the throne
4. Edward wanted to be an earl

There is only one reason he is not a duke, and that is because his father is alive. It is public knowledge from when they got married that he was to be Duke of Edinburgh. That was the desire of his parents, likely of his dad, that his title pass on to Edward. Since having a double dukedome hasn't been done in generations, they put a hold on making him a duke. Instead they made him an earl, a title that will be paired with Duke of Edinburgh when the time comes.

The queen is very traditional. All of her sons would have been a Duke on marriage as has been done by the monarchs before her. The exception was made with Edward not due to popularity, his position in line, his lack of duties. But simply due to the title they wished to give him.

Harry will be duke. Even if he was the most hated royal on earth and was in military never doing duties, he would be duke. It has nothing to do with his mother and his popularity. It has to do with him being a male line grandson whose father will be king.

I find it also extremely morbid to suggest he'd wait for his Uncle to die. Yes, Edward is waiting for Philip, but it seems it was likely his parent's choice. Now if Andrew spoke his wish for his nephew to have the title, I guess it would be less creepy.

 

[American Observer7]

Harry may request that his children be born with the title of HRH. If Harry asks his grandmother to issue specific LP's my guess is she would not say no.