The Windsors and Europe


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wow! it would be absolutely wonderful if QE2 refused to visit Holland for those reasons.

historical grudges are awesome.
 
But seriously, I do not think the british queen holds any grudge, just an annoyance that things are done differently maybe. She was last here in 1988, for the William & Mary celebrations I believe.There was a nice banquet at Palace Het Loo and it all ended with firewoks and queen Elizabeth seemed in a very good mood.
The british court is very thoughtfull btw, an aquintance of mine played the british national anthem on his violin in the palace (he must have been 8 at that time) and received a portrait of Queen Elizabeth and the Duke of Edinburgh afterwards, I believe with their signatures on it.
 
People can make all he excuses they like as to why Elizabeth doesn’t attend other royal events but in reality there is no excuse. Lets look at some of those excuses:

She is an old woman: Yes, but she hasn’t always been old and even on her younger days never went to anything.

It’s protocol: What kind of protocol is it that stops a monarch attending events outside her country? Granted at one time the English were the most hated people on earth and their monarch was likely to be assassinated if they left the country, but those days are gone and it’s part of the job description to attend.

She is Queen of more than one country and has a heavy work load: Most of those countries have Governor Generals who do the work. Even in Scotland, the oldest kingdom of which she is queen only gets a week of her time. And consider this, Elizabeth has a month break over Christmas and New Year. She has another month break at Easter and a two-month break in the summer when she goes to Balmoral. During those four months she carries out no royal duties. During the rest of the year she stays at Windsor from Friday to Monday and again, carries out no duties over her four-day weekend. That leaves three days in the week for royal engagements. That means that there are only around 96 days in the year when royal engagements are carried out, and this has been her schedule throughout her reign.

One of the reasons I heard as to why she didn’t go to anything was because the British government would only allow her to go if she was given place of honour. Of course there was no way that was going to happen as the monarchs take their place according to how long they have reigned and throughout the years Elizabeth was well down the line. It’s true she attended King Baudioun’s funeral but I have heard that that was a mistake. The British government thought that with Baudioun out of the picture Elizabeth was now Europe’s longest reigning monarch and would have place of honour after the Belgian royal family but they forgot about Prince Rainier who had not only reigned longer than Elizabeth but had also reigned longer than Baudioun .

This all has to do with the belief held by the British government and by many English people that the Windsors are somehow superior to other royals. I have heard English people claim that the other royals are not “real royalty” and I have even heard it claimed that the other monarchs had their titles given to them by the British monarchy. This week the Norwegian royals visited Britain. Some of the newspapers reporting the visit used capital letters when referring to the British Queen, Prince or Duchess but lower case when referring to the Norwegian royals ie, king, queen and crown prince instead of King, Queen and Crown Prince. This is because in British eyes they are inferior to the Windsors.

Why they should regard them as superior is a mystery and I think the Windsors do regard themselves as being better. I did read one reason for this. It was suggested that they have to convince themselves they are better because, unlike the other royal families, they are not the rightful royal family. They also know that they are no way near as popular as the other royals. In Scotland Elizabeth has never enjoyed great popularity. This goes back to the day she was proclaimed as “Elizabeth the second”

She is only the second in England but the first in Scotland and all the other countries in which she is queen. There was a great outcry in Scotland when this happened and post boxes with EIIR on it were blown up, (today the monogram is never used in Scotland.) People would have forgiven this putting it down to bad advice but things were to get worse. On the day of her inauguration as Queen of Scots in the High Kirk of St. Giles in Edinburgh thousands lined the streets waiting to see her. I was told by a lady who was there that as the carriage came along the cheers sounded “strange” they rose up and then seemed to die in mid air changing to an “ohhh.” When the carriage passed by she saw what the reason was, Elizabeth was wearing an ordinary dress and a hat and coat. She hadn’t made any attempt to dress for the occasion. During the service the Honours of Scotland, the crown jewels, were presented to her. She was to touch the crown (she couldn’t wear it as only the Stuarts are entitled to wear the Scottish crown) but she didn’t even put her handbag down to do so. The next day the newspapers had only one headline “THAT BLOODY HANDBAG.” As she left the kirk it was noticeable that most of the crowd had disappeared in disgust. My great grandfather who had proudly placed her photo on the wall took it down and burnt it and as long as he lived he forbad the mention of her name in the house. From that day there has been a love/hate relationship with her in Scotland.

I’m sure the other monarchs must talk among themselves about Elizabeth’s absence but I’m sure they are better off without her. She would probably be a party pooper.
 
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Brilliantly put Iain and I was interested to read about her reception in Scotland. I think it is this 'mightier than thou' attitude that the Queen seems to wield over her cousins. On LBC radio today a woman said, "The Queen of Norway seems cheerful and always smiling - she looks lovely and she's not stuck up like our one" - the voice of the mob?
 
Sonja isn't universally loved in Norway, though. She's considered to be rather grand herself. So while she might be less "glacial" than EIIR, that doesn't mean Norwegians consider her the same way Brits do.
 
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I think it's a matter of personalities. Personally I expect Royalty to behave in a grand and majestic manner - but that doesn't mean being frosty-faced and awkward as QE2 sometimes appears to be.
 
I quite like my frosty faced Queen actually.
But I cannot stand the liberalism of Queen Beatrix.
 
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But I cannot stand the liberalism of Queen Beatrix.

Do you think she is liberal? I see her as a good Monarch. She's serious when she needs to be and the rest of the time, she isn't afraid to beam from ear to ear in her outrageous hats, waving, smiling and generally interacting with the people. I'm sure she can be very regal when she wants to be. Much like Queen Margrethe, Beatrix doesn't seem as stuffy as Elizabeth and she actually seems to enjoy herself not like Elizabeth who sometimes comes across as 'I'm so miserable. Why do I have to do this?'
 
BeatrixFan said:
Do you think she is liberal? I see her as a good Monarch. She's serious when she needs to be and the rest of the time, she isn't afraid to beam from ear to ear in her outrageous hats, waving, smiling and generally interacting with the people. I'm sure she can be very regal when she wants to be. Much like Queen Margrethe, Beatrix doesn't seem as stuffy as Elizabeth and she actually seems to enjoy herself not like Elizabeth who sometimes comes across as 'I'm so miserable. Why do I have to do this?'

Beatrix liberal? I would not dare to call her that way. I think that you're right when you say that she can be very regal when she wants to be, BeatrixFan. She is a lovely woman and I think she has a way better act with the people in our country than Queen Elizabeth has. But she always stays 'the Majesty' as my mother and I use to call it. :)

This turns out to be a great thread. I've always been asking myself what it was with Queen Elizabeth that she never showed up at weddings etc. It's a bit clarified now...
 
Lady Marmalade said:
Since everything is done in the sovereign's name and not the actual person, they have to remail apolitical. It is not for them to express or side with the Tories or Labour, or any other political party.

I thought the monarch is represenational of all people in your country and therefore should not be expressing publicly any political views as that is why you have your parliamentary system of government.

The monarch is not supposed to have politcal power of any kind or rule in any capacity, as he or she only reigns, and there is a difference.

And this is the key reason why the Queen cannot always "attend" different royal occasions in other European countries. She may only attend if the British Government decides it is "politically correct" for her to do so. If, for whatever reason, the Government is in a snit with, say, Spain, the Queen would be advised not to go.

The British Sovereign reigns, not does not rule. The Prime Minister exercises the royal perogative as the appointed representative of the party holding a majority (or coalition) in the House of Commons. Parliament is ultimately sovereign and the monarch must accept the advice of the Government at all times.
 
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Parliament is ultimately sovereign and the monarch must accept the advice of the Government at all
I disagree strongly there but that isn't what this is about. Parliament cannot stop the Queen going to a family wedding. She could pay the air-fare from her personal funds and be treated just the same as if the Government had paid for her to go. "Sorry Ma'am but you can't go to your cousin's wedding anniversary party 'cos we don't like their Prime Minister" - I can't see that going down well at all.
 
Well, the King and Queen of Spain boycotted Charles and Diana's wedding because they were going to embark on their Mediterranean honeymoon cruise from Gibraltar, so it's certainly possible that political considerations can override the desire of a monarch to attend a wedding of the extended European family.

On the other hand, I really doubt that the government has told the Queen not to go to European royal weddings and funerals because the government doesn't want to bother about all those nasty foreigners or something equally unlikely.
 
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Well, the King and Queen of Spain boycotted Charles and Diana's wedding

There was that wonderful quote from the Queen ;

"It's my son, it's my yacht and it's my territory"

One of her finer moments.
 
So much for international relations...
 
Charles and Diana did vacation with the Spanish Royals. There is a picture of them with the boys and the Spanish Royals sitting on some steps..very relaxed.

After last year's fiasco at his son's wedding, I think the heir to the Italian throne will be the last person the King of Spain invites to any family affair. :)
 
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I think the heir to the Italian throne will be the last person the King of Spain invites to any family affair
That was glorious. Smacked in the mouth and got caught by Queen Anne-Marie of the Hellenes!
 
The Duke of Aosta was hit in the mouth by his cousin, Prince Prince Emanuele, heir to the Italian throne.
 
Lady Marmalade said:
Charles and Diana did vacation with the Spanish Royals. There is a picture of them with the boys and the Spanish Royals sitting on some steps..very relaxed.
...

Actualy they spent several vacations with the spanish royals. Those pics on the stairs of the Palma de Maiorca's royal palace were taken in 1987. They also were there in 1988 and in 1990 (there're pics with Diana, Charles and the boys with spanish and greek royals in the royal yatch. Charles had is arm banded, injured in a polo match).
 
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The government wouldn't let EIIR attend the celebrations in Iran because of the political and security situation, and she was banned from going to Anne-Marie's wedding in 1964 for the same reasons, so yes, the government can stand in her way. She cannot oppose the government -- ever -- for any reasons.
 
Lady Marmalade said:
Charles and Diana did vacation with the Spanish Royals. There is a picture of them with the boys and the Spanish Royals sitting on some steps..very relaxed.

I think the wedding boycott was simply because of the use of Gibraltar for the honeymoon - nothing longer-term than that. If memory serves, royal correspondents went to some lengths at the time to assure people that this wasn't a personal snub and that the Spanish and British royal families were very good friends, but it was a political response to what was seen as an unnecessary provocation.
 
BeatrixFan said:
That was glorious. Smacked in the mouth and got caught by Queen Anne-Marie of the Hellenes!
One of my favourite royal stories! punch up just like at some bogan family wedding!:D
 
Princejohnny25 said:
I think King Baudin was an exeption. Wasnt she good friends with the late King or something. Or maybe she respected him much more than any other soverign. I think she went to that funeral for personal reasons and broke protocal.

I totally agree with you :) The King Baudouin Ier was the longest reign monarch of the Europe before he died... After that, It was to the Prince Rainier III... and right now, it is HM Elizabeth II!
That is why HM Elizabeth II wanted to pay tribune hommage to the King Baudouin Ier, just for personal reasons and no protocal at all (it was very very exception and rare) As I am belgian, I remembered that Elizabeth II was sitting on 3rd or 4rh row behind the Royal Belgian Family and the others Royal European (included the Prince Rainier III he was also there) in the Church. You know the Belgians were very very touched and unexpected by her unusual arrival for the King Baudouin's funeral.

I have some pics of her but I will search... :)
Enclosed you hereby find the pictures of the Funeral... Almost of Belgians were very very sad of losing his lovely and most respect King Baudouin Ier.

Kindly Regards,

http://i1.tinypic.com/n2zcm0.jpg
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http://i1.tinypic.com/n2zeau.jpg
 
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BeatrixFan said:
Do you think she is liberal? I see her as a good Monarch. She's serious when she needs to be and the rest of the time, she isn't afraid to beam from ear to ear in her outrageous hats, waving, smiling and generally interacting with the people. I'm sure she can be very regal when she wants to be. Much like Queen Margrethe, Beatrix doesn't seem as stuffy as Elizabeth and she actually seems to enjoy herself not like Elizabeth who sometimes comes across as 'I'm so miserable. Why do I have to do this?'

The Queen Beatrix is a wonderful and very human person, very close to the Dutch people, as an example, I watched on the TV, The Queen Beatrix has served herself some coffees to the elder people!! She is very caring of people! ;)
 
Princejohnny25 said:
I think King Baudin was an exeption. Wasnt she good friends with the late King or something. Or maybe she respected him much more than any other soverign. I think she went to that funeral for personal reasons and broke protocal.

As I promise to posted several pictures that Elizabeth II attented to the funeral of our lovely King Baudouin Ier of the Belgians. :eek:
The Queen Elizabeth II was in the second row beside the Baudouin's coffin.
I think It was the last funeral that the Queen Elizabeth II attented outside Britain.

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Thank you The Queen Elizabeth II for coming to the funeral of our lovely King Baudouin Ier, the belgians have really appreciated and touched by the unusual coming of Elizabeth II :eek:

Kindly Regards,
 
EIIR's own advisers have stated she had to be forced to attend the funeral. She was, according to them, planning to send Charles, but her advisers claimed that, because she was on holiday, it would look churlish of her not to attend herself. No one connected to EIIR has ever said she went because she wanted to; they've always said she went because she was told it would look bad. That doesn't speak of a special relationship between the two to me. But then again, EIIR is criticized by her own family members and lifelong friends for her reactions to death, so it's not surprising. Mountbatten's daughters have criticized her for never actually saying to them that she was sorry for the loss of their father, though she wrote a six-page letter when one of them lost a dog.
 
Why has Queen Elizabeth II never attended Weddings/Funerals Abroad?

As many guest lists from all over the years indicate, with the exception of the late Belgian King's Funeral, Queen Elizabeth II has never attended any such event. Has this issue ever been discussed by any of her biographers, or any other reason for this 'policy?'
 
The Queen's appointments and social calendar are arranged well over a year in advance. Funerals generally aren't. It would be difficult for the Queen to drop a scheduled engagement or dissapoint dignitaries to attend a funeral. Therefore she generally makes use of a family member ensuring they earn their keep.
 
qui mal y pense said:
The Queen's appointments and social calendar are arranged well over a year in advance. Funerals generally aren't. It would be difficult for the Queen to drop a scheduled engagement or dissapoint dignitaries to attend a funeral. Therefore she generally makes use of a family member ensuring they earn their keep.
That could hardly be a reason, All Heads of States social calendar are arranged well over a year in advance and they attend those occasions. Not to mention, that wedding are planned quite a long time ahead.
 
When someone important dies, many head of states, presidents, royals cancel previous appts to assist. Even prince Charles changed his wedding day in order to attend the Pope's funeral. So I dont think that is a reason.
 
Well, it's a reason, just not all that convincing a reason. She doesn't tend to go to weddings either, even though there's a longer lead time and presumably her engagements could be rearranged. Yet European and Asian heads of state have shown up to British royal weddings.

Perhaps she's still punishing them for boycotting Princess Margaret's wedding to a mere commoner, but that would be a long time to hold a grudge.
 
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