The Windsors and Europe

[Kitty1224]

By now, in the present day and age, the concept of being "related" to all the royal houses in Europe is really stretching it. So and so's great grandmother was Queen Victoria just like the other so and so's is. To be honest, how many people count their great grandmother's other descendants children as "family"?

The interactions between the House of Windsor and European royal houses now are basically for political reasons or international diplomacy more than family visiting family back and forth. I agree with you, PetticoatLane, that the first and foremost interactions should pertain to "home" as in the UK and Commonwealth rather than the royal houses of Europe that may have a very distant connection family wise.

Don't forget Brexit.

 

[Florestane]

THANK YOU!! I totally forgot about Brexit. I agree with you that the Gov't definitely wants the British royals to form a relationship with many of the European royals like Norway for example. I think it will happen sooner than later. I just have a problem with the British royals thinking they may be better than all the other European, Spanish, Japan, Middle East monarchies because they are the most well known and influential.

Who says they think they're better? Nobody from the BRF has ever said that to my knowledge. Just because they don't go to everything (and I disagree with some people about how much that happens but anyway...) doesn't mean they think they're better. I'm a teacher, there are many people who are teachers I don't mix with, it doesn't mean I think I'm better.

 

[Lee-Z]

I just have a problem with the British royals thinking they may be better than all the other European, Spanish, Japan, Middle East monarchies because they are the most well known and influential.

What evidence is there that the British royals themselves actually think that (apart from what stories the media thinks up)

 

[Osipi]

Don't forget Brexit.

Brexit would be covered under international diplomacy which I did mention.

 

[wyevale]

Personally I think the last war [WWll] had a great deal to do with this, partially because that war [and its aftermath] created a long period when 'close relations', and visits were impossible, as well as 'family' being on opposing sides. Also because [within the UK], HUGE amounts of geographical disruption took place. Often parts of a family moved apart from other family, and never re-forged those bonds. Cities were blown apart, and afterwards people moved to 'new towns' and [often] those tight communities and family bonds were not re-created.

Obviously the BRF in the UK was not directly affected in this way, but the 'its a NEW World' ethos that came with the post war mentality was pervasive in ALL Social groups.

 

[Kitty1224]

What evidence is there that the British royals themselves actually think that (apart from what stories the media thinks up)

I personally think they do. With Brexit and the world changing it would be good to have close relationships.

 

[Rudolph]

The Spanish government didn’t allow the Queen to attend QEII diamond jubilee because of tensions over Gibraltar.

At the end of the day we’re talking about constitutional monarchy. Royals go where their governments tell them to go.

 

[Osipi]

This is true. If there were close friendships and visits between the different royal houses (no matter where they are), it would be done on private time and most certainly not reported in the media. What we, the public sees, is their interactions on a public, working basis complete with photo ops.

 

[tommy100]

Exactly! We know there haven't been many official visits from the UK to European Monarchies but then by convention the Queen only visits each country once during a Head of State's tenure - so having visited most of them she wasn't expected to do so again. Equally the UK Governments focus has been on links in Middle East, USA, Canada and Eastern Europe. Part of this could well be IMO that until Brexit the UK could rely on close relations with European countries through the EU so why spend time and money sending the RF to countries where there are already close links and ongoing issues can be taken care of by the EU. Of course now that has changed and there has been a refocus.

What we don't know is how often Royals visit each other. When Charles visited Sweden the King said Silvia had recently made a private visit to Highgrove, so the truth is we don't know at all how often they see each other in private.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

wyevale, I believe also that the Second World War had a lot to do with this. In 1947 Prince Philip's sisters could not even attend their brother Philip's wedding to Princess Elizabeth.

 

[Pranter]

Personally I think the last war [WWll] had a great deal to do with this, partially because that war [and its aftermath] created a long period when 'close relations', and visits were impossible, as well as 'family' being on opposing sides. Also because [within the UK], HUGE amounts of geographical disruption took place. Often parts of a family moved apart from other family, and never re-forged those bonds. Cities were blown apart, and afterwards people moved to 'new towns' and [often] those tight communities and family bonds were not re-created.

Obviously the BRF in the UK was not directly affected in this way, but the 'its a NEW World' ethos that came with the post war mentality was pervasive in ALL Social groups.

Yes I agree...the first war started the ball going, the second finished things off.


LaRae

 

[Kitty1224]

Yes I agree...the first war started the ball going, the second finished things off.


LaRae

Well things can be left in the past and move to a new direction. My opinion.

 

[Osipi]

Well things can be left in the past and move to a new direction. My opinion.

Whatever direction the future takes, it will be at the behest of the government. Weddings and funerals that are a state occasion will send a representative from the House of Windsor and the same with any state event held in the UK. We cannot judge relationships when we see these people at official, state or diplomatic events.

Personal friendships and connections are just that. Personal and kept out of the public mainstream. For example, Queen Margrethe of Denmark often pops over to London to do Christmas shopping and will stop in for tea with Queen Elizabeth but it will not be made public. Many foreign royals interact with the Queen because of an interest in horse breeding and racing and sometimes attend Ascot Week. The Queen and Philip are also known to invite their personal friends to come and stay at Balmoral while they're in the summer months but again, that is never made public.

 

[Pranter]

Well things can be left in the past and move to a new direction. My opinion.

New direction sure..that's been the case since WW2 . It will never be as it was when almost every single European house was connected to Queen Victoria. We will never seen that type of tie again.



LaRae

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The perception that the Windsors have distanced themselves from the continental royals is greatly exaggerated IMHO.

As I mentioned in the "How the Royal Houses compare/contrast" forum, Prince Charles attended Haakon's, Philippe's, Willem-Alexander's, Felipe's and even Infanta Elena's weddings. He also attended the funeral of Prince Claus. It was only after 2005 that the PoW stopped attending royal events in the continent for some unknown reason.

[...]

Heu, the Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall were at the festivies and the Investiture of the Dutch King in 2013.

 

[Queen Claude]

Also the British Royals Family had relationships with other European royals because they were actually related to other royal houses. British royals visited their relatives in Denmark, Rumpenheim and other locations, and European royals visited their British family members at Balmoral, Windsor and Osborne House. Edward VII spent time in Denmark, Germany, Russia and other places because he was visiting his and his wife's relatives, however George VI, Charles and William married Brits, so these days William hangs out in Bucklebury with his wife's family, and Charles spends time in Scotland which has been a BRF bolthole since Victoria's time. Furthermore, even though George V and Elizabeth II spouses were born into non-British royal houses, their spouses were both pretty much naturalized Brits.

Also Charles is reportedly chummy with a couple of royals, namely Princess Margareta of Romania and King Constantine of Greece, but neither are from reigning houses.

 

[irish_royalist]

Basically I think we're all saying that we have no idea who likes whom, and who thinks they're better than whom. None of us have much idea who sees who when and for what reason as so little of it is reported.
For those of you who like articles which are rather tongue-in-cheek, I found this recently in the Guardian (not known for it's love of the BRF!) :

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/apr/05/royal-wedding-europe-royalty-invited

 

[Queen Claude]

Well things can be left in the past and move to a new direction. My opinion.

Royals hanging out with each other is actually an example of something that's been left in the past.

 

[Tarlita]

I view the European royals as an exclusive private club. They see each other often enough at weddings, christenings etc. Sophie and Edward have attended nearly every crown prince/and princess wedding since at least 2004. This unofficial club is important to all royals. They can let their guard down and know that no one among them would reveal any part of a conversation. William and Kate are slowly getting to know the younger royal. Crown Princess Mary was seated next to Prince Charles at King Willems inauguration dinner at the Rjiks museum. So they had the chance to have a nice little chat.
Queen Margrethe is a third cousin to Queen Elizabeth. I have read on these forums years ago that the two queens catch up for lunch when Queen Margrethe of Denmark comes over to London to do her xmas shopping. Osipi is quite right about that. Queen Margrethe's sister Anne Marie is Queen of Greece. King Constantine II of Greece's sister is Queen Sofia of Spain. Now dowager.
Fred and Mary of Denmark often privately visit with Norway and Sweden's crown Prince couples.

 

[Curryong]

Not so that royals hanging out together is a thing of the past. The Scandinavian royals are actually great friends with each other and spend both private time in each other's countries and also join in on public occasions, celebrations of birthdays for example.

And I've seen group photos of all the continental heirs/monarchs and their spouses joining together for outings on occasions and getting on like a house on fire. Felipe, Leti, Philippe, Mathilde, Frederik, Mary, Willem, Maxima etc. Outside shots, like they'd all been for a walk together on one or two of them. No BRF reps there though, perhaps because of the age disparities, or refusal of any invitation, or perhaps weren't invited.

And an occasional lunch in London and a three day tour by the Cambridges of Scandi countries (and Harry's two days in Denmark) isn't evidence IMO of any strong bonding between the BRF and others. When I see how warm and close other royal families are with each other I just think it's very sad that for various reason the BRF has allowed ties to fray.

 

[Mbruno]

I view the European royals as an exclusive private club. They see each other often enough at weddings, christenings etc. Sophie and Edward have attended nearly every crown prince/and princess wedding since at least 2004. This unofficial club is important to all royals. They can let their guard down and know that no one among them would reveal any part of a conversation. William and Kate are slowly getting to know the younger royal. Crown Princess Mary was seated next to Prince Charles at King Willems inauguration dinner at the Rjiks museum. So they had the chance to have a nice little chat.
Queen Margrethe is a third cousin to Queen Elizabeth. I have read on these forums years ago that the two queens catch up for lunch when Queen Margrethe of Denmark comes over to London to do her xmas shopping. Osipi is quite right about that. Queen Margrethe's sister Anne Marie is Queen of Greece. King Constantine II of Greece's sister is Queen Sofia of Spain. Now dowager.
Fred and Mary of Denmark often privately visit with Norway and Sweden's crown Prince couples.

At least 3 matches between the British and Swedish royal families have been the object of speculation over the past 90 years or so: Ingrid and the future Edward VIII. Carl Gustaf and Anne, and, of course, William and Madeleine. In all 3 cases, either one side or both showed no interest. I’m afraid the era of inter-dynastic marriages is gone for good.

 

[yvr girl]

https://dailym.ai/2LpWrQt
Does anyone think the European royals are miffed? It wouldn't surprise me if the extended Windsor clan was hurt by being left off the guest list.

 

[royal rob]

I’m sure they couldn’t care less

 

[Mirabel]

https://dailym.ai/2LpWrQt
Does anyone think the European royals are miffed? It wouldn't surprise me if the extended Windsor clan was hurt by being left off the guest list.

I still don't see why they were excluded, or the rest of the Windsors.
There was plenty of room, and I agree with the commentator who mentioned that the guest list had many celebrities with very tenuous connections to Harry or Meghan.
It just seemed odd.

 

[Curbside]

I'm guessing they don't care.

The Daily Mail will take the smallest kernel of a story and turn them into a few hundred word articles with photos of the same scene or event, in a series, in order to fill up the page and generate clicks. I think they wrote about five articles on the same garden party yesterday. They are simply trying to milk the royal wedding for all it's worth.

 

[Mbruno]

https://dailym.ai/2LpWrQt
Does anyone think the European royals are miffed.

I very much doubt it. I think they realize iit was a private wedding and that they are not personal friends either of the bride or the groom.

For starters, if members of foreign ruling royal houses had been invited, they would have had to be seated in the Quire, where there was already barely room for the British Royal Family properly and the bride’s and groom’s guests.

 

[Marengo]

There was enough space for them in the Quire during the wedding of the Earl of Wessex.

Anyway, the same article mentions the author's idea of the Duchess of Sussex running for US president. So we know what the credibility of this article must be, in case there was still any doubt about the DM.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

There was enough space for them in the Quire during the wedding of the Earl of Wessex.

Anyway, the same article mentions the author's idea of the Duchess of Sussex running for US president. So we know what the credibility of this article must be, in case there was still any doubt about the DM.

The BRF has grown since Edward and Sophie married though. People who were teenagers are now grown and married, children who were too small or not yet born are now grown or old enough to attend. And the only person no longer here is the Queen Mother.

 

[Empress Merel]

? ?

What a ridiculous article. As lovely as the wedding of Harry and Meghan was, Harry's position in the line of succession ensured that this wedding wasn't of importance to foreign royals (besides exposure) in the way William and Kate's wedding was, considering they'll be King and Queen Consort with many of their Royal counterparts also being or becoming the sovereigns. Not to mention Edward and Sophie are in the same age bracket as the continentals and have quite a good relationship.

And what were they gonna do? Invite the Kings and Queens from the Netherlands, Belgium and Spain for the 6th in line they barely actually know? Get a grip Daily Mail.

 

[Madame Verseau]

Not sure that this is the right thread, but apparently some European royals were not happy they didn't get an invite:

European royals very miffed at Harry and Meghan Royal Wedding snub | Daily Mail Online

The wedding was a state or semi state occasion and Harry is not a future King. What gives? Are they upset that a lot of Hollywood stars were invited and they weren't? The only royal Harry knows well is Prince Sessio of Lesotho. Will Harry and Meghan have to do diplomatic visits to smooth things over?