The Spencer Family, Ancestry and Althorp 1: Ending Aug. 2023

[Mirabel]

I have no idea how frequently or infrequently Diana's family visit her grave, and neither do you I'm sure.

If it occurred frequently, we'd hear about it, I have no doubt whatsoever.

In any case, that's not really the point. You'd have had her entombed as some sort of hollywood star? To become some sort of tourist attraction? With all due respect, I fail to see the dignity in that myself. Especially in this day and age.

And why should Diana, a member of the royal family at the time of her death, but not a royal herself, been burried amongst Britain's King's and Queen's when not even the Queen's father, uncle, grandfather, great grandfather and great great grandmother are burried in such a setting. And many others before them too I might add.

The Abbey is for notable people, not just for Queens and Kings.

She was a remarkable and complex woman, and she died much too young in the most tragic of circumstances, but unlike in life, Diana's mortal shell was accorded in death the dignity of peace and tranquility. I admire the decision to have burried her away from public curiosity and to have put an end to the circus in the best way her family thought reasonable.

We'll have to agree to disagree; what you see as peaceful and dignified, I see as lonely and neglected. What's done is done, but I still think Diana herself would have preferred a different venue.

 

[Madame Royale]

What's done is done, but I still think Diana herself would have preferred a different venue.

Agreed, what's done is done. However I'm in no position to say I know what the thoughts of a deceased person were some 15 years ago...

Furthermore, in her will Diana would have stated where she wished to have been burried. If she did not do that, then the nature of her internment then lies with family. She wasn't a royal and wasn't married so naturally that decision then rested between her mother and siblings.

Either Diana wished to be burried at Althorp (least mentioned it ?) or her family thought it the most appropriate place. I've wondered if perhaps her family wanted her burried there, in a sense, so as to protect her in death, where perhaps they may feel as though they failed too in life. Who know's, I don't!

 

[Zonk]

Why would we know the frequency of visits to Diana's grave? Personally I think that was one of the reasons that they picked the island on the estate so that they can grieve privately. With that in mind, I am reminded of Caroline Kennedy who choose to bury her brother, the late John F. Kennedy Jr. at sea. She didn't want his grave to become a site for fans.

To be honest, I am very dismayed that in the time of realtiy tv and instant news on the internet, we all expect to know everything about anyone who has a public identity (whether it be long term or Andy Warhol's 15 minutes of fame). Isn't anyone entitled to privacy at all? Especially when grieving?

 

[Madame Royale]

I completely agree, Zonk.

 

[Mirabel]

Why would we know the frequency of visits to Diana's grave?

Didn't we know when William took Kate there?

William lives his life in a fishbowl; the only privacy he gets is behind palace walls. If he was a frequent visitor to the gravesite, I think we would know. JMO.

 

[Zonk]

We knew because a Palace source or something like that told us. But his actions were not surprising....what new groom and/or bride whose parents are no longer with the living make such a pilgrimage the day after a life changing occasion? And this information was shared with the general public because people are interested in William, Catherine (and Harry) as well as Diana It makes perfect sense to me.

Yes, William lives his life in fishbowl when he is out in public but when he is not...do we know what he (or any member of the BRF) is doing 24/? What's he doing now? Again, unless he is living a Big Brother lifestyle and he has cameras on him 24/7 and it can be viewed by the public on television...we don't know what he does? In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if William and Harry haven't made the trip to the island on Diana's birthday's and/or Mother's Day. Maybe not all of them since she died but a couple. Are we privy to ALL the goings on at Althrop? I would imagine that Harry and William get plenty of privacy on the estate. Just as William has privacy in Wales. We just don't know about it because its none of our business.

 

[LadyKatherineGrey]

I also find the other less obvious connections far more interesting as well, like the one between Diana and Charles stemming from the Queen Mother back to the 3rd Duke of Devonshire from memory. And the double connection of Sarah Ferguson to the mutual ancestor with Camilla. It seems Camilla's family has a long heritage of moving intimately in royal circles. Thanks again for the Hudson connection.

 

[PrincessKaimi]

Ah, those blood lines are fascinating. The Mary Tudor line managed to marry off quite a few daughters to titled persons.

 

[Sangre_Real016]

hi all, i am practically new here..

i also want to share some information regarding the ancestry of Lady Diana, Princess of Wales..

as we all know, Diana is a descendant of King James II through an illegitimate line from his relationship with Arabella Churchill, sister to the great Duke of Marlborough..

King James II of England>>> Henrietta Fitz-James, Countess of Newcastle >>> James Waldergrave, 1st Earl Waldergrave >>> James Waldergrave, 2nd Earl Waldergrave >>> Lady Anna Horatia Waldergrave >>> Sir Horace Seymour >>> Adelaide Horatia Seymour, Countess Spencer >>> Charles Spencer, 6th Earl Spencer >>> Albert Spencer, 7th Earl Spencer >>> John Spencer, 8th Earl Spencer >>> Lady Diana, Princess of Wales

Diana shares this line with the current Dukes of Alba making the current title bearer, Cayenata Fitz-James Stuart, 18th Duchess of Alba a distant relative as Diana's ancestor Henrietta Fitz-James is the sister of James Fitz-James, 1st Duke of Berwick..

also through this line, Diana is a direct descendant of William the Conqueror through a illegitimate yet unbroken line which as follows..

King William I "The Conqueror" >>> King Henry I of England >>> Mathilde, Holy Roman Empress >>> King Henry II of England >>> King John I of England >>> King Henry III of England >>> King Edward I of England >>> King Edward II of England >>> King Edward III of England >>> Lionel of Antwerp, 1st Duke of Clarence >>> Philippa Plantagenet, 5th Countess of Ulster >>> Roger de Mortimer, 4th earl of March >>> Anne de Mortimer, Countess of Cambridge >>> King Edward IV of England >>> Elizabeth of York >>> Margaret Tudor >>> King James V of Scotland >>> Mary, Queen of Scots >>> James IV and I of Scotland and England >>> King Charles I of England >>> King James II of England >>> Henrietta Fitz-James, Countess of Newcastle >>> James Waldergrave, 1st Earl Waldergrave >>> James Waldergrave, 2nd Earl Waldergrave >>> Lady Anna Horatia Waldergrave >>> Sir Horace Seymour >>> Adelaide Horatia Seymour, Countess Spencer >>> Charles Spencer, 6th Earl Spencer >>> Albert Spencer, 7th Earl Spencer >>> John Spencer, 8th Earl Spencer >>> Lady Diana, Princess of Wales

also, most people tend to connect Diana's royal bloodline through the illegitimate line which she descends, but people must also know that Diana descended through a legitimate yet morganatic line of Frederick V, Elector Palatine and King of Bohemia who was also apparently the father of Sophia of Hanover, the direct ancestor of the current British Royal Family..

here is the line..

Frederick V, Elector Palatine and King of Bohemia (married Princess Elizabeth of Scotland and England, daughter of King James IV and I of Scotland and England) >>> Charles I Louis, Elector Palatine >>> Karoline von der Pfalz, Duchess of Schomberg >>> Lady Federica Schomberg >>> Lady Caroline D'arcy >>> Lady Louisa Kerr >>> Charles Lennox, 4th Duke of Richmond >>> Charles Gordon-Lennox, 5th Duke of Richmond >>> Lady Cecilia Catherine Gordon-Lennox, Countess of Lucan >>> Rosalind Bingham, Duchess of Abercorn >>> Cynthia Hamilton, Countess Spencer >>> John Spencer, 8th Earl Spencer >>> Lady Diana, Princess of Wales

now, base on this bloodline, we can say that Diana indeed is a direct descendant from William the Conqueror in both male (illegitimate) and female (morganatic) line.. it is also a fun fact that if Prince William, Duke of Cambridge is to become king and uses his first given name as his regnal name, he would be known as King William V of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and the Commonwealth Realms.

with such line, we can conclude that Diana descended from both children of King James IV and I of Scotland and England, meaning Diana has more Stuart bloodline than Prince Charles considering that Charles only possess Stuart bloodline through the female line.. also, Charles I Louis' granddaughter, Frederica Mildmay, Countess of Mértola was the most senior descendant of King James IV and I of Scotland and England to be Protestant via cognatic primogeniture but was passed over for Sophia of Hanover as heir to the British Throne..

also, Diana is a direct descendant of the House of Hanover through an unbroken line.. yes, most people only associate Diana with the Stuarts when in fact, she is also a direct descendant of the Hanover.. Diana's great-great-great-great grand mother is the half sister of King George I of Great Britain, son of Sophia, Electress of Hanover.. here is the line..

Ernest Augustus, Elector of Brunswick-Lüneburg >>> Sophia von Platen und Hallermund, Countess of Leinster and Darlington >>> Mary Sophia von Kielmansegg, Viscountess Howe >>> Richard Howe, 1st Earl Howe >>> Sophia Charlotte Howe, Baroness Howe >>> Richard William Penn Curzon-Howe, 1st Earl Howe (Second Creation) >>> Lady Mary Anna Curzon-Howe >>> James Albert Edward Hamilton, 3rd Duke of Abercorn >>> Cynthia Hamilton, Countess Spencer >>> John Spencer, 8th Earl Spencer >>> Lady Diana, Princess of Wales

Diana is also a direct descendant of powerful Italian Noble families such as that of the House of Sforza, who ruled as the Dukes of Milan and the House of Medici who ruled as the Grand Dukes of Tuscany.. she is also a direct descendant of the legendary Caterina Sforza, Countess of Forlì through an unbroken bloodline..

Muzio Sforza >>> Francesco I Sforza, Duke of Milan >>> Galeazzo Sforza, Duke of Milan >>> Caterina Sforza, Countess of Forlì >>> Lodovico de' Medici >>> Cosimo I de' Medici, Grand Duke of Tuscany >>> Francesco I de' Medici, Grand Duke of Tuscany >>> Marie de' Medici, Queen of France >>> Henrietta Maria of France, Queen of England >>> King Charles II of England >>> Charles Lennox, 1st Duke of Richmond >>> Charles Lennox, 2nd Duke of Richmond >>> Lord George Lennox >>> Charles Lennox, 4th Duke of Richmond >>> Charles Gordon-Lennox, 5th Duke of Richmond >>> Lady Cecilia Catherine Gordon-Lennox, Countess of Lucan >>> Rosalind Bingham, Duchess of Abercorn >>> Cynthia Hamilton, Countess Spencer >>> John Spencer, 8th Earl Spencer >>> Lady Diana, Princess of Wales

Diana also descended from the House of Toledo which were the original Dukes of Alba before the title went to the House of FitzJames as the wife of Cosimo I de' Medici was the granddaughter of Fadrique Álvarez de Toledo, 2nd Duke of Alba..

García Álvarez de Toledo, 1st Duke of Alba >>> Fadrique Álvarez de Toledo, 2nd Duke of Alba >>> Pedro Álvarez de Toledo, 2nd Marquis of Villafranca >>> Eleanor of Toledo >>> Francesco I de' Medici, Grand Duke of Tuscany >>> Marie de' Medici, Queen of France >>> Henrietta Maria of France, Queen of England >>> King Charles II of England >>> Charles Lennox, 1st Duke of Richmond >>> Charles Lennox, 2nd Duke of Richmond >>> Lord George Lennox >>> Charles Lennox, 4th Duke of Richmond >>> Charles Gordon-Lennox, 5th Duke of Richmond >>> Lady Cecilia Catherine Gordon-Lennox, Countess of Lucan >>> Rosalind Bingham, Duchess of Abercorn >>> Cynthia Hamilton, Countess Spencer >>> John Spencer, 8th Earl Spencer >>> Lady Diana, Princess of Wales

we can conclude that Diana is also a distant relative of the current of Dukes of Medina Sidonia which descended from the line of the Marquises of Villafranca.. José María Álvarez de Toledo, 15th Duke of Medina Sidonia was originally the 11th Marquis of Villafranca.. one notable member was Luisa Isabel Álvarez de Toledo, 21st Duchess of Medina Sidonia who was known as "The Red Duchess"..

in short, Diana is not just a member of one of Britain's oldest and foremost aristocratic families, the Spencers who now holds the titles of Earl Spencer and Duke of Marlborough, she is also bound by blood to Europe's greatest Royal and Noble Houses such as the House of Normandy (from William the Conqueror), House of Plantagenet (from Mathilde, Holy Roman Empress), House of Tudor (from Mary Tudor), House of Stuart (from James IV and I of Scotland and England), House of House of Wittelsbach (from Frederick V, Elector Palatine and King of Bohemia), House of Bourbon (from Henrietta Maria of France), House of Hanover (from Ernest Augustus, Elector of Brunswick-Lüneburg), House of Medici (from Cosimo I de' Medici, Grand Duke of Tuscany), House of Sforza (from Francesco I Sforza, Duke of Milan) and a distant relative of the House of FitzJames (Dukes of Berwick) and House of Toledo (Dukes of Medina Sidonia)..

knowing this makes me happy that Diana returned the direct Stuart bloodline to the Royal Family.. also, once Prince William ascends the throne, he would be the first monarch in 300 years to have descended to all past kings of England..

 

[Sangre_Real016]

also, if i am not mistaken Diana's famous ancestor John Churchill, 1st Duke of Marlborough was also created by Joseph I, Holy Roman Emperor as a sovereign prince as the Prince of Mindelheim.. this would make his heirs princes and princesses with the style of Serene Highness which would make them of equal marriage to any member of any Royal House.. but sadly, John Churchill died without any male heir, as a the empire operate via Salic Law which prevented female succession despite the motion of the King of Prussia, through his representative the Prince of Anhalt-Dassau, that the title should descend successively to all the heirs of Marlborough’s body but then, most of the princes of the empire refused.. the title of Duke of Marlborough was later inherited by John's eldest daughter Henrietta Godolphin, 2nd Duchess of Marlborough and later by Charles Spencer, 3rd Duke of Marlborough, son of John Churchill's second eldest daughter Anne Spencer, Countess of Sunderland.. if the King of Prussia's motion was approved, then the family's imperial titles would have been passed down even through the female line.. Anne Spencer, Countess of Sunderland, who is also in her own right Princess Anne Churchill of Mindelheim, would have passed on her imperial titles to her children and Diana as Anne's great-great-great-great-great-great granddaughter would have been Princess Diana Spencer of Mindelheim.. well, that is the theory, but i may be mistaken..

also, i think that even if the Churchill-Spencer family's imperial titles were passed down through the female line, they may have also relinquished it during the anti-German sentiment during World War I much like what the Battenbergs did..

 

[NGalitzine]

also, i think that even if the Churchill-Spencer family's imperial titles were passed down through the female line, they may have also relinquished it during the anti-German sentiment during World War I much like what the Battenbergs did..

The use of foregn royal or noble titles requires approval by Royal Warrant.

 

[Sangre_Real016]

The use of foregn royal or noble titles requires approval by Royal Warrant.

i believe Queen Anne approved of Churchill's imperial titles.. in fact, Churchill is the only British citizen to have ever given not just a foreign title like that of the Duke of Wellington, but an actual state and served as its sovereign..

 

[Carolast]

I read somewhere that Diana was also related to former u.s. secretary Colin Powell. I wish I could remember the link.

Ancestry of Colin Powell

William Addams Reitwiesner recently died, but his website is still up.

 

[expat]

I am not sure about Colin Powell being related to Diana, but as she is descended from a Miss Jobs, an American, it could be from there. Incidentally, most of the Spencer money came from her so why not!

 

[Lenora]

Recently,Earl Spencer gave an interview to an American newspaper,basically he talked about Althorp as a historical value.
Patricia Sheridan's Breakfast With ... Charles, the ninth Earl Spencer

 

[Bella]

Recently,Earl Spencer gave an interview to an American newspaper,basically he talked about Althorp as a historical value.
Patricia Sheridan's Breakfast With ... Charles, the ninth Earl Spencer

Very nice article. Probably one of the best I've read with the Earl. Thank you for the link.

 

[Artemisia]

Lady Raine Spencer, stepmother of the late Diana, Princess of Wales took part in the concert "Icons of Russian Ballet" dedicated to Anna Pavlova in London.
- Picture

I wasn't sure where to post news about Raine; my apologies if this is the wrong thread.

 

[Mermaid1962]

The connections between the Royal Family and the Spencers goes back literally hundreds of years, although Diana was the first Spencer to marry into the Royal Family.

anne with sarah? It's the first time that the royal family and the spencer are toghether without william and harry?

 

[corazon]

The connections between the Royal Family and the Spencers goes back literally hundreds of years, although Diana was the first Spencer to marry into the Royal Family.

yes, of course, diana was in line with harles II, but sine diana death only we can see the spencer and windsor together with william and harry. Diana's funeral, diana's fountain diana's 10 anniversary and william's wedding. I think in some birtdays of the boys too but never see the spencer and windsor togheter without william or harry

 

[Mariana Pazza]

Really, the Spencers are the most illustrious family from British aristocracy, they descend directly of all kings and queens of England who left descendants, except from the Windsor Kings ("Windsor" are actually the Saxe Coburgh Gotha, originally from a german principality). Diana's grandmother Ruth Roche, Baroness Fermoy was the closest friend of the Queen Mother, and her and the Queen were present in Frances and the 8th Earl Spencer Wedding.The Queen is Godmother Diana's brother Lord Spencer.
I've found another pics from Lady Sarah Mccorquodale and Princess Anne in that same event and another pics of her that shows Lady Sarah's interests are those typical from aristocracy, as horses and huntings:
http://medias.photodeck.com/931edafc-6457-11e1-846c-1bd841cd68e0/N59_1165_xlarge.jpg
http://medias.photodeck.com/f4792a1e-6457-11e1-a8d5-aba196a73acb/N59_1179_xlarge.jpg
http://medias.photodeck.com/d91bf27e-6457-11e1-afd2-fd8a2ee2d7fd/N59_1168_xlarge.jpg
http://medias.photodeck.com/25bc5ede-6458-11e1-a331-5f207ed12c1c/N59_1171_xlarge.jpg
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000hpGl7LHoatY/s/650/Belvoir-Hose-12Feb11-93.jpg
http://medias.photodeck.com/cf8ee6c...77d1b519/Belvoir-harby-31Dec12-083_xlarge.jpg
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000ZbWqGA5WQ5U/s/650/Belvoir-Goadby-Marwood-5Mar11-9.jpg
http://medias.photodeck.com/58a032c...3e0884a3/Belvoir-harby-31Dec12-184_xlarge.jpg
http://medias.photodeck.com/9452576...2e28c7a7/Belvoir-harby-31Dec12-077_xlarge.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6192/6108811383_18ac60a910.jpg
Lady Sarah McCorquodale with Prince William and Kate Middleton
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/04_02/kateMS1204_468x386.jpg
http://www.royaltyinthenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Prince-William-Aunt.jpg
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Prince+William+Visits+Lincolnshire+l5LwrrKb-DZl.jpg
Lady Sarah Mccorquodale and Lady Jane, Baroness Fellowes and Chelsy Davy:
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I00001Glo_S8ra_k/s/650/650/NEWSPIX901037-Chelsy-Di-Sisters.jpg
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000ocUodOGU_Y8/s/650/650/NEWSPIX901041-Chelsy-Di-Sisters.jpg
Lady Sarah in recent Wedding of Spencer family:
http://www.heatworld.com/images/101196_615x2000_STD/2011/4/Images/Gallery/lady%20sarah%20mcCorquodale.jpg
Thanksgiving for Diana
http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/76...E92BF28028BDF12B5937BEAC3A46B070D22D75EAB5FDE
An article about the Spencer sisters and the royal connections of Jane, Baroness Fellowes
http://www.google.com.br/url?sa=t&r...uYDsDA&usg=AFQjCNEQtz4_w47e9yk9WDL9GZ3de4SakA

 

[NGalitzine]

Well we have a lot of old and illustrious families in the UK, many of which can claim descent from ancient royal lines, including the Spencers but I don't think I would say the Spencers are the most illustrious. Certainly not in their contributions to the nation.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Had it not been for Diana's marriage to The Prince of Wales, most of us-especially outside of the UK--probably would never had heard of them.

 

[Mariana Pazza]

Had it not been for Diana's marriage to The Prince of Wales, most of us-especially outside of the UK--probably would never had heard of them.

Yeah, of course, actually what all the world has been heard is about Victoria Beckham, Lady Gaga and the Kardashian girls, shallow mainstream culture, but we are talking about the British aristocracy, that was until recent times (but not now) one of the most closed and exclusive stabilishments of the world. Very snobbish and arrogant, of course, but it doesn't change the fact Lady Diana Spencer was a direct descendant of all Tudor kings, Stuart Kings, form Mary Queen of Scots, William the Conqueror, and also of all the main kings and queens of the Europe's history as Charlemagne, the Medici family from Florence, the Kings of France, the Habsburgs. Of course it is just interesting, no human being is best or worst due to the ancestors. And, hadn't the Stuart Kings left no descendants, the "Windsors" (actually Saxe Coburgh Gotha, originary from an obscure german principality) would be totally unknown right now... That's the way things be, and there's a concensus among genealogists that the Spencers have far more royal bood in their veins than the Windsors, and it is very rare a direct lineage from so many crowned heads. Diana even descends from the ancient Kings of Persia and Babilonia, as Darius. And there was certainly prejudice, 'cause Frances used to say the Windsors were "little germans", Diana talked about she had married into a "german family". And when Prince Philip and the Queen have threatened Diana to taking her the tittle , she answered "My tittle is older than yours!"

 

[NGalitzine]

While the Spencer's are an aristocratic family with an old and noble lineage, and even some royal lineage through largely illegitimate lines, to say they are more royal than the BRF is stretching reality more than a little bit. It makes a good story though.

 

[Mirabel]

Eh, some aristos used to sneer at the Spencers as "sheep farmers!"

Just goes to show, no matter how high your position, you can always find a bigger snob to look down on you.

 

[Mariana Pazza]

Some royal lineage? The Spencers descend directly from practically all most important queens and kings from Europe (and even outside of it), who has "some" royal lineage are the Saxe Coburgh Gotha. The nobility of a family is measured as older a noble family is, that's fact, I've learned it 'cause I'm an amateur genealogist, eh,eh. But it's only a curiosity, and it's a just interesting, but no more than that, I don't think those people are better than you or me, or anyone just because who their ancestors were. And even the British aristocracy is leveling down, it was no surprise that Kate Middleton descends from a jailbird, a dustman, and a road sweeper. I think that's amazing, that's democracy, we are all just human beings!Really, the Spencers were sheep farmers who became very rich, there was a time when they were richer than the Royal Family, but they wanted nobility, so what they did? They married their sons and daughters into the descendants of queen and kings, their women were noble, and their blood was "nobler" in every generation. That's the way things worked, and they were ambitious... That's it! Indeed, I think that explains a lot of things, Diana looked down to the Windsors, so she dared to defy them, so Earl Charles Spencer in his eulogy, it was extremely arrogant, you know, the Queen was there and the planetary audience... I think for the Spencers the Windsors where no more than corny germen. Of course I think it is snobbish, and I do think arrogance and Spencers could be synonyms, or being, I haven't a total sympathy for them...

 

[Mermaid1962]

Believe me, the women you mentioned are of no interest to me. The Spencers are an illustrious family, no doubt about that. We'd learn about various families through studying British history in school--but I don't remember hearing about the Spencers until Diana came along.

I couldn't understand Diana's comment about "my title is older than yours, Philip," because Diana didn't have a title. Her style of "Lady" was a courtesy title that referred to her father's title of Earl Spencer, not one that she personally owned.

And when Prince Philip and the Queen have threatened Diana to taking her the tittle , she answered "My tittle is older than yours!"

 

[corazon]

well, the spencer are a noble family from some centurys along, william when become king will be the firt in line with charles II, for example. I have the line complete of diana and in some point diana and charles are cousins, I don't know the nivel.
But it's normal that the name spencer was unknow until diana married charles, but in the high class of england was very know.

surely it can reach higher than the spencer, all the glory will be the day that William becomes king. after all, he is half spencer

 

[Mariana Pazza]

Believe me, the women you mentioned are of no interest to me. The Spencers are an illustrious family, no doubt about that. We'd learn about various families through studying British history in school--but I don't remember hearing about the Spencers until Diana came along.

I couldn't understand Diana's comment about "my title is older than yours, Philip," because Diana didn't have a title. Her style of "Lady" was a courtesy title that referred to her father's title of Earl Spencer, not one that she personally owned.

Oh, sorry, I never wanted to mean you have any interest for shallow celebrities, how could I know that, besides, it seems to me people interested in royalty have in general a better taste and a higher culture than those interested in mainstream culture. As I'm a foreigner, I'm easily and frequently misunderstood! I only have mentioned that to ilustrate how an illustrious family tree is not a garantee of being a planetary celebrity. Indeed, "celebrity" is considered something very vulgar for the high aristocracy. I think for sure Diana was referring to the fact her family's nobility is older than that of the Windsors, and she had more Kings and Queens of England as her direct ancestors than the current reigning house. She had said "tittle" as her family in general. I remember I have read sometime that before Diana's Wedding, her father said her: "Always remember you are a Spencer!" An excerpt about that:.."But the British Royal Wedding hasn’t just exposed the British public’s fascination of where the Middleton’s come from – they care about where everyone comes from. As this rather amazing article in New York Magazine noted: the current House of Windsor are seen by some members of the landed British aristocracy as nothing more then “middle-class Hanoverians.” The Royal Family as you may or may not know only became the House of Windsor in 1910, changing their name (how common!) from the German sounding House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (Queen Victoria’s husband, Prince Albert, was Prince of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha). And Diana, upon being threated by Prince Phillip: "If you don't behave, my girl, we'll take your title away." Diana is alleged to have replied: "My title is a lot older than yours, Philip." Diana was only too happy to remind Philip that while he may be married to the Queen, the Spencer family has been titled since the 1500’s. Snap."-
I remember reading that Diana's great-great-great-grandmother Sarah Churchill, Duchess of Marlborough (1660-1744) had left court coming back to Blenheim Palace when the first King of german dinasty was crowned because, in her words "the King is too German!" I think the most remarkable Spencer until now is Sir Winston Spencer Churchill, whose contributions for British nation and for world politics in general are inestimable. Of couse the Tudor and Stuart kings where of great importance for England, but they were not Spencer, tough direct ancestor of the nowadays Spencers.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Prince Philip was born a Prince of Greece and Denmark, and Denmark has Europe's oldest monarchy. Therefore, Philip's original title was older than Diana's. I agree with you about Sir Winston Churchill. He was a great man.