The Royal Family of Spain, Current Events Part 21: December 2010 - October 2012

[Alondra]

There should be more financial transparency in the future. The royal family gets their income from tax payers - of course they should be 100% transparent and accountable.

Having said that, it's time to get rid of extra baggage. King JC and Qeen S didn't get any extra help when they dealt with the political transition of Spain after Franco - they were on their own with their small children. It'd be certainly much easier , than it was, to have on board the hard working Asturias even if Elena and Cristina are out of the way for good.

The SRF can't afford this type of scandal. Neither they can afford a "large" family "perceived " by Spaniards to be diverting money from the public purse when so many people are having such a tough time.

Spain's monarchy is by no means secure. There has always been a strong Republican sentiment and there always will be. The sooner the Royal House strongly addresses this issue the better for the monarchy.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I honestly think that the topic is being pressured now because of the Inaki incident, its an elegant way to get rid of him and his public association with the SRF.

With time passing and the death of the King this scenario would have happened anyhow but we all dont know when.

http://www.vanitatis.com/casas-real...-a-los-reyes-los-principes-y-sus-hijas-16815/

By the way, could one of the moderators maybe move this discussion to the Future of the Spanish monarchy thread?

 

[Alondra]

I wouldn't call stealing elegant, duke. Undargarin is almostt likely to be charged with corruption and stealing public moneys. Spanish law moves slowly....but implacably.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I wouldn't call stealing elegant, duke. Undargarin is almostt likely to be charged with corruption and stealing public moneys. Spanish law moves slowly....but implacably.

I guess you misread my post. I called the way the SRF is now getting rid of him "elegant", by reducing the SRF itself, not what he has done.

 

[Alondra]

I still don't get why you'd call it "elegant". There are a few words I think more appropiate to the situation - . Necessary, imperative and must do come to mind.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I still don't get why you'd call it "elegant". There are a few words I think more appropiate to the situation - . Necessary, imperative and must do comes to mind.

I called it elegant because its the natural way, only earlier than planned (after the King's death).

To cut Inaki from the SRF in another way - enforced - is a more obvious way of outcasting him & the Palma family, at least in the public view. To give the reason of slimming down the family and taking Elena into the same boat is - at least when saving face - a less brutal cut.

 

[Alondra]

It's going to be a brutal cut, independently of how it's done and sold to everyone - from Elena to Spaniards.

The only law Juan Carlos needs to adhere to is Spain's Constitution. He swore it.

Inaki' s shoddy's business are his to deal with and the Spanish judicial system. Unfortunately, his wife Cristina, was also a director of his company. And she is an Infanta of Spain.

 

[lula]

Doesn't it mean the families of Elena and Cristina will not have the police protection ? It said in the media that the salaries for the officers alone for Cristina's family in DC was about 300K, probably the same for Elena too. Other than the police protection, the SRF gets a fixed amount each year, will not change with or without the infantas.

Safety depends of the Ministry of Interior, they will assess the situation and decide whether the circumstances require such security or not.

 

[lula]

Zarzuela specifies that the infantas and Urdangarin are Royal Family

They assure that their belonging is not in question in spite of the decision to reduce their participation in official acts in Don Juan Carlos' representation

Zarzuela puntualiza que las infantas y Urdangarin son Familia Real. El Correo

Google Traductor

 

[Alondra]

Zarzuela thinks of limiting the Royal Family. Links to national newspapers.

Zarzuela estudia limitar la Familia Real a los Reyes, los Prncipes y Leonor y Sofa | España | elmundo.es
La Casa del Rey intensifica su plan de reducir las actividades oficiales de las infantas | Política | EL PAÍS

 

[lula]

Summarizing, the Infantas will stop having official activity ... but they cannot stop being members of the Royal Family if there are no changes in the law, and it does not depend on the Royal Family.

 

[Alondra]

Cristina and Elena can be nothing other but themselves - Infantas and daughters of the King and Queen of Spain.

It doesn't mean however that they can't disappear from royal duties - it's up to the Royal House to keep them there or not.

It's going to depend on what the Royal House and JC thinks is the best for Spain, specially considering the financial circumstances of the country right now.

 

[lula]

Statement on the information published about the composition and functions of the Royal Family

Comunicado sobre las informaciones aparecidas acerca la composición y funciones de la Familia Real. Casa de Su Majestad el Rey de España

Google Traductor

 

[Alondra]

That statement means nothing really - point 1 refers only to the Civil Registry of the Royal Family,

Real Decreto 2917/1981, de 27 de noviembre, sobre Registro Civil de la Familia Real.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I guess their status will be like the King's sisters today - HRH's & keeping the title Duchess of Palma/Lugo and in Cristina's case the husband without title, like Carlos Zurita.

Their pictures and activities will be removed from the website but from time to time they will take part in the core SRF's activities, like the Infantas Margarita and Pilar do from time to time.

 

[lula]

Not exactly. Infantas Pilar and Margarita are not Royal Family, they are only Family of the King.

Infantas Elena and Cristina would be members of the Royal Family, but without official activity representing the Crown.

If the king dies or abdicates the Infantas Elena and Cristina cease to be members of the Royal Family, and they will be Family of the King.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Sorry I wasnt clear, this is what they in my opinion should finally become, even before the King passes away, similar to Prince Friso in the Netherlands, who is a member of the Dutch Royal Family, but not of the Dutch Royal House and has no succession rights. Everything else is not consistent.

Now that Felipe has a family, its all about him and there is no need to keep the Infantas in the positions they have been holding. Its ok to have tax-payer funded full-time working royals in a monarchy but not part-time working partly tax-payer funded and part time regular working royals.
The public will eventually enforce this on all royal families and it would be good if the Spanish would make a clear cut here, given the opportunity.

Eventually the Infantas will end up exactly there, but only after the King's death. Why not now.

 

[lula]

Duke, the King can separate his daughters of the official activities,remove them from the website, he cannot give them money of the official budget or leave them without secretary (that the rumors say that he will resign at the end of the year because he was the treasurer of Noos).

But the King can not decide who is member of the Royal Family, because one of the laws relating to the Crown is saying that the descendants of King are members of the Royal Family. The king does not legislate, legislate the government, so his hands are tied.

This is the point that today has clarified the House of the King.

Real Decreto 2917/1981, de 27 de noviembre, sobre Registro Civil de la Familia Real.

In the Civil Registry of the Royal Family entered the births, marriages and deaths, as well as any other fact or act registrable under the Civil Registration law, affecting the King of Spain, his August consort, his first-degree upward , his descendants and the Crown Prince.

 

[An Ard Ri]

I guess their status will be like the King's sisters today - HRH's & keeping the title Duchess of Palma/Lugo and in Cristina's case the husband without title, like Carlos Zurita.

Their pictures and activities will be removed from the website but from time to time they will take part in the core SRF's activities, like the Infantas Margarita and Pilar do from time to time.

Except unlike Pilar & Margarita,Infantas Elena,Cristina & their children are in the line of succession to the Spanish Throne.

 

[Charlotte_Aster]

I find it a bit unfair why all of a sudden Infanta Elena has to suffer the consequences of her sister's family's actions? She has all but acted quite respectably in the past. Also, if God forbid Juan Carlos were to pass away(let's face it, he had many health problems recently) SRF does need the infantas to carry on at least some of the work load. At least until the Infantas Leonor and Sofia are old enough. Therefore, I don't think cutting them off so abruptly is the wise thing to do here. Although I do understand how much it hurts the image of SRF, they should probably find a way to fix this whole mess without losing the "work force" so to say.

 

[AnaC]

I guess their status will be like the King's sisters today - HRH's & keeping the title Duchess of Palma/Lugo and in Cristina's case the husband without title, like Carlos Zurita.

Their pictures and activities will be removed from the website but from time to time they will take part in the core SRF's activities, like the Infantas Margarita and Pilar do from time to time.

What do you mean without title? I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Neither Iñaki nor Carlos have a personal title, but both are entitled to use Duke of Palma/Soria and Hernani as consorts.
Iñaki has never had a title

 

[An Ard Ri]

I find it a bit unfair why all of a sudden Infanta Elena has to suffer the consequences of her sister's family's actions? She has all but acted quite respectably in the past. Also, if God forbid Juan Carlos were to pass away(let's face it, he had many health problems recently) SRF does need the infantas to carry on at least some of the work load. At least until the Infantas Leonor and Sofia are old enough. Therefore, I don't think cutting them off so abruptly is the wise thing to do here. Although I do understand how much it hurts the image of SRF, they should probably find a way to fix this whole mess without losing the "work force" so to say.

It would be most unfair to Elena as the eldest child .Although neither of the Infantas perform a lot of royal duties,I had hoped that as Their Majesties got older they would delegate more to the 2 daughters & not over work Felipe & Letizia.

 

[Charlotte_Aster]

It would be most unfair to Elena as the eldest child .Although neither of the Infantas perform a lot of royal duties,I had hoped that as Their Majesties got older they would delegate more to the 2 daughters & not over work Felipe & Letizia.

Even if Elena was the youngest, it would still be unfair, for she had done nothing wrong. I don't think Infantas Leonor and Sofia would work as "royals" at least for the next 10 years, so if SRF were to indeed be reduced to the Kings and the Princes of Asturias and Infantas, then it looks like Felipe and Letizia would definitely overwork until their daughters are old enough.
I know that when Juan Carlos and Sofia first ascended the throne they were also so to say "alone" with two little children, but there were less activities back then. Many argue argue that in other countries the royal house is also reduced to the sovereign and the consort plus the heir and his family. But Spain is considerably larger than most of these countries, ergo more work force is required.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Even if Elena was the youngest, it would still be unfair, for she had done nothing wrong. I don't think Infantas Leonor and Sofia would work as "royals" at least for the next 10 years, so if SRF were to indeed be reduced to the Kings and the Princes of Asturias and Infantas, then it looks like Felipe and Letizia would definitely overwork until their daughters are old enough.
I know that when Juan Carlos and Sofia first ascended the throne they were also so to say "alone" with two little children, but there were less activities back then. Many argue argue that in other countries the royal house is also reduced to the sovereign and the consort plus the heir and his family. But Spain is considerably larger than most of these countries, ergo more work force is required.

Oh I agree with you Charlotte,I guess we'll just have to wait & see what the Palace does next!

 

[lula]

Infanta Elena is also indirectly related, her secretary and close friend Carlos Garcia Revenga was treasurer of Noos. When the Infanta Elena divorced, she and Revenga created a company that the King ordered to close the day that its existence was made public.

Infanta Elena and Infanta Cristina have an agenda reduced almost to social and cultural events that could do without being officially members of the Royal Family.

Infanta Pilar and Infanta Margarita have never been Royal Family, and always had an important social activity, or even official when their nephews were children.

Infanta Pilar was President of the International Equestrian Federation and International Olympic Committee member, she is now an honorary member. She also chaired the cultural organization Europa Nostra. She is honorary president of Nuevo Futuro, or member of the board of Thyssen Museum.

Infanta Margarita and her husband are presidents of a foundation that carries out many activities. She is honorary president of UNICEF Spain, ONCE, the Spanish Heart Foundation and the Spanish Federation of Hemophilia. Her husband Carlos Zurita is president of the Association of Friends of the Prado Museum.

Just being infantas, they have an intense activity.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Infanta Elena is also indirectly related, her secretary and close friend Carlos Garcia Revenga was treasurer of Noos. When the Infanta Elena divorced, she and Revenga created a company that the King ordered to close the day that its existence was made public.

Infanta Elena and Infanta Cristina have an agenda reduced almost to social and cultural events that could do without being officially members of the Royal Family.

Infanta Pilar and Infanta Margarita have never been Royal Family, and always had an important social activity, or even official when their nephews were children.

Infanta Pilar was President of the International Equestrian Federation and International Olympic Committee member, she is now an honorary member. She also chaired the cultural organization Europa Nostra. She is honorary president of Nuevo Futuro, or member of the board of Thyssen Museum.

Infanta Margarita and her husband are presidents of a foundation that carries out many activities. She is honorary president of UNICEF Spain, ONCE, the Spanish Heart Foundation and the Spanish Federation of Hemophilia. Her husband Carlos Zurita is president of the Association of Friends of the Prado Museum.

Just being infantas, they have an intense activity.

Are the Kings sisters Infantas de España,like the Kings 2 daughters?

 

[AnaC]

Of course, what else would they be, if we call them Infantas all the time?

 

[An Ard Ri]

Of course, what else would they be, if we call them Infantas all the time?

Just wanted to be sure as I've often seen Pilar refered to as Infanta Pilar 'de Borbón' moreso than 'de España'.

Thank you for answering my question AnaC.

 

[lula]

After the scandal Urdangarín, the House of the King has announced that will publish in the web the separation of the budget that the King receives and that for law he distributes freely.

El Rey aparta a Urdangarin por su comportamiento no ejemplar | España | elmundo.es

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Queen Sofía visits family Urdangarín in Washington

La reina Sofía con los duques de Palma en Washington

More pictures - thanks to Foro Hispanico
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/9400/image512253591024x768.jpg
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/5923/image512253621024x768.jpg
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/6006/image512253641024x768.jpg

In context, especially the cover photo of HOLA transmits arrogance and provocation, lack of respect for people. If you want to support your daughter and her family, do it with more decency and discretion, not boasting. Its comes across like laughing at people.

This photo will one day haunt Sofia, I am sure.