The Queen and Australia: Residences, Governor-General, etc...

[Lumutqueen]

Is it planned that William carry out the Investiture or has it already taken place?

Why would William carry out the investiture?

 

[RoyalDaisy]

Why would William carry out the investiture?

Just a thought really - might even have been mentally rambling! I was combining thoughts of honours and royals and William going to Australia and maybe he would present Quentin Bryce and her successor with their honours.

Who does present them with their honours?

 

[Ish]

Just a thought really - might even have been mentally rambling! I was combining thoughts of honours and royals and William going to Australia and maybe he would present Quentin Bryce and her successor with their honours.



Who does present them with their honours?

State Governors can present the lower ranks of the order to individuals that reside in their state. The Knight /Dame and Companion grades can only be presented by either the Queen of Australia or the Governor General.

Officially, William has no role in Australia. While he is able to fill in representing the Queen at British investitures, within the Commonwealth she is already represented in an official capacity by the GG.

 

[RoyalDaisy]

State Governors can present the lower ranks of the order to individuals that reside in their state. The Knight /Dame and Companion grades can only be presented by either the Queen of Australia or the Governor General.

Officially, William has no role in Australia. While he is able to fill in representing the Queen at British investitures, within the Commonwealth she is already represented in an official capacity by the GG.

Who presents the honour to the Governor General if the Queen is not available? I think this was part of my mental rambling process. Does the GG wait until they visit the Queen? The Queen will probably never visit Australia again.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Who presents the honour to the Governor General if the Queen is not available? I think this was part of my mental rambling process. Does the GG wait until they visit the Queen? The Queen will probably never visit Australia again.

I imagine, the incoming GG may be visiting the UK at some point this year. Whereupon he will recieve his knighthood.

 

[Ish]

I'm not sure.

The current GG was just named a Dame of the Order, so it will be interesting to see who is going to grant it to her - will someone fill in while she's still GG, will she present it to herself, or will the new GG (who becomes such on Friday) present it to her?

Similarly, the incoming GG is set to become a Knight once he is GG, so who will give it to him - the old GG, himself, or someone else?

I'm not sure what's happened in the past.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I'm not sure.

The current GG was just named a Dame of the Order, so it will be interesting to see who is going to grant it to her - will someone fill in while she's still GG, will she present it to herself, or will the new GG (who becomes such on Friday) present it to her?

Similarly, the incoming GG is set to become a Knight once he is GG, so who will give it to him - the old GG, himself, or someone else?

I'm not sure what's happened in the past.

Ms Bryce will recieve her "Damehood" from the incoming GG when he is in office. The incoming GG Peter Cosgrove will visit Buckingham Palace this year and recieve his honour from The Queen.

 

[RoyalDaisy]

Ms Bryce will recieve her "Damehood" from the incoming GG when he is in office. The incoming GG Peter Cosgrove will visit Buckingham Palace this year and recieve his honour from The Queen.

I thought he had just paid a visit to the Uk February 2014. YES!

http://www.smh.com.au/national/pete...--queens-mantobe-retreats-20140220-3348z.html

Saw the Queen

 

[RoyalDaisy]

Now this debate is why I thouht that perhaps William would carry out the investiture as HMQs representative...........stops tape and doesnt rewind

 

[Lumutqueen]

I thought he had just paid a visit to the Uk February 2014. YES!

Peter Cosgrove: As you were, soldier - Queen's man-to-be retreats

Saw the Queen

He did yes, but at the time Honours had not been reinstated in Australia so there was nothing for The Queen to give him. The trip was a private visit but as Mr Cosgrove mentions in the article it is courteous to come visit The Queen when you are the incoming GG.
I imagine he will visit in the summer perhaps, attend a garden party etc. There is no rush to give him the actual order. For instance Ms Bryce is now Dame Quentin Bryce yet I don't believe she has been invested by the incoming GG.

Now this debate is why I thouht that perhaps William would carry out the investiture as HMQs representative...........stops tape and doesnt rewind

As explained William can't carry out investitures because he doesn't represent The Queen. When he's King he can.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I wouldn't be surprised is Quentin Bryce's last act as GG is to invest her successor and his first is to invest his predecessor - as this will be a unique occasion. Then when Sir Peter Cosgrove steps down his final act would be to invest his successor.

As these are Australian awards there is no need for a foreigner to be involved in the formal investiture at all.

 

[Sun Lion]

The Queen Also Granted Dame Quentin "The Honourable"...

...Current Prime Minister, Mr Tony Abbott, re-introduced Knights and Dames to the Australian Order -

- but it has been revealed former Prime Minister, Ms Julia Gillard, is the one who wrote to Her Majesty The Queen - who agreed and issued the Letters Patent - which enables Dame Quentin Bryce to be known as "The Honourable" - for life.

Without Mr Abbott and Ms Gillard, the recently retired Governor-General would have been the first in Australia's history to have had to revert to "Ms" upon leaving the role.

The Queen made it retrospective, but it only affected Quentin and two other former GGs - as all others were already "Honourable" because of their birth or previous occupations.

Article about it by Peter Hartcher entitled "Quentin Bryce collects another title for retirement" online, if you're interested in more detail.

Ms Gillard was known to be very close to her Welsh Socialist roots/background, and was a Labour/anti-monarchist politician.

(But then we did get a photo of her knitting for Prince George in the "Women's Weekly" at the time of his birth last year.)

Cheers, Sun Lion.

 

[Graz]

There hasn't been any discussion of investiture here as for Governors General, the honour is bestowed automatically. The Governor General is ex-offico the Chancellor & Principal Knight/Dame of the Order Of Australia by virtue of holding the office.

For Dame Quentin Bryce, this occurred the moment the Queen, on advice of the Prime Minister, signed the letters patent authorising the reintroduction of Knighthoods / Dameships.

General Sir Peter Cosgrove was elevated to that rank when he was sworn in by the Chief Justice of the High Court on the floor of the Senate of Australia.

As for how future recipients (who aren't also becoming Governor General) will receive the honour the Prime Minister states;

"Well, this is really a question for the recipient of the award. Let's not forget that the Queen is actually the Sovereign of the Order of Australia and my understanding is that it is not entirely unknown for people who receive an award in the Order of Australia, as things stand, to receive their honour from Her Majesty. On the other hand, it is also quite common for people who receive these awards in the Order of Australia to receive the honour from their [State] Governor or the Governor-General."

There is no way Prince William will be involved in any investiture whilst he is visiting. The Prime Minister (an avid monarchist) has already been criticised widely by republicans and the media for what is seen as an anachronistic move.

The very last thing he or the monarchist movement need is the image of a Junior Royal (Albeit well liked and respected here) holding the position of authority over the Governor General (Who is widely regarded as the de-facto head of state) in an investiture ceremony.

You could also rule out The Duke of Cambridge receiving an Australian Knighthood on this trip. The Prime Minister has had to reaffirm that this is not a return to Imperial awards but an Australian award for Eminent Australians who have given extraordinary service to the nation. It has been capped at 4 new members per annum. To award one to William so soon after announcing it with these terms would be political suicide and do great damage to the monarchist movement.

If Australia remains a constitutional monarchy he may receive one when he is heir to throne, as his father has, but I very much doubt before then.

My best guess for the next appointment would be former Governor General, Major General Michael Jeffries. The other former Governors General who don't yet have a Knighthood most likely won't receive the honour as Bill Hayden, a former Labour politician, holds a Companion of the Order of Australia only by virtue of being the Principal Companion as Governor General and has previously declined all other honours and Peter Hollingworth resigned his office in controversy.

- but it has been revealed former Prime Minister, Ms Julia Gillard, is the one who wrote to Her Majesty The Queen - who agreed and issued the Letters Patent - which enables Dame Quentin Bryce to be known as "The Honourable" - for life.

I must say It annoys me that they are granted "The Honourable" whilst still holding office as the are already styled "Your Excellency". It makes it very Clunky, we now have 'His Excellency The Honourable General Sir Peter Cosgrove'.

It would have made more sense for the sitting GG to be styled 'His/Her Excellency' and upon retirement 'The Honourable' (or even 'The Right Honourable' but thats another argument).

Anyway thought I'd sign up to offer some clarity on the issue, hope it helped.

 

[Sun Lion]

Marvellous First Post Graz...

...Thank you for the clear and full explanation - I hope there will be more from you.

Cheers, Sun Lion.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I think if people bothered to sit down and think about Philip's association with Australia, then people would understand why the PM put Prince Philip's name forward for this Knighthood.

Tony Abbott has not made The Duke of Edinburgh a part of any joke. I think the joke is on those who's overreacting on Prince Philip receiving such an honor. There will be many deserving Australian's who will go on to receive the Knighthood. The honor hasn't been used up on Prince Philip.

As an Australian I can assure you that this has backfired enormously.

Polls being mentioned on the morning news this morning show 76% of Australians are OPPOSED to this award to a foreigner who has done NOTHING for Australia.

There won't be 'many Australians' who will go on to receive the Knighthood.

There can only be 4 per year and they were abolished by the Hawke Labor Government until reinstated last year by Abbot amongst a lot of anti-feelings then.

Australians do NOT want to have our honours system including knights and dames as that is too close to the old system in the UK. Australians are a proud independent nation and we don't not like having this sort of thing which seems to link us back to the UK in a way that suggests subservience to them.

The people who have most benefitted by this decision are the republicans and the ALP.

Abbot's support as PM, which was already sliding, has now slid even further to the point where this decision could even see him get dumped by his own party. He didn't even consult with them, as he knew they would oppose that decision.

It was a totally out of touch decision.

 

[CrownPrincessJava]

Tony Abbott is the real joke here [ridiculed the WORLD over], yet you Aussies elected him your PM...

If you actually bothered to follow Australian politics, you would know that 10 weeks prior to our last Federal election, we had ANOTHER Labor leadership spill. We were facing another 3 years of this political seesaw. Australians had a choice; continue with a party that were in turmoil or elect a party who were united.

Unlike the US, we vote for a party to govern. It is this party who elects a leader. The problem with Abbott is that he isn't listening to his own party members. The Knighthood is the second time in 3 months that he has broken ranks with his own party. That is political suicide.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Australians do NOT want to have our honours system including knights and dames as that is too close to the old system in the UK. Australians are a proud independent nation and we don't not like having this sort of thing which seems to link us back to the UK in a way that suggests subservience to them.

Whilst I understand the point you're making, what I don't get it why an honours system MUST be associated with being "subservient" to the UK. Surely if certain rules were in place, and certain criteria met, wouldn't this be a great way to honour australians?


Also, Philip was made an honourary knight because he is not Australian. He is an honourary member of a lot of things inside and outside the UK which have also had little to do with him directly. Why is it such a big deal? I'm not trying to criticise, just understand really. The honours systems re-installed appears to be pretty farsical from what has been described so why pay much attention to it?

 

[Dman]

Robert Jobson @theroyaleditor · 8h 8 hours ago
Only Queen Elizabeth II can appoint Australian knights and dames, on the recommendation of the prime minister.

Robert Jobson @theroyaleditor · 8h 8 hours ago
Australian knighthoods & damehoods was discontinued in 1976 but brought back briefly in 1986 - PM @TonyAbbottMHR reinstated them in 2014.

I personally think The Queen fully appreciate PM Abbott for even thinking of Prince Philip for the Knighthood and I'm sure Prince Philip appreciate the honor.

 

[VictoriaB]

I personally think The Queen fully appreciate PM Abbott for even thinking of Prince Philip for the Knighthood and I'm sure Prince Philip appreciate the honor.

It's just the Australian people who disagree with the decision.

It's interesting that on this board, none of the Australians have spoken out in favour of the award (I appreciate that there may be some lurkers). The only support has come from citizens of other countries who obviously don't understand the depth of feeling here.

Of course the Queen would be in favour of the award. She loves her husband and appreciates his support. That is commendable but it doesn't make it right for Australia and Australians.

 

[Roslyn]

Whilst I understand the point you're making, what I don't get it why an honours system MUST be associated with being "subservient" to the UK. Surely if certain rules were in place, and certain criteria met, wouldn't this be a great way to honour australians?

No. We can honour worthy people without using this terminology. The very words "knight" and "dame" connote subservience to the UK and the UK monarch. Both sides in our mother/child relationship with Britain have been gradually severing the apron strings for decades, particularly since the 1980s. Before 1975 Australians received British Honours, then we established our own, which still included these knighthoods and damehoods. In 1983 Cabinet agreed to abolish knights and dames. When Abbott reintroduced knights and dames, Australian Republican Movement National Director, David Morris, said: "This is turning the clock back to a colonial frame of mind that we have outgrown as a nation." "Our identity today is Australian, so our national honours should be thoroughly Australian." And this is the crux of the matter for me and, I think, for most Australians.

Also, Philip was made an honourary knight because he is not Australian. He is an honourary member of a lot of things inside and outside the UK which have also had little to do with him directly. Why is it such a big deal? I'm not trying to criticise, just understand really. The honours systems re-installed appears to be pretty farsical from what has been described so why pay much attention to it?

We pay attention to it precisely because it is farcical. We don't want to be associated with something as absurd as this when we did not want it or agree to it in the first place. You are welcome to laugh at our stuffed cane toads or cockroach races, but we do not want to be ridiculed for something we did not want and do not embrace.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Unlike the US, we vote for a party to govern.

We actually don't vote for a party at all. We vote for individuals who tell us what party they are affiliated with.

Remember that many, many times politicians here have changed their party but have kept their seats - in both Houses - as we elect individuals.

It is a common misconception that we vote for parties because that is what most people look at but the reality is it is the person we elect and if that person decides to change their party they remain as our representative until the next election anyway. If we voted for a party then when that happens the person would have to give up their seat to someone from the same party but they don't.

 

[royalistbert]

There are far more important things in this world than Prince Philip honorary knighthood. I don't see how this effects your day to day life in anyway. At lot of countries have knighthoods even some republics have them. Load of fuss over nothing.

 

[Roslyn]

There are far more important things in this world than Prince Philip honorary knighthood. I don't see how this effects your day to day life in anyway. At lot of countries have knighthoods even some republics have them. Load of fuss over nothing.

I find it amusing that so many people who are not Australian are telling us that we are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Well this issue has marked another turning point for me. When I joined this board I was a monarchist but being part of discussions here forced me to examine my feelings on the subject and I became a republican. However I still wanted to retain the flag and not change it, but after this fiasco I am rethinking that, too, and I am not so sure I want the Union Jack on my national flag. The Eureka Flag is looking better and better to me.

 

[King of the Jungle]

I very much agree with the reinstatement of Knights and Dames and I don't see the terms as an expression of subservience to Britain.
British history is shared history.
The titles Knight and Dame are well known and have been used for many years in Australia. I identify them with people who deserve an extra accolade for their achievements. They are more easily used and more easily identify a person who has earned the title on their own merit. There is an impressive list of Australians who have been called Sir and Dame.
Dame Nellie Melba, Dame Elisabeth Murdoch, Dame Enid Lyons, Sir John Monash, Sir Zelman Cowen, Sir Charles Court, Sir Robert Menzies and Sir MacFarlane Burnet etc.
To me it matters not whether the Queen (who is our Queen after all) or the Prime Minister instigates the award as it is still the recipient who earns their title. I hope we keep the highly recognisable titles, Dame and Sir, as our highest honour whether we are a Republic or a Monarchy.

That said, though Prince Philip has put a mammoth effort into the Duke of Edinburgh Awards - benefiting most Australian schools; I think a lesser award was fitting. I would have appointed another Australian to receive the highest honour of Knight or Dame. If I were Tony Abbott I'd be conferring more with my party members. Tony Abbott is so often awkward and inappropriate. He needs to consult more readily so to glean accurate assessment of what is acceptable to the public.

I hope Prince Philip doesn't feel too embarrassed.
He has been awarded the honour and he has made worthy contributions. I think we Australians should just get over it and pat him on the back - so to speak. It's not his fault that Tony Abbott acts like the Lone Ranger and makes obvious mistakes because of his stubbornness.

 

[royal rob]

Queen Elizabeth and the Duke of Edinburgh Current Events 27: December 2014

I find it amusing that so many people who are not Australian are telling us that we are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Well this issue has marked another turning point for me. When I joined this board I was a monarchist but being part of discussions here forced me to examine my feelings on the subject and I became a republican. However I still wanted to retain the flag and not change it, but after this fiasco I am rethinking that, too, and I am not so sure I want the Union Jack on my national flag. The Eureka Flag is looking better and better to me.

I find that very strange that you would let a thing like this change your mind about the Flag.
I would never want to get rid of OUR flag no matter what Tony Abbott did and it was solely him.
I would never have guessed you were a republican either. While I'm not I can see that once the Queens dies we will become one.


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[cepe]

There are 2 main issues I draw from this latest debacle.

1. Politicains never really get what the people think - Abbott seems far removed from reality.
2. I would never want a politician as Head of State, working with a political leader.

So my view is that I am more inclined to a monarchy because of this stupid error than not. And the monarchy has behaved well, because they were too polite to turn it down and thereby embarassing Abbott.

But I would also add that the upgrade of an existing honour is hardly a matter for anyone to throw themselves on the barricades!

 

[royal rob]

Point number 2 is the reason I don't want to get rid of the monarchy.
My dad would say " if's not broke don't fix it "



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[Roslyn]

Point number 2 is the reason I don't want to get rid of the monarchy.
My dad would say " if's not broke don't fix it "

I used to be in the "if it an't broke, don't fix it" school, too. But I now believe it is broken.

I didn't realise you are Australian. Do you really feel comfortable having a foreigner who lives in a foreign country and owes her primary allegiance to that foreign country, as your Head of State and representing you on the world stage? I don't want a politician as Head of State; I want the model that has the President appointed in the same manner as the G-G is currently appointed, but I'm in the minority as most Australians seem to favour the directly elected model who has more power, in the manner of the US system. So to that extent I am still in the "if it ain't broke, dont' fix it" camp, since I'd just like things to essentially remain as they are, with the G-G becoming Head of State.

We can't hold a State dinner for HM when she visits here, because she is our Head of State too and would be hosting it for herself.

And, silly as you may think it is, this knighthood for Philip has been the factor which has jolted my out of my complacency re the flag issue. If we're going to become a republic we should have and flag, too. South Africa got an absolutely splendid one. I want a distinctive one like that.

 

[royalistbert]

No need for Brit bashing and bashing your own heritage.

 

[royal rob]

Yes I'm happy with the ways thing are I think it works well.
I can just see problems would arise any other way. But as I have said its days are numbered my children( adults ) are all for a change.
They are the future so that's their right


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I would however be very sad to see our flag changed. It could became let's change it whenever we want to
This is our flag forever


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