The Prince of Wales & The Duchess of Cornwall visit Denmark: March 24-27, 2012

[NGalitzine]

Nothing is wrong with being invited but staying in the background. But this is not what they did. They took center stage by planting a tree with C&C as if they were not only guests but there in official capacity, like playing hosts.

Perhaps you should send off a letter to the Danish court voicing your disapproval and tell them they do not know how to do things properly. Since I doubt Mr Donaldson jumped in to plant a tree and meet the Prince of Wales on his own it must all have been organized beforehand, thus doing what he was asked to do. If you have a complaint it belongs with the organizers not with Mr Donaldson.

 

[suztav]

Don't understand the problem with the Donaldson's taking part in the ceremony. They are British subjects in attendance like other British subjects at the Church and the tree planting ceremony.

 

[FasterB]

Perhaps Mr. and Mrs. Donaldson were invited by Saint Alban´s Church to take part in this service? Or perhaps they just attended the service and then were asked by the priests to join the tree planting ceremony?
Couldn´t that be the case?

 

[ricarda]

Duke of Marmalade
Nothing is wrong with being invited but staying in the background. But this is not what they did. They took center stage by planting a tree with C&C as if they were not only guests but there in official capacity, like playing hosts.
Other royal in-laws doing the same would be eaten alive (Spain, Britain, Netherlands come to my mind).

On all the pictures I saw J&S were definitely not planting a tree together with C&C or playing hosts. They actually stayed in the background while the tree was planted. Then I saw a few pics with the 2 couples chatting and Susan actually curtseying to the royal couple. And I saw one pic with John Donaldson standing alone at the tree, his wife in the background, probably asked to finish what and when the royal couple had left.

Since the British and Spanish Cps married women of their own country they don't fit in here.
And if Maxima's father wasn't the man he is, I could definitely see him included in an official visit from Argentina.

If the Middletons were ever to take part in an official engagement with a visiting royal, without a member of the BRF present, there would be big questions asked. The Middletons would be accused of being grasping social climbers with ideas above their station. Then again, from what we've seen of Kate's parents, I don't believe they would ever agree to such a thing.

Since the Middletons are British, why should they ever agree to take part in an official engagement with a visiting royal?

Now, thanks to you and other posters, big questions were asked. The Donaldsons have been accused of being grasping social climbers with ideas above their station and attention seekers (just like their absent daughter).
I hope you all had your satisfaction of the day and we can move on now.

 

[Muhler]

All of this discussion would have been rendered redundant if the DRF had provided a proper representative to attend the church service. Was there no-one within the extended DRF who could spare an hour this morning to satisfy protocol?

If the Middletons were ever to take part in an official engagement with a visiting royal, without a member of the BRF present, there would be big questions asked. The Middletons would be accused of being grasping social climbers with ideas above their station. Then again, from what we've seen of Kate's parents, I don't believe they would ever agree to such a thing.

What protocol?
C&C were celebrating QEII and meeting her subjects on their own. C&C were the main characters today.
This is the very reason why they are here in the first place (if someone can point me to another event celebrating QEII here in DK, or give me a reason why we Danes should celebrate a foreign Monarch, please do).

Had members of the DRF attended today's ceremony, C&C would have been guests who were gracioulsy allowed to meet their countrymen and celebrate their Monarch.
Try turn it around. Why should the DRF attend a ceremony where the local British residents celebrate their Sovereign? Wouldn't that be gate crashing? Unless invited of course.
Denmark is not subject to the British crown.

And what is wrong with the father of our Crown Princess? Who also happens to be a subject of QEII. Isn't he good enough? Did he wrestle the shovel from the hands of someone else or is it more likely that he was invited to attend the ceremony?

The DRF is, in contrast to most other monarchies, in the unique position of having a Crown Princess of foreign decend. That can make things a little complicated as has been the case with CP Maxima, as you may recall.

 

[Viv]

Perhaps you should send off a letter to the Danish court voicing your disapproval and tell them they do not know how to do things properly.

That's a brilliant idea!
The address is:
Hofmarskallatet, Det gule Palæ, Amaliegade 18, DK 1256-Copenhagen K. In case you want to contact the court CP Frederik:
HKH Kronprinsens Hof, Amalienborg Slotsplads 4, Postboks 2143 DK 1015 Copenhagen K.

I still don't get why a member of the Danish royal Family should accompany C & C to service in an C of E church for the the British expat community in Denmark. It would be preposterous IMO! Nor would I expect to see a member of the BRF accompanying a Danish royal to a service in the Danish church in London during a Danish state visit.
The 'hosting' RF is usually not involved in these expat activities!
Now, if someone could tell me otherwise, if someone has any particular insight or experience with this particular aspect of royal protocol, please do enlighten me!

 

[UserDane]

I am tempted to say "like father, like daughter".

Such a pity that you cannot reign in your temptations then Your comment is both rude and misplaced.

I honestly don't understand why anyone can make such an ado because this event took place the way it did - no doubt with the full approval of both the Danish and English courts.

Just curious - how did you all survive watching the second, no wait, the third! in line to the throne greeting Charles and Camilla in Sweden?

 

[Artemisia]

Just curious - how did you all survive watching the second, no wait, the third! in line to the throne greeting Charles and Camilla in Sweden?

Since first in the line to the Throne was on maternity leave (which she, incidentally, later interrupted to greet Charles and Camilla in the palace) and the second in the line is too young to do anything but eat and sleep, the next senior royal was the most logical and appropriate representative.
Prince Carl Philip performs many of Victoria's duties while she's on maternity leave.

 

[Muhler]

On another note.

I'm pleased to see how the PoW Charles doesn't physically touch Mary's hand with his lips, as befits a true gentleman.

No wonder ladies wore gloves beforehand, lest a less than well bred person should drool all over their hands.

 

[Chimene]

^LOL, that was very funny.

 

[UserDane]

Since first in the line to the Throne was on maternity leave (which she, incidentally, later interrupted to greet Charles and Camilla in the palace) and the second in the line is too young to do anything but eat and sleep, the next senior royal was the most logical and appropriate representative.
Prince Carl Philip performs many of Victoria's duties while she's on maternity leave.

Yes, I'm aware of that. But where's the deep felt indignation that the king or queen did not greet Charles and Camilla instead?
I suppose I should conclude that indignation - also about protocol - is selective

 

[Artemisia]

Yes, I'm aware of that. But where's the deep felt indignation that the king or queen did not greet Charles and Camilla instead?
I suppose I should conclude that indignation - also about protocol - is selective

The Heads of State usually personally greet fellow Heads of State only. I agree with you that the incident has been blown out of proportions though.
As I see it, citizens of Australia met their future King and Queen on a tour honouring the glorious Jubilee of the present Monarch - end of story. I am quite certain that the Donaldsons' presence was agreed beforehand both by Danish and British courts, so no breach of protocol.
As for the tree-planting ceremony, Mr. Donaldson was obviously asked to take part in it, not pushed himself forward.

 

[Nico]

And a nice video of this fateful event :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGZFBan0GY4&list=UUTkC3Jt91QkqNAE4FGWkEIQ&index=2&feature=plpp_video

Frankly guys if the Donaldsons were there and members of the DRF were'nt, it was perfectly planned and accepted by both side and judging by the broad smile of Camilla, she and Charles were not too bothered by it.

Just enjoy the show, it's great so far. It's not necessary to spoil everything for minus details like these. Charles and Camilla were exceptionally well received during this tour, by everyone, showing a surprising, and unexepected by many, warm relationship with their continental counterparts.

 

[Viv]

I honestly don't understand why anyone can make such an ado because this event took place the way it did - no doubt with the full approval of both the Danish and English courts.

I just went through the gallery of photos from St. Albans on www.b.dk. I could swear that I saw the Danish master of ceremonies Christian Eugen-Olsen in the background in one of the tree planting shots! It's either Eugen-Olsen or a dead ringer for him! It just signals that the Danish royal court is not leaving TRH C&C to their own devices!
Maybe one of my compatriots would take the time to verify that CEO was present??
viv

 

[FasterB]

It was indeed Christian Eugen-Olsen, who was present

 

[Madame Royale]

As I see it, citizens of Australia met their future King and Queen

That visit is yet to take place, but there is to be no future Queen of Australia. Just a King. The King's wife has no constitutional position in Australia and is only accorded the style and titles of the principal realm to which she belongs, i.e; Camilla will never be Queen of Australia.

Muhler, thank you very kindly for asnwering my question. I find the question of faith and community adherence to it, a very interesting topic.

I'm pleased to see how the PoW Charles doesn't physically touch Mary's hand with his lips, as befits a true gentleman.

No wonder ladies wore gloves beforehand, lest a less than well bred person should drool all over their hands

Love it!

And again, to Muhler, UserDane and Viv, your comments and contributions to this conversation are indeed a welcome addition amongst what apparenly has turned into a nonsensical and contentious riot of opinions.

Tea anyone?

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

All of this discussion would have been rendered redundant if the DRF had provided a proper representative to attend the church service. Was there no-one within the extended DRF who could spare an hour this morning to satisfy protocol?

Having met Mr. Donaldson myself, I can assure you that no better representative could have been chosen to attend the service. He is one of the most grounded and warm people I've ever met - even though he might not be of royal descent.

 

[Nico]

Tea anyone?

With scones please

Here's a nice blog with tons of photos from this morning event (thanks to Stig on the SRMB)

INTERNATIONAL CLUB COPENHAGEN ICC NEWS: Official visit of TRH The Prince of Wales and The Duchess of Cornwall to Denmark 24-27/3 2012 on the occasion of HM The British Queen's Diamond Jubilee in The United Kingdom 2012.

 

[Kataryn]

I can really imagine that Charles saw at least a bit of the coverage of the wedding of Fred & Mary and thought: well done, Prof. Donaldson! For this was a repesentation of the historic and actual Scotland to be proud of and we all know how CHarles treasures his Scottish ancestry. Plus both Susan Donaldson and Camilla are actively engaged to support the importance of reading, so they sure have alot of topics to talk about.

IMHO it was very nice that Charles and Camilla met relatives-in-law at this event for subjects of HM Queen Elizabeth II. - after all Charles and Camilla are subjects, too!

 

[camelot23ca]

If anyone from the British or the Danish contingents involved with this visit thought it was inappropriate for the Donaldsons to be at the church then they wouldn't be there! I agree that it's unusual for royal in laws to take part in something like this, but Mary's father and stepmother are in the unique position of being connected to both the Danish royal family and the British Commonwealth, (and they might also have connections with that particular church). Therefore I can't see anything inappropriate in them taking a limited part in this fairly informal event. Certainly the British couple seemed more than comfortable with them being there.

 

[Muhler]

I find the seemingly low-key security presence interesting.
In contrast to the visit last year by W&K where you could hardly turn around without bumping into a security officer.
Wonder why? Do you think there is an added security risk against W&K or are they just more discreet (less improvised) this time?

FasterB, can you enlighten us about the outfits (messehagler, not sure what it's called in English) the clergy are wearing?

 

[FasterB]

FasterB, can you enlighten us about the outfits (messehagler, not sure what it's called in English) the clergy are wearing?

Nope, sorry, I´m not that into the english church.

But I myself are interested in hearing why they are wearing purple. You see in the danish lutheran church today we celebrated "Mariæ Bebudelse", the day where the angel Gabriel is visiting Virgin Mary telling her that she will be the mother of Jesus. (Is it called "The assumption of the announcement"?)
And here is the reason for my question: The liturgical colour in the danish church for this specific sunday is white. Are there liturgical colours in the anglican church?

 

[EIIR]

Since the Middletons are British, why should they ever agree to take part in an official engagement with a visiting royal?

Now, thanks to you and other posters, big questions were asked. The Donaldsons have been accused of being grasping social climbers with ideas above their station and attention seekers (just like their absent daughter).
I hope you all had your satisfaction of the day and we can move on now.

Yet again in the Danish forum I am accused of saying things that I obviously didn't. I did not accuse the Donaldsons of being grasping social climbers - I quite clearly stated that if the Middletons turned up to this sort of event that is how they would be considered in the UK.

I fail to see what would be so wrong with a Danish representative attending an Anglican service, even if it is for QEII. Lots of foreign royals attended a Lutheran service to celebrate Margrethe's recent jubilee, so why is it that only subjects of QEII are considered appropriate to attend?

On top of that, given Mary has much, much more British blood in her veins than any other member of a European RF, and spent most of her life as a subject of QEII, surely it would have been much more appropriate for her to attend this event?

One thing's for certain - if ever the Queen felt bad about only sending Edward and Sophie to an event in Denmark, this will have set her mind at rest.

 

[Viv]

If anyone from the British or the Danish contingents involved with this visit thought it was inappropriate for the Donaldsons to be at the church then they wouldn't be there! I agree that it's unusual for royal in laws to take part in something like this, but Mary's father and stepmother are in the unique position of being connected to both the Danish royal family and the British Commonwealth, (and they might also have connections with that particular church). Therefore I can't see anything inappropriate in them taking a limited part in this fairly informal event. Certainly the British couple seemed more than comfortable with them being there.

Camelot, at the end of the day we don't know what's taken place and been agreed on behind palace walls! It's not unlikely that the Donaldsons have met C&C over drinks or dinner at the palace yesterday... maybe they got on well.. maybe they agreed to joining the service at St. Albans... it's all speculation on my part! I'm absolutely convinced that the Danish master of ceremonies would have intervened should the Donaldsons have even contemplated to do anything untoward at St. Albans. Actually I think it's time to give Prof. and Mrs. Donaldson some credit!

viv

 

[camelot23ca]

I find the seemingly low-key security presence interesting.
In contrast to the visit last year by W&K where you could hardly turn around without bumping into a security officer.
Wonder why? Do you think there is an added security risk against W&K or are they just more discreet (less improvised) this time?

FasterB, can you enlighten us about the outfits (messehagler, not sure what it's called in English) the clergy are wearing?

I would be surprised if William and especially Kate weren't significantly higher security risks than every other member of the British RF with the exception of QEII.

 

[Madame Royale]

One thing's for certain - if ever the Queen felt bad about only sending Edward and Sophie to an event in Denmark, this will have set her mind at rest.

Oh yes, as "certain" as night and day that is.

 

[NGalitzine]

One thing's for certain - if ever the Queen felt bad about only sending Edward and Sophie to an event in Denmark, this will have set her mind at rest.

Care to elaborate because that makes no sense at all to me.

I notice when King Frederik visited Canterbury Cathedral for a service in his capacity as Colonel in Chief of a British regiment no member of the British Royal Family felt the need to attend.
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/danish-king-at-canterbury

Your view of what is proper is perhaps a bit more royal than the royals

 

[camelot23ca]

Camelot, at the end of the day we don't know what's taken place and been agreed on behind palace walls! It's not unlikely that the Donaldsons have met C&C over drinks or dinner at the palace yesterday... maybe they got on well.. maybe they agreed to joining the service at St. Albans... it's all speculation on my part! I'm absolutely convinced that the Danish master of ceremonies would have intervened should the Donaldsons have even contemplated to do anything untoward at St. Albans. Actually I think it's time to give Prof. and Mrs. Donaldson some credit!

viv

I believe that's pretty much what I said?

 

[Viv]

Nope, sorry, I´m not that into the english church.

FasterB
A messehagel is a chasuble !

I wondered about the colour purple as well, it could be the bishop's robe, but I won't bet on it. I'm not sure whether the liturgical colours work in the same way as in Denmark. Ask me again in two months time, and I will know more about it!

viv

 

[FasterB]

Nope, sorry, I´m not that into the english church.

FasterB
A messehagel is a chasuble !

I wondered about the colour purple as well, it could be the bishop's robe, but I won't bet on it. I'm not sure whether the liturgical colours work in the same way as in Denmark. Ask me again in two months time, and I will know more about it!

viv

Thank you, Viv

I have tried to google the liturgical colors in the anglican church and they all say white is the color to wear at "The assumption of the announcement" and since this is the exact day, then I´m still curios as to why he wears the lent color (purple)