The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 1: 2010-2022

[Osipi]

I think, perhaps, one reason that some of the names of the rich and famous seem to have disappeared into a fog is probably due to being interrogated and checked out and it was found that they were *not* part of Epstein's secret life.

Epstein was well known in the business field and I'm sure that the *majority* of people that met and mixed with the man had no clue what was going on in his "other" life. Kind of like a Jeckyll and Hyde thing.

It's kind of hard sometimes to remember that this sordid life of Epstein's wasn't the only "life" he had. The man was known to be paranoid and he wouldn't be careless to just let anyone in on what's at his house.

 

[Curryong]

But weren’t many of the names listed as associates of Epstein who used the services of these girls people who had flown to Epstein’s notorious island where many sexual encounters were alleged to have taken place? The pilot who flew these men (and some women) there had documentation that they were flown by him in Epstein’s private plane.

 

[Denville]

I think, perhaps, one reason that some of the names of the rich and famous seem to have disappeared into a fog is probably due to being interrogated and checked out and it was found that they were *not* part of Epstein's secret life.

Epstein was well known in the business field and I'm sure that the *majority* of people that met and mixed with the man had no clue what was going on in his "other" life. Kind of like a Jeckyll and Hyde thing.

It's kind of hard sometimes to remember that this sordid life of Epstein's wasn't the only "life" he had. The man was known to be paranoid and he wouldn't be careless to just let anyone in on what's at his house.

But it seems that his house was full of crude sexual images. Hard to imagine that his guests didn't know how he thought and what his lifestyle was....

 

[Osipi]

But weren’t many of the names listed as associates of Epstein who used the services of these girls people who had flown to Epstein’s notorious island where many sexual encounters were alleged to have taken place? The pilot who flew these men (and some women) there had documentation that they were flown by him in Epstein’s private plane.

Oh right, there's those manifests. It doesn't necessarily point to being in the "inner circle". A lot could be business associates that just gave Epstein's "sweethearts" a stink eye and refused those kinds of offers and just got down to business.

A lot of "could be" out there and all we have to go on is what is reported in the media.

 

[Denville]

Oh right, there's those manifests. It doesn't necessarily point to being in the "inner circle". A lot could be business associates that just gave Epstein's "sweethearts" a stink eye and refused those kinds of offers and just got down to business.

A lot of "could be" out there and all we have to go on is what is reported in the media.

Epstein's lifestyle was clearly a crude one where he supplied girls for his associates and was keen on sex and none too refined in his approach towards it... Visitors to his house said that there was a lot of vulgar sexual imagery in the decor. I think anyone who had more than a very casual acquantance with him was aware of how his mind work and what he liked doing...

 

[Osipi]

Epstein's lifestyle was clearly a crude one where he supplied girls for his associates and was keen on sex and none too refined in his approach towards it... Visitors to his house said that there was a lot of vulgar sexual imagery in the decor. I think anyone who had more than a very casual acquantance with him was aware of how his mind work and what he liked doing...

With what I know about Epstein, he used to be very cautious around people and that leads me to think that Epstein would have to build a bit of trust with anyone before including that person in his personal life.

Case in point. Erotic art doesn't necessarily point to a person having a "dark" side. The late Prince Henrik of Denmark had quite the collection himself and I don't thing there's any kind of an indication that the man had a "dark" side reflected by his art collection.

https://newsbeezer.com/norwayeng/prince-henrik-spends-millions-on-penis-art/

Good to see you Denville, I'd wondered where you got yourself off to. ?

 

[vulture]

It will be interesting to see if there is any evidence of the other alleged dates and times of sexual encounters could be further investigated. For example, was Andrew even in a location when the alleged activity occurred. Can the additional incidents be proven false. That’s different than proving true - but if they can’t be proven false that won’t look good.

 

[Osipi]

It will be interesting to see if there is any evidence of the other alleged dates and times of sexual encounters could be further investigated. For example, was Andrew even in a location when the alleged activity occurred. Can the additional incidents be proven false. That’s different than proving true - but if they can’t be proven false that won’t look good.

My memory is out to lunch right now but without it, I seem to recall that once upon a time those investigating the allegations wanted to get a hold of Andrew's movements from his RPOs. It obviously didn't happen but in my way of thinking, that would be a *definite* way to prove where Andrew was probably just about any time. I would think Andrew's itinerary would be on file with the Metropolitan Police.

I'm sure someone remembers better than I do today.

 

[sophie25]

There must be logs of where his police protection officers were that night he supposedly was at Tramps. It can't be difficult to find them surely.

 

[Osipi]

There must be logs of where his police protection officers were that night he supposedly was at Tramps. It can't be difficult to find them surely.

Perhaps the problems with that lies with the Met Police refusing to release the logs? I really don't know but that would make sense. In a lawsuit, the logs could be subpoenaed but as no criminal charges are filed against Andrew, the Met Police has the right to refuse? Just thinking out loud here.

 

[Curryong]

Reluctant though I am to print any link to the Fail, the article below, involving another Met officer who wished to complain about Andrew’s alleged abusive behaviour on another occasion, seems to raise the possibility that duty records of individual RPOs are only kept for two years.

Therefore any records, or not, of attendance at pizza restaurants or West End nightclubs, have almost certainly long gone into the incinerator at Scotland Yard.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...cords-Prince-Andrews-Pizza-Express-alibi.html

 

[Osipi]

Reluctant though I am to print any link to the Fail, the article below, involving another Met officer who wished to complain about Andrew’s alleged abusive behaviour on another occasion, seems to raise the possibility that duty records of individual RPOs are only kept for two years.

Therefore any record, or not, of attendance at pizza restaurants or West End nightclubs, have almost certainly long gone into the incinerator at Scotland Yard.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...cords-Prince-Andrews-Pizza-Express-alibi.html

That makes sense to me. The incident involving the pizza place and Tramps took place in 2001 and to keep logs up to this date just seems to be kind of a waste.

 

[sophie25]

Perhaps the problems with that lies with the Met Police refusing to release the logs? I really don't know but that would make sense. In a lawsuit, the logs could be subpoenaed but as no criminal charges are filed against Andrew, the Met Police has the right to refuse? Just thinking out loud here.

I was thinking the same thing. For years now the Met has given the impression it just doesn't want to know where Andrew's relationship with Epstein is concerned.

 

[Osipi]

I was thinking the same thing. For years now the Met has given the impression it just doesn't want to know where Andrew's relationship with Epstein is concerned.

I think that became clear when the Met Police deemed that the incident was not a criminal case and had no need for further investigation. That's their stance on it (the London incident only and only one in the UK that I know of).

 

[victor1319]

I was thinking the same thing. For years now the Met has given the impression it just doesn't want to know where Andrew's relationship with Epstein is concerned.

Even all the quarrels surrounding Prince Harry won't make this nasty story go away. There is something deeper to it: The elites and all, "do as I say but not as I do" ... this stuff.

 

[vulture]

If there are no official records available for whatever reason, is there other evidence that could be searched out? News articles about his whereabouts for example.

 

[sophie25]

If there are no official records available for whatever reason, is there other evidence that could be searched out? News articles about his whereabouts for example.

I wonder if the protection officers who were with him at Tramps that night remember it.

 

[Leopoldine]

I remember reading not too long ago that Andrew's main protection officer at the time in question is now deceased.

 

[Denville]

Im sure Andrew's officers were used to seeing him with girls when he split up with Fergie and are they likley to remember one unless she was very very beautiful

 

[Sandy345]

He was friends with two criminals Epstein and Ghislaine. He should have cut ties with them or better yet steered cleared of the pair of them.

 

[Erin9]

He was friends with two criminals Epstein and Ghislaine. He should have cut ties with them or better yet steered cleared of the pair of them.

True. That said- a lot of other prominent people didn’t either.

 

[Osipi]

He was friends with two criminals Epstein and Ghislaine. He should have cut ties with them or better yet steered cleared of the pair of them.

True. That said- a lot of other prominent people didn’t either.

Up until 2008, no one was "branded" as a criminal and, to be honest, Ghislaine Maxwell is only accused of criminal activity and remains to be tried and convicted.

Not everyone was privy to Epstein/Maxwell's inner circle prior to 2008 and with the light "sweetheart" deal Epstein attained in his Florida conviction, people who were already his friend were possibly able to overlook this "slip" in behavior. It's possible that Andrew was in this category among many others.

Who knows? But to actively brand both Epstein and Maxwell from the get go as "criminals" and to suggest the those that knew them should have cut ties immediately with them is too cut and dried to apply to this situation.

 

[Curryong]

Andrew wasnt a mere social acquaintance of this person though. He visited his home and island on several occasions. To continue their friendship with Epstein Andrew (and others) would have had to ignore the bizarre interior decorations in his home, including a female nude hanging from a prominent chandelier, a painting of Bill Clinton in drag in the same New York mansion, photos of very young girls nude and semi-nude everywhere, and a chess set of the same kind, modelled from individuals among his young ‘staff’, who ‘massaged’ their employer’s guests on demand.

They would also have had to ignore the man’s vulgar, sexual referenced conversation at all times, and the very young girls who appeared in his homes and travelled on his private plane without parents or guardians.

As well as the criminal conviction, which Epstein apparently made no secret of. In fact he had a mural of a jail walls and towers painted in his home. I’ve heard of people being deaf and blind to friends’ failings and peccadilloes but IMO to be a friend of Epstein’s and not know what was going on would mean being totally comatose!

 

[Osipi]

You make some very strong and valid points, Curryong, that there was a multitude of red flags quite visible to anyone that came into Epstein's personal world and Andrew, most definitely, in that category. Perhaps in that world, there were too many people that had the attitude of "what can Epstein do for me" that prevailed rather than "this guy is straight up dangerous and needs to be avoided at all costs". Some people can and do look the other way on things when something will benefit themselves. Perhaps a painting of Bill Clinton in drag met with the same response as Prince Henrik of Denmark's erotic art when visitors came across it? I really don't know.

My point though was that up until 2008, neither Epstein or Maxwell were labeled as "criminals" and until convicted, Maxwell stands at only being accused of criminal activity.

We just don't know how those that associated with Epstein actually saw the man. For some, Epstein well could have been a mixture of Santa Claus and Midas with Maxwell being his sidekick as Heidi Fleiss: The Sequel.

 

[Leopoldine]

There were a number of eminent personages that JE brought into his sex massage game. There were sharp guys who had to have known the score, but there were some others, senior citizen-age MIT guys with little sophistication outside of the lab and doddering retired statesmen.

The sharp guys are too sharp for VG to go after. To a man, they would be comfortable in a courtroom.

The other weaker older bunch don't have the money or prospects of it. Plus the optics would be horrible for VG. These men of real accomplishment will come off as the real victims, as JE wanted their association for his own credibility, but at the same time allegedly set them up with VG and got it on camera.

 

[sophie25]

Andrew wasnt a mere social acquaintance of this person though. He visited his home and island on several occasions. To continue their friendship with Epstein Andrew (and others) would have had to ignore the bizarre interior decorations in his home, including a female nude hanging from a prominent chandelier, a painting of Bill Clinton in drag in the same New York mansion, photos of very young girls nude and semi-nude everywhere, and a chess set of the same kind, modelled from individuals among his young ‘staff’, who ‘massaged’ their employer’s guests on demand.

They would also have had to ignore the man’s vulgar, sexual referenced conversation at all times, and the very young girls who appeared in his homes and travelled on his private plane without parents or guardians.

As well as the criminal conviction, which Epstein apparently made no secret of. In fact he had a mural of a jail walls and towers painted in his home. I’ve heard of people being deaf and blind to friends’ failings and peccadilloes but IMO to be a friend of Epstein’s and not know what was going on would mean being totally comatose!

You sum it up perfectly and if Andrew and others were having sexual relations with these young girls then they were complicit in their abuse and deserve all that comes to them now.

 

[Lady Daly]

Slated to debut on U.K. broadcaster Channel 4 following the conclusion of the trial, which is anticipated to end in early 2022, “Ghislaine Maxwell: Life on Trial”
https://variety.com/2021/tv/global/ghislaine-maxwell-doc-starz-all3media-1235085873/

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The Metropolitan police released a statement on October 10: "As a matter of procedure MPS officers reviewed a document released in August 2021 as part of a US civil action. This review has concluded and we are taking no further action. We also reviewed information passed to us by a media organisation in June 2021. This review is complete and no further action will be taken."

The statement did not name the Duke of York or Virginia Giuffre, but the "US civil action" was understood to mean Virginia Giuffre's civil lawsuit against the Duke.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-met-police-drops-probe-25181401
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58866108

This was the Metropolitan Police's third review into allegations relating to Jeffrey Epstein.

https://www.timesandstar.co.uk/news...one-law-says-met-chief-duke-york-allegations/

 

[Osipi]

One thing this tells me is that after three looks into this matter and declaring that there's nothing to further take action on, it pretty much leaves out any chances that the UK would *ever* extradite Andrew to the US to appear in court over matters relating to his involvement with Epstein/Maxwell.

In order to extradite Andrew to the US, the Met Police would have had to determine that Andrew committed a crime punishable by at least a year in prison according to UK law and that hasn't been met anywhere by anybody.

It looks to me like the US civil case that Giuffre has filed may end up being a solely "he said, she said" kind of procedure and I seriously doubt Andrew will participate.

 

[Hallo girl]

Could I ask fellow posters if other people are being named in any of these actions and if not why do you think that is?