The Future of the British Monarchy 1: 2018 - 2022

[AC21091968]

This article in the Telegraph is wonderful. It's about the cohesiveness of the three official Royal Households, and some favorable views on how they complement each other. I'm sorry I don't know that archive link for Telegraph non-members.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-f...abeth-prince-william-kate-cambridges-charles/

Here is the archived link to the article: https://archive.ph/K3AJE

It was a great article summarising the year of 2021 for The Royal Family including the events and controversy. I cannot help but think that Hannah Furness, Royal Correspondent and author of the article is making a slight dig at the BBC with "three royal households finally united in adversity", where Amol Rajan claimed (paraphrasing) that the royal household work in silos.

I used this website to find the archive link. If the article is not archived, it can do it for you without having a membership. However, sometimes it may not fully capture the article
https://archive.ph/

I actually learn about archiving website from some lovely members on this Royal Forum.

 

[Osipi]

Thanks for posting the archived link. This is a definite must read and really gives good insight into how the royal family has pulled together and coped with very difficult times.

 

[travelguy]

I was thinking about this on Xmas day but what do we think Prince Charles Christmas King's speech will be like. It will feel so strange

 

[muriel]

I was thinking about this on Xmas day but what do we think Prince Charles Christmas King's speech will be like. It will feel so strange

The start of each reign brings change, just like the start of a new premiership for each new PM. I am sure we will all adjust and get used to the new regime in no time.

 

[Mbruno]

The start of each reign brings change, just like the start of a new premiership for each new PM. I am sure we will all adjust and get used to the new regime in no time.

The most strange thing will be to hear the anthem sung again as God Save The King with verses like "God Save our gracious King", "Send Him victorious" and so on.

 

[travelguy]

Question but when Prince Charles has his coronation are we expecting london to be decorated like it was for the queen. Also what comes first his coronation or Prince William's inversture as Prince of Wales

 

[Osipi]

Question but when Prince Charles has his coronation are we expecting london to be decorated like it was for the queen. Also what comes first his coronation or Prince William's inversture as Prince of Wales

Considering that Charles' coronation is a definite thing that *is* going to happen while Charles deciding if and when to invest his eldest son as The Prince of Wales is totally something that is known only to Charles at this time, I'd wager right now that the *only* given event sure to happen would be Charles' coronation.

I'm pretty sure that as most people alive on the planet today cannot remember the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II in 1953 (I was a year old), a British coronation is going to be something *huge* for everybody. I expect all the pomp and circumstance and the banners and street parties but also elements implemented to reflect the 21st century we're living in.

 

[Denville]

Considering that Charles' coronation is a definite thing that *is* going to happen while Charles deciding if and when to invest his eldest son as The Prince of Wales is totally something that is known only to Charles at this time, I'd wager right now that the *only* given event sure to happen would be Charles' coronation.

I'm pretty sure that as most people alive on the planet today cannot remember the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II in 1953 (I was a year old), a British coronation is going to be something *huge* for everybody. I expect all the pomp and circumstance and the banners and street parties but also elements implemented to reflect the 21st century we're living in.

I'd say that Williams investiture will be a simple ceremony whereas a coronation takes quite a while to organize

 

[Osipi]

I'd say that Williams investiture will be a simple ceremony whereas a coronation takes quite a while to organize

I think it'll be a simple thing also. Not a staged event like Charles' was in Wales. Reason being is that when Charles was invested as the PoW, he was already created the PoW in 1958 but invested in full ceremony in 1969 and it was pretty much a given that Charles would step into that role for quite a considerable amount of time.

With Charles coming to the throne at a much older age, William's role as the PoW will not be such a long one as Charles' was. In fact, I'd even wager that if we scanned history books perusing Charles' reign, it more or less could even be defined as a transitional reign between Charles and William.

I believe that it'll be Charles with consultation with his son and heir, that will usher in a lot more of what the UK will come to know as "the modernized monarchy of the UK". ?

 

[Denville]

Yeah I'd say it will be a very simple ceremony with a few witnesses, nothing bit. Mabye they will do it before Charles' coronation....

 

[Hans-Rickard]

Question but when Prince Charles has his coronation are we expecting london to be decorated like it was for the queen. Also what comes first his coronation or Prince William's inversture as Prince of Wales

I have no doubts that London will be richly decorated. The next british coronation will be the first british coronation most living people has ever experienced.

IF Prince William is invested as Prince of Wales, it will likely come shortly after the coronation. I don’t think The King will put a Coronet on anyones head, before every peer has put their coronets on their heads in front of him...
In 1911 the Coronation of The King was on 22 June and the investiture of The Prince of Wales was on 13 July...

 

[Iluvbertie]

There is no need for an investiture of a Prince of Wales at all so it may be that there won't even be one. I would expect that William will be created PoW before the coronation and take his oath of allegiance to Charles as Prince of Wales and not as Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge. If so there really is no need for an investiture, which is really the Prince of Wales swearing allegiance to the monarch. The style of investiture that both Edward VIII and Charles had was a 20th Century invention and prior Princes of Wales were invested simply in the House of Lords, if any ceremony took place at all.

I expect that Charles' coronation will be a much smaller affair than The Queen's e.g. I doubt if Health and Safety will allow them to put 8000 in WA. There were 2000 for William's wedding and I expect about the same maximum for any future coronations. I am not sure that the Gold Coach would be used again - given the cost of refurbishing it as, according to those who work at the Royal Mews whom I have asked, it has to be re-gilded every time it is used and that cost a couple of million in 2002 and so would be a lot more now.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there are only two coaches/carriages used - one for Charles and Camilla and one for William and Catherine, especially with Charles' rumoured 'smaller royal family'. That will be when that concept really becomes obvious to the world if it is to happen, so no extended family in coaches/carriages or on the balcony or in any released pictures.

 

[Leopoldine]

The crown that Charles wore at his investiture was unique, and of its time. I think his son William would do anything to avoid wearing it, unless he agreed to play Spock's father Sarek in a charity performance of some sort where the donations would top a billion dollars.

Was Oliver Messel involved in that investiture pageant? I liked the chairs, and HM's hat. At that time, National Geographic magazine had a huge many-paged photo array of the investiture. HM's hat made the biggest impression.

 

[HenRach Dominion]

Another question about British coronation: who typically gives an oath of allegiance to the monarch during the ceremony?

 

[Iluvbertie]

The Archbishop of Canterbury, The Archbishop of York, any adult sons of the monarch (over about 15/16), any brothers who are also peers of the realm, any other HRHs who are peers of the realm and then the leading peer in each degree - Duke, Marquis, Earl, Viscount and Baron.

As things currently stand - with no further deaths in order:

1. The Archbishop of Canterbury
2. The Archbishop of York
3. The Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge (maybe as Prince of Wales)
4. The Duke of Sussex
5. The Duke of York
6. The Earl of Wessex (maybe as Duke of Edinburgh)
7. The Duke of Gloucester
8. The Duke of Kent
9. The leading Duke (The Duke of Norfolk)
10. The leading Marquis
11. The leading Earl
12. The leading Viscount
13. The leading Baron

I wouldn't be surprised however if the Duke of York doesn't do so as I doubt he will be allowed to attend the Coronation or any other event during Charles' reign.

Princess Anne isn't a Peer of the Realm and is female which traditionally means she doesn't get to swear allegiance to the monarch. I can see her, though, insisting on the same right to do so as Edward.

The Earl of Snowdon isn't HRH and so would take his oath with the other Earls, while the senior Earl takes the oath in person. The same if the Duke of Gloucester or Kent have passed by then then their sons would take their oaths with the other Dukes and not in person.

The present Duke of Kent is the only person alive today who made their oath to Queen Elizabeth at her coronation.

 

[JoanHarry]

The crown that Charles wore at his investiture was unique, and of its time. I think his son William would do anything to avoid wearing it, unless he agreed to play Spock's father Sarek in a charity performance of some sort where the donations would top a billion dollars.

This is hilarious, if you know what the coronet looks like:
https://www.townandcountrymag.com/s...les-prince-of-wales-coronet-history-designer/
?

 

[Claire]

Is there a law that states the oath must be done in public, at Westminster?
I expect Harry would have confirmed his American citizenship by then - and would be ineligible.
But honestly I expect this to happen behind closed doors, if at all. I think that a homage service of ordinary people might happen at Westminster.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The homage is a very public event - it isn't just an oath to the monarch but a public display of loyalty. It isn't a law per se but a 1000+ year old tradition with a very real meaning. The public side of it is a public show of support for the monarch.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

There is no need for an investiture of a Prince of Wales at all so it may be that there won't even be one. I would expect that William will be created PoW before the coronation and take his oath of allegiance to Charles as Prince of Wales and not as Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge. If so there really is no need for an investiture, which is really the Prince of Wales swearing allegiance to the monarch. The style of investiture that both Edward VIII and Charles had was a 20th Century invention and prior Princes of Wales were invested simply in the House of Lords, if any ceremony took place at all.

I expect that Charles' coronation will be a much smaller affair than The Queen's e.g. I doubt if Health and Safety will allow them to put 8000 in WA. There were 2000 for William's wedding and I expect about the same maximum for any future coronations. I am not sure that the Gold Coach would be used again - given the cost of refurbishing it as, according to those who work at the Royal Mews whom I have asked, it has to be re-gilded every time it is used and that cost a couple of million in 2002 and so would be a lot more now.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there are only two coaches/carriages used - one for Charles and Camilla and one for William and Catherine, especially with Charles' rumoured 'smaller royal family'. That will be when that concept really becomes obvious to the world if it is to happen, so no extended family in coaches/carriages or on the balcony or in any released pictures.

Wouldn’t all the Royal Colonels follow the Gold State Coach (or wichever coach Charles will use) on horseback ?
If so, it would rule out William arriving in a coach.

I also don’t expect the next coronation to be on the same scale as in 1953 or 1937, but they can’t downgrade it too much, while still defending to hold a coronation at all....

If they want to go for something similar as in Amsterdam in 2013, it’s better to call it for what it is. An investiture, and not a coronation...

I’m also not sure that William will be sworn in at Caernarfon Castle, pending that he will be appointed Prince of Wales at all... Maybe a simple ceremony in the Welsh Sendedd building in Cardiff would be more likely if any ceremony at all....
Holding it in the House of Parliament in London would generate serious welsh protests no doubt...

 

[Osipi]

Is there a law that states the oath must be done in public, at Westminster?
I expect Harry would have confirmed his American citizenship by then - and would be ineligible.
But honestly I expect this to happen behind closed doors, if at all. I think that a homage service of ordinary people might happen at Westminster.

This is one thing I do not expect ever to happen. That Harry will forsake his British heritage and citizenship for an American one. He's doing just fine now with an American wife and children that will have dual citizenship. He doesn't *need* to become a naturalized American citizen at all.

Just my 2 cents worth here.

 

[muriel]

Wouldn’t all the Royal Colonels follow the Gold State Coach (or wichever coach Charles will use) on horseback ?
If so, it would rule out William arriving in a coach.

I also don’t expect the next coronation to be on the same scale as in 1953 or 1937, but they can’t downgrade it too much, while still defending to hold a coronation at all....

If they want to go for something similar as in Amsterdam in 2013, it’s better to call it for what it is. An investiture, and not a coronation...

I’m also not sure that William will be sworn in at Caernarfon Castle, pending that he will be appointed Prince of Wales at all... Maybe a simple ceremony in the Welsh Sendedd building in Cardiff would be more likely if any ceremony at all....
Holding it in the House of Parliament in London would generate serious welsh protests no doubt...

Whilst I can see the overall scale of the ceremonial being reduced to be in line with the times, I do not see the religious element of the coronation being tweaked too much. And so, it will still very much be a coronation, and not an investiture.

I think William will be proclaimed Prince of Wales quite soon after Charles ascends the throne. The ceremony around it will probably be much smaller, possibly in the Welsh Assembly, and I suspect will take places a few months after the coronation of the King.

 

[muriel]

This is one thing I do not expect ever to happen. That Harry will forsake his British heritage and citizenship for an American one. He's doing just fine now with an American wife and children that will have dual citizenship. He doesn't *need* to become a naturalized American citizen at all.

Just my 2 cents worth here.

I appreciate your sentiment, and do not disagree with you in that I see no reason for Harry to become a naturalised US citizen. But then again, I see no reason for him to behave in the unpleasant manner he has, so who knows what he might do in the future, driven by a desire for revenge, not being the sharpest tool in the shed, and being led on by his wife!

 

[Denville]

This is one thing I do not expect ever to happen. That Harry will forsake his British heritage and citizenship for an American one. He's doing just fine now with an American wife and children that will have dual citizenship. He doesn't *need* to become a naturalized American citizen at all.

Just my 2 cents worth here.

I think he might do so.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

This is one thing I do not expect ever to happen. That Harry will forsake his British heritage and citizenship for an American one. He's doing just fine now with an American wife and children that will have dual citizenship. He doesn't *need* to become a naturalized American citizen at all.

Just my 2 cents worth here.

The Duke of Windsor remained a British citizen as well, while married to an American and living abroad in a foreign country.

 

[muriel]

The Duke of Windsor remained a British citizen as well, while married to an American and living abroad in a foreign country.

Indeed. Though we are in vastly different times, and are dealing with different individuals.

 

[Winnie]

Indeed. Though we are in vastly different times, and are dealing with different individuals.

That sure is certainly 100% the truth.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

By my knowledge the Duke and Duchess of Windsor never hung the royal family's dirty laundry out of the window. That already is a difference.

 

[muriel]

By my knowledge the Duke and Duchess of Windsor never hung the royal family's dirty laundry out of the window. That already is a difference.

Well said.

 

[Marengo]

By my knowledge the Duke and Duchess of Windsor never hung the royal family's dirty laundry out of the window. That already is a difference.

The Duke wrote an autobiography in the 1950s:

https://books.google.com.au/books/about/A_King_s_Story.html?id=mmg0AAAACAAJ

 

[Mbruno]

I appreciate your sentiment, and do not disagree with you in that I see no reason for Harry to become a naturalised US citizen. But then again, I see no reason for him to behave in the unpleasant manner he has, so who knows what he might do in the future, driven by a desire for revenge, not being the sharpest tool in the shed, and being led on by his wife!

The problem is that pledging allegiance to the British monarch at the coronation ceremony would be incompatible with Harry's citizenship oath in the United States if he becomes a US citizen. Harry would also have to give up his British titles prior to taking the citizenship oath. I can't honestly see him doing that.