The Family and Lineage of Princess Michael of Kent

[Kit]

Well if the Imperial house of Habsburg doesn't have a problem with Princess Michael and her descendance then the british pulic shouldn't have either. She was friends with the late AD Otto and his wife who was Grand Mistress of the order. She was at Otto's funeral wearing the order and she was friends with the late Empress Zita of Austria who was also Grand Mistress. And believe me these lovely ladies from the Order are ready to "kill" anyone who has the audacity to request a membership while not being able to fulfill the required 16 noble ancestors ;-) They are still very touchy about these things given the fact that the members of the Order were the so-called "appartementmäßigen damen" which can be translated with "the ladies who are allowed to enter the apartments of the Empress which was the biggest privilege for ladies within the monarchy.

 

[Kataryn]

Well if the Imperial house of Habsburg doesn't have a problem with Princess Michael and her descendance then the british pulic shouldn't have either. She was friends with the late AD Otto and his wife who was Grand Mistress of the order. She was at Otto's funeral wearing the order and she was friends with the late Empress Zita of Austria who was also Grand Mistress. And believe me these lovely ladies from the Order are ready to "kill" anyone who has the audacity to request a membership while not being able to fulfill the required 16 noble ancestors ;-) They are still very touchy about these things given the fact that the members of the Order were the so-called "appartementmäßigen damen" which can be translated with "the ladies who are allowed to enter the apartments of the Empress which was the biggest privilege for ladies within the monarchy.

I can only second Kit in this - if there was at least some reason to question the legitimacy of Princess Michael, she would never have been awarded this order!

 

[Marc23]

I know Wikipedia isn't exactly a reliable source

Official site of Britsih monarchy also says she is,or rather was a Baroness,prior to her marriage:

The Royal Family > TRH Prince and Princess Michael of Kent > Marriage and family

 

[Yekaterina]

Well if the Imperial house of Habsburg doesn't have a problem with Princess Michael and her descendance then the british pulic shouldn't have either. She was friends with the late AD Otto and his wife who was Grand Mistress of the order. She was at Otto's funeral wearing the order and she was friends with the late Empress Zita of Austria who was also Grand Mistress. And believe me these lovely ladies from the Order are ready to "kill" anyone who has the audacity to request a membership while not being able to fulfill the required 16 noble ancestors ;-) They are still very touchy about these things given the fact that the members of the Order were the so-called "appartementmäßigen damen" which can be translated with "the ladies who are allowed to enter the apartments of the Empress which was the biggest privilege for ladies within the monarchy.

thank you for information kit. very informative kit and it is logical. but there is something i do not understand now. where are the two persons who told the opposite now? i repeat : this is serious. two persons telling us with very much self confidence that a princess has lied about her background and they have told she is illegitimate. they joked about it as if it was clear like crystals. i asked them to defend the serious things they said. no answer. why? one of them i saw online here yesterday, posting other things. how can such people be taken serious now? who will believe them? and why not coming back and say something? maybe they know more than we know. then i say please tell us your truth. but this is behaving of cowards.

 

[Marc23]

Not only she is a descendant of Diane de Poitiers, Henri II's mistress, but she is also of Henri II's wife Catherine...

What is more interesting is that Diane de Poitiers and Catherine de Medici were second cousins as Diane's grandmother Jeanne de la Tour d'Auvergne was sister of Catherine's grandfather Jean I de La Tour, Count of Auvergne

 

[D'Arbanville]

Sure it can be perceived as "only hearsay" since we were not there. But I happened to know a great Hungarian lady in London (unfortunately she had passed away a few years ago) who had personally known Countess Szapary, a fellow Hungarian. She had told me that the Countess was not shy to use swear words or other colorful language. Besides, calling someone a "peasant" is a very common derogatory expression in Hungarian for someone without class, manner or education. Or just for the sake of it, if you want to degrade someone. Actually, this is very mild compare to other expressions. One of the most common swearings in Hungarian is "horse's prick up your ass", so calling someone a peasant is not that outrageous in Hungarian.

 

[Marc23]

Sure it can be perceived as "only hearsay" since we were not there. But I happened to know a great Hungarian lady in London (unfortunately she had passed away a few years ago) who had personally known Countess Szapary, a fellow Hungarian. She had told me that the Countess was not shy to use swear words or other colorful language. Besides, calling someone a "peasant" is a very common derogatory expression in Hungarian for someone without class, manner or education. Or just for the sake of it, if you want to degrade someone. Actually, this is very mild compare to other expressions. One of the most common swearings in Hungarian is "horse's prick up your ass", so calling someone a peasant is not that outrageous in Hungarian.

You haven't quoted anything so I don't know to whom are you replying and didn't understand this thing with swearing...who sweared to whom,why,when etc?Thnx

 

[D'Arbanville]

Princess Michael's brother Fred is a low-key chap - a retired civil servant in suburban Australia, he does a lot of charity work for "riding for the disabled". He had a daughter out of wedlock in Australia in about 1978 (with a work colleague who shared his love of horses), and his daughter is a professional photographer. Von Reibnitz is married to a fellow retired civil servant. The story around Sydney was that Princess Michael's mother referred to the work colleague as "just a peasant" at the time.

Sorry, this is the missing quote I was replying to.

 

[D'Arbanville]

I don't know if MC's mother had ever referred to that woman as 'just a peasant' - that's only hearsay after all , right? - what I know is that Fred's family had serious reasons not to approve that work colleague as a possible bride. I'd consider such a person as inappropriate too, if a member of my own family was involved in such an affair. I don't wish to elaborate, just want to make clear that any possible negative reaction in that case was totally understandable and even justifiable IMO.

And this...

 

[Dierna23]

Sure it can be perceived as "only hearsay" since we were not there. But I happened to know a great Hungarian lady in London (unfortunately she had passed away a few years ago) who had personally known Countess Szapary, a fellow Hungarian. She had told me that the Countess was not shy to use swear words or other colorful language. Besides, calling someone a "peasant" is a very common derogatory expression in Hungarian for someone without class, manner or education. Or just for the sake of it, if you want to degrade someone. Actually, this is very mild compare to other expressions. One of the most common swearings in Hungarian is "horse's prick up your ass", so calling someone a peasant is not that outrageous in Hungarian.

I must admit that where I've been raised (in Germany near the French border where we speak a funny dialect that is quite influenced by French), "peasant" is a common expression for some people, without manners especially, too. During my childhood I've heard many elder people using it quite loosely. I think in English "peasant" might be a bigger insult than in some other languages/cultures.

Thanks for the info, D'Arbanville! Is there any other interesting info the Hungarian lady shared with you about Countess Szapary?

 

[Marc23]

I must admit that where I've been raised (in Germany near the French border where we speak a funny dialect that is quite influenced by French), "peasant" is a common expression for some people, without manners especially, too.

In my country also...when you want to describe how primitive the other person is,you use the word "peasant" just to describe his or her primitiveness...

 

[Kataryn]

I must admit that where I've been raised (in Germany near the French border where we speak a funny dialect that is quite influenced by French), "peasant" is a common expression for some people, without manners especially, too.

Dierna, where are you from? Saarland or Pfalz? Anyway, where I grew up "Bauer" - which is the translation of "peasant" - was common as well, especially with the old lady friends of my grandmother, who were very keen on good manners. and my mother still says of her own daughter-in-law that she is a nice girl but her manners are quite a bit peasantish... Meaning she does eg not serve the tea in the style my mother is used to from her upbringing, does not use linen on her table but a washable piece of waxcloth, does not automatically offers a drink to guests or a cookie with the tea.... Things like that. Sometimes when we throw a dinner party for the friends of my son I find my self sometimes say very nicely that some things are simply not done at my table but so far my son told always afterwards that my advice is accepted by his friends as they seem to want a bit of help with manners (I am sometimes even asked!) so I don't feel it is unpolite to comment in that situation which in any other it would be, of course.

 

[Dierna23]

Saarland and whenever I'm back home, I use to speak Moselle Franconian. I took it as an example because this area is generally provincial. No nobility, no real upper class and yet many of those whose ancestors may have in fact been peasants, use peasant (yes, it's "Bauer" here as well - and it is also one of the rather "nice" insults ) very loosely. Yes, in the broadest sense it may be class mentality, but in everyday life it is just a word to describe someone who doesn't have manners. I know and understand your examples very well. My own grandfather (born 1916) was for sure not snobby, but very demanding when it came to good manners. I guess, if he wasn't already dead, he would die again if he had to see some of the things that are common nowadays.

However, I can also understand that it seems snobby if, of all people, a Countess calls someone else "peasant", but it may have been just another insult for her, just like for us "commoners" too...

 

[D'Arbanville]

I must admit that where I've been raised (in Germany near the French border where we speak a funny dialect that is quite influenced by French), "peasant" is a common expression for some people, without manners especially, too. During my childhood I've heard many elder people using it quite loosely. I think in English "peasant" might be a bigger insult than in some other languages/cultures.

Thanks for the info, D'Arbanville! Is there any other interesting info the Hungarian lady shared with you about Countess Szapary?

Unfortunately we were not discussing the countess in more details, I only remember that she had mentioned that the countess was a down to Earth person and not shy to use "colorful language"...

 

[Marc23]

Silesia was for a long time a part of Austria (what's more there was a part of Silesia which was called Austrian-Silesia and was part of the Austrian Empire until 1918 !!!) and therefore several persons till today still claim themselves Austrian. Princess Michael's family including herself most certainly does! She was born in Karlsbad which was a part of the Austrian-Hungarian Monarchy until 1918 and where the family estates of her grandmother were situated.

True,but her ancestors from von Reibnitz side,although from Silesia,were Prussian subjects...

Marie-Christine's direct ancestor Baron Karl von Reibnitz(1803-1856) was Prussian Royal Councillor and Director of Customs,while his brother Emil was President of the Royal Prussian Commission.

In Schloss Charlottenburg in 1857,only a year after their father died(Baron Karl von Reibnitz died in 1856),Allerhöchste Kabinettsorder recognized Baronial title in Prussia or Freiherrenstand to all his children,and Marie-Christine descended from one of those children,Baron Ernst(1830-1867)...

 

[branchg]

Marie-Christine is descended from Hungarian and Austrian nobles, but she was not of a mediatized house nor was she of the blood royal.

Being a Baroness is hardly an elevated rank in the Germanic sense. Many civil servants and ladies-in-waiting were given the honorifc under both the German and Austrian-Hungarian imperial courts.

She is a commoner like most, but manages to elevate herself in her own mind.

 

[tihkon2]

She is a commoner like most, but manages to elevate herself in her own mind.

Even if that were true at one time, (and I don't agree with you) she is not now a commoner. For over 25 years she has been Her Royal Highness The Princess Michael of Kent.

 

[NGalitzine]

Correct, except for the "The" which she and her husband do not have in their title.

 

[Marc23]

Marie-Christine is descended from Hungarian and Austrian nobles, but she was not of a mediatized house nor was she of the blood royal.

Being a Baroness is hardly an elevated rank in the Germanic sense. Many civil servants and ladies-in-waiting were given the honorifc under both the German and Austrian-Hungarian imperial courts.

She is a commoner like most, but manages to elevate herself in her own mind.

If you find in ANY of her interviews where she said that she was born equal with royals,quote it and post it...

She never said anything that elevated herself to a rank she didn't already have...If she spoke about her ancestors,that doesn't mean that she said that she is born equal with royals...She just said that she descended from them and that she has most royal blood since Prince Philipp entered THE family...which is a fact and true!

She never said that she is equal with royals by birth,and she can't be,as the rules are clear,but she NEVER SAID THAT...btw,her grandmother is a Princess from a mediatized family and through her she descended from many royal families...

The only Barons who were mediatized and could be considered equal were Barons von Boyneburg-Boemelberg...

 

[Marc23]

It works that Princess Michael is a descendant from Diane de Poitiers and her husband Louis de Brezé (Grado di parentela) and from Henri II and Catherine (Albero)

Apart from that fact it is also interesting that Diane de Poitiers and Catherine de Medici were second cousins as Diane's grandmother Jeanne de la Tour and Catherine's grandfather Jean I de la Tour were brother and sister...

 

[Kataryn]

The only Barons who were mediatized and could be considered equal were Barons von Boyneburg-Boemelberg...

Didn't the last Boyneburg-Boemelberg die in 1831?

 

[Marc23]

Didn't the last Boyneburg-Boemelberg die in 1831?

Yes,that's why I said were(at the time of mediatization) and not are(as of now)

 

[Marc23]

Now for some of her in-laws ... well, that's another (*yawn*) story!

Well,for some of her "in-laws" she is like a drop in the ocean-if we remember all gaffs made by the members of the royal family...

But she is attractive,tall,blond,Catholic and German aristocrat(with some Nazi background) which is enough to make her gaffs look much more serious when presented by the British press!

But the reality is a bit different...

 

[NoorMeansLight]

She's an Austrian-Hungarian aristocrat, not German.

 

[auntie]

She's an Austrian-Hungarian aristocrat, not German.

Hitler was also Austrian, so I don't see the difference, many Austrians were part of the Nazi party

 

[sophie25]

She has no Nazi background herself considering she was a baby in 1945!

 

[Marc23]

That's why I said just background...because her father was an honorary member!

Reibnitz family was a German family whose origins are from Prussian Silesia,they were also Prussian subjects who held many important positions in Prussia for centuries... Her mother was Austro-Hungarian aristocrat,descending from Hungarian father and Austrian mother...

There are many posts and explanations about this in section/thread about her family and ancestry...

 

[NoorMeansLight]

Reibnitz family was a German family whose origins are from Prussian Silesia,they were also Prussian subjects who held many important positions in Prussia for centuries...

Her mother was Austro-Hungarian aristocrat,descending from Hungarian father and Austrian mother...

Correct. And as Princess Michael grew up with her mother, I suppose it would be safe to assume that she considers herself Austrian, not German.

The term 'nazi background' in regard to Princess Michael is rather unfortunate, as it is inaccurate and frankly, unfair. It's okay to say that her father had a nazi background. He did. It's well-known, well-documented etc. But the Princess herself? Not at all.

Auntie, your entire post is also unfortunate and quite dangerous, if you ask me. In fact, German & Austrian are two different ethnicities.

 

[Marc23]

The term 'nazi background' in regard to Princess Michael is rather unfortunate, as it is inaccurate and frankly, unfair. It's okay to say that her father had a nazi background. He did. It's well-known, well-documented etc. But the Princess herself? Not at all.

That's why I said the word "background".Because it is not that she herself was involved,but that she has that kind of background(similar meaning to surrounding that predeceased her)...

And for British people her background is considered like that,although she,herself,doesn't have anything to do with it in particular...

I have a feeling that he is often deliberately misunderstood just in order to make her "guilty" in the press,like that time when she defended Prince Harry for picking up Nazi dress for masquerade,because,it was just a masquerade,after all,where people have fun...

 

[Marc23]

Correct. And as Princess Michael grew up with her mother, I suppose it would be safe to assume that she considers herself Austrian, not German.

I also believe she once said in some interview that she indeed feels Austrian,but that doesn't change the fact that her father's family was in fact German...

Just like Catherine the Great felt herself Russian,although she was German from top to toe,as were many other rulers who reigned in other countries!