The Diamond Jubilee Luncheon and Dinner for the World's Monarchs: May 18, 2012

[Artemisia]

I think that it was Margareta that she curtseyed to. This has set me off again.

I found the picture of Kate curtseying; the lady was not Crown Princess Margareta of Romania, but Queen Margarita of Bulgaria (also a "former" royal); both wore red.

How distasteful and inappropriate for the Swaziland king's wife to choose loud and garish designs to represent her country where most of its citizens are starving.

The Queen's dress was horrible, tacky and distasteful all right. On the other hand, how many of us knew about the existence of the third wife of King Mswati III until the luncheon? And now we are all talking about her. Mission accomplished from her point of view, I guess.

 

[Baroness of Books]

Falls under the category of "What was she thinking?" But maybe Artemisia is correct; the Queen of Swaziland might have had a strategy for her 15 minutes of fame for her Big Bird look, and she got it!

 

[Breffney]

I found the picture of Kate curtseying; the lady was not Crown Princess Margareta of Romania, but Queen Margarita of Bulgaria (also a "former" royal); both wore red.

Thanks for that, Artemisia. !

 

[Danishla]

The York princesses are royal by birth. Anne's children aren't royal - her words not mine. Anne said many years ago 'my children aren't royal, they just have The Queen for their grandmother'.

The York princesses will probably turn out at events like this for the rest of their lives, in the way that the Kents and Gloucesters do. The difference is that the York princesses won't be having a load of royal duties to do as well.

Please clarify for me this quote from Royal Princess Anne: "my children aren't royal,they just have the Queen for their grandmother". How does this quote exclude her children from being royal?

 

[Baroness of Books]

I found the picture of Kate curtseying; the lady was not Crown Princess Margareta of Romania, but Queen Margarita of Bulgaria (also a "former" royal); both wore red.

Artemisia, can you please direct me to that photo of Kate's curtsey?

 

[NGalitzine]

Danishla,
Her children are commoners. They are not HRH Prince or Princess of the United Kingdom. They play no role in the official life of the nation and are free to pursue their own lives and interests.
They have a grandmother who is Queen and a mother who is a princess and get to attend big family occassions, but they themselves are not official royals.
Margaret used to say the same thing about her children "They are not royal, they just have an aunt who happens to be the Queen".

 

[Baroness of Books]

And both Anne and Mark Phillips refused a title at the time of their marriage so that their children would have private lives and not have to perform in the public life of a royal.

 

[Breffney]

Danishla,
Her children are commoners. They are not HRH Prince or Princess of the United Kingdom. They play no role in the official life of the nation and are free to pursue their own lives and interests.
They have a grandmother who is Queen and a mother who is a princess and get to attend big family occassions, but they themselves are not official royals.
Margaret used to say the same thing about her children "They are not royal, they just have an aunt who happens to be the Queen".

Also, isn't it correct that Anne's children wouldn't have been styled His / Her Royal Highness as in the UK, the title of Royal Highness is governed by letters patent issued by George V in 1917.

These deem that the title of Prince/Princess, with the qualification of Royal Highness, was restricted to the children of the sovereign, the children of the sons of any such sovereign, and the eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales (the title held by the heir apparent to the throne).

 

[Artemisia]

Thanks for that, Artemisia. !

I owe you an apology; looks like Kate talked to both Queen Margarita and Crown Princess Margareta, and curtsied to each.

Artemisia, can you please direct me to that photo of Kate's curtsey?

I am trying to find the picture again (didn't think to save it), but meanwhile if you check out the YouTube video below at 1:15, you'll see her curtseying to Crown Princess Margareta.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUm5CYyrGjQ

 

[Breffney]

I owe you an apology; looks like Kate talked to both Queen Margarita and Crown Princess Margareta, and curtsied to each.

Bless you, not at all. I hadn't seen the curtsey myself and was only going on reports.

 

[Baroness of Books]

I am trying to find the picture again (didn't think to save it), but meanwhile if you check out the YouTube video below at 1:15, you'll see her curtseying to Crown Princess Margareta.

This is fine, please don't go to the trouble to find the photo. I like seeing her do a video dip rather than a still image of it. Thank you very much!

 

[maria-olivia]

Thanks Prince Radu to provide great pictures of HM King Michel and your wife HRH the Crown Princess.

 

[auntie]

Sorry to delve into this conversation yet again, I still don't understand why charlene is expected to curtesy to a HRH, who is "only" a prince/ess, whilst she is married to a reigning sovereign?

 

[Artemisia]

Sorry to delve into this conversation yet again, I still don't understand why charlene is expected to curtesy to a HRH, who is "only" a prince/ess, whilst she is married to a reigning sovereign?

She is not.
By protocol, Charlene isn't obliged to curtsey to anyone but Sovereign. Thus, she should curtsey to Queen Elizabeth (who has higher ranks a Head of State), but not Prince Philip (who is of equal rank). She actually outranks Prince Charles (a Heir Apparent), and as such most certainly didn't have to curtsey to him; she chose to do so out of respect. Similarly, Crown Princess Mette-Marit chose to curtsey to the Duchess of Cornwall although she didn't have to; they have equal rank.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Sorry to delve into this conversation yet again, I still don't understand why charlene is expected to curtesy to a HRH, who is "only" a prince/ess, whilst she is married to a reigning sovereign?

And again, she didn't have to, she chose to out of respect.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

She is not.
By protocol, Charlene isn't obliged to curtsey to anyone but Sovereign. Thus, she should curtsey to Queen Elizabeth (who has higher ranks a Head of State), but not Prince Philip (who is of equal rank). She actually outranks Prince Charles (a Heir Apparent), and as such most certainly didn't have to curtsey to him; she chose to do so out of respect. Similarly, Crown Princess Mette-Marit chose to curtsey to the Duchess of Cornwall although she didn't have to; they have equal rank.

So, if what you are saying is correct, the Duchess of Cornwall should have curtsied to Charlene and the Duchess of Cambridge too?

Because as the wife of a sovereign Charlene outranks both of them.

 

[Baroness of Books]

That sounds correct to me.

 

[Artemisia]

So, if what you are saying is correct, the Duchess of Cornwall should have curtsied to Charlene and the Duchess of Cambridge too? Because as the wife of a sovereign Charlene outranks both of them.

That's right.
Both the Duchess of Cambridge and the Duchess of Cornwall curtseyed to Charlene, at least according to reports, pictures and videos.
Kate certainly curtseyed to all royal who outranked her, including Crown Princess Margareta of Romania - a royal from now defunct Monarchy. Similarly, Camilla curtseyed to all Heads of State and their spouses (I'm assuming, including Charlene). Charlene curtseyed to Prince Charles out of respect, not because she had to. Most royal women who hold equal rank to Prince Charles usually curtsey to him.

 

[NGalitzine]

I think a lot of royal ladies caught a case of the nods and bobs, probably since it has been so long since there has been such a large and distinguished gathering in the UK and because protocol is much lest strict than in by gone times. Charlene certainly was curtseying to people she did not need to including the Duke of Kent, and to a lesser extend I believe the same could be said of the Duchess of Cornwall and the Duchess of Cambridge.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

So Charlene and Camilla curtsied to one another??!

Or did Charlene only curtsy to the Prince of Wales?

 

[Artemisia]

So Charlene and Camilla curtsied to one another??!
Or did Charlene only curtsy to the Prince of Wales?

Charlene didn't curtsey to Camilla, although Camilla probably did curtsey to her. Charlene only curtseyed to Prince Charles and Prince Philip our of respect, and Queen Elizabeth because she had to. I think a lot of the younger royals (and by that I mean the royals of Charlene and Kate's age) curtseyed to older royals out of respect, even if they didn't have to.

 

[Lumutqueen]

the Duchess of Cornwall should have curtsied to Charlene and the Duchess of Cambridge too?

May not be reading that right but, Camilla does not have to curtsey to Catherine.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

No, I didn't mean that. I meant that both Cambridge and Cornwall should have curtsied to Charlene.

 

[Artemisia]

May not be reading that right but, Camilla does not have to curtsey to Catherine.

I know I'm nitpicking, but there is a situation now when Camilla would have to curtsey to Kate.
If Prince Charles is absent, but Prince William, Kate and Camilla are present, than Kate actually outranks Camilla through her (present) husband's rank, and the latter would have to curtsey to her (although I can't imagine that ever happening). Obviously, if Prince Charles is present, or only the two women are present, than Camilla outranks Kate, and the latter has to curtsey to her.

Sorry, I do love little protocol details like this.
Incidentally, I think this whole discussion should be moved to Protocol thread.

 

[Lumutqueen]

In the situation presented to them at the luncheon, Camilla did not have to curtsey. Which is what I said. I know few protocol details myself.

 

[Artemisia]

In the situation presented to them at the luncheon, Camilla did not have to curtsey. Which is what I said. I know few protocol details myself.

I've noticed that; you are always very knowledgeable.
Protocol rules are quite interesting, aren't they? Especially royal protocol.

 

[NGalitzine]

I remember reading an interview with one of the court officials at the time of Williams wedding. He said they frequently gets requests for a copy of the protocol book and he tells them there is no such thing at Buckingham Palace. To them it is simply a case of following good manners and making adjustments for what seems practical and logical for each event but that nothing is carved in stone.
I think the last time the BRF really followed what might be termed strict protocol was for the Queen Mothers funeral.

 

[Marengo]

Here is video footage from the lunch in 1:19 is part with Queen Beatrix and Queen Elizabeth
RTL XL

The lady behind Queen Beatrix is Mrs. Ietje (Marie) van Karnebeek-van Lede, a lady-in-waiting of the Queen.

 

[soapstar]

So Charlene and Camilla curtsied to one another??!

Or did Charlene only curtsy to the Prince of Wales?

Charlene curtsied to both Charles and Camilla. Here's a video of it.

Home - ITNSource News - it's under Jubilee Banquet at Buckingham Palace.

 

[Artemisia]

That video is really weird.
Not only did Charlene curtsey to Charles and Camilla (when she most definitely didn't have to), but the latter didn't curtsey to either. On the other hand, Camilla did curtsey to not only all other Heads of State and their spouses (which was appropriate), but also Crown Princess Margareta of Romania (which could be call appropriative because despite both being Crown Princesses, woman to woman Margareta does outrank Camilla), but also Crown Princess of Thailand - her equal.

On another note, Camilla's gown looks beautiful in the video; pictures really didn't do it a justice.