The Coronation of King Charles III and Queen Camilla, 6 May 2023

[sophie25]

How would it have been old fashioned?

Sorry, the whole coronation is old fashioned, because it dates back to the 9th century and that is the point of it.... to look old fashioned. Or the Garter robes... Why wear them if they meant to create a certain tone. The order of the Garter is the most 'elitest club' in the world - how is that modern or inclusive?
My point is, if you want modern, then have a pop concert have a street party(as they did) but leave the coronation as it was... tiaras, coronet's, robes, etc, etc.[/QUOTE]

I agree and Kate's headpiece was so tiara like anyway that she would have been as well just wearing one.

 

[An Ard Ri]

It was so obvious that they need to swap places. It would be far more comfortable for Letizia (with her hat) to talk with Felipe. And both Letizia and the Thai king were not happy to seat nearby. It would solve this problem also.

There was also very little interaction between the Spanish King and Queen with their Dutch and Belgian counterparts,but perhaps they had caught up earlier.

 

[Spheno]

There was also very little interaction between the Spanish King and Queen with their Dutch and Belgian counterparts,but perhaps they had caught up earlier.

As I understand they all arrived together. They had time to greet each other.

 

[Spheno]

The cards on the seat clearly indicated for each country where the main representative was to be seated and which seat was reserved for the '+1'. So, it would have been weird to make an exception because Letizia chose to wear a hat that closed her view of to one side.

Nobody would care about such small change.

 

[Skippy]

Where are the official photos? I suppose they will be released tomorrow when all the coronation festivities are over?

 

[LaBettie]

At the coronation, Sir Simon Bowes-Lyon and his wife sat behind the BRF, between Penny Knatchbull and the Middletons.
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/...princess-beatrice-peter-news-photo/1252743660

Would have been lovely if Lady Pamela went too, considering Penny and Anne Glenconner went, and wheelchair users like the Duke of Airlie (he got to take an aide who was not his wife, like at the funeral). Or could invite India Hicks to the concert, she was in town doing TV.

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/...wave-from-the-royal-box-news-photo/1252994151
There were a few Bowes-Lyon relatives at the back of the royal box.
Lady Elizabeth Leeming (QEII Lady-in-waiting) and her daughter
Rosie Stancer and her husband
Captain David Bowes-Lyon and his wife (invited to Ascot)
Also Lady Alexandra Etherington and her daughter, Philip’s German relatives, Pavlos and Marie-Chantal

Not trying to hijack this thread with concert stuff, I already posted there. Just saying since they couldn’t invite that many people to the coronation, they could invite them to the concert. But then even the royal box has its capacity, Camilla’s family and the Middletons were in the area below the royal box.

All these branches off of the royal family are getting extensive. Can only imagine future royal events.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Sorry, the whole coronation is old fashioned, because it dates back to the 9th century and that is the point of it.... to look old fashioned. Or the Garter robes... Why wear them if they meant to create a certain tone. The order of the Garter is the most 'elitest club' in the world - how is that modern or inclusive?
My point is, if you want modern, then have a pop concert have a street party(as they did) but leave the coronation as it was... tiaras, coronet's, robes, etc, etc.

The Dutch (actually quite republican-leaning) serious newspaper NRC Handelsblad had this comment:

"The UK, and probably the rest of the world, is expected to be glued to TV on Saturday, May 6th, to marvel at the Coronation of King Charles III. Republicans are already complaining that such a charade is no longer of this time. This, of course, remains a weak argument, for saying so actually implies that they are wrong, because it is an affirmation of the opposite.

If something is really "out of date", it does not need to be mentioned. For example, you rarely hear someone claim indignantly that the Roman Empire is really out of date. And Johannes Vermeer is not exactly of this time either, yet the exhibition in the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam is an unparalleled public favorite."

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

There was also very little interaction between the Spanish King and Queen with their Dutch and Belgian counterparts,but perhaps they had caught up earlier.

Letizia, Máxima and María Teresa are native Spanish speakers. I guess they had a great time babbling and indeed must have met before, assembling for transportation to the Abbey.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Letizia, Máxima and María Teresa are native Spanish speakers. I guess they had a great time babbling and indeed must have met before, assembling for transportation to the Abbey.

Sadly I missed the Royals arriving at the Abbey as the BBC did not show them.

 

[caethi]

How would it have been old fashioned?

Sorry, the whole coronation is old fashioned, because it dates back to the 9th century and that is the point of it.... to look old fashioned. Or the Garter robes... Why wear them if they meant to create a certain tone. The order of the Garter is the most 'elitest club' in the world - how is that modern or inclusive?
My point is, if you want modern, then have a pop concert have a street party(as they did) but leave the coronation as it was... tiaras, coronet's, robes, etc, etc.[/QUOTE]


I was speaking to the appearance of changing times, changing sensitivities, changing sensibilities, and not necessarily just inclusivity. It's a balancing act. The crowns have major symbolism attached to them, but tiaras are merely a statement of wealth and fashion. Peers in their robes would have reinforced an outdated class system. Wearing medals and robes associated with honours is different than wearing a tiara that is only associated with wealth. I think they got the balance right.

 

[Mbruno]

Not trying to hijack this thread with concert stuff, I already posted there. Just saying since they couldn’t invite that many people to the coronation, they could invite them to the concert. But then even the royal box has its capacity, Camilla’s family and the Middletons were in the area below the royal box.

All these branches off of the royal family are getting extensive. Can only imagine future royal events.

Neither the Middletons nor Camilla's family are "branches off the royal family".

The Battemberg/Mountbatten and their descendants are a branch off the royal family though as descendants of Queen Victoria.

 

[Spheno]

Sadly I missed the Royals arriving at the Abbey as the BBC did not show them.

 

[Mbruno]

The video confirms what I mentioned to Somebody. The main representatives of the foreign royal houses were all walking into the Abbey on the right and the "+1"s on the left. The Sultan of Brunei and Prince Mateen, and the King of Sweden and Crown Princess Victoria swapped places when entering the Abbey and that is why they were seated in the opposite order of the rows behind them.

A mistake by the protocol staff when forming the line perhaps?

 

[sophie25]

Do we know where the foreign royals went after the service?

 

[An Ard Ri]

Do we know where the foreign royals went after the service?

Heathrow

(I don't think there was reception afterwards for the Foreign Royals)

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Heathrow

(I don't think there was reception afterwards for the Foreign Royals)

I can not imagine it that there was really nothing. Even for a simple wedding or funeral always drinks and food are offered. Looks basal hospitality to me.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Heathrow

(I don't think there was reception afterwards for the Foreign Royals)

The Court Circular has nothing listed after the flypast for anyone.

Whether they were at the family lunch afterwards I have no idea but the King had left the palace within a couple of hours (based on when the flags were changed according to Sky News).

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The video confirms what I mentioned to Somebody. The main representatives of the foreign royal houses were all walking into the Abbey on the right and the "+1"s on the left. The Sultan of Brunei and Prince Mateen, and the King of Sweden and Crown Princess Victoria swapped places when entering the Abbey and that is why they were seated in the opposite order of the rows behind them.

A mistake by the protocol staff when forming the line perhaps?


EDIT: Now that I have seen it, it appears that there was a mistake also in the seating order for the royal couples of the Netherlands and Belgium as the Dutch couple is the more senior of the two, isn't it?

The entrance was correct, in order of juniority: Thailand, Spain, Belgium, the Netherlands

 

[LaBettie]

Neither the Middletons nor Camilla's family are "branches off the royal family".

The Battemberg/Mountbatten and their descendants are a branch off the royal family though as descendants of Queen Victoria.

What I meant was in terms of inviting different groups of people to events. The Queen’s Gloucester/Kent cousins, Philip’s Mountbatten/Greek/German relatives, QEQM’s Bowles-Lyon relatives are all invited to various degrees. The royal family section use to be quite small but with marriages and births, it is almost bursting. And looking back at photo of royal events, there were often a few Bowes-Lyon relatives, along with Philip’s relatives, then there were the Middletons. Camilla’s family might show up to at least one royal event. As we saw with the funeral and coronation, sometimes certain people are prioritized/deprioritized.

 

[Marengo]

The entrance was correct, in order of juniority: Thailand, Spain, Belgium, the Netherlands

Liechtenstein was the odd one. It would be correct if Fürst Hans Adam had been there. But even if they started counting in the year of Alois' regency (2004) he would have to be seated after the Lux. Grand Duke.

The protocol of course leads to some curious results: the president of France seated on the 20th row while the Prince of tiny Monaco is much more to the front. As a head of state you imagine he -and other attending presidents- would be seated before crown princes or non-reigning royalty.
The CPss of Romania -born in exile- in front of the Danish CP and CPss etc.

It is good that the King updated the presedence and now treats royalty from Europe and outside of Europe on equal terms. At QEII's the seating arrangements were very different.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Liechtenstein was the odd one. It would be correct if Fürst Hans Adam had been there. But even if they started counting in the year of Alois' regency (2004) he would have to be seated after the Lux. Grand Duke.

The protocol of course leads to some curious results: the president of France seated on the 20th row while the Prince of tiny Monaco is much more to the front. As a head of state you imagine he -and other attending presidents- would be seated before crown princes or non-reining royalty.
The CPss of Romania -born in exile- in front of the Danish CP and CPss etc.

It is good that the King updated the presedence and now treats royalty from Europe and outside of Europe on equal terms. At QEII's the seating arrangements were very different.

Princess Margareta of Romania has a status aparte: no reigning Royal House but nevertheless with a formal position. On their instagram I could see how they were waved farewell from Bucharest by Government officals, were accompanied by Government officials and welcomed in London by the Romanian Ambassador. In everything a head of state without being so.

I compare it with the period 1588-1814 in which the Orange-Nassaus were no heads of state (apart from William III and Mary) but nevertheless always were treated as such, even marrying French, British, German, Russian royals.

 

[Durham]

The protocol of course leads to some curious results: the president of France seated on the 20th row while the Prince of tiny Monaco is much more to the front. As a head of state you imagine he -and other attending presidents- would be seated before crown princes or non-reining royalty.
The CPss of Romania -born in exile- in front of the Danish CP and CPss etc.

This needs to be looked at. Republican heads of state should be seated with the same prominence as monarchical ones. Maybe one side for monarchies & the other for republics. Or directly facing each other as groups. They can then still be seated according to length of reign/term.

Was the seating at the funeral to do with Christian vs non Christian or the fact that the European monarchies all belong to a cousinhood of varying degrees of kinship?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Liechtenstein was the odd one. It would be correct if Fürst Hans Adam had been there. But even if they started counting in the year of Alois' regency (2004) he would have to be seated after the Lux. Grand Duke.

The protocol of course leads to some curious results: the president of France seated on the 20th row while the Prince of tiny Monaco is much more to the front. As a head of state you imagine he -and other attending presidents- would be seated before crown princes or non-reining royalty.
The CPss of Romania -born in exile- in front of the Danish CP and CPss etc.

It is good that the King updated the presedence and now treats royalty from Europe and outside of Europe on equal terms. At QEII's the seating arrangements were very different.

If I was Prime Minister I would absolutely have intervened. It is beyond understanding that the President of neighbouring France (whom is also Co-Prince of Andorra by the way), representing a country of immense importance to all possible British interests, has to be seated at row 20.

 

[LaBettie]

Do we know where the foreign royals went after the service?

Heathrow

(I don't think there was reception afterwards for the Foreign Royals)

I can not imagine it that there was really nothing. Even for a simple wedding or funeral always drinks and food are offered. Looks basal hospitality to me.

The Court Circular has nothing listed after the flypast for anyone.

Whether they were at the family lunch afterwards I have no idea but the King had left the palace within a couple of hours (based on when the flags were changed according to Sky News).

There was something for the foreign royals!!! On their Instagram @istana_negara the Malaysian royals posted photos with the other foreign royals in an unidentified room. Maybe someone can identify it as Westminster Abbey or elsewhere. Are there photos of the foreign royals leaving at the same time as the other guests?

 

[Durham]

Do you have another photo of the room? I don't have instagram.

 

[An Ard Ri]

I can not imagine it that there was really nothing. Even for a simple wedding or funeral always drinks and food are offered. Looks basal hospitality to me.

My comment was in jest .

There appears to have been a reception possibly in a Hotel judging from the photos below.

 

[LaBettie]

A close-up of how Charles’ chair was higher than Camilla’s chair. Barely noticeable but hey it’s the symbolic technicality that matters.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1655513906230509571

Versus King George VI and Queen Elizabeth in 1937
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-c...-westminster-abbey-london-1937-104968233.html

 

[LaBettie]

Do you have another photo of the room? I don't have instagram.

I can scroll through all the photos in the post on my phone web browser without Instagram? Can you?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

My comment was in jest .

There appears to have been a reception possibly in a Hotel judging from the photos below.

After the Investiture 2013, alike the Coronation 2023 also an event scheduled around Noon, a lunch was offered to the royal guests -including the Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall. I remember this because it was held in the two War Council Chambers on the third floor of the Royal Palace Amsterdam: almost forgotten halls and not used for decades. That made me sure also King Charles and Queen Camilla will have offered a lunch to their royal guests, in the palace or somewhere else.

 

[Durham]

I can scroll through all the photos in the post on my phone web browser without Instagram? Can you?

Not for me no. Never mind, the images may well appear elsewhere another time.