The Coronation of King Charles III and Queen Camilla, 6 May 2023

[Princess B]

Loved the official coronation pictures, but my heart breaks to see Princess Alexandra so frail. I’m guessing this is probably the last we’re seeing if her and her brother, the Duke of Kent. Won’t be surprised if they announce their retirement any time now.

 

[Minister of Court]

Lovely to see the Gloucesters, the Duke of Kent and Princess Alexandra in the picture. I love that Charles recognises their years of selfless and dignified service to Her Late Majesty and the country.

 

[wartenberg7]

I prefer the King and Queen posing with their crowns displayed next to them. These huge crowns are aesthetically discutable. Even the Pope makes no use anymore of his papal tiara and no one questions his papacy.

I would advice to do it à la Sweden: drape the ermine mantle over the throne and have the crown displayed on a pedestal: picture.

.... uhm? No! These things are made to be used and worn. That´s what I don´t like about the continental monarchies: The abandonment of everything that´s the ultimate core of royal symbolism. I´m convinced if the european monarchies would have still kept coronations, using their crowns etc., they would be cherished by more people and would have stayed much more in people´s consciousness instead of only the Windsors!
PS: Seeing this scene with the King of Sweden I always think: Make up your mind - put it on or put it in a museum, just don´t sit on it!
And I don´t think huge crowns are aesthetically discutable in general. It depends who wears it and how they are worn. I always thougt the young Elizabeth II looked lovely as a young Queen wearing the Imp. State Crown. And Queen Mary also looked so regal with her Crown, just as her husband and later her son. I just think Camilla´s hairdo isn´t made for a crown! I remember Elizabeth II statet in 1952 she would have to shorten her hair a bit to fit to a crown. Camilla has kept her usual hairdo - perhaps she should have pinned it back or up a bit..? IMO the crown was put on her head a bit too much on the forehead - I guess it would have looked a bit better to be worn on the top of her head.

 

[Saragli]

It is interesting how many newspapers and people say this looks odd and out-of-date in this day and age and for this particular coronation. With the enthronement of the Thai King and Japanese emperor these remarks were not made. Western newspapers would refered to historic traditions etc. and no belittling or demeaning words were used while in the UK some in the Western press seem to rush and stumble over each other to say how odd they all find it, often accompanied with all sorts of derogatory remarks.

I am always struck by this as well. Ancient traditions are lovely to behold, as long as they are anothers.

 

[Somebody]

Haha, I like the look on Charles' face in the group picture - "This is how it's going to be from now on - like it or not."

I had actually also hoped for a photo with the Pages of Honour included, or possibly that one will still come?

I don't think this is how it's going to be from now on. As others pointed out princess Alexandra of Kent is extremely frail and while visibly less frail, the duke of Kent is also getting older and no longer able to for example join a procession, so like princess B I suspect both of them will announce their retirement soon. The duke always said that he would continue to serve as long as his older cousin was still serving her country as queen, so he can feel free to retire now the next generation has taken over. The duke and duchess of Gloucester might be from the same generation in terms of family relationships but age-wise (and it seems health-wise) they are very comparable to Charles and Camilla, so no reason for them to slow down yet.

The group photo broke my heart, Princess Alexandra is so frail, Prince Edward & Duchess Sophie are literally holding her up. I wish Prince Michael would have joined, but he's probably not up to it.

As others pointed out, prince Michael isn't a working member of the royal family, so, that's why he didn't join in for the picture. In terms of composition and clothing I don't understand why they didn't switch Edward and Sophie. They might have thought that it would be sufficient for Edward to support his mother's cousin and therefore Sophie was placed ahead of him but ended up needing to support her on both sides?!

In addition, why are the men with the Order of the Garter still wearing their orders and robes but isn't Anne wearing hers (or the Thistle-robe as she wore during the ceremony; not too hard to put on again after arriving at the palace I would think) and why did the ladies take of their robes. A picture with all of them in robes and another one with all of them (except for king and queen) without -if they wanted to showcase the white gowns- would have made more sense.

Loved the official coronation pictures, but my heart breaks to see Princess Alexandra so frail. I’m guessing this is probably the last we’re seeing if her and her brother, the Duke of Kent. Won’t be surprised if they announce their retirement any time now.

I fully agree. They've made it up until the coronation, had their (final?) balcony appearance and may now retire imho - and look back upon a job very well done.

 

[Nico]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who had hopes along those lines. I even had a picture of it made in my own mind. William and Catherine in their full robes with George, Charlotte and Louis in their attire as we have seen it.

I think it is a missed chance, although there may be a possibility that those photos were indeed made but not released yet so who knows what the future may see.

I'm convinced many more photos were made and will be released in due course. The actual set is here to emphasize the pillars of the new reign : the King, the Queen, the Royal couple and the actual working royals.

 

[Alison H]

I'd also have liked to see an official photo with the Wales children.

 

[Mbruno]

I don't think this is how it's going to be from now on. As others pointed out princess Alexandra of Kent is extremely frail and while visibly less frail, the duke of Kent is also getting older and no longer able to for example join a procession, so like princess B I suspect both of them will announce their retirement soon. The duke always said that he would continue to serve as long as his older cousin was still serving her country as queen, so he can feel free to retire now the next generation has taken over. The duke and duchess of Gloucester might be from the same generation in terms of family relationships but age-wise (and it seems health-wise) they are very comparable to Charles and Camilla, so no reason for them to slow down yet.



As others pointed out, prince Michael isn't a working member of the royal family, so, that's why he didn't join in for the picture. In terms of composition and clothing I don't understand why they didn't switch Edward and Sophie. They might have thought that it would be sufficient for Edward to support his mother's cousin and therefore Sophie was placed ahead of him but ended up needing to support her on both sides?!

In addition, why are the men with the Order of the Garter still wearing their orders and robes but isn't Anne wearing hers (or the Thistle-robe as she wore during the ceremony; not too hard to put on again after arriving at the palace I would think) and why did the ladies take of their robes. A picture with all of them in robes and another one with all of them (except for king and queen) without -if they wanted to showcase the white gowns- would have made more sense.



I fully agree. They've made it up until the coronation, had their (final?) balcony appearance and may now retire imho - and look back upon a job very well done.

I suppose the ladies took off their robes so that we could finally see their gowns. It makes sense to me.

Since the other ladies were not wearing robes, the Princess Royal took of hers too.


You can also see that, without the mantles, they are wearing the grand crosses of their respective orders hanging from a riband. When they are wearing the mantle and the metallic collar with the order badge hanging from it, I suppose they don't wear sashes underneath, do they?

 

[suztav]

I'd also have liked to see an official photo with the Wales children.

I agree ... I think at least w/the Wales children and parents ... and perhaps another one with Camilla's children and grandchildren.

In fact, I would like a photo with the entire royal family regardless of whether or not they are working royals --

 

[Lee-Z]

Love that QEII's cousins are included in the photo, after a long life in service, also love that P.Anne is right next to her brother

 

[Somebody]

I suppose the ladies took off their robes so that we could finally see their gowns. It makes sense to me.

Since the other ladies were not wearing robes, the Princess Royal took of hers too.

She wasn't wearing hers upon arrival (and I don't think she put it back on for the balcony appearance) as she had been riding a horse in-between.

Nonetheless, it seems weird to have the ladies without their robes that they had been wearing during the ceremony and the men with their robes.

 

[Somebody]

I am only now realizing that princess Alexandra wore the robes of the royal victorian order, while she could have worn the order of the Garter (as seen by the ribbon on the group picture). I guess the robe of the Victorian Order isn't as heavy as the Garter's, which is most likely why she picked a lower order (although Anne did as well but in her case, as others pointed out, it might be to ensure that the Thistle was represented among the members of the BRF as well).

 

[Mbruno]

She wasn't wearing hers upon arrival (and I don't think she put it back on for the balcony appearance) as she had been riding a horse in-between.

Nonetheless, it seems weird to have the ladies without their robes that they had been wearing during the ceremony and the men with their robes.

Did the Princess Royal put on the sash of the Garter for the group photo only, or was she already wearing it on horseback and on the balcony? I don't remember.

 

[Baron Brockdorf]

A bit of a harsh, possibly unpopular opinion here.... As oxymoronic as it sounds, this coronation felt rather common (to me at least, and yes I've re read what I wrote), understanding the mood of a nation is indeed very very important with these sort of events, misreading the room could render an institution fragile if things are too opulent, especially in times of hardship which creates a sentiment of 'them' and 'us' among people.

However, the setting it was held in made the whole ceremony feel all the more out of touch, with a congregation of people in regular clothes and 2 people decked in regalia, rather theatrical than solemn - again to me. Perhaps something best left in the past quite frankly, vs this which in my opinion was void of that certain refinement making it seem all the more out of place.
The official pictures while having some lovely elements, seem to exhibit 2 people playing dress up vs a dignified presence, the crowns while magnificent look like they've been photoshopped on them - they look really weird on their heads to my eyes.
It's not the age of the bodies in them which makes them seem that way to me, rather the overall aura they convey, almost like a snap of an exhibition put up by madame toussauds as opposed to moments during the actual event.

On a positive note kudos to them for their stamina, I imagine it would have been a rather long, tiring and stressful day for those involved, especially the elderly, and everything went according to their plan, and it was very evident that a lot of time and energy were spent planning it.

 

[Mbruno]

A bit of a harsh, possibly unpopular opinion here.... As oxymoronic as it sounds, this coronation felt rather common (to me at least, and yes I've re read what I wrote), understanding the mood of a nation is indeed very very important with these sort of events, misreading the room could render an institution fragile if things are too opulent, especially in times of hardship which creates a sentiment of 'them' and 'us' among people.

However, the setting it was held in made the whole ceremony feel all the more out of touch, with a congregation of people in regular clothes and 2 people decked in regalia, rather theatrical than solemn - again to me. Perhaps something best left in the past quite frankly, vs this which in my opinion was void of that certain refinement making it seem all the more out of place.
The official pictures while having some lovely elements, seem to exhibit 2 people playing dress up vs a dignified presence, the crowns while magnificent look like they've been photoshopped on them - they look really weird on their heads to my eyes.
It's not the age of the bodies in them which makes them seem that way to me, rather the overall aura they convey, almost like a snap of an exhibition put up by madame toussauds as opposed to moments during the actual event.

On a positive note kudos to them for their stamina, I imagine it would have been a rather long, tiring and stressful day for those involved, especially the elderly, and everything went according to their plan, and it was very evident that a lot of time and energy were spent planning it.

Probably an unpopular opinion too, but the crowns would have looked "less photoshopped" on their heads if the people around them in the group photo were wearing grand tiaras and necklaces.

 

[Somebody]

Did the Princess Royal put on the sash of the Garter for the group photo only, or was she already wearing it on horseback and on the balcony? I don't remember.

She was already wearing it while riding on horseback, so I assume it was hidden under her robe until she left the church. See pictures (both with robe and while riding on horseback).

Here it can be seen under her robe. Apparently, she wore the Thistle collar and the Garter sash.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

.... uhm? No! These things are made to be used and worn. That´s what I don´t like about the continental monarchies: The abandonment of everything that´s the ultimate core of royal symbolism. I´m convinced if the european monarchies would have still kept coronations, using their crowns etc., they would be cherished by more people and would have stayed much more in people´s consciousness instead of only the Windsors!

Please move this to whichever is the appropriate thread, but what is the evidence for all the other European monarchies (the British monarchy is entirely European, not only geographically but also culturally, etc.) having abandoned more "core" royal symbolism or being cherished by fewer people (proportionally, I suppose; clearly, the British monarchy reigns over a much larger population, but given you refer to the choices made by the royal families, I assume you are not referring to the raw population figures)?

 

[Mbruno]

She was already wearing it while riding on horseback, so I assume it was hidden under her robe until she left the church. See pictures (both with robe and while riding on horseback).

Here it can be seen under her robe. Apparently, she wore the Thistle collar and the Garter sash.

So maybe the other ladies also had their sashes under their robes at the Abbey. Despite being unusual, it would be more practical if they were planning to have a group photo afterwards at the Palace without the robes.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

.... uhm? No! These things are made to be used and worn. That´s what I don´t like about the continental monarchies: The abandonment of everything that´s the ultimate core of royal symbolism. I´m convinced if the european monarchies would have still kept coronations, using their crowns etc., they would be cherished by more people and would have stayed much more in people´s consciousness instead of only the Windsors!
PS: Seeing this scene with the King of Sweden I always think: Make up your mind - put it on or put it in a museum, just don´t sit on it!
And I don´t think huge crowns are aesthetically discutable in general. It depends who wears it and how they are worn. I always thougt the young Elizabeth II looked lovely as a young Queen wearing the Imp. State Crown. And Queen Mary also looked so regal with her Crown, just as her husband and later her son. I just think Camilla´s hairdo isn´t made for a crown! I remember Elizabeth II statet in 1952 she would have to shorten her hair a bit to fit to a crown. Camilla has kept her usual hairdo - perhaps she should have pinned it back or up a bit..? IMO the crown was put on her head a bit too much on the forehead - I guess it would have looked a bit better to be worn on the top of her head.

I disagree. The late Queen Elizabeth II already did not wear the crown in her latest years. And there were years she even opened Parliament without ermine. It did not remove one ounce from her dignity and majesty.

Seeing the King walking through the Palace of Westminster in his uniform and Queen Camilla in a robe de manteau with a diadem, taking place on thrones over which ermine mantles are draped will make them look every inch royal, dignified but not cartoonish.

For an example, Queen Mary's crown is said to be the most elegant feminine curved crown but look how enormous that object is. It fits Queen Camilla alike a bearskin hat on a grenadier. It is really not for nothing that all monarchies, the Pope included, have ended the actual coronation.

I do not share your assessment that actuly using these royal symbols would make fellow European royals more cherished. After all: the last real coronations did not end well. Think at the Shah of Persia or Jean-Bedel Bokassa. And the most popular of all, Queen Margrethe, is "only" proclaimed.

No: King Charles III has been crowned. Mysteriously enough also Queen Camilla. Soit. That traditional act has been done. From now on I would have the crowns transported in the royal procession and displayed as a token of royal dignity. Note that King Charles and Queen Camilla are already quite old people and then they have to do wear those diamond encrusted helmets?

 

[forcedmeme]

I suppose the ladies took off their robes so that we could finally see their gowns. It makes sense to me.

Since the other ladies were not wearing robes, the Princess Royal took of hers too.


You can also see that, without the mantles, they are wearing the grand crosses of their respective orders hanging from a riband. When they are wearing the mantle and the metallic collar with the order badge hanging from it, I suppose they don't wear sashes underneath, do they?

If you've got the collar on, you don't wear the riband for that order, but can wear another order's ribband. If you look at Anne, she's wearing the Thistle collar and the Garter riband. The reverse is true with William, he's wearing the Garter mantle, collar, and the Thistle riband.

 

[wartenberg7]

Please move this to whichever is the appropriate thread, but what is the evidence for all the other European monarchies (the British monarchy is entirely European, not only geographically but also culturally, etc.) having abandoned more "core" royal symbolism or being cherished by fewer people (proportionally, I suppose; clearly, the British monarchy reigns over a much larger population, but given you refer to the choices made by the royal families, I assume you are not referring to the raw population figures)?

I answered on THIS thread because a fellow poster, which you will have noticed, made a remark about exactly THIS kind of subject! So, of course, I wrote about this here, and not somewhere else!
This is, of course only my opinion and a theory - but what I was saying was, that if other continental monarchies would have kept their royal origins, which are also reflected in typical royal symbols like crowns, robes etc., perhaps they would have remained a bit more in the consciouseness and perception of royal watchers also abroad, which is regularly complaint about, also on this forum, instead of only the british Royal Family being reported about while other royal houses are hardly known to the general public beyond their respective countries.

 

[tommy100]

I was taken aback by how frail Alexandra is, bless her. No wonder her secretary helped her onto the balcony and she choose the lighter robes of the RVO over the Garter (though odd really none of the Royal ladies who are in the Garter choose to wear their robes, even if they all had good reasons for not doing so) I also notice Alexandra isn't wearing her Royal Family orders, she is the last to have the RFO of George VI and it would have been nice indeed to see her rock THREE royal family orders if a new one for Charles had been worn.

The fact the royal ladies are all wearing their QE2 RFO gives me hope Charles hasn't done away with it entirely and a new one may be in the pipe line.

 

[Somebody]

So maybe the other ladies also had their sashes under their robes at the Abbey. Despite being unusual, it would be more practical if they were planning to have a group photo afterwards at the Palace without the robes.

The sash worn as GCVO seems to be worn over the robe; see for example Sophie. There is clearly no sash underneath.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I answered on THIS thread because a fellow poster, which you will have noticed, made a remark about exactly THIS kind of subject! So, of course, I wrote about this here, and not somewhere else!

I am sorry, but I do not see your answer to me in this thread.

 

[wartenberg7]

I disagree. The late Queen Elizabeth II already did not wear the crown in her latest years. And there were years she even opened Parliament without ermine. It did not remove one ounce from her dignity and majesty.

Seeing the King walking through the Palace of Westminster in his uniform and Queen Camilla in a robe de manteau with a diadem, taking place on thrones over which ermine mantles are draped will make them look every inch royal, dignified but not cartoonish.

For an example, Queen Mary's crown is said to be the most elegant feminine curved crown but look how enormous that object is. It fits Queen Camilla alike a bearskin hat on a grenadier. It is really not for nothing that all monarchies, the Pope included, have ended the actual coronation.

I do not share your assessment that actuly using these royal symbols would make fellow European royals more cherished. After all: the last real coronations did not end well. Think at the Shah of Persia or Jean-Bedel Bokassa. And the most popular of all, Queen Margrethe, is "only" proclaimed.

No: King Charles III has been crowned. Mysteriously enough also Queen Camilla. Soit. That traditional act has been done. From now on I would have the crowns transported in the royal procession and displayed as a token of royal dignity. Note that King Charles and Queen Camilla are already quite old people and then they have to do wear those diamond encrusted helmets?

I also disagree. I never said the late Queen always wore a crown (for the state opening of parliament) and when she didn´t, she wouldn´t look "royal". I just stated that there are many examples of Kings and Queens looking marvellous and grand with their royal Regalia and that Elizabeth II, who always wore a train and crown until the VERY LAST leg of her reign, when the burden became too heavy (or because two Queen´s speeches were held within a short period of only months because of political reasons, elections etc.) looked splendid in her years as young Queen with her Crown!
I also didn´t say that other royal houses were not cherished. I said that exactly here on this forum people often complain that these royal families are often not given so much credit and are much less known to many people not living in these countries, as the Windsors were, and state this was unfair. Perhaps they would be more reckognized if their appearance had a more "royal profile" instead of looking like some presidents or Madame Macron, Mrs Biden - or a PMs wife...?!
And, come on, you cannot really compare the Shah Regime or this murderous Bocassa with european monarchs, including the royal House of Windsor! Honest...?! What has this to do that it is a shame that scandinavia abolished coronations and by doing so, axed a bit of their historic (royal) culture?
Queen Camilla having been crowned is not mysterious at all! Mysterious only if she wouldn´t have, because Queens have always been crowned in countries where coronations were held, not only in Britain! Would she not have been crowned, it would have been unprecedented in the UK and (another) break with tradition! And tradition is the spine of Royalty and, along continuity, what it is all about in a monarchy!

 

[Erin9]

Lovely to see the Gloucesters, the Duke of Kent and Princess Alexandra in the picture. I love that Charles recognises their years of selfless and dignified service to Her Late Majesty and the country.

Agreed. I’m glad to see their decades of service recognized in the official portrait too. Very well deserved.

Alexandra just looked delighted. Very sweet.

 

[Erin9]

I'm convinced many more photos were made and will be released in due course. The actual set is here to emphasize the pillars of the new reign : the King, the Queen, the Royal couple and the actual working royals.

I think (hope!) you’re right. Surely, they didn’t take only 4 official photos of the first coronation in 70 years.

What we saw seem to be the most important 4 to release as a starting point.

 

[JGio]

Is the new Robe of Camilla made with faux fur or real ermine?

 

[tihkon2]

I prefer the King and Queen posing with their crowns displayed next to them. These huge crowns are aesthetically discutable.

2gj8228.jpg"]picture[/URL].

Nope. No way. They're the only ones in Europe that wear their crowns now, and thank God, they still do.

 

[EllieCat]

I think (hope!) you’re right. Surely, they didn’t take only 4 official photos of the first coronation in 70 years.

What we saw seem to be the most important 4 to release as a starting point.

I hope so too. Perhaps more might be released for King's Birthday (which is 5 June in NZ).

At the very least the K&Q with ALL the Wales family, and one with the pages and attendants (and equerry).