The British Nobility thread 2: Sep 2022 -

[GondorHasNoPants]

I would say Baron Downpatrick as well, but he seems to be a committed bachelor...

 

[Somebody]

During the session of Parliament which is coming to a close, discussions were held on two private members' bills to allow females to succeed to peerages: one bill proposed to allow female succession but with priority for sons over daughters, another proposed equal rights for women. As usual for governments regardless of political party (even though the current Prime Minister supported female succession when he was a backbench MP), the Government declined to support either bill, though it only commented on the first (son-preference) bill.

The debates can be found here.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2024-02-09/debates/14DA3229-1EAC-41CD-8561-FC0D56C4828B/SuccessionToPeeragesAndBaronetciesBill(HL)

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2024-02-23/debates/6557D10F-EBA3-44A8-BD5F-96496079E992/HereditaryTitles(FemaleSuccession)Bill

It's interesting to read the various arguments. It seems that the main problem that they expect to get support for is that by keeping the rules as they are a portion of the seats in the house of Lords (called 'the other place' in the House of Commons) is designated for men.

Those who want daughters to inherit if no sons are available often have a personal interest at stake - while also stressing the importance of a gradual introduction to female inheritance given the far-reaching consequences of introducing absolute primogeniture immediately. The other bill therefore intends to imply this principle gradually by excluding the heirs that have already been identified. Several members refer to the changes in the line to the throne and advocate for the rest of the peerage to follow suit (although excluding any royal titles from the application of this bill).

Does anyone know more about Lord Lucas? He is against reviving titles that became extinct (part of the proposal for inheritance of women when no men are available) and explained that he would have a claim to the title Duke of Kent otherwise...

The debate on full equal primogeniture was scheduled to continue later this month, however, I assume the upcoming elections might put a stop to that.

 

[classyjackie]

Can someone please help me find out how Ralph Percy, 12th Duke of Northumberland is related to Sarah, Duchess of York, I know they share William Montagu Douglas Scott, 6th Duke of Buccleuch as their common ancestor so does that make them third cousins?

 

[Stefan]

I think it's safe to say since now the Duke of Westminster is now happily married that now the most eligible bachelor would Louis Spencer, Viscount Althorp. A nephew of Princess Diana and a cousin to a future King doesn't sound too bad.

And Earl Percy, the older son of the duke of Nurthubmerland

 

[GondorHasNoPants]

Can someone please help me find out how Ralph Percy, 12th Duke of Northumberland is related to Sarah, Duchess of York, I know they share William Montagu Douglas Scott, 6th Duke of Buccleuch as their common ancestor so does that make them third cousins?

They are third cousins, yes.

William -> Herbert -> Marian -> Ronald -> Sarah
William -> John -> Walter -> Elizabeth -> Ralph

This page will let you trace the descent to Sarah and Ralph through the 6th Duke's two sons, Herbert and John.

 

[classyjackie]

They are third cousins, yes.

William -> Herbert -> Marian -> Ronald -> Sarah
William -> John -> Walter -> Elizabeth -> Ralph

This page will let you trace the descent to Sarah and Ralph through the 6th Duke's two sons, Herbert and John.

So that would make their children, Third cousin's once removed to each other correct?

Thank you.

 

[GondorHasNoPants]

So that would make their children, Third cousin's once removed to each other correct?

Not quite, no - their children are fourth cousins.

The 'removed' part of a cousin description only applies when there is an unequal number of generations from the common ancestor. So, Beatrice and Eugenie are Ralph's third cousins once removed, but his children's fourth cousins.

This article provides a useful description of how the 'removed' thing works with first, second, third and further cousins. It can be confusing until you get the hang of it

 

[Hans-Rickard]

I think it's safe to say since now the Duke of Westminster is now happily married that now the most eligible bachelor would Louis Spencer, Viscount Althorp. A nephew of Princess Diana and a cousin to a future King doesn't sound too bad.

Princess Margaret’s 3 grandsons Arthur and Sam Chatto, and Charles Armstrong-Jones belongs to that list as well.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Princess Margaret’s 3 grandsons Arthur and Sam Chatto, and Charles Armstrong-Jones belongs to that list as well.

But Arthur and Sam Chatto aren’t nobles, or even landed gentry, more like upper middle class.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

But Arthur and Sam Chatto aren’t nobles, or even landed gentry, more like upper middle class.

Untitled yes, but being grandsons of a Princess by blood, great grandchildren of a King, and nr 29 and 30 in line to the throne, they have more blue blood than most aristocrats of today

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Untitled yes, but being grandsons of a Princess by blood, great grandchildren of a King, and nr 29 and 30 in line to the throne, they have more blue blood than most aristocrats of today

Nope. You can say they are well connected, but them being more “blue blooded” is a stretch. Plus this is about the British nobility, which they are not part of.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Nope. You can say they are well connected, but them being more “blue blooded” is a stretch.

"Blue blood" can refer to royal as well as noble blood (which they have as well), and I think royal blood would be considered "bluer" by most.

Plus this is about the British nobility, which they are not part of.

Actually, the original post referred to royal family connections and being the "most eligible bachelor":

I think it's safe to say since now the Duke of Westminster is now happily married that now the most eligible bachelor would Louis Spencer, Viscount Althorp. A nephew of Princess Diana and a cousin to a future King doesn't sound too bad.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

"Blue blood" can refer to royal as well as noble blood (which they have as well), and I think royal blood would be considered "bluer" by most.



Actually, the original post referred to royal family connections and being the "most eligible bachelor":

They are not nobles. The post you highlighted mentions an eligible bachelor who holds a courtesy title and is the son of a peer, which the Chatto boys do not have. The only thing they have is that they are well connected, but being blue blooded more than others is debatable. It’s also about status, and their status is of untitled gentlemen with fairly close connections to the royal family. Blue bloods typically refer to nobles or royals, neither of which the Chatto boys are.

 

[iceflower]

The Marchioness of Bath attended the Ralph Lauren and Selfridges event to celebrate Father & Son Day's 10 year anniversary in aid of The Royal Marden Cancer Charity in London yesterday, June 11:


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[iceflower]

The Marquess and Marchioness of Bath attended a private view of "Vivienne Westwood: The Personal Collection" in London today, June 13:


** Pic ** gettyimages gallery **

 

[iceflower]

The Marchioness of Bath attended the Fashion Trust Arabia London dinner in celebration of the FTA 2023 winners at Claridges Hotel in London yesterday, June 17:


** Pic ** gettyimages gallery **

 

[iceflower]

The Marchioness of Bath was among the guests at the V&A Summer Party 2024 Celebrating "NAOMI: In Fashion" in London this evening, June 19:


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[iceflower]

The Marchioness of Bath attended Vogue World: Paris at Place Vendome in Paris on June 23:


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[iceflower]

The Marchioness of Bath (pictured with Venus Williams) attended The Serpentine Gallery Summer Party 2024 this evening, June 25:


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