The Battenberg - Mountbattens


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Is it not interesting that Alexandra could have been Charles' sister-in-law if her sister Amanda had accepted his marriage proposal?
 
Wouldn't they be 2nd cousins? They are in the same generation so shouldn't be once removed. They have a common great grandparents.


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I was just mentioning fact the bride is Diana's goddaughter. It's been highlited on Twitter and here on this thread.
 
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Skippyboo said:
Wouldn't they be 2nd cousins? They are in the same generation so shouldn't be once removed. They have a common great grandparents.


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No. Common mistake. The children of your first cousins are your first cousins once removed. Philip and Patricia are first cousins (Louis and Alice are sister and brother) so their sons Charles and Norton are 1st cousins once removed. Norton's children, including Alexandra, are Charles' second cousins.

"Second Cousins," "Once Removed", and More Explained in Chart Form

I remember having this discussion/debate in a biology class in university.

CyrilVladisla said:
Is it not interesting that Alexandra could have been Charles' sister-in-law if her sister Amanda had accepted his marriage proposal?
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No!!! Generation mix up there. He would have been Norton's brother in law. Not Alexandra's. Alexandra only had 1 sister Leonie died as a small child, and even if she hadn't, she was born in 1991 (Nicholas was the only child born before Charles married and only by 2 months).

Charles proposed to Alexandra's Aunt. Patricia and her husband John had 7 children.
the 2 in question;
-Norton: father of Alexandra, Nicholas and Leonie
-Lady Amanda: whose grandfather tried to push her together with Charles and who Charles proposed to (Alex's Aunt). Instead she married Charles Ellingworth and has 3 sons.

there are 5 other siblings
-Anthony
-Joanna- married twice including a Baron
-Philip his first wife was daughter of famous photographer Jon Cowan
-Nicholas- who unfortunately died with his grandfather and paternal grandmother in the IRA bombing
-Timothy- Nicholas' twin brother, injured in bombing
 
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I've deleted a few posts, please remember to treat your fellow members with respect.
 
Countessmeout said:
No. Common mistake. The children of your first cousins are your first cousins once removed. Philip and Patricia are first cousins (Louis and Alice are sister and brother) so their sons Charles and Norton are 1st cousins once removed. Norton's children, including Alexandra, are Charles' second cousins.

"Second Cousins," "Once Removed", and More Explained in Chart Form

I remember having this discussion/debate in a biology class in university.
Click to expand...
No.
Charles is Patricia's first cousin once removed.
Norton is Philip's first cousins once removed.
Charles and Norton are second cousins.
Alexandra is Charles' second cousin once removed.
 
Funny, I used that same chart and got second cousins because the common ancestors are the great grandparents - the Marquis and Marchioness of Milford Haven.


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The announcement of his engagement to Princess Elizabeth brought about a change in Prince Philip Mountbatten's life. His valet was the Mountbatten's former butler, John Dean.
 
:previous: what was the change you're referring to?
 
Charles never proposed to Amanda. She was pushed towards Charles, as we know, by "Uncle Dickie". A serious relationship never sparked between Charles and Amanda. This was written in one of Sarah Bradford's books, the one about the Queen, I think. I have to check later. I understand Alexandra specifically requested Charles escort her at her wedding whether it was due to her father's ill health or due to her still being angry at him leaving her mother and his family for another woman, or perhaps a combination of both.
 
Did Lord Louis Mountbatten want to bestow knighthoods in India after he became the Viceroy of India?
 
Not to my knowledge. When Lord Mountbatten became the last Viceroy of India, his main purpose was to facilitate the establishment of an independent India while trying to find a way that would satisfy both the Hindu, Sikh and Muslem populations. We all are aware of how it turned out.
OT: There's an excellent book " Indian Summer, The Secret History Of The End Of An Empire" by Alex Von Tunzelmann which tells of the roles Louis Mountbatten, his wife Edwina and India's first PM Nehru played in independence and Partition. I do have to state that the author described Lord Mountbatten, "as a dashing, but totally inept Viceroy." (the author's words, not mine.)
 
Lord Louis Mountbatten's sons-in-law are John Knatchbull and David Hicks. John became the Earl of Brabourne. David was an interior decorator. Did Lord Louis Mountbatten have objections to David's career as an interior decorator?:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:
 
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Why would he? Hicks was a well known designer and he'd been to public school so he was upperclass anyway, even if his father was a stockbroker! Earl Mountbatten obviously approved, because the couple were married at Romsey Abbey near the family home, Broadlands, and there was a large guest list, including royals.
 
I have never read of any issues between Louis and David. He certainly didn't try and convince her not to marry David as he had others. Pamela and her dad were very close. Both his son in laws, even if one was an aristocrat, were artists. Lord Brabourne was a movie producer. David, though they sold first house due to finances, was a very prominent designer who had aristocratic and royal clients.

I would love to tour Grove on day, rarely open to public. David designed the gardens and interior.
 
Katrianna said:
Charles never proposed to Amanda. She was pushed towards Charles, as we know, by "Uncle Dickie". A serious relationship never sparked between Charles and Amanda. This was written in one of Sarah Bradford's books, the one about the .
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I have had my doubts, but I do believe that in a bio of Charles by Gyles Brandreth, there is a note of a proposal. However I dotnt believe that Charles wanted to marry her very much and she didn't want to marry him.
 
They knew each other for quite a bit of time and had spent considerable time in each other's company to know they weren't suited for each other as far as a marriage goes but that didn't detract them from being lifelong friends.

From what I've read, Charles did propose. Whether it was out of a sense of duty to the memory of Uncle Dickie or that he really felt that he and Amanda could make a go of it, I don't know. The spark just wasn't there. This all happened right before the Cowes Week where Diana happened to have been invited to attend and was there to "cheer" Charles up. At the time, it seemed to be the best medicine.
 
In 1974 did Charles mention anything to Amanda's mother about possibly marrying Amanda? Amanda was then only seventeen.
 
Osipi said:
They knew each other for quite a bit of time and had spent considerable time in each other's company to know they weren't suited for each other as far as a marriage goes but that didn't detract them from being lifelong friends.

From what I've read, Charles did propose. Whether it was out of a sense of duty to the memory of Uncle Dickie .
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I think that there is something in Dimbleby to indicate that he proposed and also Gyles Brandreth. but it is some time since I read Dimbleby.
I've read that Amanda's mother said there was "no spark".. So It seems like it was a rather half hearted proposal, perhaps undertaken in a spirit of being loyal to Dickie's memory.
On the plus side, I think he knew Amanda and got on with her.. but she knew him well enough to know that she didn't want to marry him and I think certainly didn't want a public life...
But he DID I think feel a bit of a spark with Diana.. He found her attractive, she seemed lively and charming and willing to sympathise with him, for Mountbattens' death and his "Lonely" lifestyle.
 
According to a biography of Charles, yes. And she suggested courtship as Amanda was only 16. She was meant to accompany him and Louis to India in 1980 but Louis was killed. After Louis, her brother and maternal grandma were killed she understandably was scared to be in the BRF. Considering her 29 year marriage to Charles Ellingworth, doubt she has looked back.
 
The lifestyle of the Lord Louis Mountbattens was certainly cushioned by Edwina's huge inherited wealth. This also allowed Louis's great ambition to get to the top of the Royal Navy and become a national figure to become reality. A 'Golden Couple' though? Only if you believe constant infidelities and regular separations due to business and pleasure are an essential part of the package.
 
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well for upper class people of the time yes they did spent time apart, due ot work commitments. not that differenet to middle class ambitious people today. I know plenty of people who are always travelling for work, they cant spend much time iwht their partners (or kids). And I tihnk that frankly a few affairs are far less traumatic to children than people getting divorced all the time and inflicting new step parents on their unfiortunate kids.
 
Oh Please... Edwina's fortune paid for all of them. That woman kept Lord Louis, his sister, Princess Alice, his aunt and uncle Prince Francis and Princess Anna, all with allowances.

I find it interesting that women saved these royal backsides from genteel poverty. Princess Marie Bonaparte, Princess Anastasia - the former Nancy Leeds - Edwina Mountbatten, and today Princess Marie Chantal - all with their fortunes paid for these people to live a royal life.
 
Denville said:
well for upper class people of the time yes they did spent time apart, due ot work commitments. not that differenet to middle class ambitious people today. I know plenty of people who are always travelling for work, they cant spend much time iwht their partners (or kids). And I tihnk that frankly a few affairs are far less traumatic to children than people getting divorced all the time and inflicting new step parents on their unfiortunate kids.
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Edwina didn't travel for work purposes. She suffered from wanderlust and travelled, sometimes with female companions, all over known parts of the world and some unknown ones as well. Some of them very wild and woolly places indeed.

She wasn't very interested in her two daughters, who have at times been a bit acid about her, or home life, or her marriage really. She certainly couldn't be called a devoted mother or wife, and I'm quite sure that her daughters would have quite liked to have had their mother (and father too, but at least he was usually away on naval business) at home for their holidays a lot more than they did.
 
Edwina did a lot of work when WWII and she put forth much effort in India while Lord Louis was Viceroy and the Independence question was raging. Edwina and Nehru, were, for a long time, the subject of rumors that they were lovers, but in fact, were close dear friends. Edwina is, for the most part, always the spouse portrayed as the one who was the adulterer, but Lord Louis himself alluded they both hopped from bed to bed with various partners. So he wasn't a true innocent, in fact, he was quite a ladies man.
Edwina's wealth certainly helped the Mountbattens as has been written, she wasn't the first wealthy bride to bail out a money poor Royal/Noble family.
 
Lady Marmalade said:
Oh Please... Edwina's fortune paid for all of them. That woman kept Lord Louis, his sister, Princess Alice, his aunt and uncle Prince Francis and Princess Anna, all with allowances.

I find it interesting that women saved these royal backsides from genteel poverty. Princess Marie Bonaparte, Princess Anastasia - the former Nancy Leeds - Edwina Mountbatten, and today Princess Marie Chantal - all with their fortunes paid for these people to live a royal life.
Click to expand...

what has that got to do with anything? Edwina had a large fortune. iF she wanted to use it to keep herself and her husband in "royal" style what is wrong iwth that? noone was forcing her.

Katrianna said:
Edwina did a lot of work when WWII and she put forth much effort in India while Lord Louis was Viceroy and the Independence question was raging. Edwina and Nehru, were, for a long time, the subject of rumors that they were lovers, but in fact, were close dear friends. Edwina is, for the most part, always the spouse portrayed as the one who was the adulterer, but Lord Louis himself alluded they both hopped from bed to bed with various partners. So he wasn't a true innocent, in fact, he was quite a ladies man.
Edwina's wealth certainly helped the Mountbattens as has been written, she wasn't the first wealthy bride to bail out a money poor Royal/Noble family.
Click to expand...
that was my impression that Edwina did work during WWII and as Vicereine of India. And if she wasn't a home staying mother, she wasn't that different ot other upper class women who were busy with their social lives or with work related travel. And to modern women who - seems to me - can't spend that much time with their kids or partners becauase they are working and travelling a lot.
I think that both of them had other interests, but I imagine that they had a freindly relationship with an interest in work and in India which they shared, and if they saw other people, it was not that differnet to many upper class marriages. They "worked on the same team", even if they had other side interests...
 
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