Succession to the Romanian Throne, Part 1

[Cory]

Very good and insightful post. I am sure that Nicholas being somewhat too close to these ermine fleas, the "monarchists" supporting him and obstructing Margarita and Radu, is a point of anger with the princesses.

As you say: he need to solve his problems and of course affirm his unbreakable loyalty to his grandfather's rules, show respect in public to Margareta and make clear to these "monarchists" that he is loyal to the "Custodian of the Crown".

And why would he not? When he is back in grace and favour, in two or three decades it will be his turn. Of course, assuming that his mother Elena or his aunt Margarita are willing to give him a new chance.

The Succession to the Throne is not a game but something very serious. Inventing titles and changing too often a list that no royalist Parliament ever approved do not help.The first step is to respect the Constitution of 1923 and work for the return of Monarchy.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The Succession to the Throne is not a game but something very serious. Inventing titles and changing too often a list that no royalist Parliament ever approved do not help.The first step is to respect the Constitution of 1923 and work for the return of Monarchy.

You have the talent to bite in your own tail. If you have the opinion that the succession according the Constitution of the Kingdom of Romania must be followed, then why are you advocating Nicholas Medforth-Mills?

 

[Cory]

You have the talent to bite in your own tail. If you have the opinion that the succession according the Constitution of the Kingdom of Romania must be followed, then why are you advocating Nicholas Medforth-Mills?

The fact somebody supports the Constitution of 1923 does not mean is against the King's grandson. At least I am in favour of the monarchists cause. Things are not in black and white.
Only few people understand really the subtle reality of Romanian Royal developments.

 

[LadyRohan]

Only few people understand really the subtle reality of Romanian Royal developments.

Seriously, stop trying to pass yourself and/or other zealot saboteurs off as the only ones with genuine insight and knowledge to understand the nuanced situation surrounding the Romanian royals, when that is so evidently fake news that it’s ridiculous.

 

[Blog Real]

The Romanian government considering referendum to re-establish monarchy

The Romanian parliament has now initiated a process in which they will consider holding a referendum on re-introducing a constitutional monarch as the country’s new form of government. This was reported earlier this week by Romanian Insider.

It is the two leaders of the current Romanian government who have initiated the process. They are Niculae Bădălău, the executive president of the Social Democrat Party and Călin Popescu-Tăriceanu from the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats.

The self-proclaimed Republican, Niculae Bădălăsaidif, according to the Romanian Insider said that the Romanian people need to be asked if they want to live in a republic or a monarchy. Bădălău’s stated his position saying: “The politicians, together with the president and very many other factors should sit down and discuss the monarchy.”

“I think the people should be asked. It is not a bad thing, since countries with monarchy is some of the most peaceful and prosperous nations the world has,” said Bădălău. He added, “It should be discussed, especially since we have seen in the media that there are already many sympathizers.”

This discussion flared up after King Michael of Romania died earlier this month. His daughter was then appointed as Head of the House of Romania. Thousands of royalists poured into the streets to attend the monarch’s funeral, alongside representatives of many European and international royal houses, including the Prince of Wales, former King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofía of Spain, and King Carl XVI Gustaf of Sweden and his wife Queen Silvia.

The Romanian parliament has now initiated a process in which they will consider holding a referendum on re-introducing a constitutional monarch as the country’s new form of government. This was reported earlier this week by Romanian Insider.

It is the two leaders of the current Romanian government who have initiated the process. They are Niculae Bădălău, the executive president of the Social Democrat Party and Călin Popescu-Tăriceanu from the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats.


His Royal Highness Crown Prince Alexander greeted His Majesty King Michael of Romania on an earlier occasion a few years ago. Behind the King is his eldest daughter, Crown Princess Margareta of Romania. Photo: Royal Place Belgrade.

The self-proclaimed Republican, Niculae Bădălăsaidif, according to the Romanian Insider said that the Romanian people need to be asked if they want to live in a republic or a monarchy. Bădălău’s stated his position saying: “The politicians, together with the president and very many other factors should sit down and discuss the monarchy.”

“I think the people should be asked. It is not a bad thing, since countries with monarchy is some of the most peaceful and prosperous nations the world has,” said Bădălău. He added, “It should be discussed, especially since we have seen in the media that there are already many sympathizers.”

This discussion flared up after King Michael of Romania died earlier this month. His daughter was then appointed as Head of the House of Romania. Thousands of royalists poured into the streets to attend the monarch’s funeral, alongside representatives of many European and international royal houses, including the Prince of Wales, former King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofía of Spain, and King Carl XVI Gustaf of Sweden and his wife Queen Silvia.

In a speech to Parliament after her father’s death, Her Majesty Margareta, Custodian of the Crown said: “A new time starts for my Family and for the Royal House of Romania. Inspired by the same sentiments as my father, I will continue his work, for the fulfilment of our mission towards the Romanian people”.

Then-Princess Margareta was born on 26 March 1949 as the eldest child of King Michael and Queen Anne in Lausanne, Switzerland. She has four younger sisters: Princess Elena, Princess Irina, Princess Sophie and Princess Maria. Romania was a constitutional monarchy from 1881 until 1947, when King Michael was forced to abdicate. An authoritarian communist dictatorship replaced the monarchy.

The Romanian government considering referendum to re-establish monarchy – Royal Central

 

[Somebody]

In a functional monarchy both Nicholas and Karina would have been created prince and princess when it had become clear that their aunt Margarita wouldn't have children. Any idea why Mihai didn't do that?

And as the Dutch royal family shows, removal is a real possibility (for issues less serious than committing a crime or fathering a child before getting married to someone else - which creates issues around succession; as Mihai was very well aware of).

 

[French Toast]

The Romanian government considering referendum to re-establish monarchy

The Romanian parliament has now initiated a process in which they will consider holding a referendum on re-introducing a constitutional monarch as the country’s new form of government. This was reported earlier this week by Romanian Insider.

It is the two leaders of the current Romanian government who have initiated the process. They are Niculae Bădălău, the executive president of the Social Democrat Party and Călin Popescu-Tăriceanu from the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats.

The self-proclaimed Republican, Niculae Bădălăsaidif, according to the Romanian Insider said that the Romanian people need to be asked if they want to live in a republic or a monarchy. Bădălău’s stated his position saying: “The politicians, together with the president and very many other factors should sit down and discuss the monarchy.”

“I think the people should be asked. It is not a bad thing, since countries with monarchy is some of the most peaceful and prosperous nations the world has,” said Bădălău. He added, “It should be discussed, especially since we have seen in the media that there are already many sympathizers.”

This discussion flared up after King Michael of Romania died earlier this month. His daughter was then appointed as Head of the House of Romania. Thousands of royalists poured into the streets to attend the monarch’s funeral, alongside representatives of many European and international royal houses, including the Prince of Wales, former King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofía of Spain, and King Carl XVI Gustaf of Sweden and his wife Queen Silvia.

The Romanian parliament has now initiated a process in which they will consider holding a referendum on re-introducing a constitutional monarch as the country’s new form of government. This was reported earlier this week by Romanian Insider.

It is the two leaders of the current Romanian government who have initiated the process. They are Niculae Bădălău, the executive president of the Social Democrat Party and Călin Popescu-Tăriceanu from the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats.


His Royal Highness Crown Prince Alexander greeted His Majesty King Michael of Romania on an earlier occasion a few years ago. Behind the King is his eldest daughter, Crown Princess Margareta of Romania. Photo: Royal Place Belgrade.

The self-proclaimed Republican, Niculae Bădălăsaidif, according to the Romanian Insider said that the Romanian people need to be asked if they want to live in a republic or a monarchy. Bădălău’s stated his position saying: “The politicians, together with the president and very many other factors should sit down and discuss the monarchy.”

“I think the people should be asked. It is not a bad thing, since countries with monarchy is some of the most peaceful and prosperous nations the world has,” said Bădălău. He added, “It should be discussed, especially since we have seen in the media that there are already many sympathizers.”

This discussion flared up after King Michael of Romania died earlier this month. His daughter was then appointed as Head of the House of Romania. Thousands of royalists poured into the streets to attend the monarch’s funeral, alongside representatives of many European and international royal houses, including the Prince of Wales, former King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofía of Spain, and King Carl XVI Gustaf of Sweden and his wife Queen Silvia.

In a speech to Parliament after her father’s death, Her Majesty Margareta, Custodian of the Crown said: “A new time starts for my Family and for the Royal House of Romania. Inspired by the same sentiments as my father, I will continue his work, for the fulfilment of our mission towards the Romanian people”.

Then-Princess Margareta was born on 26 March 1949 as the eldest child of King Michael and Queen Anne in Lausanne, Switzerland. She has four younger sisters: Princess Elena, Princess Irina, Princess Sophie and Princess Maria. Romania was a constitutional monarchy from 1881 until 1947, when King Michael was forced to abdicate. An authoritarian communist dictatorship replaced the monarchy.

The Romanian government considering referendum to re-establish monarchy – Royal Central

That would be very interesting if Romania did bring back a constitutional monarchy. It would be good for the country I think.

 

[andrew]

.

I don't think that monarchy could benefit Romania right now. For examples if our (socialist)government, wants to pass a law that is controversial, the president has the means to send back that law to the government to be modified or block it. A constitutional monarch couldn't do that because he would be accused of being political. How many laws or actions of the government were stopped by Queen Elizabeth in her 65 years of reign?
I think,first of all our politicians and us the people have to change and get more mature and only after that we will be ready to have a monarchy and let the government govern by themselves.
We had a chance in 1990 when it was kind of tabula rasa in Romania from a political point of view but then the Securitate was still very powerful and prevented the traditional Romanian parties to regain power after nearly 50 years and post-communist party of Iliescu took hold of power and didn't let go for 6 years.
Unfortunately we are not ready for a monarchy...

 

[French Toast]

I don't think that monarchy could benefit Romania right now. For examples if our (socialist)government, wants to pass a law that is controversial, the president has the means to send back that law to the government to be modified or block it. A constitutional monarch couldn't do that because he would be accused of being political. How many laws or actions of the government were stopped by Queen Elizabeth in her 65 years of reign?
I think,first of all our politicians and us the people have to change and get more mature and only after that we will be ready to have a monarchy and let the government govern by themselves.
We had a chance in 1990 when it was kind of tabula rasa in Romania from a political point of view but then the Securitate was still very powerful and prevented the traditional Romanian parties to regain power after nearly 50 years and post-communist party of Iliescu took hold of power and didn't let go for 6 years.
Unfortunately we are not ready for a monarchy...

Oh I see. Thank you for your information.

 

[Somebody]

I don't think that monarchy could benefit Romania right now. For examples if our (socialist)government, wants to pass a law that is controversial, the president has the means to send back that law to the government to be modified or block it. A constitutional monarch couldn't do that because he would be accused of being political. How many laws or actions of the government were stopped by Queen Elizabeth in her 65 years of reign?
I think,first of all our politicians and us the people have to change and get more mature and only after that we will be ready to have a monarchy and let the government govern by themselves.
We had a chance in 1990 when it was kind of tabula rasa in Romania from a political point of view but then the Securitate was still very powerful and prevented the traditional Romanian parties to regain power after nearly 50 years and post-communist party of Iliescu took hold of power and didn't let go for 6 years.
Unfortunately we are not ready for a monarchy...

Thanks for sharing your point of view. Could this issue be solved by having two legislative chambers (parliament and senate) or do you already have such a system in Romania?

 

[andrew]

.

We already have that, but usually the members of both chambers are from the same parties,their agenda is the same so if some law passes one chamber it will likely pass the other one,too. The president is the last hope to stop it. The Romanian president has not as much power as the American or the French but his role is not simply ceremonial like the German or Hungarian president's. That's why I think that with the right president(and the current president is the best so far) we can better keep the balance in the state.
A monarch would not have that authority and even if it had it wouldn't be wise for him to mix in the politics.
Maybe if a new generation of politicians arise,who will understand better to put the general interest before their own interest,a restoration could happen and it will really benefit our country.

 

[Al_bina]

I don't think that monarchy could benefit Romania right now. For examples if our (socialist)government, wants to pass a law that is controversial, the president has the means to send back that law to the government to be modified or block it. A constitutional monarch couldn't do that because he would be accused of being political. How many laws or actions of the government were stopped by Queen Elizabeth in her 65 years of reign?
I think,first of all our politicians and us the people have to change and get more mature and only after that we will be ready to have a monarchy and let the government govern by themselves.
We had a chance in 1990 when it was kind of tabula rasa in Romania from a political point of view but then the Securitate was still very powerful and prevented the traditional Romanian parties to regain power after nearly 50 years and post-communist party of Iliescu took hold of power and didn't let go for 6 years.
Unfortunately we are not ready for a monarchy...

Thanks for details!
I read that the head of the Constitutional Court of Romania pointed out impossibility of the restoration because of the current constitution. This means that changes to the current Constitution precede a restoration referendum.

 

[Winnie]

Thank you so much, Andrew, for your post. Being a citizen of Romania I value your views above all others as you certainly are in the know of the street talk and opinions of your friends and family. I look forward to hearing your opinion in the future.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

In a functional monarchy both Nicholas and Karina would have been created prince and princess when it had become clear that their aunt Margarita wouldn't have children. Any idea why Mihai didn't do that?

And as the Dutch royal family shows, removal is a real possibility (for issues less serious than committing a crime or fathering a child before getting married to someone else - which creates issues around succession; as Mihai was very well aware of).

No one has ever been removed from the Dutch line of succession. Irene, Christina, Friso, Maurits, Bernhard jr, Pieter-Christiaan, Floris all ceased to be members of the Royal House and successors because they married without an Act of Consent or because they became too distantly related to the Bearer of the Crown. It is an automatic consequence vested in law, not to be compared with removing someone, which requires a quite heavy procedure.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I don't think that monarchy could benefit Romania right now. For examples if our (socialist)government, wants to pass a law that is controversial, the president has the means to send back that law to the government to be modified or block it. A constitutional monarch couldn't do that because he would be accused of being political. How many laws or actions of the government were stopped by Queen Elizabeth in her 65 years of reign?
I think,first of all our politicians and us the people have to change and get more mature and only after that we will be ready to have a monarchy and let the government govern by themselves.
We had a chance in 1990 when it was kind of tabula rasa in Romania from a political point of view but then the Securitate was still very powerful and prevented the traditional Romanian parties to regain power after nearly 50 years and post-communist party of Iliescu took hold of power and didn't let go for 6 years.
Unfortunately we are not ready for a monarchy...

It is not the duty of a constitutional monarch to stop laws. With their royal assent they guarantee that an Act has been through the correct legislative process and has been approved by the democratically elected Parliament.

When King Baudouin of the Belgians was against a law, the Government declared the King unfit to Reign. For 24 hours the Government executed the royal authority and assented the law, which was approved in Parliament.

When Grand-Duke Henri of Luxembourg was against a law, the Government assembled in an emergency session, drafted new legislation to remove the grand-ducal right to sanction laws. This was voted with an overwhelming majority and since then Grand-Duke Henri no longer sanctions laws...

 

[Cory]

The problem is certainly not the so called impossibility of returning to Monarchy but the confusion about the Succession.

 

[MAfan]

Well, I suppose that you may have the clearest rules of succession in this world, the best line of succession that you may desire and imagine, but still if there isn't enough consent to the monarchy, if there isn't enough support from the political establishment and if those who shoule be in this clear line of succession don't show any interest in it, then a problem - and a big one - really exists about the restoration.

 

[Somebody]

No one has ever been removed from the Dutch line of succession. Irene, Christina, Friso, Maurits, Bernhard jr, Pieter-Christiaan, Floris all ceased to be members of the Royal House and successors because they married without an Act of Consent or because they became too distantly related to the Bearer of the Crown. It is an automatic consequence vested in law, not to be compared with removing someone, which requires a quite heavy procedure.

Part of that is semantics. By withholding approval (and yes, formally it wasn't sought but Friso certainly intended to do so but the prime minister refused) they were effectively removed from the line of succession. And while Irene's, Christina's, Friso's, Pieter-Christiaan's and Floris' removals are permanent, Maurits and Bernhard's situation could theoretically be reversed if their mother would ascend the throne.

Somehow, most monarchies are very hesitant to use the means they have by just approving every marriage. What did the Romanian law say about marriages? Wouldn't that at least require permission of the monarch?

 

[Somebody]

It is not the duty of a constitutional monarch to stop laws. With their royal assent they guarantee that an Act has been through the correct legislative process and has been approved by the democratically elected Parliament.

When King Baudouin of the Belgians was against a law, the Government declared the King unfit to Reign. For 24 hours the Government executed the royal authority and assented the law, which was approved in Parliament.

When Grand-Duke Henri of Luxembourg was against a law, the Government assembled in an emergency session, drafted new legislation to remove the grand-ducal right to sanction laws. This was voted with an overwhelming majority and since then Grand-Duke Henri no longer sanctions laws...

That seems to be exactly the point Andrew is making: currently Romania needs a person who can do exactly that and a constitutional monarch wouldn't be able to.

 

[Cory]

Well, I suppose that you may have the clearest rules of succession in this world, the best line of succession that you may desire and imagine, but still if there isn't enough consent to the monarchy, if there isn't enough support from the political establishment and if those who shoule be in this clear line of succession don't show any interest in it, then a problem - and a big one - really exists about the restoration.

I have to say you are right. I dont see how the situation will improve soon.

 

[Cory]

After the passing away of the late King the situation of the Succession to the dynastic rights is not clearer. The Hohenzollerns from Siegmaringen could remain de iure Heirs but at the moment do not speak about it. The proposal made in 2007 of a new Line has been changed repeatedly and the most popular member of it is de facto not on the List anymore.

 

[LadyRohan]

After the passing away of the late King the situation of the Succession to the dynastic rights is not clearer. The Hohenzollerns from Siegmaringen could remain de iure Heirs but at the moment do not speak about it. The proposal made in 2007 of a new Line has been changed repeatedly and the most popular member of it is de facto not on the List anymore.

Is there anything new here?

 

[maria-olivia]

Please Cory, Take some holidays without wifi ...

 

[Cory]

În a debate we have always different opinions. În the same time we have to make the difference between de iure and de facto.

 

[Marengo]

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