Succession and Membership Issues

[Spheno]

Japanese adult adoption is the practice in Japan of legally and socially accepting a nonconsanguineal adult into an offspring role of a family. The centuries-old practice was developed as a mechanism for families to extend their family name, estate and ancestry without an unwieldy reliance on blood lines. Still common today, adult adoption is a dynamic tool for social and economic mobility.

Japan is characterized by one of the highest adoption rates in the world; over 81,000 legal, domestic adoptions were brokered in Japan in 2011.[4] Though different types of adoption occur in Japan, adoption to secure a familial heir is the most prevalent. Adoptions to secure heirs have steadily escalated from 73% of all Japanese adoptions in the mid 20th century to over 98% of all adoptions in 2004. Although these regular adoptions may include children or adults, the vast majority of the adoptees are childless adult males. Over 90% of the 81,000 people adopted in Japan in 2011 were adult males in their 20s and 30s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_adult_adoption


As you can see adoptions to secure heirs is normal practice in Japan. They use to it.

 

[MARG]

So if they are determined to rob the legitimate Crown Princess of her throne why can the Emperor not adopt her future husband

 

[Spheno]

So if they are determined to rob the legitimate Crown Princess of her throne why can the Emperor not adopt her future husband

She is not a Crown princess and she never was a Crown princess.
Akishino is a Crown prince now.

 

[Mbruno]

She is not a Crown princess and she never was a Crown princess.
Akishino is a Crown prince now.

Correct. Although we may disagree, she is not and never was the “ legitimate Crown Princess “ as that is not the Japanese law.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Perhaps we should try and reverse things.
So I'll try be the Devil's Advocate and become a Japanese ultra conservative nationalists.

Thank you for the imitation of an ultraconservative nationalist, Muhler. I think one of "your" ultranationalist's points, which I've bolded, deserves underscoring:

Let us be honest. Women are by nature not the best suited to be heads of a nation, certainly not an ancient nation with a rich culture and old traditions as ours.
You can't argue with biology. Women give birth, it is their natural instinct to nurture and care for their children. To keep the family together, to ensure a stable home with a good harmony for the family. In that respect the woman is crucial.
There is not demeaning or oppressive in that. I revere and honor my wife! Had it not been for her, I and our family, would live a much less happy life. And for that I love her.

A female empress is as such not, it cannot, be the best solution.
A female head of state cannot focus herself in the same way in her official duties, while thinking about her young children at home. That is the female caring instinct, which cannot and should not be suppressed.
A male emperor can focus much more on his duties, knowing full well, that his children and home is cared for by a devoted wife and mother.

A male emperor has other advantages. A male emperor will not be divisive in the same way than a female. Especially in regards to the many traditionalists in this country. I being one.
A male emperor, will be default, command more respect abroad when visiting foreign countries that have a more patriarchal culture.
A male emperor doesn't suffer from the effects of pregnancies and the aftermath of giving birth, and as such can devote himself 365 days a year to his duties.
There are also certain things a female empress cannot carry out in regards to Shinto.

If it were true that a woman emperor's natural instinct would be to nurture and care, to ensure stability and harmony, she would be well placed to continue leading the monarchy and the nation along the path paved by the postwar Constitution and the Emperor Emeritus. She would be wholly qualified to pray for peace, express remorse over the atrocities inflicted on its neighbors, pay respects to other countries as equals, and visit her citizens to encourage them in times of disaster and share in their future.

But the ultranationalists would find themselves unable to rely on such a monarch to secure their vision, which demands a commanding imperial patriarch honored and obeyed by his subservient wife, children, and subjects, echoing a Japan restored to unapologetic dominance over lesser nations.

That is, of course, merely my own sense of the feelings of many ultranationalist monarchists; I am sure there are ultranationalists and monarchists who would disagree.

Poll: Public supports female ascending throne | NHK WORLD-JAPAN News (published October 21)

81% back idea of Japan having female emperor: Kyodo News poll (published October 28)

ETA: Updated Kyodo article

I wonder why it is the under-30s and over-70s who seem to have more confidence in the stability of the current system.

On whether to allow a child of a female Emperor to ascend to the throne, 71 percent were in favor while 13 percent were against.

But when asked if they know the meaning of that kind of ascension, 42 percent of respondents replied that they do. However, a majority, or 52 percent, said they either don't know or know very little.

[...]

The latest poll has revealed inadequate public literacy about the Imperial system, while discussions are being undertaken about ways to stabilize the Imperial succession.

What is the "meaning of that kind of ascension" which the majority say they don't know?

 

[Somebody]

But the ultranationalists would find themselves unable to rely on such a monarch to secure their vision, which demands a commanding imperial patriarch honored and obeyed by his subservient wife, children, and subjects, echoing a Japan restored to unapologetic dominance over lesser nations.

Interestingly enough, I don't perceive either the former nor the current emperor as 'commanding respect' in a more traditional 'male warrior' type of way. Both men seem rather 'soft' and understanding (nurturing and caring if you'd like).

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Interestingly enough, I don't perceive either the former nor the current emperor as 'commanding respect' in a more traditional 'male warrior' type of way. Both men seem rather 'soft' and understanding (nurturing and caring if you'd like).

I absolutely agree (the former emperor appears to behave authoritatively in his private relations, but without bringing that attitude into the public arena), and I think that is a considerable factor in their personal unpopularity with ultranationalists.

 

[Muhler]

Thank you for the imitation of an ultraconservative nationalist, Muhler. I think one of "your" ultranationalist's points, which I've bolded, deserves underscoring:



If it were true that a woman emperor's natural instinct would be to nurture and care, to ensure stability and harmony, she would be well placed to continue leading the monarchy and the nation along the path paved by the postwar Constitution and the Emperor Emeritus. She would be wholly qualified to pray for peace, express remorse over the atrocities inflicted on its neighbors, pay respects to other countries as equals, and visit her citizens to encourage them in times of disaster and share in their future.

But the ultranationalists would find themselves unable to rely on such a monarch to secure their vision, which demands a commanding imperial patriarch honored and obeyed by his subservient wife, children, and subjects, echoing a Japan restored to unapologetic dominance over lesser nations.

That is, of course, merely my own sense of the feelings of many ultranationalist monarchists; I am sure there are ultranationalists and monarchists who would disagree.

Absolutely!

Transforming myself into an ultra-nationalist I will point out that is exactly these feminine qualities that makes an empress so eminently suited and vital in creating and ensuring harmony, both within the Imperial Household and Japan as a whole - in support of her husband, the emperor.
The mother of the nation. Just as the father of the nation, the emperor. That's the natural order.
Atrocities?!? What atrocities? There were no atrocities and therefore no reason to be apologetic about anything. On the contrary we should honor and revere our brave soldiers who fought and died for their emperor, country and people. They were true role-models.
There were a few regrettable, but highly exaggerated incidents in the chaos of war. That happens in every war. But certainly no systematic atrocities as has been suggested by foreign anti-Japanese elements.
In fact I'd much rather talk about the irrefutable American atrocities committed against Japan and the plight of Japanese prisoners by the Soviets.

No, no, no, there is nothing subservient about being a traditional women, mother and wife. On the contrary, it's merely the most natural family-constellation. Just as it has been since ancient times. And that worked well, right? ?

 

[Prisma]

Some in Japanese government calling for women to head their own imperial family branches | The Japan Times

[...]

The government plans to start talks on the issue as soon as after the Daijosai thanksgiving ritual performed by Emperor Naruhito on Thursday and Friday, the sources said.

[....]

The main focus of the discussion was scheduled to be whether to allow women or heirs in the maternal line of the imperial family to assume the throne, in line with a proposal put forward in 2005 by an expert panel commissioned by the government of Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi.

The possibility of a reigning empress is popular among the public.

According to a Kyodo News poll conducted late last month, 81.9 percent of respondents said they are in favor of having a reigning empress, while 13.5 percent were against the idea. In addition, 70 percent said they would support an emperor or a reigning empress from the female line, meaning that the monarch’s mother would have descended from the imperial family rather than their father, while 21.9 percent said they were against it.

[...]

Still, a decision on the succession issue can wait 30 to 40 years, a senior government official said.

[...]

Thus, some in the government are calling for allowing female members to remain in the family even after marriage.

A government official said permitting female branches should be an option since the measure is different from the idea of allowing women or their descendants to take the throne.

Conservatives, however, also disagree with the female branch proposal.

[...]

A conservative group in the ruling Liberal Democratic Party last month proposed that men from previously severed branches of the imperial family rejoin it in order to ensure stable male succession.

To sustain the imperial family, the group came up with ideas such as letting unmarried men in the former branches marry into or be adopted by the family.

The group suggested creating a law on this as an emergency measure, instead of revising the Imperial Household Law.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Muhler, I think you have a pretty clear understanding of the ultranationalists' convictions. ?

Some in Japanese government calling for women to head their own imperial family branches | The Japan Times

The proposal is seen as serving to defer discussions over whether to allow women or their descendants to ascend to the throne itself to become emperor or empress.

It was a bit unexpected to read that the Abe government planned to begin discussing maternal branches in short order, rather than deferring it for as long as humanly possible, and I wondered about their intentions. That (if true) answers my question.

It's interesting that behind the scenes the government is apparently split over the issue, though I'm sure the Prime Minister won't make any concessions.

Still, a decision on the succession issue can wait 30 to 40 years, a senior government official said.

And strictly speaking the official is likely correct, which explains why the Emperor Emeritus's calls for male-preference female succession have gained little ground after the birth of Prince Hisahito.

 

[Tilia C.]

Ha, if they want to wait 30 or 40 years before making a decision, the only option will be adoption of a male from the former branches. Because by then, all the current Princesses will either have left the Imperial Family or they will be too old to still get married and start a family.

Imo, they need to allow the Princesses to stay working members of the Imperial family now, so that in the future Prince Hisahito will have the support of his sisters and his cousin, without preventing them from getting married and starting a family. Once that is done, they can postpone further decisions till it becomes clear weather Hisahito will have sons or not.

 

[Prisma]

Conservatives submit ex-imperial member restoration proposal to Abe - Kyodo News

A conservative group within Japan's ruling party on Tuesday submitted to Prime Minister Shinzo Abe a proposal to allow men from now-abolished collateral branches of the imperial family to rejoin it, as part of measures to ensure stable succession.

[...] the Liberal Democratic Party group called for enabling unmarried male members of the former branches to join the imperial family through adoption or marriage, if they want to.

The group led by House of Councillors member Shigeharu Aoyama sought the creation of a special law to bring back members of the 11 collateral branches that left the imperial family in 1947. [...]

But the idea has not widely been supported by the public, with a majority of respondents being in favor of allowing women to succeed to the throne in opinion polls. The imperial family and the former collateral branches share a common ancestor some 600 years ago.

[...]

The group also presented a negative view on allowing women to retain status as imperial family members after marriage, arguing it could lead to a first-ever "emperor of female lineage," whose father's side of the family is not of imperial ancestry.

[...]

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Conservatives submit ex-imperial member restoration proposal to Abe - Kyodo News

Abe said more work is needed in spreading awareness among people about the difference between a female emperor and an emperor of matrilineage, whose father's side of the family is not of imperial ancestry.

Traditionalists keep saying this, but what exactly do they believe the majority of people are unaware of? Why do they see people with a differing opinion as ignorant or uneducated?

 

[Ista]

Traditionalists keep saying this, but what exactly do they believe the majority of people are unaware of? Why do they see people with a differing opinion as ignorant or uneducated?

Because to them it is perfectly obvious that women are inferior and subordinate, and anyone who disagrees with that viewpoint must therefore be in need of being instructed. What is so striking about this attitude is how much at odds it is with the results of polling of the general public in Japan.

 

[Muhler]

Traditionalists keep saying this, but what exactly do they believe the majority of people are unaware of? Why do they see people with a differing opinion as ignorant or uneducated?

Because they know they are right.

It's not a question as to whether they feel or believe they are right. They know!

And the masses are not stupid, but merely misinformed, misguided and too often indifferent. The people are in need of a firm, but patriotic and selfless hand - i.e. the traditionalists.
Who, from a moral highground and from a deep, unself-serving love for Japan and the Japanese people and not least the ancient Japanese culture, can lead the people on a patriotic path towards a brighter future for Japan. To restore the traditional values in Japan, just as they were in the old days, were there was order, and a clear system going through the society. Where everyone know their place - and that, let us be honest, is the stage where most are most happy.

 

[Prisma]

LDP heavyweight floats approving emperor from female lineage: The Asahi Shimbun

Emperors should be allowed to come from the imperial family's female line, a Liberal Democratic Party heavyweight suggested, who is a close ally of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe.

Breaking from the Abe administration, which insists only a male descendant from the family's male line can ascend to the Chrysanthemum Throne, Akira Amari proposed allowing a matrilineal emperor.

To ensure a stable imperial succession, Amari said on Nov. 24, “We should set the line of succession primarily among descendants in the male line.”

But he added, “Still, we should ultimately approve of the female line as an option.”

[...]

Amari said those in the male line should still get priority to succeed the emperor, but stressed the importance of being prepared to cope with any situation.

[...]

 

[Prisma]

Some LDP Execs Sound Ready to Accept Emperors from Maternal Line | Nippon.com

Liberal Democratic Party Secretary-General Toshihiro Nikai suggested Tuesday that he would not necessarily oppose children of Imperial Family women ascending the throne.

A similar view was expressed by the Japanese ruling party's tax panel chief, Akira Amari, close to Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, on television Sunday.

The remarks by the two party executives are expected to have repercussions within the LDP, whose conservative members stick to the current system allowing only male descendants in the Imperial Family's paternal line to succeed to the throne.

[...]

Let will of the people decide succession issue | The Japan Times

[...] The number one reason that discussions on the matter do not move forward is that questions related to the Constitution and historical matters have not been separated. The Constitution says in Article 9 that the emperor “shall be the symbol of the state and of the unity of the people, deriving his position from the will of the people with whom resides sovereign power.” In short, the emperor’s position is determined by the will of the people, irrespective of the historical background of the imperial system.

[...] Based on the will of the people, the government effectively revised the Imperial House Law — by enacting special one-off legislation — to pave the way for Emperor Akihito to retire. In this way, the latest imperial succession was carried out without a hitch in accordance with the provisions of the Constitution.

The same logic applies to the question of imperial succession rules. Recent opinion surveys indicate that people are generally supportive of the creation of female-led imperial houses as well as allowing a reigning empress and succession on the maternal lineage.

[...]

These issues surrounding the imperial family under the Constitution on one hand, and the historical issue of exploring the roles played by the emperor system in Japanese history on the other, are subjects of entirely different dimensions.

If we follow the majority views of scholars, the origin of emperors (who can be traced with certainty) dates back to Emperor Keitai, who is believed to have ascended the throne in 507. It was when Empress Jito took the throne in 686 that the country started using the title “tenno” (emperor). She is considered to have become the model of Amaterasu Omikami, the mythical deity believed to be the direct ancestor to Japan’s emperors.

What this means is that the imperial family traces its origin to Amaterasu, a woman. [...]

Indeed, Japan has had eight reigning empresses (two of whom ascended the throne twice) — up until the late 18th century, during the Edo Period. Some of the emperors in our history are believed to have come from the maternal lineage of the imperial family — although the views of scholars are divided on the matter. The question of whether they had indeed been on the paternal or maternal lineage should be subject to purely academic study by scholars. That is an issue independent from the imperial system as defined under the postwar Constitution. We must not forget that.

Of course, each individual is free to take the historical background into account. Irrespective of whether the emperors in Japan’s history were 100 percent on the paternal lines of the family — or whether there were indeed emperors on the maternal lineage — it is only the will of the people that can determine the position of the emperor. This is the core of issue over imperial succession rules.

 

[Prisma]

Japan postpones debate on imperial succession as divide surfaces - Kyodo News

[...] Sources close to the matter recently said that as Crown Prince Fumihito is scheduled to announce himself to be first in line to the throne in a ceremony on April 19, the government plans to start the debate after the event to avoid a worsening divide within the ruling Liberal Democratic Party.

[...]

Some opposition parties have proposed tolerating succession by women or by members in the maternal line, while a group within the LDP adamant about sticking to the patrilineal succession has urged Prime Minister Shinzo Abe not to break the centuries-old tradition.

But Akira Amari, a senior LDP lawmaker, said during a TV program aired Nov. 24 that succession by members in the matrilineage "should be tolerated as a last option" after placing members in the patrilineage before them in the order of succession.

[...]

Amari's remarks were followed by LDP Secretary General Toshihiro Nikai's that was also widely seen as supporting a new style of succession as he has previously mentioned tolerating female emperors.

"As we bear in mind the equality of men and women and the democratic society, the conclusion is obvious," Nikai said at a press conference on Nov. 26.

The government initially planned to set up a panel to debate the future of the imperial succession after Emperor Naruhito completed Daijosai last month [...]

 

[Muhler]

Ah, trying to cover the cracks on this issue within the government coalition.

 

[Biri]

But I am sure Hisahito will ascend the throne after his uncle.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Ah, trying to cover the cracks on this issue within the government coalition.

Seems overly scrupulous from Mr. Abe's side. Two senior party members being minimally more flexible than he is in their commitment to male-only inheritance, and one of them subsequently backing away from his comments, is not exactly a battle for the soul of the party.

I wonder why he allegedly believes that scheduling the talks after the Crown Prince's investiture will cause them to go more smoothly for him. Is the sight of a man leading the pomp and ceremony expected to make it clear to all LDP members watching it that only men are acceptable in the role?

But I am sure Hisahito will ascend the throne after his uncle.

Do you foresee the Crown Prince resigning his rights? Otherwise, with the Emperor being five years older than his brother, it seems likely that Fumihito will reign before Hisahito.

Let will of the people decide succession issue | The Japan Times


[...] The number one reason that discussions on the matter do not move forward is that questions related to the Constitution and historical matters have not been separated. The Constitution says in Article 9 that the emperor “shall be the symbol of the state and of the unity of the people, deriving his position from the will of the people with whom resides sovereign power.” In short, the emperor’s position is determined by the will of the people, irrespective of the historical background of the imperial system.

[...] Based on the will of the people, the government effectively revised the Imperial House Law — by enacting special one-off legislation — to pave the way for Emperor Akihito to retire. In this way, the latest imperial succession was carried out without a hitch in accordance with the provisions of the Constitution.

The same logic applies to the question of imperial succession rules. Recent opinion surveys indicate that people are generally supportive of the creation of female-led imperial houses as well as allowing a reigning empress and succession on the maternal lineage.

[...]

These issues surrounding the imperial family under the Constitution on one hand, and the historical issue of exploring the roles played by the emperor system in Japanese history on the other, are subjects of entirely different dimensions.

If we follow the majority views of scholars, the origin of emperors (who can be traced with certainty) dates back to Emperor Keitai, who is believed to have ascended the throne in 507. It was when Empress Jito took the throne in 686 that the country started using the title “tenno” (emperor). She is considered to have become the model of Amaterasu Omikami, the mythical deity believed to be the direct ancestor to Japan’s emperors.

What this means is that the imperial family traces its origin to Amaterasu, a woman. [...]

Indeed, Japan has had eight reigning empresses (two of whom ascended the throne twice) — up until the late 18th century, during the Edo Period. Some of the emperors in our history are believed to have come from the maternal lineage of the imperial family — although the views of scholars are divided on the matter. The question of whether they had indeed been on the paternal or maternal lineage should be subject to purely academic study by scholars. That is an issue independent from the imperial system as defined under the postwar Constitution. We must not forget that.

Of course, each individual is free to take the historical background into account. Irrespective of whether the emperors in Japan’s history were 100 percent on the paternal lines of the family — or whether there were indeed emperors on the maternal lineage — it is only the will of the people that can determine the position of the emperor. This is the core of issue over imperial succession rules.

Thank you for sharing this very insightful editorial. It raises an excellent question which I have rarely seen debated: Who should choose the rules of the monarchy? The majority of the voting public (many of whom are apathetic to imperial issues), or the small and select group of people (consisting mainly of nationalists) who have strong interests in imperial issues? The same question could be asked in other constitutional monarchies which exist within a democratic system.

 

[Muhler]

Seems overly scrupulous from Mr. Abe's side. Two senior party members being minimally more flexible than he is in their commitment to male-only inheritance, and one of them subsequently backing away from his comments, is not exactly a battle for the soul of the party.

I wonder why he allegedly believes that scheduling the talks after the Crown Prince's investiture will cause them to go more smoothly for him. Is the sight of a man leading the pomp and ceremony expected to make it clear to all LDP members watching it that only men are acceptable in the role?

Thank you for sharing this very insightful editorial. It raises an excellent question which I have rarely seen debated: Who should choose the rules of the monarchy? The majority of the voting public (many of whom are apathetic to imperial issues), or the small and select group of people (consisting mainly of nationalists) who have strong interests in imperial issues? The same question could be asked in other constitutional monarchies which exist within a democratic system.

(Shortened by me.)

Who knows what logic applies in the head of PM Abe. Not only in this issue...

The public. No doubt about that. The monarchies exist because of the public, for the public.
The nationalists would much prefer an Imperial Family that is seen but not heard. A living symbol that can be interpreted and utilized the way the nationalists see fit.
- And we all know how well that went, the last time that policy was carried out...

 

[Prisma]

Japan starts study on imperial succession amid ruling-party division over allowing women to take the throne | The Japan Times

The government has started an informal study on ways to ensure stable imperial succession amid a dearth of male heirs by conducting hearings with experts behind the scenes, according to government sources.

[...]

The officials are believed to be asking the experts about their views mainly on whether to allow women or heirs in the maternal line of the imperial family to assume the throne, in line with a proposal put forward by an expert panel commissioned by the government of former Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi.

The hearings apparently also cover the idea of restoring imperial family status to those who left the family soon after the end of World War II and whether female members of the imperial family should be allowed to maintain their status as family members after marriage by heading family branches.

[...]

Members of Abe’s ruling Liberal Democratic Party are divided on the issue. Conservative members who support Abe call for maintaining the current rule of allowing only male offspring in the imperial family’s paternal line to assume the throne. They are also encouraging the government to create legislation to allow former imperial family members to be reinstated.

By contrast, LDP Secretary-General Toshihiro Nikai and other party members who keep distance from the conservative members have not ruled out the option of allowing anyone in the family’s maternal line to take the throne, from the viewpoint of equal rights for both sexes.

[...]

Japan Starts Informal Study on Stable Imperial Succession - JIJI PRESS

[...]

The government is expected to begin full-scale debates, including by establishing an expert panel, after the "Rikkoshi-no-Rei" ceremony on April 19 for Crown Prince Akishino, the younger brother of Emperor Naruhito, to proclaim his rise to first in line to the throne.

Currently, Deputy Chief Cabinet Secretary Kazuhiro Sugita is leading the informal work to prepare for stable Imperial succession.

According to the sources, the government has already dispatched personnel to multiple experts, young and old, gather opinions.

[...]

 

[Muhler]

What has happened to these former branches?

And will they even be interested in being restored to royal status?
Not to mention whether the public will accept these "now" commoners? - Especially if there are female alternatives in perfect working order.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

What has happened to these former branches?

Are you inquiring whether any of them have male descendants? Prisma translated some information from Japanese Wikipedia in this post: http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f68/succession-and-membership-issues-4108-56.html#post2206360

And will they even be interested in being restored to royal status?

This article says that certain members of the commoner branches are indeed hoping for the opportunity to become royals. I'm not sure what the source is for that statement, but the article quotes various sources elsewhere.

New Era, New Rules for the Imperial Bloodline? - Tokyo Review

Not to mention whether the public will accept these "now" commoners? - Especially if there are female alternatives in perfect working order.

The public accepted commoners into the imperial family in the cases of Crown Princess Michiko, Crown Princess Masako, etc. I suppose the question is whether they would be equally accepting if the commoner entered the imperial family as a prince of the blood and potential emperor, rather than as a consort.

 

[Muhler]

Thanks.

No, I mean what are they doing for a living now?

In a deeply hierarchical society as the Japanese that's not without relevance.
Nor is it without relevance if they or those they work with or for have been controversial. Especially as the court goes to extraordinary lengths to keep the Imperial Family clean.

- And in that context, increasing the number of royals, means having to manage more people and also keep them occupied and out of mischief.
Having a total number of royals below twenty, as is, is manageable. Provided at least five are in the line of succession.
So the proposal by the conservatives in the Abe administration may open up more problems than they solve.
That is: They will get a male heir (or in this case male spares) but they will also get the families of those spares. All of whom are people, who have not grown up within a court with strict rules - so some of them may very well be more inclined to rebel against what to them is an unused confinement.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Thanks.

No, I mean what are they doing for a living now?

In a deeply hierarchical society as the Japanese that's not without relevance.
Nor is it without relevance if they or those they work with or for have been controversial. Especially as the court goes to extraordinary lengths to keep the Imperial Family clean.

- And in that context, increasing the number of royals, means having to manage more people and also keep them occupied and out of mischief.
Having a total number of royals below twenty, as is, is manageable. Provided at least five are in the line of succession.
So the proposal by the conservatives in the Abe administration may open up more problems than they solve.
That is: They will get a male heir (or in this case male spares) but they will also get the families of those spares. All of whom are people, who have not grown up within a court with strict rules - so some of them may very well be more inclined to rebel against what to them is an unused confinement.

That's an excellent point. We have learned (from the still suspended engagement of Mako and Kei) that the general public, the government, the imperial family, and the imperial household agency can all agree that a debt dispute between the mother and former "stepfather" of the husband of the non-royal daughter of the crown prince would unacceptably tarnish the image of the monarchy.

But how many private citizens (male-line descendants or not) would be able to prove that each of the parents of each of the spouses of each of their siblings have never been implicated in a domestic argument with a former partner (or worse)?

 

[Spheno]

Thanks.

No, I mean what are they doing for a living now?

In a deeply hierarchical society as the Japanese that's not without relevance.
Nor is it without relevance if they or those they work with or for have been controversial. Especially as the court goes to extraordinary lengths to keep the Imperial Family clean.

- And in that context, increasing the number of royals, means having to manage more people and also keep them occupied and out of mischief.
Having a total number of royals below twenty, as is, is manageable. Provided at least five are in the line of succession.
So the proposal by the conservatives in the Abe administration may open up more problems than they solve.
That is: They will get a male heir (or in this case male spares) but they will also get the families of those spares. All of whom are people, who have not grown up within a court with strict rules - so some of them may very well be more inclined to rebel against what to them is an unused confinement.

Funny. Main problem was lack of princes/princesses. You found new one! ?

All Japanese are used to follow rules and protocols. it is integral part of their culture.
Many members of these former branches were invited to enthronement ceremony, and attend other informal events at the palace.

Closest potential heirs from former branches are current Emperor's first cousins and their descendants. They are more close relatives then Mikasa and Takamado princesses (second cousins).
The eldest cousin recently died (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobuhiko_Higashikuni). He had one son and two grandsons.

 

[Spheno]

Next first cousin (younger brother of Nobuhiko Higashikuni) is chairman of Yamashina Institute for Ornithology Mibu Motohiro Chairman | Yamashina Institute for Ornithology. He has two sons.

 

[Muhler]

Funny. Main problem was lack of princes/princesses. You found new one! ?

All Japanese are used to follow rules and protocols. it is integral part of their culture.
Many members of these former branches were invited to enthronement ceremony, and attend other informal events at the palace.

Closest potential heirs from former branches are current Emperor's first cousins and their descendants. They are more close relatives then Mikasa and Takamado princesses (second cousins).
The eldest cousin recently died (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobuhiko_Higashikuni). He had one son and two grandsons.

Oh, it's one thing to attend ceremonies and be invited to the palace. It's another matter to become an integral part of it.