State Visit from the President of the United States: May 24-26, 2011

[Sunfire]

I am most perplexed at Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson attending both of the dinners. Why?

 

[CrownPrincess5]

I was more perplexed by Kevin spacey attending. Wherever Obama is celebrities are there.

 

[Isabella]

I was more perplexed by Kevin spacey attending. Wherever Obama is celebrities are there.

Kevin Spacey is the artistic director of the Old Vic theatre in London and also has an honorary CBE, so somehow I'm not really surprised that he was there (at least not as much as some of the others).

 

[Zonk]

Well it could be that they are Obama supporters and Kevin Spacey is well established stage actor. Is he in London doing a play?

ETA: I see Isabella answered the question than that makes sense.

Really, I am surprised that anyone is surprised. Whenever there is a state dinner at the White House, you will find people who are representatives of that particular country. For example, if the President of Mexico is present, than influential and well known Mexican American's are invited. This includes actors (which I guess fits the celebrity category), people in the arts, government officials, etc. Same thing with the President of China, Canada, etc.

 

[CrownPrincess5]

I am surprised cause there were a lot more important celebs (Obamas supporters) in England at the time...choosing Spacey seems far out to me regardless of his being an artistic director.

 

[ladongas]

Only two state dinners?

I've read this week that this is only the second state dinner honoring an American President. I was quite surprised, since I know I recall seeing pictures of many other Presidents wearing white tie, posing with the Queen and DoE. Apparently, it takes more that white tie a State Dinner (and State Visit) to make. Does anyone know what the differences are? ( If Diarist reads this, perhaps she has some insight.) Thank you.

Or perhaps this is only the second State Visit by a POTUS, and the dinners are something else altogether.

 

[texankitcat]

I, assume, that the band had a leader with a functioning brain. Two seconds is not a lifetime. No, it is not a postscript, but some people speak at their timetable, not some nonsensical pace. An anthem at a dinner. How gauche!!!

This is Buckingham Palace and a formal State Dinner hosted by The Queen. Not the White House correspondents dinner. The bottom line is that President Obama was ill prepared in protocol which is rather inexcusable. He has experts who should be proactive in ensuring that the President is well informed of Royal protocol in all aspects of his visit, and most importantly for this State Dinner. Instead of addressing the ensemble with "Your majesty, your royal highness, Prime Minister and distinguished guests", he launched into his speech without the polite introduction and addressed the Queen directly using "you" instead of Your Majesty. The end of the speech.....I don't know what else to say. Quite awkward.

I am not blaming the President for these breeches in protocol unless he was advised and chose to disregard the advise because he didn't think it was important. I do feel that when our President goes abroad for formal state visits he needs to be on top of his game by making sure he has the best advisers. Heck, even Paul Burrell would have been able to prepare him better than his staff.

 

[Esmerelda]

I've read this week that this is only the second state dinner honoring an American President. I was quite surprised, since I know I recall seeing pictures of many other Presidents wearing white tie, posing with the Queen and DoE. Apparently, it takes more that white tie a State Dinner (and State Visit) to make. Does anyone know what the differences are? ( If Diarist reads this, perhaps she has some insight.) Thank you.

Or perhaps this is only the second State Visit by a POTUS, and the dinners are something else altogether.

Maybe those were state visits by the Queen to the US?

 

[Lisele]

Okay...I think we need to sack the entire Office of Protocol. Seriously...what the %^$# are those folks getting paid for??

SACK ALL OF THEM AND HIRE ME!!

I didn't suggest sacking them in my prior post (#209) but I did say to blame them for his faux pas

 

[EmpressRouge]

Like Zonk said, whenever they have a state dinner, they always invite a few celebs/non-political circle types with ties to both countries (personal or business) to glamorize an otherwise very stiff, protocol-filled event. When the Obamas hosted the a state dinner for the Chinese president at the White House, guests included YoYo Ma, Vera Wang and Jackie Chan.

 

[ladongas]

Good idea, Esmerelda, but...

Maybe those were state visits by the Queen to the US?

When I Google Imaged President Queen State Dinner, I got a million pix of elegantly dressed Queens and First Ladies, and could not sort through them all to figure it out. I did note that HM very frequently wears white to occasions like this, regardless of the location. And, I will submit the following picture of what could be HM's least attractive gown:
Queen Elizabeth jokes at State Dinner - Presidential State Dinners - UPI.com

(But it was the 80's, after all.)

P.S. I happened to be in California during this particular visit, and I caught a glimpse of the Britannia slowly and sadly sailing up the coast in the torrential rains which were occurring.

P.S.2 Here's a link to the toast of President Reagan. He seems to have used the familiar "you" several times when referring to HM, so perhaps the protocol of non-subjects in speaking to and about the Queen is different from that of her subjects.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=42616#axzz1NZyNJbpb

 

[jneugeba]

So I just watched the videos of the toasts for the Indian and South African State Dinners. In both the toasts there were a few words after "a toast to the Queen" before the band started playing. Please watch the clips - they are on the British Monarchy's Youtube channel. I don't see how what Obama was trying to do was so different than either of those speeches - it appears the band started too early before he was done. It does seem he asked everyone to rise early which may be what set the band off but that doesn't seem like the horrendous break in protocol some others were trying to make this whole thing out to be.

 

[wbenson]

President Reagan went on a visit to the UK in 1982 that was a state visit in all but name. There was even a banquet at Windsor Castle.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

So I just watched the videos of the toasts for the Indian and South African State Dinners. In both the toasts there were a few words after "a toast to the Queen" before the band started playing. Please watch the clips - they are on the British Monarchy's Youtube channel. I don't see how what Obama was trying to do was so different than either of those speeches - it appears the band started too early before he was done. It does seem he asked everyone to rise early which may be what set the band off but that doesn't seem like the horrendous break in protocol some others were trying to make this whole thing out to be.

I watched it for the very first time last night on TV and I completely agree...it was definitely a little awkward but nothing like the way some poster were reporting it here. (I am referring to the Prez still talking when the band started up)

As for the manner in which the President began his speech and addressed his hosts...ICAM with the poster who said THAT is inexcusable.

It makes him look ill prepared at best, and impolite at worst.

The Chief of Protocol is asleep at the wheel when it comes to visits with foreign Royalty.

 

[Mystiblue]

Kate looked so elegant in her dress - not over-the-top. I feel she will make a wonderful Queen - she was born to be Royal !

 

[ladongas]

Google is my friend! But in this article, even BP sounds a little tentative.

http://articles.cnn.com/2003-11-14/world/statevisit.britain_1_buckingham-palace-official-visit-queen-elizabeth-ii?_s=PM:WORLD


So what's the difference between a State Visit and other official visits?"That's quite a difficult question," a Buckingham Palace spokeswoman said."There is no clear cut definition," the spokeswoman said. "I guess we would define it as banqueting with the queen.
"I know lots of presidents have done that in the past, but there's usually a carriage procession, a lot more ceremonial, usually the queen greeting the guest, a bit like when Russia's President Putin was here, there was a procession in carriages. And staying at a royal residence."

 

[Diarist]

I have been busy for a few days, but have now had the opportunity to read through this thread in its entirety, so may I try to help with a few background observations to some of people's queries?

It was good to see William and Catherine; I am sure BP felt that they should attend at one event to mark the fact that they will be making a visit to the United States themselves in just a few weeks' time. I take the fact that they did not attend at the State Banquet to be consistent with the fact that W has a 'day job' and is not yet a 'fully performing royal'.

The guestlist at the State Banquet reflects [fortunately!!] what I said in my earlier post [#5] in this thread. Eagle eyed form members will note that as it was a white tie event, tiaras were wore. At the 'return match', i.e. President Obama's banquet, the event was what we british call 'black tie'; tiaras are not worn for this.

The Duchess of Cornwall was made a member of the Royal family Order by the queen a few years ago; there was no announcement - you become aware that the Queen has bestowed the honour only when it is noticed by 'eagle-eyed royal-watchers'.

The official welcome no longer takes place at 'Horseguards' [as the 'parade area' is formally known] because of the need to minimise disruption. The practice was discontinued some years ago because of the location of Horsegaurds, which makes it necessary to close off the surrounding roads for some hours before and afterwards; this was not originally because of security concerns but because of the horse-drawn carriages and processions etc. The roads had to be cleaned both before [to get rid of any debris that might impede the carriages, injury etc] and afterwards [i.e. for cleansing and removal of what I will politely call 'horse evidence'!] This all takes time; at the pre-procession cleansing, you cannot then let in the traffic again - otherwise you would have to start all over again, in case someone dropped a sharp object or a car leaked gas etc etc! I used to work in the area, 'Victoria' as is is known [where many of the Government Depts are situated] and the need to cordon off the roads meant that it was very difficult for the dozens of tourists and workers in the area [it was almost impossible for tourists to move without hindrance from nearby Victoria Station because of all the 'activity' before and after, as well as during the State Visit; workers such as myself could not get around to the bank or post office etc in the lunch hour]. The decision was therefore taken to move state welcomes either to Windsor or to BP to avoid too much disruption. Of course, when London went onto high security alert [which we still are on....] it was also convenient to hold welcomes in this way, but it was not the original reason.

President Obama's bow; a nice touch. BP issued guidelines some years ago that it was NO longer necessary to bow or curtesy when you meet the Queen, but that HM regards it as a nice a touch. Traditionally, American Citizens did not have to curtesy anyway [unless formally presented at Court in the years up to and including the 1950's] as the American way of showing respect is to acknowledge the President as 'Mr President'. When I started work I was given a thorough grounding in protocol [which I have, I regret to say, almost forgotten!!], but I do remember our instructor saying that there was no difference in the bow/curtsey or the use of 'Mr President' as it was just that in one case 'your knee did the work and in the other case your tongue did the work!'

The apparent faux pas when the band and the President 'came on at the same time' was due to the fact that normally in State Visits, the band is given a copy of the speech of the head of state, so that they can follow this and work out when the speech has finished. In the case of this State Visit, the US Officials accompanying the President said that they did not want to give out a copy of the Speech beforehand so that it could remain 'secret' until the President spoke. The upside of this is that there is no chance of a copy of the speech being disclosed before the President speaks; the downside of course is that these little troubles arise. But is is just this - little troubles. Overall, what counts is goodwill, and I think there was plenty of this during this visit.

Security: I hope that forum members here who were a little upset over the fact that Mrs Obama did not attend the wedding of William and Catherine will now accept that there was no snub intended. I did post previously that although it was common knowledge that the wedding was meant to be a 'family affair', Mrs Obama had let it be known to the foreign office that she would have liked to attend. I also posted previously that I know that the Queen feels warmth towards the Obama family; in 2009, I was privy in my work to the fact that Mrs Obama and her two daughters wanted to drop in on the Queen after their trip to Paris - and that this wish was - quite amazingly - granted. Mrs Obama and the Queen actually embraced during this meeting [a step up from Mrs Obama putting a guiding arm round to guide HM, as had been the case previously]. The Queen also treated Mrs Obama's two daughters to a carriage ride on that occasion. This is evidence of quite a warmth between the two women. I also posted at the time of the wedding that I was quite sure that Security concerns were the made reason that a wedding invitation was not forthcoming, and I think that this was very much shown by the State Visit; the President and Mrs Obama required a quite unprecedented level of Security -substantially more police were required - literally thousands more - than is usually the case. In addition, lots of windows at BP actually had to be removed and replaced with more secure ones during the Presidential visit; none of this would have been practical if Mrs Obama had been a wedding guest - with other Crowned heads to guard, and with all the guest suites at BP being used for the wedding, it would have proved physially impossible to host Mrs Obama.

Finally - American forum members particuarly take comfort - little slips, the odd faux pas etc - don't matter much overall, if at all. Whilst it is nice if everything works out on a State Visit, in practice it can never really do so - don't forget that there is a reason why Trooping the Colour is so perfect, that Beating Retreat is so perfect, that Royal Weddings are so perfect etc and that is because the participants rehearse and rehearse and rehearse and rehearse. Even if you are only attending the Palace to receive the OBE etc, you are first taken into an ante room where you rehearse everything; if you are a guest at a Garden Party and are selected to be presented to the Queen, a hour or so before you meet her, an equerry will appear and take you through the protocol involved etc etc. On a State Visit there is NO rehearsal for the President and his entourage - and that is why these little slip-ups occurr. And as I said - they don't matter! I was taught from the very first that you look to the intent, not the effect. And I think that this is good advice.

I hope some of what I have said above helps people with some of their queries.

Thanks for bearing with me so far,

Alex.

 

[Esmerelda]

Thank you for that very interesting behind-the-scenes insight. My favourite part was the tour of the Royal Collection. I've been looking for a raw video without voiceover so I could hear what they were saying and get a better idea of what they were looking at.

 

[wbenson]

The official welcome no longer takes place at 'Horseguards' [as the 'parade area' is formally known] because of the need to minimise disruption. The practice was discontinued some years ago because of the location of Horsegaurds, which makes it necessary to close off the surrounding roads for some hours before and afterwards; this was not originally because of security concerns but because of the horse-drawn carriages and processions etc.

Are you sure it was discontinued? The President of South Africa was welcomed there just last March. They did stop the arrival ceremonies at Victoria Station (and the part of the procession that went down Victoria Street and Whitehall) a few years ago, though, for the reasons you give.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

When I Google Imaged President Queen State Dinner, I got a million pix of elegantly dressed Queens and First Ladies, and could not sort through them all to figure it out. I did note that HM very frequently wears white to occasions like this, regardless of the location. And, I will submit the following picture of what could be HM's least attractive gown:
Queen Elizabeth jokes at State Dinner - Presidential State Dinners - UPI.com

(But it was the 80's, after all.)

P.S. I happened to be in California during this particular visit, and I caught a glimpse of the Britannia slowly and sadly sailing up the coast in the torrential rains which were occurring.

P.S.2 Here's a link to the toast of President Reagan. He seems to have used the familiar "you" several times when referring to HM, so perhaps the protocol of non-subjects in speaking to and about the Queen is different from that of her subjects.
Ronald Reagan: Toasts of the President and Queen Elizabeth II at a Dinner Honoring the President at Windsor Castle in England

No, the protocol is the same. However, the Reagans and HM/DoE were/are very close personal friends.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

On what do you base the notion that the Windsors are/were "close personal friends" with the Reagans, if you don't mind my asking?

In any case, for President Reagan to have addressed HM the Queen that way was as inexcusable as it was for Obama. He was NOT a member of her family, but a fellow Head of State, and that was a STATE OCCASION.

Even her children do not address her that way in public.

The Gipper goofed, imo.

BTW...ALEX...your post was amazing and impressive...THANK YOU for sharing!

 

[KittyAtlanta]

Personal knowledge.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I see...

Well, by the same standard since Alex has "personal knowledge" that HM welcomed Michelle and her children and even embraced them, I guess we can infer that she considers THEM close personal friends, too.

She doesn't normally do this.

So maybe Obama did NOT commit the faux pas we've accused him of?

The Kennedys also, since the DoE not only attended JFK's funeral but spent quite a long time alone with Jackie afterward and did not stand in the receiving line with the other visiting dignitaries.

I guess they(the Windsors) just have a thing for those American Presidents.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

Well, Alex may have "inside info" aka: personal knowledge about the visit of the president's daughters' visit with HM. I can't see any reason why HM would not have "hugged" the girls, as they are children and American children, on the whole, are raised to be touchy-feeley.

It is a big world out there and you never know who you might be communing with on a forum, a bulletin board, or a chat room. I would never presume to say Alex isn't telling the truth of any connections s/he might have.

If the RF and the Obamas have become close personals, that is none of my business. My only hope, currently, is that this will have been the Obama's last visit to Buckingham Palace.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I have to agree with your last sentence...unless the Office of Protocol is undergoing a huge shakeup/overhaul, I think there should be a ban on any and all American Presidents visiting Buckingham Palace...or even having British Royalty visit here in Washington.

Unless HM enjoys being winked at and referred to as a 235 year old woman.

My guess is that the President is not losing any sleep over this. He has hugely more important things to worry about, as do the British Royals.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

On HM's subsequent visit, she inferred that she did enjoy Mr. Bush's gaffe. However, I don't think she was too enamoured of the "talking hat" incident.

I totally agree that Mr. Obama is not losing any sleep....

 

[texankitcat]

Well, Alex may have "inside info" aka: personal knowledge about the visit of the president's daughters' visit with HM. I can't see any reason why HM would not have "hugged" the girls, as they are children and American children, on the whole, are raised to be touchy-feeley.

It is a big world out there and you never know who you might be communing with on a forum, a bulletin board, or a chat room. I would never presume to say Alex isn't telling the truth of any connections s/he might have.

If the RF and the Obamas have become close personals, that is none of my business. My only hope, currently, is that this will have been the Obama's last visit to Buckingham Palace.

I don't know Alex's sources, but since she continues to allude to having "inside" knowledge perhaps she can enlighten us as to what that is.

The Queen may hug members of her own family or very close friends, but she is the Queen and certain formalities are followed even by her family members. We are now to believe she has thrown years of protocol out the door and now hugs wives of Presidents after meeting them once before? This doesn't sound right to me.

The consideration of inviting the Obama's to the Royal wedding but due to security concerns and removing windows from BP, etc.. in order to accommodate them also doesn't make sense. No heads of state were invited since this was not a state occasion. The Obamas are not personal friends of The Queen and her family, they are not heads of state within her realm or VIP's of charities they support. And they are certainly not Royalty. The fact is there would have been zero reason to consider that invitation, even if Michelle Obama would have liked to attend. As far as security is concerned, taking windows out of BP and replacing them with for a short visit is ridiculus and insulting. If the windows are good enough for the Queen of England, they are certainly good enough for a President of any country.

 

[Zonk]

You do realize, of course, that the Secret Service has certain requirements that they consider essential in their job of protecting the President of the United States? And that these elements are regardless of who is currently in office? And that the security of Obama and Bush has been amped as a result of the increase of terror? I am not saying that the SS has the right to ask that the windows be changed, but the protection offered pre 9/11 is not the same protection offered today.


from United States Secret Service: Frequently Asked Questions

How does the Secret Service "protect" the president?

In order to maintain a safe environment for the president and other protectees, the Secret Service calls upon other federal, state and local agencies to assist on a daily basis. The Secret Service Uniformed Division, the Metropolitan Police Department, and the U.S. Park Police patrol the streets and parks nearby the White House. The Secret Service regularly consults with experts from other agencies in utilizing the most advanced security techniques. The military supports the Secret Service through the use of Explosive Ordnance Disposal teams and communications resources. When the president travels, an advance team of Secret Service agents works with host city, state and local law enforcement, as well as public safety officials, to jointly implement the necessary security measures.

-----------------------


Also, without delving into the political persuasion of the parties involved...why is it okay to accept KittyAtlanta's personal knowledge of the relationship between the Queen and the Reagans (without any questions asked about her sources) but we need to ask Diarist (Alex) about the Queen and the Obamas? Is there some concern that he is making this up?

 

[texankitcat]

Did I say I accepted KittyAtlantas personal knowledge of the Reagans relationship with the Queen? No I did not. In fact, I haven't commented on it at all. I have heard that Reagan and Margeret Thatcher had great respect for one another, but I know nothing about the Queen having a great friendship with them. As that was many years ago, and not part of the current discussion regarding the Obama's relationship with the Queen, I didn't feel it was necessary to comment.

I feel when anyone posts that they have "personal" knowledge or "insider" information on a subject, that they should explain what that is. I am not inclined to accept whatever anyone says as gospel truth based on the fact that they preface it with "insider" or "personal". Particularly when the context does not make sense.

Sorry!

 

[LOSSEAN]

Reagan actually called Diana "PRINCESS DAVID" which is even worse...it would have been technically correct to call her "Princess Charles" as you pointed out.

I don't think so. My records don't show that anywhere.