Sarah, Duchess of York Current Events 18: January 2014 - July 2018

[jacqui24]

He’ll hardly be hanging around her in a crowd of 800! But her absence would certainly be attributed to his feelings.

And what would those feelings be? It's normal not to invite your uncle's ex-wife from 20 something years ago even if you've seen her once in awhile in those years.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Mark Phillips has moved on better with his life IMO.
Sarah has clung on to her 10 years of life as The Duchess of York to the point of living with her ex-husband. Even Andrew still refers to her as The Duchess of York. I think that she's his "non negotiable."

Very good point Osipi! Would Mark Phillips be receiving an invitation as well since he's in the same situation as Sarah?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Very good point Osipi! Would Mark Phillips be receiving an invitation as well since he's in the same situation as Sarah?

But is he?

What is his relationship with Harry today?

We know that Harry has holidayed with Sarah. Has he holidayed with Mark? Maybe, maybe not.

Being the divorced spouse of an uncle or aunt doesn't necessarily mean that there is the same personal relationship this far on.

 

[jacqui24]

A holiday five or six years ago hardly qualifies as close though. Especially since Harry went likely because of his relationships with others that were there and Sarah just happens to be there as well.

 

[ladongas]

Yes, but Sarah was there as his hostess, not just another guest.

 

[Zonk]

Since we don't know exactly how much Harry does or doesn't see Sarah....if she does get an invite its because he obviously wanted her there. Harry apparently is closer to the Yorks than Wililam is and William appears to be closer to the Phillips than Harry is. But at the end of the day, they are all family.

My parents were divorced for over ten years and my father was invited to my cousin's (the daughter of my mother's sister) wedding...and they barely saw each other during those ten years. But to her...he was still her Uncle and she wanted him at her wedding. Now my mother was pissed, but at the end of the day..it wasn't her day.

 

[ladongas]

I don’t think Sarah deserves to be such a whipping boy (girl).

 

[Curryong]

As far as I know, and I've followed Harry fairly closely for years, the only vacation taken with the Yorks was the holiday he took at Verbier at the beginning of 2013. Cressida B was there, it was virtually the start of their romance, Andrew, Sarah and the York princesses were also present. Andrew celebrated his birthday there, and they all stayed at the ski chalet.

I haven't heard of Harry staying there since or taking any more holidays with the Yorks as a family, though there's no doubt he is close to his cousins. He hasn't been photographed socialising with Sarah since then either.

 

[cepe]

All the posters on here seem to know about re relationships between Harry and Sarah is what is written in the tabloids (ie DM)

If H likes Sarah (and she has always seemed a nice, positive person if a trifle dim) then she should be invited.

The main reason most of us query this is because we have all read the stuff about DoE not having her anywhere near him.

Well he has to her near him re Eugenie's wedding so maybe this is a dry run

 

[Curryong]

All the knowledge about the private lives of royals that anyone gathers who doesn't work for or live with the BRF comes from the press, tabloids and from magazines and or biographies, and there are very very few posters on this forum who take the DM's word as gospel, to say the least.

And why should Harry's wedding be used as a dry run? William is Sarah's older nephew. Prince Philip knew Eugenie would be getting married at some time in the future. Why wasn't that grander wedding used as a dry run with an invitation to Sarah? Why use Harry's nuptials as an experiment in Grandpa's tolerance, if indeed he does feel that way about Sarah, as it seems he does?

 

[RoyalHighness 2002]

And why should Harry's wedding be used as a dry run? William is Sarah's older nephew. Prince Philip knew Eugenie would be getting married at some time in the future. Why wasn't that grander wedding used as a dry run with an invitation to Sarah? Why use Harry's nuptials as an experiment in Grandpa's tolerance, if indeed he does feel that way about Sarah, as it seems he does?

Because of the Cash for Access debacle and it seems that with William, there is no, does he/doesn't he, it's almost clear he does not like Sarah.

 

[Leopoldine]

Because of the Cash for Access debacle and it seems that with William, there is no, does he/doesn't he, it's almost clear he does not like Sarah.

Philip is always pointed out as the one against Sarah, but I think that Andrew's siblings dislike her just as much. IMO not one of them would want her to join Andrew in the family pews at St. George's where she would be ahead of 2 of them in the seating arrangement, which is done in order of precedence.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I would hope that both Edward and Anne would not be so petty as to deny Sarah her place beside Andrew and Andrew and Sarah's daughter's wedding (at other occasions yes but not at either Beatrice or Eugenie's weddings).

 

[Pranter]

Just seems to me if Harry were even somewhat friendly with Sarah we'd see some sort of socializing between them and there's only once almost 5 years ago.

We've seen pics of the York girls with Harry doing things etc. The only time you see Sarah (with the BRF) is with the girls or once in a while with Andrew.

So no don't believe that Sarah is popping round to KP to visit the Wales brothers and their families nor do I think they are socializing with her at any time.

I used to really like Sarah. After the 'cash for access' situation happened I don't think very highly of her, I don't think she's evil, I think she's her own worst enemy and I feel pity for her. I do think she killed off any progress in repairing relationships with various members of the BRF when she did that.



LaRae

 

[Katrianna]

Philip is always pointed out as the one against Sarah, but I think that Andrew's siblings dislike her just as much. IMO not one of them would want her to join Andrew in the family pews at St. George's where she would be ahead of 2 of them in the seating arrangement, which is done in order of precedence.

There is an anecdote that after the photos of Fergie and John Bryan were released while the Royal Family was at Balmoral, it's been written that when Sarah came down to breakfast, both Anne and Charles were seated at the dining table both deliberately holding up papers in front of them with the photos in full view. So I think it's quite fair to point out that Philip is always the one written as the main family member objecting to Sarah, but Anne and Charles aren't her fans either. I don't have a clue as to how Edward feels about her.

 

[jacqui24]

Yes, but Sarah was there as his hostess, not just another guest.

Andrew was his host as it was his place. Just because they have this living arrangement doesn’t mean she’s hosting Harry when he goes to visit his uncle. Look I’m not trying to say they are anything but cordial to each other when they do run into each their, but way too much is being read into those few days five or six years ago. A few days at Verbier doesn’t mean he goes on vacations with his former aunt regularly. Heck, he doesn’t even vacation with his uncle regularly other than at family gatherings, which Sarah isn’t invited to.

 

[jacqui24]

I would hope that both Edward and Anne would not be so petty as to deny Sarah her place beside Andrew and Andrew and Sarah's daughter's wedding (at other occasions yes but not at either Beatrice or Eugenie's weddings).

I completely agree with that. And I think all the members of BRF love the girls enough to be cordial or at least not be mean about it for those two days. But I think the discussion was around whether or not she’d be invited to Harry’s wedding.

I do have one question for you though based on your knowledge and expertise with the workings of royal family. How do you see the seating arrangement if she is invited to Harry’s wedding? With the family? Which would be quite odd given she’s no longer married to Andrew and there definitely hasn’t been signs that she’s nearly as close to him as people like Mark Dyer or Tiggy (I know someone compared Sarah’s relationship to Harry to his with Tiggy, but that just seems odd to me as Tiggy took care of him as a youngster and comforted him during what is probably the darkest period of his life). With other guests? That’d be odd too given that means she’ll be seated apart from her daughters.

 

[royal rob]

If she does go I think it would be the after party only. But I can’t see them risking her running to the media with details of their wedding

 

[Countessmeout]

DM is reporting that she will be attending, at the very least the evening party. That Harry has pushed the issue, insisting she attend.

Honestly I think if she got an invite she would be able to keep her mouth shut out of respect for her nephew. I think she has been felt so left out for so many years, watching her daughters from a distance, she would be happy to be part.

Mark Phillips has moved on better with his life IMO.
Sarah has clung on to her 10 years of life as The Duchess of York to the point of living with her ex-husband. Even Andrew still refers to her as The Duchess of York. I think that she's his "non negotiable."

Because she still is. Until the day she remarries she is Sarah, Duchess of York. Its not a title, it is her last name. Its what is proper to refer to her as.

Mark is not comparable. Mark was always a private citizen. He continued his equestrian career during their marriage. Life went on after they divorced. And their divorce was not civil, he moved on before they were divorced, as did Anne.

Fergie on the other hand spent years as a member of the royal family. Her job besides raising her daughters, was supporting her patronages. She wasn't going to go back to her jobs she had pre-marriage, and as a divorced former royal there aren't that many job options. Her and Andrew chose to remain in the same home when the girls were younger to give them one house and more stability. They wouldn't be the only divorced couple who eventually came back together.

Honestly if not for the cash scandal, and likely Philip, I think these two would have remarried years ago.

 

[jacqui24]

The problem with Fergie is that she hasn’t kept her mouth shut over the years for Andrew or her daughters, so what makes us think she’ll keep her mouth shut for Harry? It’s who she is.

And Fergie has had a lot more work opportunities than those working for the Firm. She’s written at least one book and has had deals with Weight Watcher and Avon. According to her, she would’ve had a lot more had the cash for access scandal not come out, which she has no one to blame but herself.

 

[Mirabel]

And why should Harry's wedding be used as a dry run? William is Sarah's older nephew. Prince Philip knew Eugenie would be getting married at some time in the future. Why wasn't that grander wedding used as a dry run with an invitation to Sarah? Why use Harry's nuptials as an experiment in Grandpa's tolerance, if indeed he does feel that way about Sarah, as it seems he does?

William doesn't seem to interact much with the Yorks.
I read that Beatrice has twice tried to enlist his help about joining the Firm, but he has always refused.

Harry, on the other hand, is said to be close to Eugenie, and he and Meghan have supposedly double-dated with Eugenie and Jack.
I think H/M are prepared to put up with Fergie for the sake of her daughters.

But of course, no one really knows who will be invited at this stage. The articles are clickbait, but none of the press has seen the guest list.

 

[jacqui24]

At the end of the day, if Phillip and Charles both hate Fergie, I don't see Harry going to the bat for her just because she is Eugenie and Beatrice's mother. I don't invite the mother of everyone I'm close to to my wedding and that's normal. It's actually more odd to invite them if you aren't that close to them. Other than that one ski trip, I don't think I've read anything to indicate Harry is close to Fergie.

Look, I think all of the Queen's grandchildren are close to each other, but some might be closer than others for no reason other than what stage they are in life. I'm sure all of them would be cordial to Fergie if they ran into her somewhere as there isn't a personal reason not to, but that doesn't equate to a wedding invitation if other members of your family can't stand her. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Fergie attended Zara or Peter's wedding either. There isn't any particular reason why it'd start now.

 

[ACO]

I completely agree with that. And I think all the members of BRF love the girls enough to be cordial or at least not be mean about it for those two days. But I think the discussion was around whether or not she’d be invited to Harry’s wedding.

I do have one question for you though based on your knowledge and expertise with the workings of royal family. How do you see the seating arrangement if she is invited to Harry’s wedding? With the family? Which would be quite odd given she’s no longer married to Andrew and there definitely hasn’t been signs that she’s nearly as close to him as people like Mark Dyer or Tiggy (I know someone compared Sarah’s relationship to Harry to his with Tiggy, but that just seems odd to me as Tiggy took care of him as a youngster and comforted him during what is probably the darkest period of his life). With other guests? That’d be odd too given that means she’ll be seated apart from her daughters.

I agree. Eugenie's wedding is a different matter. That is her daughter and the BRF will just have to suck it up. Harry's wedding... Sarah will have to suck it up. If she is there then she won't be with the other royals in the family section because she is not one. They are divorced regardless of her and Andrew's private situation. We won't know for sure until the wedding unless something come out before them. I won't be surprised either way.

 

[TLLK]

I used to really like Sarah. After the 'cash for access' situation happened I don't think very highly of her, I don't think she's evil, I think she's her own worst enemy and I feel pity for her. I do think she killed off any progress in repairing relationships with various members of the BRF when she did tha

I have similar feelings about Sarah. What disappoints me the most is how she thoughtlessly disregards the feelings of those who are affected by her behavior: former employees, those who are affected financially due to her overspending, and those she hurts with her careless comments during interviews.

 

[Duchessmary]

Just my opinion, but honestly, what silliness! Why shouldn't Sarah be invited? If you want to get picky, Charles married the woman who caused Diana considerable anguish, and no one seems to have a problem with that. We're all human, and we all do stupid things. Give the woman a break.

 

[Leopoldine]

But of course, no one really knows who will be invited at this stage. The articles are clickbait, but none of the press has seen the guest list.

Bingo.

IMO these latest DM "royal aide" quotes about Harry "nailing his colours to the mast" and making people "feel part of the day" don't sound like anything a BP, KP or CH staff member would care to say, anonymously or not.

 

[jacqui24]

Just my opinion, but honestly, what silliness! Why shouldn't Sarah be invited? If you want to get picky, Charles married the woman who caused Diana considerable anguish, and no one seems to have a problem with that. We're all human, and we all do stupid things. Give the woman a break.

Because Camilla has been good to William and Harry over the years and she is married to their father. Fergie doesn't seem to have much to do with the boys' lives after her divorce and she's no longer a member of the BRF. Simple.

I'm not saying no one deserves forgiveness since every relationship is complicated. I don't think Harry has to forgive Fergie to anything either. There is just no reason to expose his family to her possibly running her mouth to the media. And certainly no reason to make his grandfather, father, and aunt, whom we know Harry is close to, uncomfortable as they are known to not like her. They will have to suck it up as it is for one wedding this year, no reason to have them go through it twice.

 

[miss whirley]

When did William ever holiday with her and her ex-husband and children after her divorce? Never.

Harry, on the other hand, has often stayed with the Yorks in Switzerland and so has an ongoing relationship with Sarah that William doesn't have.

They have different family dynamics. I would be very hurt if I had opened my holiday home to a nephew who then didn't invite me to his wedding. That would show a certain lack of decency on behalf of said nephew.

You're absolutely correct. William and Harry have a very different relationship with her. By her own admission she hasn't spoken to William since around the time his mother died. Also her scandal and her Oprah interview happened less than a year before William's wedding. There was no way she was getting invited.

As you mentioned Harry has communicated with her in recent years and has vacationed with her and stayed at her lodge. If she's close enough in Harry's circle to be invited to his best friend's wedding (Skippy) then she'll surely be at his. Especially since the BRF has become a little more inclusive to her in recent years.

 

[sndral]

Just my opinion, but honestly, what silliness! Why shouldn't Sarah be invited? If you want to get picky, Charles married the woman who caused Diana considerable anguish, and no one seems to have a problem with that. We're all human, and we all do stupid things. Give the woman a break.

I am confused, I am reading a thread about Sarah, the discussion is about whether she will be invited to Harry’s wedding, what on earth does who Charles married have to do with either subject? I believe Sarah was not invited to Anne’s second wedding, Charles’ second wedding, Edward’s wedding, Peter’s wedding, Zara’s wedding or William’s wedding. Perhaps she will attend Harry’s. Certainly she will be at Eugenie’s.
And regarding causing Diana anguish, Sarah apparently did her part to contribute to Diana’s angst since we know that when she died Diana wasn’t speaking to Sarah and had cut Sarah off.

 

[MARG]

Well, much as I despise the DM I hope it is true that Harry has invited Sarah to his wedding. Sarah has never been anything but kind to him and his best friends include his cousins, with the way even friends run at the mouth, perhaps ever his most loved.

To continue to punish Sarah for sins committed over twenty years ago shows a coldness that Harry just doesn't have. He understands his mother had an eating disorder and I believe he is intelligent enough to know that courtesy of the media calling her things like "the Duchess of Pork", etc, Sarah too has been a victim of eating problems, too and the media keep hammering her and she keeps smiling.

Andrew and Sarah inhabit the same homes, the Verbier Chalet is in both of their names and Andrew has solidly nailed his colours to the mast. They are one of the happy families of Harry's life, divorce or no divorce, they are family, why on earth would he not invite them.