"Royals and the Reich: Princes von Hessen in Nazi Germany" Jonathan Petropoulos 2006


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This sounds like a very intresting thread.
 
The thread is going off topic again. It's supposed to be a discussion of the book. If the participants can't keep off the topic of politics, we'll close the thread.

Elspeth

Royal Forums administrator
 
melissajames said:
I agree with Beatrixfan, from what I know of Hitler that he was a man with the gift to inspire and draw people to believe him. He provided a vision and inspired people who were in absolute desperation because of the aftermath of WW1.

But I want to emphasis that he was a man who used his gift and talent to evil evil means, so awful that I wonder if anyone could have had enough courage to stand up to him even if they knew exactly what was going on. I identify zero with the propaganda ideals but I have to admit, this man was a genius when it came to manipulating people.

I can't make up my mind yet to what extent the royals were to blame and how big a part they played. But history belong to the victors and I am not sure whether there is ever any unbiased views as such.
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This is interesting to know. I think when people are desperate (and fear is the core of desperation, imo) they are especially vulnerable. But again, I have to think that while the general population may not have fully understood what exactly what was going on, I do also wonder how much history may be 're-written' which sometimes happens when these types of books come out.

What I mean is, how honest and objective will this book be, especially if the publisher is actually trying not to offend royal sensibilities?
 
King Kong said:
I've read the book and I can tell you it's not as 'historical' as the title may suggest.
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Martin, would you be kind enough to share with us what you think of the book and what you found most interesting about it. I would really like to know what the readers think of it. Thank you :)
 
alejandro_sk said:
When Hitler ordered Danish Jews to wear the yellow star, the Danish Royal family wore it too and asked their people to do so too, so the Nazi (not German) troops could not tell who was who. Tha Danish Royal family was brave enough to defy Hitler. Why couldn't other royal houses do the same? I mean, it was possible!Alex
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Some, Royal families,fought against Fasism and Nazism escaped the last moment to Middle East.Other collaborated with Nazis,other lost thrones because of them!
 
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melissajames said:
Martin, would you be kind enough to share with us what you think of the book and what you found most interesting about it. I would really like to know what the readers think of it. Thank you :)
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Yes, I would be interested in reading some commentary about this book too:)
 
ChevalieurduCiel said:
Dear Kerry,as I've said,"when you are called BY YOUR COUNTRY,not by a political party!"Again,if Nazis, are the totaletarian coverment and Germany calls you,you HAVE TO GO and do, what they tell you to do!You ,as citizen,have no choice!! From the other hand,Nazis have the problem of victory or Loss!!That is why by the end of WWII none of the recruiting soldiers was punished,only members of the party(Various Ranks)went on trial.Not even jews said anything about German people!!
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Okay. I see that I misunderstood what you were saying. Sorry.:eek: I understand from history that a lot wasn't said or "reported" and fear had to be the motivating factor behind that.

Have you read the book yet? I've ordered mine and will definitely express my views on it once I read it.
 
I have never posted before, but realize that there is a great lack in the present education of young people as to the real evil of the Third Reich. Many royals jumped on the bandwagon fully aware of the evil nature of the Third Reich. The "we knew nothing" group is nonsense. When the Nuremberg Laws were posted, denying Jews everything including citizenship, what did they think. They didn't care. Being anti-semitic in royal circles was the business of the day. It was also the business of the day for the general German citizen. Main Kampf outlined everything. Kristallnact certainly was a prelude for things to come and very violent. German troops wrote letters that have been printed to their families describing the massacres of Jews in Poland and Russia. Putting Jewish children and women in "labor camps" was okay? DACHAU, RAVENBRUCK, BUCHENWALD, were on German soil. What did they think was happening there. Many German aristocrats found Hitler repugnant from the beginning and worked against him for many years. But there are too many who found this acceptable, until after when it made them pariahs.
 
Welcome to the forum, redfox6! Have you read the book?
 
No, have read hundreds of Third Reich books and would love to read this, too.
 
ChevalieurduCiel said:
Some, Royal families,fought against Fasism and Nazism escaped the last moment to Middle East.Other collaborated with Nazis,other lost thrones because of them!
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Yes, that's true. I have not read that book but I know that King Leopold III of Belgium almost lost his throne during that time. What I said about the Royal Danish house is also from another book. There was a bit of everything during that time and I'm afraid we'll never get to know the whole truth.
Alejandro
 
Lillia said:
Yes, I would be interested in reading some commentary about this book too:)
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Hi melissajames and Lillia!
I didn't find this book fascinating, to tell you the truth. There are no historical 'revelations' as the jacket promises. There is no gossip either. :eek: What you find is, in my opinion, a tidy, uncompromising book that describes the history of a Royal family (in a way).
I very much doubt some of the accussations made to princes Philipp and Christoph von Hessen-Kassel. Some of Hitler's men were prominent people in German society on their own and didn't need any help to be accepted. (Foreign minister von Ribbentrop was a well-known member of German 'top' society.) And even if the authors claim to have had access to royal records, much of what took place in that time will remain a mystery. Both sides (Axis and Allies) destroyed many, many documents in order to lend more credibility to their stances.
So, as a history book, it is forgettable. As a book about Royals, it is not very interesting and, personally, I would take many statements issued there with a pinch of salt. :rolleyes:
I would like to hear some other opinions as well, please. :)
Cheers!
Martin
 
King Kong said:
Hi melissajames and Lillia!
I didn't find this book fascinating, to tell you the truth. There are no historical 'revelations' as the jacket promises. There is no gossip either. :eek: What you find is, in my opinion, a tidy, uncompromising book that describes the history of a Royal family (in a way).
I very much doubt some of the accussations made to princes Philipp and Christoph von Hessen-Kassel. Some of Hitler's men were prominent people in German society on their own and didn't need any help to be accepted. (Foreign minister von Ribbentrop was a well-known member of German 'top' society.) And even if the authors claim to have had access to royal records, much of what took place in that time will remain a mystery. Both sides (Axis and Allies) destroyed many, many documents in order to lend more credibility to their stances.
So, as a history book, it is forgettable. As a book about Royals, it is not very interesting and, personally, I would take many statements issued there with a pinch of salt. :rolleyes:
I would like to hear some other opinions as well, please. :)
Cheers!
Martin
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Thank you Martin. I really appreicate your thoughts. In that case I will probably try and borrow this book from friends instead of spending money on a new copy. :D

Cheers! :)
 
redfox6 said:
I have never posted before, but realize that there is a great lack in the present education of young people as to the real evil of the Third Reich. Many royals jumped on the bandwagon fully aware of the evil nature of the Third Reich. The "we knew nothing" group is nonsense. When the Nuremberg Laws were posted, denying Jews everything including citizenship, what did they think. They didn't care. Being anti-semitic in royal circles was the business of the day. It was also the business of the day for the general German citizen. Main Kampf outlined everything. Kristallnact certainly was a prelude for things to come and very violent. German troops wrote letters that have been printed to their families describing the massacres of Jews in Poland and Russia. Putting Jewish children and women in "labor camps" was okay? DACHAU, RAVENBRUCK, BUCHENWALD, were on German soil. What did they think was happening there. Many German aristocrats found Hitler repugnant from the beginning and worked against him for many years. But there are too many who found this acceptable, until after when it made them pariahs.
Click to expand...

Welcome Redfox :)

That is what I have been told by my history teacher at school a few years ago. I think it will always be a matter of debate to what extent were the royals responsible and how big a part they played. I think some royals were much more involved than others. Many thanks for your input. :p
 
redfox6 said:
No, have read hundreds of Third Reich books and would love to read this, too.
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I'm very glad to have your opinion, I did wonder how much 'selective amnesia' would be used on the issue of actually holding certain royals accountable for their involvement. Like the picture of one such royal, shown with a member of the party, said to be giving them money, said to have interacted with them and moved in those circles, said to have had relatives and friends who were supporters, but at the same time it is said '' don't believe your lying eyes, we can't prove he actually sympathized with that party". I also think some people, royal and otherwise, sympathized until they figured out things were not going to play out as they bet (while at the same time they let others did the actual 'dirty work' and ignored it). I have no doubt that some people probably even switched sides after it became apparent that the party was going to lose.

I agree, it is totally reasonable to expect that a re-visionist history would have taken place given the circumstances.

just my opinion.
 
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People believe what they want to believe but that's not just confirmed to Germans under the Nazis.

Over the years its been written just how utterly banal and commonplace some of the Nazis were. Recently a German researched his grandfather who was a Nazi and said he was struck by how nondescript and how normal he appeared. He was accused of trying to whitewash his grandfather which was not the case, he didn't deny the atrocities.

You could say he was revising the story of his grandfather to reconcile himself with the fact that his grandfather was a murderer but you could also say his detractors were also grappling with an uncomfortable truth.

If there was nothing special about the Nazis, the rest of the world could not say with assurance that the atrocities of the Third Reich couldn't happen here, couldn't happen with us. And that is a far more uncomfortable truth.

So who's doing the revising? I don't know, I think everybody is to some extent because the truth and the horror of it is so shocking.
 
ysbel said:
People believe what they want to believe but that's not just confirmed to Germans under the Nazis.

Over the years its been written just how utterly banal and commonplace some of the Nazis were. Recently a German researched his grandfather who was a Nazi and said he was struck by how nondescript and how normal he appeared. He was accused of trying to whitewash his grandfather which was not the case, he didn't deny the atrocities.

You could say he was revising the story of his grandfather to reconcile himself with the fact that his grandfather was a murderer but you could also say his detractors were also grappling with an uncomfortable truth.

If there was nothing special about the Nazis, the rest of the world could not say with assurance that the atrocities of the Third Reich couldn't happen here, couldn't happen with us. And that is a far more uncomfortable truth.

So who's doing the revising? I don't know, I think everybody is to some extent because the truth and the horror of it is so shocking.
Click to expand...

This is a very good point too!

Sometimes it is very difficult to come to grip with certain truths, especially when they are hideous, and may apply to loved ones, or 'beloved' public figures. That does not excuse it, but it is true that people do sit in denial about certain things because the reality is very ugly. That's why it is probably so easy, in hindsight, to demonize some of the main people in the Nazi party, because everybody else, wants to think that the bad guy is actually someone else and someone that would look evil, rather than think that it would ever be the sweet caring grandparents, or loving neighbors, or nice schoolteacher, or grocer down the road.

Again, that does not mean to excuse anything. But I do understand your point!
 
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melissajames said:
Thank you Martin. I really appreicate your thoughts. In that case I will probably try and borrow this book from friends instead of spending money on a new copy. :D

Cheers! :)
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You're welcome, melissajames!
I think yours is a wise decision. Then, once you've read the book, you can order it. And when you read it, please let me know what you think of it. It's a pleasure to be able to share opinions with other members. :)
Cheers!
Martin
 
I've deleted a lot of posts from this thread, for being off-topic, and moved several to a separate thread regarding stories about Christian X of Denmark.

This thread is about discussion of the BOOK "The Royals and the Third Reich." As mentioned earlier, there is a thread in the Royal Chit Chat part of TRF, that is about what monarchs did during WWII, if one wishes to discuss that.

If anyone has complaints, or comments on the decisions of the moderators, please do so via the PM system.

If the thread cannot stay on topic or the posters can't abide by TRF's rules here, which would be a shame, then the thread will be closed.

Norwegianne
TRF Moderator
 
Does anyone know if this book covers the activities and sympathies of the Duke of Windsor?

Any truth to speculation that his abdication was also due to his Nazi sympathies?
 
Lady Bluffton said:
Does anyone know if this book covers the activities and sympathies of the Duke of Windsor?

Any truth to speculation that his abdication was also due to his Nazi sympathies?
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Hi milady! :)
As far as I recall the book does not mention the Duke of Windsor.
As to speculations about his abdication, well, there are many ;) (though not in this book) but which would be the correct thread to talk about that? :confused: :rolleyes:
Cheers! :)
Martin
PS. Well Lady Bluffton, if you want to discuss the reasons for the Duke's abdication, I'll meet you there, at the thread Warren pointed out.
 
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King Kong said:
As far as I recall the book does not mention the Duke of Windsor.
As to speculations about his abdication, well, there are many...but which would be the correct thread to talk about that? :confused:
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How about this one: Duke and Duchess of Windsor thread.
 
Warren's a moderator at the British forum. Knowing where to find obscure threads is part of the skill set!
 
Finding old threads

King Kong said:
Thank you so much!
Where did you find it? :confused: It must have been quiet for some time because I never saw it! :eek: Cheers!:) Martin
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On the first page of every Forum is a Threads in Forum listing. This is the table of contents where many topics lie dormant, waiting to be brought to life every so often.
As an example, here is page 1 (of 15) from the British Forums Threads in Forum list.
 
I got the book from Amazon.com but haven't even opened up the box yet. I've been so busy going to college basketball games. In the States its referred to as March Madness!

Anyhoo...I'm going to my last game tonight and plan to open up my box this weekend.
 
There is another book about a British Family and the Third Reich and a personal relationship with Hitler. All the five daughters were involved with socialism or communism. They were part of the upper class and I believe the mother was a lady. It's been so long since I read the book. I wish I could remember the name. Maybe someone else knows it. The reason I recommend it in this thread is many of you have discussed support of Nazi's and why and how. This book spends much time covering why the sisters believed the Nazi's were doing good and some of the "ideals" they had and how some were so easily sucked into that sphere. It did say in the book that in Britian in the early days of the Nazi party a lot of people supported them. Thinking they were going to do good for the masses. Then things changed and people tried to distance themselves very quickly. I will try and find the name of the book on Amazon or Barnes and Noble. I think if you like this topic it might be a good primer on why people believed or choose to believe what they did.
 
Okay, found it. The family it the Mitford family. The book was called "The Sisters: The saga of the Mitford family" by Lovell. I will warn you the first 100 pages are a bit of a bore as they give the background on the family. But once the girls come of age it starts to pick up. The climatic parts are about them and the third reich, then the book picks up to follow their lives since. It's the kind of book you read and think after your done these young women were so stupid they wasted their promising lives. But I guess that is the message of the book too. These women had everything and just threw it all away. Interesting book b/c it details an intimate relationship w/ the third reich and Hitler himself. The authors talked with many people, including family and looked at correspondence etc. Worth a read if you are trying to understand the people of the time. It may help explain why some "royals" and others were so supportive of what we know was evil. It won't justify but it will explain.
 
odd Duchess out

Fashionista100 said:
There is another book about a British Family and the Third Reich and a personal relationship with Hitler. All the five daughters were involved with socialism or communism.
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Not all the Mitford daughters; one became the Duchess of Devonshire!
 
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