Royal Wealth and Finances 2: Sep 2022 -

[RabbitRabbit]

The interior design issue was a tender (contract) and offered to others. They chose Camilla’s sister because she obviously knew their taste and would be discreet. It wasn't a scandal, the only person who made it seem a scandal was Richard Kay, a pro-Diana journalist who was implying that Charles was paying Annabel for favours for “keeping secrets” which is silly. That case was not shady or corrupt and cannot be compared to this issue

Thank you at the time it was widely reported that it wasn't tendered out so all of that must have been incorrect. I think for simplicity it would have been better to avoid a relative in case people felt it was wrong. Many companies have rules on this, perhaps things have changed now. Over 1m pounds to a realtives company is still just that. So this is all in the past now then.

 

[tommy100]

Honestly, it doesn't really seem to have had a huge impact here in the UK from what I have seen. Those who dislike the monarchy will jump on it as a reason to get rid of it, some will speak out and defend them (and likely trip themselves up along the way) but the vast majority of people are probably more bothered about how the recent budget is going to affect them and their finances.

In terms of the UK news cycle - it doesn't seem to have had an impact, there are more pictures of the Spanish King in UK newspapers tonight / tomorrow than any UK royals.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Thank you at the time it was widely reported that it wasn't tendered out so all of that must have been incorrect. I think for simplicity it would have been better to avoid a relative in case people felt it was wrong. Many companies have rules on this, perhaps things have changed now. Over 1m pounds to a realtives company is still just that. So this is all in the past now then.

Why should that have been an issue? The late Queen hired her late Cousin Elizabeth Shakerley to do parties and no one complained. The article was written in the summer when royals were on vacation and it was old news because it was reported in 2009 so pointless for Kay to write up on it. Hardly anyone cared about that at the time.

 

[Marengo]

For context, members are discussing this article:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1852743407283691730

 

[Hallo girl]

I would agree it is not a good look that NHS , defence etc are paying but the Duchies are businesses. If the land had been owned by Joe Bloggs and they offered it for rent and charged the business rate would anybody have commented, or said that is terrible that they are paying rent. That is not corrupt.
As for the rentals, we do not know enough to comment. All I will say is that any property not heated properly will result in mould.
I read previously that William had already requested a full report on the Duchie. Possibly he already planned changes . Change does not happen overnight, we must remember the LQ was born in 1926, a different time.
Employing a relative is understandable if you wish privacy and reduce the risk of your business appearing on social media or hello magazine. Once again not corrupt as long as the work was done.

A great deal has taken place in the last 2 years, let us see what happens next.
I think long term the POW will make changes.

 

[muriel]

I think a lot of people are very shocked and dissapointed in what has happened with the Royal Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall. With such large management teams running them, many staff very highly paid, the welfare side is shock and the money taken from the NHS, Government Defense Departments and charities that people give to is horrifying. None of this needed to happen. It's greed, Parliament tried to investigate this lack of management transparency by extemley well paid tweedy gloating people a number of years ago and were fobbed off, with men in expensive suits drawing a veil over the money. It would have been better to have been sorted out back then in the 2000s and the books fully opened.

I hope there can be a big cultureal change in terms of who they employ. Not people who ignore saftey reports from Geologists and forelock tug as they enjoy a very comfy life. Yes, I have met some in the South West. It can be better, people deserve better from a Royal Family any Royal Family. I believe most Royals in the job wouldn't behave this way towards people (in terms of allowing profiteering from public insitutions in dire need of money) remembering the vows taken by the monarch to serve etc. Such a huge dissapointment to see this happen under the monarchs watch and hopefully there can be a change of direction that will benefit people and keep a Royal Family to avoid a Republic. The Insider deal interior style contracting that Camilla's sister got for decades at the Duchy was probably a warning of bigger internal problems sadly. I believe we need a Royal Family, one that cares and isn't drawing off huge sums each year and more in touch with people. This is so sad and a waste of public good will and hard work by more junior Royals and C and W who are heading the Duchies that should probably be taken to court. I feel this was all avoidable and people didn't need to suffer this way. £11m given back to the hospital Trust in London and £30+m back to the court system for Dartmoor Prison if I recall correctly could do a lot of good.

C and W should have CEO oversight and some of these things are very serious, for them not to be informed should be a sackable issue and for them to have known would be heartbreaking. Hopefully this can get sorted out fast and people moved into better housing and moneis repaid to the NHS, struggling state schools and all other institutions. I feel it flys in the face of traditional Royal behaviour and the positive aspects of monarchies. I pray the monarchy survives the Windsors, well the Mountbatten-Windsors money managers and a corrupt unchristian ethic.

I saw the Channel 4 Dispatches program almost by accident as I thought it would be talking about something else going on in the British Royal Family regarding finances that's in the press at the moment and we've all heard far too much about; i.e. more York family mess ongoing since the mid 1980s.

I believe this can get fixed and problems taken away with safeguards against insider hires etc in the future but it will need to be done as soon as possible.

I think you are missing the point. The Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall respectively own properties that they let out commercially. As it happens, some of the tenants happen to be government agencies, including the NHS, the MoD and the Prisons service. There is no obligation for those tenants to rent from the respective Duchies, they can go and rent elsewhere if they can get a better deal. So, IMO, this is just a bit of rabble rousing, it really does not have much substance.

 

[Hallo girl]

I think a lot of people are very shocked and dissapointed in what has happened with the Royal Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall. With such large management teams running them, many staff very highly paid, the welfare side is shock and the money taken from the NHS, Government Defense Departments and charities that people give to is horrifying. None of this needed to happen. It's greed, Parliament tried to investigate this lack of management transparency by extemley well paid tweedy gloating people a number of years ago and were fobbed off, with men in expensive suits drawing a veil over the money. It would have been better to have been sorted out back then in the 2000s and the books fully opened.

I hope there can be a big cultureal change in terms of who they employ. Not people who ignore saftey reports from Geologists and forelock tug as they enjoy a very comfy life. Yes, I have met some in the South West. It can be better, people deserve better from a Royal Family any Royal Family. I believe most Royals in the job wouldn't behave this way towards people (in terms of allowing profiteering from public insitutions in dire need of money) remembering the vows taken by the monarch to serve etc. Such a huge dissapointment to see this happen under the monarchs watch and hopefully there can be a change of direction that will benefit people and keep a Royal Family to avoid a Republic. The Insider deal interior style contracting that Camilla's sister got for decades at the Duchy was probably a warning of bigger internal problems sadly. I believe we need a Royal Family, one that cares and isn't drawing off huge sums each year and more in touch with people. This is so sad and a waste of public good will and hard work by more junior Royals and C and W who are heading the Duchies that should probably be taken to court. I feel this was all avoidable and people didn't need to suffer this way. £11m given back to the hospital Trust in London and £30+m back to the court system for Dartmoor Prison if I recall correctly could do a lot of good.

C and W should have CEO oversight and some of these things are very serious, for them not to be informed should be a sackable issue and for them to have known would be heartbreaking. Hopefully this can get sorted out fast and people moved into better housing and moneis repaid to the NHS, struggling state schools and all other institutions. I feel it flys in the face of traditional Royal behaviour and the positive aspects of monarchies. I pray the monarchy survives the Windsors, well the Mountbatten-Windsors money managers and a corrupt unchristian ethic.

I saw the Channel 4 Dispatches program almost by accident as I thought it would be talking about something else going on in the British Royal Family regarding finances that's in the press at the moment and we've all heard far too much about; i.e. more York family mess ongoing since the mid 1980s.

I believe this can get fixed and problems taken away with safeguards against insider hires etc in the future but it will need to be done as soon as possible.

Why should people be taken to court could you clarify what crimes have been committed or alleged.

 

[tommy100]

Yes, I don't get the huge drama about public services renting from the Duchies - it is a commercial decision for those bodies to take. For example, one of the things talked about was that a number of charities rented office space for millions of pound in an office block owned by one of the Duchies. Well if the charities want to do that then that is up to them - no one is making them and they'd be just a likely to go to the Grosvenor estate, Portland estate, Cadogan estate or the Canary Wharf group owned by Qatari businesses and pay them that level of rent for offices in their buildings instead.

Likewise with the NHS, schools etc paying rent to the Duchies - they have chosen to enter a commercial relationship with one of the Royal Duchies. Unless there are examples of public bodies or charities being forced to enter commercial dealing with the Duchies I don't see the issue. The Duchies are simply landlords and if a landlord has the property you need in the location you need at a comparable rate then you rent or lease from them, if not you walk away.

 

[RabbitRabbit]

It's about the expectations of a public institution. I think for a tiny rural primary school to be paying 15.6k a year to the Royal family is quite a suprise to many people and we, certainly I don't know if they are in any way legally or contractually able to avoid this. The school stood on that land for a long time. Frankly the people Charles has hired have been sharks in tweed suits in many cases. Also the British public are larelgy unawre of how much money charities spend in rents and executive salaries and for advertising and faithfully hand over money hopeing to help. The Royal Family patronising the big charities is not helping this. It's about knowledge and awareness and the idea of the Royal Family acting as a hard headed commercial business along the lines of the other big estates isn't what many imagine or feel them to represent or the image they work for but day by day they hired in people who have worked for those other companies with a cold blooded (large salary exepcting) mindset so I think they have lost sight that people may feel a distinction.

Aristocrats looking for profits and a Royal Family representing a nation and helping and serving people are not the same thing. Anyway, I think I'm speaking to a one-sided team here, it is across the British press and I've said my piece and I understand the Royal Household have a degree of media control as well that they use access as a leverge for. I was so very saddened, it feels instinctively wrong for them to be doing this or a Crown holding family supposedly representing a duty of care. Try and see the documentary and look at all the problem areas, the mining that is unsafe and harmful to locals and known to be in this day and age. The people in Cornwall are ignored. The hydro electricuty generation in the north of England could be hugely helpful but the local council has been strong-armed out of developing it as the Duchy of Lancaster wants it's cut. How badly do they need the money? I just think things can be better and should have been done better with much more heart and love for the people.

 

[blooms_rulers]

It's about the expectations of a public institution. ... How badly do they need the money? I just think things can be better and should have been done better with much more heart and love for the people.

The Duchies are not public institutions. That you think they are might be why you're feeling this way. These two private institutions exist for one single reason--to provide a private source of income to the monarch/heir to the throne. That's it. They are not in the business of charity. They are in the business of making money. Therefore, they make decisions with the bottom line in mind.

 

[tommy100]

Exactly, they are closer to being like the privately held Grosvenor, Cadagon or Portland estates than a public institution. Should all thee family owned estates be expected to offer properties to good causes for free? Their purpose it to make a profit so they can provide an income to the Sovereign and heir.

I suspect that at times that does go a little far and that if Charles and William had their say more would be done pro-bono but again, the Duchies are a profit making business

 

[RabbitRabbit]

This is a disctinction that many people won't recognise as long as the tax payer supports them to any extent. If they took no public funding and all the Crown Estate was reverted to the Government without rebate then they would be seen as more private individuals but private landlords would be in a lot of trouble for sadly keeping people in bad accomodation but they have it both ways now. Privacy and freedom from oversight to some degree by being Royal but acting like hard headed businessmen.

I feel not all Royal families and I feel another family placed in this position would not have necessarily done this and given to government services or charged 'pappercorn rent' as we say here but they have. I feel it has been all avoidable.

I believe in monarchy but not treating people like this. It is not what being Royal is about, there are other ways to do things and take things forward.

 

[blooms_rulers]

This is a disctinction that many people won't recognise as long as the tax payer supports them to any extent. If they took no public funding and all the Crown Estate was reverted to the Government without rebate then they would be seen as more private individuals but private landlords would be in a lot of trouble for sadly keeping people in bad accomodation but they have it both ways now. Privacy and freedom from oversight to some degree by being Royal but acting like hard headed businessmen.

I feel not all Royal families and I feel another family placed in this position would not have necessarily done this and given to government services or charged 'pappercorn rent' as we say here but they have. I feel it has been all avoidable.

I believe in monarchy but not treating people like this. It is not what being Royal is about, there are other ways to do things and take things forward.

I don't believe that British people's confusion as to the nature of the duchies and their ultimate purpose is really much of a problem. Every now and then the press likes to create headlines when there isn't anything else to write about and a little anger ensues. It dies down and all goes on as before.

The duchies have always existed to provide a private income. They will continue to do so. The duchies are unique among European royals, so there's no other European monarchy they can be compared to.

There's nothing wrong with how people or charities have been treated. If an organisation decides to lease from a duchy, it enters into an agreement to pay a set fee and receive agreed-upon services. If that agreement no longer meet their needs, they are welcome to not renew the lease. Same as any other agreement with a private entity.

 

[RabbitRabbit]

Houses with energy band F and G grade usage are reportedly illegal for use as housing and one tenant was infomed of this by her local council in 2020, she lived there until recently. Legally landlords in this country have some minimum legal responsibilities to tenants in exchange for their rent. In some areas tenants have not been able to find other housing they have been quoted as saying because the Uchy owns it in the local area. Many are witholding names at present in the press due to fear of the local clout of the Duchy management. I have been in the South West, I know this is a real factor. People are scared to keep jobs locally and not get on the wrong side of some but not all Duchy connected figures.

Another family just hypothetically, here doing the work of a reigning Royal Family, protestant Anglican and British wouldn't necessarily see fit to treat people this way. Not everyone is comfortable to do that to people, everyone has different thresholds of acceptability. Watch the whole documentary if you can.

 

[Hallo girl]

I have no intention of watching the documentary simply because I have watched some of their output before which I found lacked balance. All very one sided, repeating claims by others that have already been debunked . For that reason I do not watch their output.

 

[Durham]

The Duchy of Lancaster is always run by a member of the government so the monarch is not responsible for its operations. If there are questions to answer it’s for the Chancellor of the Duchy to deal with.

On the other hand. the Duchy of Cornwall website implies strongly that both the present & previous dukes are/were very much hands on. What that means in practise I’m not sure. It does seem very unlikely, bordering on not credible, that either duke would be happy with tenants living in sub-standard accommodation. But evidently some do & that is not acceptable. Hopefully this will be dealt with speedily.

Both estates do ultimately belong to the state so public oversight is appropriate & reform should implemented if needed.

 

[RabbitRabbit]

The Duchy of Lancaster is always run by a member of the government so the monarch is not responsible for its operations. If there are questions to answer it’s for the Chancellor of the Duchy to deal with.

On the other hand. the Duchy of Cornwall website implies strongly that both the present & previous dukes are/were very much hands on. What that means in practise I’m not sure. It does seem very unlikely, bordering on not credible, that either duke would be happy with tenants living in sub-standard accommodation. But evidently some do & that is not acceptable. Hopefully this will be dealt with speedily.

Both estates do ultimately belong to the state so public oversight is appropriate & reform should implemented if needed.

Yes C and W have emphasised how hands on they like to be so things like this in that case if they have the same moral and Christian standards as others should not be happening so something isn't as it appears or is shown. Reform has been needed for a long time and they need to hire in different people I think who really know the area in many of the senior roles, not well connected outsiders getting a royal name on their CV as several senior Secretaries of the Estate have been in the past. If you watch films of Charles talking or walking and talking with Duchy senior management in the past it's very cringe and feudal/deferential rather than professional.

 

[Hallo girl]

Yes C and W have emphasised how hands on they like to be so things like this in that case if they have the same moral and Christian standards as others should not be happening so something isn't as it appears or is shown. Reform has been needed for a long time and they need to hire in different people I think who really know the area in many of the senior roles, not well connected outsiders getting a royal name on their CV as several senior Secretaries of the Estate have been in the past. If you watch films of Charles talking or walking and talking with Duchy senior management in the past it's very cringe and feudal/deferential rather than professional.

Who are these people who are well connected outsiders. To be honest I am finding your comments rather broad and generalised. You suggested in a previous post that people should go to court, but you have failed to say who these people are and what the alleged crimes are.
That is Dispatches for you.

 

[Curryong]

New Documentary Sparks Controversy Over King Charles and Prince William’s Money

An extensive investigation has claimed that royal Duchies, which raise “personal” income for the sovereign and heir, are charging the NHS, British Armed Forces and charities millions.

www.townandcountrymag.com

This gives the reactions to the documentary from various officials and public figures. Personally, I feel that both Duchies are overdue for reform.

For instance, as far as I know, no other heirs in constitutional monarchies have centuries’ old arrangements with their governments which free up many millions from properties, businesses and land to provide a yearly income.

As has already been suggested the Duchy of Cornwall income could be replaced by a yearly allowance for the Ps of Wales and later Pr George, and that might well come in the future. Just because the Duchies are centuries old doesn’t mean that everything is set in stone for the next generation.

 

[Hallo girl]

New Documentary Sparks Controversy Over King Charles and Prince William’s Money

An extensive investigation has claimed that royal Duchies, which raise “personal” income for the sovereign and heir, are charging the NHS, British Armed Forces and charities millions.

www.townandcountrymag.com

This gives the reactions to the documentary from various officials and public figures. Personally, I feel that both Duchies are overdue for reform.

All organisations need to keep on top of reform so I wouldn’t dispute what you are saying. Change shouldn’t be made for the sake of it, we need to keep to the facts.

 

[RabbitRabbit]

I haven't said names because of the families of the male, for Cornwall it looks like all male, directors or recent decades who creamed off huge salaries and social kudos and their management list is not on the Duchy website like Lancaster has shown. If Charles had had two or three daughters there would need to be changes as female heirs are still banned. Had baby 3 happened for Charles and Diana this could have been a great project for a younger child to devote full time work to as for a PoW perhaps it's too much but a daughter would be barred from involvement as I understand still legally. If the family had run it more closely it would not need to possibly be lifted off them (if that happens) to protect tenants and people living near their mining sites. It's a shame either way it would have been great for the crown to manage well.

 

[Hallo girl]

I haven't said names because of the families of the male, for Cornwall it looks like all male, directors or recent decades who creamed off huge salaries and social kudos and their management list is not on the Duchy website like Lancaster has shown. If Charles had had two or three daughters there would need to be changes as female heirs are still banned. Had baby 3 happened for Charles and Diana this could have been a great project for a younger child to devote full time work to as for a PoW perhaps it's too much but a daughter would be barred from involvement as I understand still legally. If the family had run it more closely it would not need to possibly be lifted off them (if that happens) to protect tenants and people living near their mining sites. It's a shame either way it would have been great for the crown to manage well.

When is the Duchy being removed ?
I am withdrawing from the discussion, to be honest I am finding it all a bit strange with no facts just unsubstantiated accusations of criminality.

 

[blooms_rulers]

When is the Duchy being removed ?
I am withdrawing from the discussion, to be honest I am finding it all a bit strange with no facts just unsubstantiated accusations of criminality.

It's not being removed. This is just a lot of speculation based on a one-sided documentary. There is currently no legislation planned to re-work how the private incomes of the monarch and heir are funded, and I seriously doubt the Labour government is going to take that up this term.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

For context, members are discussing this article:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1852743407283691730

Thank you. Direct link to the report on the joint investigation by The Sunday Times and Channel 4’s Dispatches program:

Revealed: the property empires that make Charles and William millions

The Sunday Times has uncovered every plot of land owned by the ancient Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall and the business deals with the NHS, schools and military that help fund the royals

www.thetimes.com

Revealed: the property empires that make Charles and William millions

archived 2 Nov 2024 16:07:38 UTC

archive.ph

 

[Chimene]

A lot of people have been planting the seeds for years with the aim of eroding trust and support for the monarchy. It would be a lot more honest if the press, the government, or whatever external forces behind this “expose” (about info that can be found in their annual reports online) would state outright and present a case for why they believe the UK should become a republic. You can’t cherry pick and purposely leave out pertinent facts and details in your reporting. This why no one really believes anything media outlets say anymore.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

It would be a lot more honest if the press, the government, or whatever external forces behind this “expose” (about info that can be found in their annual reports online) would state outright and present a case for why they believe the UK should become a republic.

But investigation of monarchy-related subjects does not mean the members of the press, government, etc. who are carrying out the investigation are necessarily republicans (that would be similar to assuming that journalists investigating a republican presidential administration's activities must be monarchists).

And many people, including myself, who would never even think to seek out and read the annual reports of the duchies may nevertheless see and be informed by the investigative report.

You can’t cherry pick and purposely leave out pertinent facts and details in your reporting. This why no one really believes anything media outlets say anymore.

Can you explain what pertinent facts and details have been left out from this particular article?

 

[Chimene]

Can you explain what pertinent facts and details have been left out from this particular article?

I didn’t watch so I’ve only seen snippets. The mold story is one example. The other is that the duchies are taxed. The King donated profits to the government last year. I think the UK citizens who would know the history of their country better than me can give you a rebuttal.

If you (meaning those who seek to) want to end a country’s system of government, it’s not up to me either way, perhaps you should propose what you have in mind to the people you need to make that happen. And I would start with being factual and transparent.

This former journalist is a royalist, but here’s his response.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1853007864916226059

 

[Curryong]

Tony Wickenden: A reminder royal tax rules are set apart | Money Marketing

Unsurprisingly the focus of any recent debates on royal taxation has been on inheritance tax. There will no doubt have been more than a raised eyebrow in some quarters over the fact that there is no inheritance tax on assets passing from one Sovereign to the next on private assets.

www.moneymarketing.co.uk

Article pointing out the certain different tax arrangements granted to certain Royals in comparison to other British people.

Also

The Guardian view on King Charles and the Duchy of Lancaster: feudalism reigns in the north-west | Editorial

Editorial: The secret exploitation of dead people’s assets to upgrade the monarch’s estate must come to an end

www.theguardian.com

 

[DukeOfWashington]

For context, members are discussing this article:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1852743407283691730

The issue here is that what we now know is that even though it is a constitutional monarchy where the monarch is figure head, he also happens to be landlord for SO MANY of his subjects including the democratic government in his land AND armed forces.

I would also add that it's quite ludicrous for a king to say to his country's Navy, you can do what you need to here to keep our country safe BUT you need to fork over some coins to me in order to do so. Ludicrous.

 

[Curryong]

King and Prince William’s estates ‘making millions from charities and public services’

Duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster likely to make at least £50m from leasing land to services such as NHS and schools, according to investigation

www.theguardian.com

King Charles bills NHS hospital £11m to park ambulances on his land

In the show, seen by MailOnline, it reveals how they have taken millions from cash-strapped public services and charities and broken government rules by renting out properties with poor energy efficiency

www.dailymail.co.uk