Royal and Noble Families of Poland and Lithuania

[BeatrixFan]

And of course, Poland almost got a new Royal Family in the 30s in the shape of George and Marina of GB. Hitler put pay to that little plan but it's interesting that today's Duke of Kent could have been King of Poland.

 

[magnik]

Constitution of the Duchy of Warsaw
was passed by Napoleon on 22 July 1807 in Dresden under the terms of the Treaty of Tylza following his victories over Prussia and Austria
Tytuł II. O rządzie / Part II. About the goverment
Art. 5.
Korona książęca warszawska jest dziedziczną w osobie króla saskiego, jego potomków, dziedziców i następców, podług porządku następstwa ustanowionego w domu saskim.
-What means that under the new Constitution, the Duchy of Warsaw became a constitutional monarchy. The throne was taken by Napoleon’s ally, Frederick August III, King of Saxony, who assumed the title of Duke of Warsaw. Principal power was hereditary by king of Saxony and his descendants, successors and inheritors, according by saxonian order of succession.

Constitution of the Kingdom of Poland
was granted to the Congress of Poland by tsar f Russia and king of Poland Alexander I of Russia 27 Nov 1815. The Kingdom of Poland was a constitutional monarchy in real union with the Russian Empire. Each tsar of Russia was also king of Poland (as in a personal union. The Polish crown was inherit by Kings/Tsars descendants, successors and inheritors according to succession of the emperial throne.

Small Constitution of 1919
which entrusting Józef Piłsudski with the further execution of the office of Chief of State.

March Constitution of Poland - 17 March 1921
according with it Poland has a President of the Polish Republic.

 

[magnik]

And of course, Poland almost got a new Royal Family in the 30s in the shape of George and Marina of GB. Hitler put pay to that little plan but it's interesting that today's Duke of Kent could have been King of Poland.

Like it was 14 years ago with Prince Edward and Estonia's Royalist Party

 

[BeatrixFan]

I'd forgotten about that! I wonder if that will come to anything.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

The Reigning head of the Royal Order, Kingdom of Poland is HRH Princess Diana Lenska, who resides in New York, NY at this time. She is setting up court in Utica, New York. She descended from Marie Leczinska, the Polish Princess who became Queen of France when she married Louis XV in 1725. Through the German line of her family she is related to Marie Antoinette. You may find her on myspace at

MySpace.com - Princess Diana Lenska - 39 - Female - New York - MySpace.com - Princess Diana Lenska - 39 - Female - New York - www.myspace.com/princesslenska

I'm not so sure about this. Looks like a pretender to me, I mean, all of the signs are there. Futhermore, I would question those who claim to be directly descended from a royal line, and advertise it on Myspace (excluding Aleaxnder Schaumburg-Lippe who has a legit page of course.)

 

[magnik]

Lenska ....

I found surname Łubieński and this family recived a title of counts in 1798 by Friedrich Wilhelm III of Prussia.

There are surnames Lubieński and Lubiński too.

Just found http://royalorderkingdomofpoland.com/ ???


But be honest everyone could/can write that he/she is a descendent of Queen or King of something.

 

[BeatrixFan]

And what exactly is this "Royal Order of the Kingdom of Poland"? Very strange.

 

[magnik]

Good queation BeatrixFan
Maybe it has smth with order of succession or it's kind of some order...


Btw I found (maybe it was post I don't know) but only on Polish - list of the usurpers to the Polish throne:
Polscy samozwańcy - Wikipedia, wolna encyklopedia

 

[BeatrixFan]

The thing is, these "Orders" usually equal some kind of con which involves selling membership and she does have Knighthoods and Damehoods for sale on Ebay. Not good.

Though the site you linked is in Polish, I noticed Maria Vladimirovna on the list. Which is interesting because I haven't thought of her position in regard to Poland, Lithuania, Latvia etc.

 

[magnik]

The thing is, these "Orders" usually equal some kind of con which involves selling membership and she does have Knighthoods and Damehoods for sale on Ebay. Not good.

Though the site you linked is in Polish, I noticed Maria Vladimirovna on the list. Which is interesting because I haven't thought of her position in regard to Poland, Lithuania, Latvia etc.

Yes, she means that she has right according with Constitution of the Kingdom of Poland from 1815.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Indeed. Though I wonder; if Maria ever did get the Russian throne back, would she still use her other European titles?

 

[magnik]

Questions of kind of this - what would happen if?

If Maria someday get back the Russian throne she could use few other titles which Tsars had used.
"The official titles of the Russian Emperors were: Emperor and Autocrat of all the Russias, of Moscow, Kiev, Vladimir and Novgorod, Czar of Kazan, Astrakan, Poland, Siberia and the Taurian Peninsula, Lord of Pskov, Grand Duke of Smolensk, Lithuania, Volhynia, Podoloia and Finland, Prince of Estland, Livland, Kurland, Ingermanland, Bialystok, Karelia, Iougria, Perm, Viatka, Bulgaria and other countries, Lord and Grand Duke of Nizni-Novgorod, Tchernigov, Riazan, Polotsk, Rostov, Jaroslav, Bjelozersk, Oudoria, Obdoria, Kondinia, Vitebsk and Mstislav, Ruler of the Polar Regions, Lord of the lands of Iveria, Kartalinia, Georgia, Karbardinia and Armenia, Hereditary and Supreme Lord of the Tcherkessian Princes, of the Princes of the Mountains and of others, Heir to Norway, of the Duchy Schleswig-Holstein, of Stormarn, of Dithmarschen and of Oldenburg." (from Henri van Oene's site)

Btw At the moment she use the title of Queen of the Russian Empire of Poland or smth like that. But our historian say that her climets hasn't basics becouse Polish Sejm removed Romanovs from our throne and otherside during I WW Nicholas II recognized Regency Council and resign.

 

[Palatinus]

Again, there are numerous royal lines of Poland, including the Tsars of Russia. It's not like it is in Austria or Germany where the dynasty and the heir is obvious. Most Eastern European monarchies were elected monarchies, very similar to how the Holy Father, the Pope is elected. A council of nobles gets together and decides.

I'm not so sure about this. Looks like a pretender to me, I mean, all of the signs are there. Futhermore, I would question those who claim to be directly descended from a royal line, and advertise it on Myspace (excluding Aleaxnder Schaumburg-Lippe who has a legit page of course.)

A lot of the Eastern European nobility were repressed or even murdered by the coming of the Communists. Even in my family we had to hide or destroy a lot of our artifacts and papers showing our nobility and listing of lands and honors. If you didn't and were caught by the commies, you were either executed or sent to a slave-labor camp.

So I can understand that nobles and potential royals of Eastern European heritage may not have the resources to pay for "proper" advertising of their claim.

I don't think it really matters where they present their case so much as they present their case.

Myspace is actually ideal considering the millions of people on there and the social networking aspect.

In my case, I chose Blogger because it simply has a better blogging engine than Myspace. Plus I'm not advertising a claim to royalty, though I can do so based on some of my ancestry.

 

[Alastair_r]

Anyone know anything about Prince Mikush Sapieha ? X

 

[magnik]

Anyone know anything about Prince Mikush Sapieha ? X

Mikush ??? or you mean Michał/Michael?

 

[Lakshmi]

Is/are any real, not usurpers, potential successor to Polish throne? Someone from the Poniatowski family?
There are no a lot of information about another quite long ruling dysnasty: Jagiellon dysnasty, they seem not to have any descendants...

 

[zarat]

A potential successor could be someone from Saxe family as it was already metinoed by somebody from this forum some time ago

 

[magnik]

Is/are any real, not usurpers, potential successor to Polish throne? Someone from the Poniatowski family?

No becouse for the king was choosen only one member of the family not the family. Beside Stanisalus August doesn't have legal descendants.
Only from morganatically marriage.

There are no a lot of information about another quite long ruling dysnasty: Jagiellon dysnasty, they seem not to have any descendants...

About Jagiellon dynasty Jagiellon dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In Poland the dynasty in male line end in 1572 in female end in 1596.
After them we've got the Vasa dynasty - the Polish branch with Sigismund III Vasa (Zygmunt III).
Drzewo genealogiczne Jagiellonów - Wikipedia, wolna encyklopedia

Btw. Jagiellonian kings were electioned like it was with many othe Polish kings after them.

Few of Władysław II Jagiello descendants Descendants of WÅ‚adysÅ‚aw II JagieÅ‚Å‚o=

 

[Lakshmi]

It looks like Władysław II Jagiello descendants are not even Polish anymore, of course many Polish kings were not Polish too.
There is something interesting about Stanislaw Poniatowski children from his morganatic marriage with Elzbieta Szydlowska. They all had last name Grabowski, after Szydlowska first husband name. Her husband passed away in 1789, and all her and Poniatowski children were born during formal marriage with Grabowski. I understand that those children did not inherited title, estate ect, because of marriage status. But still it was strange, Poniatowski never gave them his last name, or some different name, that they always carried their mother's 1st husband last name. Were they ever officially recognized by Poniatowski as his children?
Stanisław August Poniatowski - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Prince of Poland]

Sigrid Storrada

Sigrid Storrada - wife of two great monarchs.

What do you think about her ???

 

[Lakshmi]

Beautiful picture, who was this lady?

 

[Jo of Palatine]

It depends on what relation Diana Lenska is to Elena Poniatowski and if she really is related to Maria Leszczyńska as she claims. If she can provide a family tree with an unbroken line from Maria to herself and secure evidence then she may have a stronger claim than the Poniatowkskis but I doubt it.

As Maria Leszczyńska only ever was married to the king of France, all her male line descendants were Bourbons and princes of France. IIRC the male-line of Louis XV. died out in 1883 with the death of the duc du Berry, leaving only a daughter.

If we go for the semi-salic line of Maria Leszczyńska, then this goes via Charles X. - Charles, duc du Berry - Louise Marie, through marriage duchess of Parma. She had a son, duke Robert I. From Robert I. the line should go via Xavier to Carlos Hugo, the present claimant to Parma, husband of princess Irene of the Netherlands and from him sometime in the future to prince Carlos Javier, the eldest son.

I can't see where this Diana Lenska fits in with the Bourbons?

 

[Jo of Palatine]

And of course, Poland almost got a new Royal Family in the 30s in the shape of George and Marina of GB. Hitler put pay to that little plan but it's interesting that today's Duke of Kent could have been King of Poland.

Plus there was a Habsburg-archduke, Karl Albrecht, who wanted to become king of Poland - of the "Królestwo Regencyjne" - the "regent's kingdom of Poland" which existed during WWI from 1916 to 1918. Emperor Franz Joseph supported his claim, as did Wilhelm I and other kings but when Karl I. ascended the Habsburg-throne, he stopped the proceedings. None-the-less, archduke Karl Albrecht stayed in Poland after 1918, took on the name Karol Olbracht Habsburg-Lotaryński and married a Swedish commoner, thus loosing his title of archduke. In 1949 Otto von Habsburg created him prince of Habsburg-Altenburg.

 

[Warren]

As Maria Leszczyńska only ever was married to the king of France, all her male line descendants were Bourbons and princes of France. IIRC the male-line of Louis XV. died out in 1883 with the death of the duc du Berry..

Right year, but it was the Comte de Chambord (Henri V), the son of the duc du Berry, who was the last of his line.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Right year, but it was the Comte de Chambord (Henri V), the son of the duc du Berry, who was the last of his line.

You're right, I was talking about him, the brother of Louise Marie of Parma.

 

[chaz]

,The lady has included spurious information in her article. The Lithuanian pagans did not worship snakes as the lady states,without attribution. The Lithuanian pagans revered the forces of nature as personified by various gods and goddesses. Perkunas the god of storms, Saulius god of the sun, and Perkunetele goddess of rain and fertility. I suggest the lady read THE BALTS by Marya Gimbutas, Praeger publishers. CHAZ Szlachta Noble

 

[chaz]

The population of Lithuania was not Ruthenian. The population of Lithuania has always been Lithuanian, Balts. The reconquest of Poland-Lithuania had its first success against the Teutonic Knights in the year 1411 with the recapture of the city of Dobrzyn. The battle of Grunewald was in 1453 when the Knights were totally defeated and thereafter became vassals of the Polish Crown.

The Jagiellonians were the the last hereditary monarchs of Poland the line went extinct in the 16th century. King Sigismund Augustus was the last of the Jagielonnian monarchs and died without legitimate issue. Thereafter the monarchy became elective,any Polish noble was eligble to be put forward as a candidate in the Sejm. Any Noble in the Sejm could exercise the Liberum Veto and block the candidate for the Crown of Poland, unless said candidate received unanimity he would not be elected. If the factions for any candidate (if more than one candidate) were large enough they could form confederations and settle the matter militarily.

At the time of Jagielo- Wladislavs ascension to the throne of Poland-Lithuania the Vatican refused to recognize Lithuania as a kingdom in spite of her military power, because Jagielo refused to forcibly convert the Lithuanian people to Christianity.

The Poniatowskis were raised to the monarchy by Russian Autocrat Catherine at the time of the first partition of Poland. WIKIPEDIA cannot be trusted ,anyone can change anything there hence Poniatwski as heirs to the throne of Poland.

I believe there were no Czartoryskis who were King of Poland.

Titles of Nobility were eliminated in the 16th century. Excepting the title Prince. The Title Prince in Poland after the end of hereditary monarchy was merely the highest rank among Nobles.

The too liberal rules of inheritance contributed to Polands downfall. In the days before individual titles of nobility were abolished, every member of the family bore the title, male and female alike,afterward in The Polish Nobles Republic every person born in a noble family received the status NOBLE. As you can see eventually nobles became the majority of the population. And need I mention the Liberum Veto?

As beautiful and famous as she may be, Rula Lenska is not a Countess. There are no more Counts in Poland, just as there are no heirs to the Throne. While her ancestors may have borne the Title Woiewoda,all she is now is another Sclachetny Pani.

Tracking Polish Nobles is rather easy (in the SZLACHTA the Polish equivilent of BURKES PEERAGE in the UK).

 

[chaz]

Battenburg was changed in fear of the rampant germaniphobia of the time just as was von Saxe Coburg to Windsor. Chaz

 

[chaz]

This may be lese majesty , but does anyone really want the Tsars back?

 

[chaz]

I now continue with my narrative History of Poland: The period we now enter, was the most fractious, draining and bloody until 1939. It has been called "The Deluge." Part of the Thirty Years War. It pitted the Polish Nobility against Sweden and themselves. King Sigismund III Vasa King of Poland,and Sweden and was interested in expanding Swedens influence in the southern Baltic region, two scions of the house of Vasa were put up as candidates for the Polish Throne Karl Gustav Vasa was a Lutheran. His brother, Johan who was the Elector of Saxony, and had converted to Catholicism to appeal to the Polish Nobility also changed his name to Jan Casimir, to further appeal to them. Amongst the supporters of Karl Gustav was Grand Hetman, Prince Janusz Radziwill of Kedaini, Lithuania and Commander Lithuanian military forces. His kinsman Boluslav Radziwill conspired with Prince Janusz in the upcoming treachery . (more presently)Chaz

The Cosacks were a heterogeneous group made up of Ukrainians, Tartars i.e. (Mongols), Ruthenians and Turks. Their main occupation, was warfare. These superb and ruthless warriors began a revolt in the year 1648. The revolt commenced with the killing of Polish Nobles their overlords in the Ukraine,(since the 14th century)they also began murdering Jews whom the Lithuanians and Poles had granted asylum from the Inquisition in Jagielonian times. The Cosacks had it all their way for a time until the Polish armies arrived,at that time the Cosacks under the leadership of Ataman Bogdan Kmelnitski retired to the Saich (a wild nether region of steppe and swamp to the south. At the very same time the problems with the succesion were exacerbating. Next instalment, War with Sweden Chaz

How did tiny Lithuania come to control such vast areas of land? Actually it was by default, Duke Svitragaila and the forces under him were drawn up preparing to do battle with Tartar forces under Batu Khan near the Vorksla river. The Mongol Tartars had just received a message that the Great Khan had died in Chinas Forbiden City. Batu was a grandson of Temujin (Ghengis) and wanted to hurry back to guarantee that his interests were represented. Batu broke camp and left the scene. Svitrigaila was now in possesion of Ukraine,Volhynia, Podolia and Ruthenia. This made tiny Lithuania a powerful nation and an attractive subject for the dynastic union with Poland. Chaz