Romanov Rescue 1917-1919: Action and Inaction


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
The Dowager Empress Marie and her daughters were rescued by the British after the Germans who occupied the Crimea. The Germans occupation of the Cremea came after the signing of the Treaty of Brest Litovsk. I find it ironic that the very treaty Nicholas was opposed to was ultimately what led to sparing the lives of his mother and sisters.
 
Source „The fall of the Romanovs“ by Mark D. Steinberg and Vladimir M. Khrustalev
Russian documents translated by Elisabeth Tucker
The book uses correspondance between Nicholas and Alexandra during the 1917 revolution as well as parts of their diaries, government minutes, telegrams ...


From the minutes of the first session of the Council of Ministers of the Provisional Government, on evicting the Romanovs, 2 March 1917:
P.N. Miliukov (minister of foreign affairs) „... reported that the Soviet of Worker's Deputies asserted the necessity of evicting them beyond the borders of the Russian state, both for political reasons as well as for the safety of their future residence in Russia. ... Concerning the place of residence of these persons, there is no need to insist on eviction outside of Russia, and should they wish to remain in our state, it is necessary only to limit their place of residence within known boundaries, equally limiting the possiblity of their movement.“


Note from Nicholas to General Alekseev intended for the Provisional Government 4 March 1917:
„Request from the Provisional Government the foll. Guarantees:
  1. That I and accompanying persons not be hindered as we travel to Tsarskoe Selo.
  2. That the stay in Tsarskoe Selo will be safe and secure until the children accompanying the above persons are fully well.
  3. That the trip to Romanov (Murmansk) on Murman with the same persons not be hindered.
  4. That, at war's end, we come back to Russia for permanent residence in the Crimea – at Lividia.“
Aleksandr Kerensky's speech to the Moscow Soviet 7 March 1917:
„... But in the shortest time possible, under my personal supervision, Nicholas II will be taken to the harbor and will leave from there to England by ship.“


On March 6 Pavel Miliukov informed George Buchanan the British ambassador of Nicholas wish to go to Romanov and inquired, if the British government were prepared to carry out the next steps to take them out of the country.


Two days later the British Foreign Office uttered concern for the safety of Nicholas without an invitation being made. It was Buchanan's task to check if Denmark or Switzerland wouldn't be better suited. This following a conversation between Alexandra and the British military attaché. Alexandra obviously feared an extended travel by sea and preferred Denmark. However, the Provisional Government feared that both countries were too close to Germany and Nicholas might have fallen into the hands of the Germans.


Miliukov insisted – after being informed on the British response March 8 – that Nicholas stayed in England until the end of the war. March 9 Buchanan received the information that Nicholas as well as his family could come to England for the duration of the war provided the Russian government would bear the costs. Miliukov received the answer March 10. However, March 9 there was a storm of protest when the Petrograd Soviet heard of the plan to evacuate Nicholas and his family to England. Therefor Miliukov's hands were bound, in particular considering the stipulation on the expenses.


(For further information see George Buchanan „ My mission to Russia“ London 1923)


Buchanan was informed by telegram that the invitation was withdrawn 31 March following internal British political discussions as outlined in other posts. Not only because of the intervention of Arthur Stamfordham. Also the Liberal prime minister, David Lloyd George, obviously had little to none sympathy for the Ex-tsar.
 
Thank you for posting that information and the source.
 
Setting aside the DNA controversial entries, Shay McNeal's book, THE PLOTS TO RESCUE THE TSAR , reveals to us that she was engaged in a search to discover various plots to rescue Nicholas II. Along the way she came across RECUING THE CZAR, which you can read on the following online site.

Rescuing the Czar by James P. Smythe - Full Text Free Book

Of course, there are obvious points which tell us that the author/authors were not aware of Alexei's hemophilia, or, he/they would have ended the book, RESCUING THE CZAR, differently.

But McNeals hasn't directed you toward this book because she believes every word written in it really happen to the Romanovs. She discovered that some of the story might have been based on some truths, real plots to rescue Nicholas II...

I believe that McNeal's book is not a book for a novice who has little or some knowledge about the life of Nicholas II and his family. I believe, its a book for people like myself who are always looking for answers to questions most of you wouldn't even think of asking.

Sometimes I buy a book just because of one sentence or a particular source that carried me into the most interesting adventures about the Romanovs and sometimes just about people like the author/authors of this obsure book RESCUING THE CZAR, Shay McNeal and a woman whom I know as Elisabeth, who's father-in-law published RESCUING THE CZAR in San Francisco and who is one of the leaders of a group who do not like THE PLOTS TO RESCUE THE TSAR.

I've heard pros and cons about McNeals book, and, you will no doubt see a flurry of posts that will follow mine. The majority will not want you to "waste your money".

When I have time, I'll post some of the rescue plots McNeal believes she had found in her search.

Gotta run.

AGRBear
 
Hi Bear,
I agree, the book isn't for a novice. I'm glad you posted the link to Rescuing because I don't think you can grasp a lot of what Shay says without reading it and knowing the history behind it. I also know Elisabeth, she doesn't really like to talk about Rescuing or at least that is my experience with her. Shay's book is about plots and conspiracies and is a good read from that standpoint. My biggest problem was with her discussion of the DNA. She could have written the book without that. The discussion of the plots and conspiracies to save the Imperial Family could stand on its own.
I'll get my book and try to help in posting some of the alleged plots she discusses.
Lexi
 
Last edited by a moderator:
THE PLOTS TO RESCUE THE TSAR
by Shay McNeal

p. 22
>>...In addition to political circumstanes, Germany, the Allies and Japan, as well as several other nations, still had ties to the Tsar that influened their reaction to the revolution and shaped behind-the-scenes intrigues. As we shall see later, the manoeuvers, which grew from these considerations, generated a chain of actitivities in the various countries that have remained mysterious and virtually untraceable until now.<<

Chapter 2 then goes into detail about all the "Parties In Interest".

Apparently, Tobolsk and later Ekaterinburg were swarming with all kinds of factions in 1918.

Tracking down the various Bolsheviki involved in preventing a rescue is just as complex as trying to discover all the different factions (personal, political, and men looking for adventure and glory, and, last but not least, there were the military leaders, who had their own agendas) who were plotting to rescue Nicholas II. Added to this mix were the double and triple agents.

It is my point of view that we pick a particular rescue plot and discuss it before moving to other plots.

Since we not just talking about Shay McNeal's book, only including her information, I believe one of the first plot was by Great Britian's King George V, who felt ex-Tsar Nicholas II should immediately be removed from Russia and out of the hands of the Provisional Govt., who had the ex-Tsar Nicholas II under a arrest after his abdication in March of 1917.

Since I'm not as familar with this plot / plots, perhaps someone who is, can give us more details.

AGRBear
 
undreamt of possibility

Marengo said:
About George V: I always find it curious that they usually present it either he invited the Romanovs and Britain would end up as a communist republic or he doesn't invite the Romanovs and it stays a monarchy. I think that is rather over simplifying the past, probably done to give Geoge's decision some credibility.
Click to expand...

Wasn't part of the problem also that no one dreamed that the family would be executed? Exiled surely, held for ransom likely but no one could have really forseen that they would all be shot. I think that is what Edward VIII had said at one point and that his father later regretted his actions. Of course that could just be Edward's spin on things or not understanding what all may have been planned or not at the time.
 
Of course nobody wants to believe that they'll be killed, but look at the position. Maybe it should have a disclaimer something along the lines in the job description: May include beheading if masses aren't happy.
If you're going to be king, you had best have a firm hold on your subjects, through entertainment (Rome-Colosseum), religion and structured rites (Egypt) , charisma (France-Louis 14) or fear (Transylvania, our old pal Vlad the Impaler), or "D": All of The Above.
Anybody who DIDN'T think they might be assassinated in a position of power is just plain naive.
 
Last edited:
Once they left Tobolosk, I think most knew there would be no return.
 
Doea anyone know the reations of the rulers when they where killed? I thought that I read that they kinda expected it of Nicky but not of the children and the Empress.
 
colynsmomma said:
Doea anyone know the reations of the rulers when they where killed? I thought that I read that they kinda expected it of Nicky but not of the children and the Empress.
Click to expand...

Sometime last year the leading German political magazine DER SPIEGEL published an article about the latest historical research of the involvement of emperor Wilhelm II: in the taking over of the Bolsheviks in Russia and it said that the emperor had financed Lenin and his people to get rid of the Tsar. He okayed the killing of his cousin, but agreed to take the empress and the children. They found no document claiming that the emperor felt guilty or was sad that his cousin had been killed.
 
Jo, if you can find that article, I'd love to take a gander at it! :flowers:
 
Kaiser Wilhlem II was greatly interested in saving the royal family members. It had been the Germans who had prevented the Bolsheviks from capturing the Romanovs in the Crimea and there was a plot to save Nicholas II and his family around the 16th of July 1918 from the Ipatiev House.

Yes, I did write the 16th of July 1918.

AGRBear
 
Last edited:
Jo of Palatine said:
Sometime last year the leading German political magazine DER SPIEGEL published an article about the latest historical research of the involvement of emperor Wilhelm II: in the taking over of the Bolsheviks in Russia and it said that the emperor had financed Lenin and his people to get rid of the Tsar. He okayed the killing of his cousin, but agreed to take the empress and the children. They found no document claiming that the emperor felt guilty or was sad that his cousin had been killed.
Click to expand...

Does your article mention the rescue plot to save Nicholas II around the date of 16th of July 1918?

AGRBear
 
The bolsheviks were making a plot with the American hotel to rescue the imperial family. But, it was a trap. It's just like on July 16th when Yurosky woke up the imperial family he told them they were under an attack and needed to go in a lower part of the house. It was actually a lie they made so they could kill them in the cellar room.
 
The fake letter the Bolsheviks sent to Nicholas II and his family is a different event than that of the plots being set up by the Germans, Whites, loyalists and others. So, I'm not sure how to respond to your post AnatasiaEvidence. Did you want turn this discussion towards the fake letter?

AGRBear
 
I think the topic here is plots. Bear, wasn't there something about a house built in Murmansk for the Imperial family? It's been so long since I read about this. I think the Americans helped fund it, am I remembering this correctly?
Lexi
 
Yes, please focus on the fake letter that the American hotel sent to the imperial family. It's been so long after I read about this it's a pity that the exact letter written couldn't be found. I hope you have some more information about the letter. I did see a letter in French that a officer written to Nicholas asking to rescue him and his family. If I find that letter I can translate it myself. If any of you find the letter and it's in French I could translate it for you.
 
Last edited:
Anna Virubova, a friend of Empress Alexandrovna's, supposedly wrote secret notes in French that were smuggled in (by nuns?). The notes asked for the Tsar to draw a map of the Ipatiev House and asked his advice for a secret escape in the middle of the night. Nicholas responded saying that he could only be rescued by force. The imperial family and their attendants (Dr. Botkin, Demidova, Trupp, Kharitonov) anxiously waited every night, fully clothed and ready to move quickly. Whether these notes were legitimate or orchestrated by the Bolsheviks is debatable. I reccomend The Kitchen Boy by Robert Alexander.
 
The Kitchen Boy is a good fictional book.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yeah, it uses a lot of facts that help you to understand what was happening.
 
Tsarina Anastasia said:
Anna Virubova, a friend of Empress Alexandrovna's, supposedly wrote secret notes in French that were smuggled in (by nuns?). The notes asked for the Tsar to draw a map of the Ipatiev House and asked his advice for a secret escape in the middle of the night. Nicholas responded saying that he could only be rescued by force. The imperial family and their attendants (Dr. Botkin, Demidova, Trupp, Kharitonov) anxiously waited every night, fully clothed and ready to move quickly. Whether these notes were legitimate or orchestrated by the Bolsheviks is debatable. I reccomend The Kitchen Boy by Robert Alexander.
Click to expand...

What I'll do is quote various books where the "The Mysterious Letters" are mentioned.

p. 512 Robert Massie's NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA:

>>Preston new nothing of attempts to resuce the Tsar, and Bykov found plots sesething on every corner.<<

Thomas H Preston was the British Consul in Ekaterinburg.
P. M. Bykov was the Chairman of theEkaterinburg Soviets.

The report of the letters are found in General M. K. Dieterichs [Diterikhs], Chief-of-Staff of Admiral Kolchak's White Army, who was very much a part of the investigation into the disapearance of Nicholas II and the others.

>>..The first letter was a message from an anonymous White offier to the Tsar:

"With God's help and your prudence we hope to achieve our object without running any risk. It is necessary to unfasten one of your widnows, so that you cn open it; please let me know exactly which. If the little Tsarevich cannot walk, matters will be very compliced, but we have weighed this up too, and I do not consider it an insurmountable obstacle. Let us know definitely wheter you need two men to carry him and whether any of you could undertake this work. Could not the little one be put to sleep for an hour or two with some drug? Let the doctor decide, only you must know the time exactly, beforehand. We will supply all that is necessary. Be sure that we shall unerstake nothing unless we are absolutely certain of success beforehand. We give you our solemn pledge of this before God, history and our own conscience." The letter was signed; "Officer."<<

p. 513 Massie's book continued:

>>The second letter quoted by Dieterichs is Nicholas's reply:
"The second wndow from the corner, looking out onto the square, has been kept open for two days already, even at night. The seveth and eight windows near the main entrances... are likewise kept open. The room is occupied by commandant and his assistants who constitue the inner guard at the present time. they number thirteen, armed with rifles, revolvers and grenades. No room but our has keys. The commandant and their assistants can enter our quarters whenever they please. The orderly officer makes the round of the house twice an hour at night and we hear his arms clattering under our windows. One machine gun stands on the balcony and one above it, for an emergency. Opposite our windows on the other side of the street is the [outside] guard in a little house. It consists of fity men... In any case, inform us when there is a chance and let us know whether we can take our people [servants]... From every post there is a bell to the commandant and a signal to the guard room and other places. If our people stay behind, can we be certain that nothing will happen to them?"

Nicholas II's diary
June 27

>>We spent an anxious night, and kept up our spirits, fullly dressed. All this was because a few days ago we received two letters, one after the other, in which we were told to get ready to be rescued by some devoted people, but days passed and nothing happened and the waiting and the uncertainty were very painful.<<

Quote p.513 Robert Massie's NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA.

LIFE ONG PASSION, NICHOLAS AND ALXANDRA THEIR OWN STORY collected by Maylunas and Mironenko tell us that on 14/27 June 1918 that Nicholas wrote the following in his diary:

>>Our dear Maria is 19 years old. The weather was still as tropical, 26 degrees in the shade and 24 in the rooms, almost impossible to bear! We spent and anxious night and stayed awake fully dresssed. This was because, a few days ago, we received two letters one after the other, which informed us that we shold prepare to be rescued by some people devoted to us! But the days passed and nothing happened, only the waiting and the uncertainty were torture.<<

LIFE ONG PASSION, NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA THEIR OWN STORY collected by Maylunas and Mironenko tell us that on 15/28 June 1918 what Alexandra wrote:

>>..[in part]...we hear the night sentry under our rooms being told quite particularly to watch every movement at our window -- they have become again most suspeicious, since our window is opened & don't all one to sit on the sill even now.<<
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Marengo said:
Another thing is that in this people usually focus on George V and not on the other European monarchs. Of course Britain was Russia's main ally and George and Nicky were cousins, but there was an entire network of crowned cousins, I usually wonder what they did? Or what was tried by the Russians themselves?
Click to expand...

I think that in most cases the other European monarchs in 1917 had even less power than George V. WWI was still going on, which definitely complicated things in Europe in general.


In the book Kong Olav Ser tilbake (King Olav looks back) by Kjell Arnljot Wig (1977), King Olav mentions (p. 52) something about the worries they had for their Russian relatives: "I also remember that they at home, by the end of the war, talked on how the Russian relatives fared, because we didn't know much. With the family in England there was contact throughout the war, through courier. But regarding the situation in Russia, one didn't know more than what the newspapers could tell on how the revolution went along, and there were many kinds of rumours.

I don't think there had been any warm connection, at all really. Our Russian relatives did live pretty isolated." (By that time the big Fredensborg gatherings, had dwindled to something akin to nothing.)

Given that he was 14 years old in 1917, he was obviously not privy to everything that went on in adult discussion, or in the councils of State, where attempts to negotiate might have been discussed.
 
THE FALL OF THE ROMAOVS by Steinberg and Khrustalev have a copy of the "officer of the Russian army" letter following p. 310 where the translation is given at the bottom of the page.

On this same page is this Soviet order copied:
>> "All prisoners' correspondence is to be examined by a person specially aurthorized for this purpose by the Presideum of the [Ural] Regional Soviets.<<

These letters of communication between "officer" and IF continued to p. 320.
---
NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA by Robert Massie tells us p. 512:

>>...Bykov said, notes were intercepted inside loaves of bread and bottles of milk, containing messages such as: "The hour of liberation is aproaching and the days of the usurpers are numbers," "The Slav armies are coming nearer and nearer Ekaberinburg.... The time has come for action," "Your friends sleep no longer."

Here is what we find in THE FATE OF THE ROMANOVS starting on p. 228:

>>As the Romanovs waited, the Ekaterinburg Bolsheviks planned their next move. Other, genuine letters apparently followed the disicovery of the first, conclealed, as Ekaterinburg Soviet member Paul Bykov recalled.<< Already noted in my post above.

>>Like the first confiscated latter, none of these survived, and only the forgery composed by the Cheka are known.<<

>>It was in 1964 that Isai Rodzinsky spoke at leanght of "the correspondence I carried on with Nicholas." In his account Rodzinsky clearly recalled the letters he wrote in French, "I remember the red ink with which they were written to the present day," the elderman said. Rodzinsky, according to his fellow Cheka member Kudrin, had been selected to copy the letters because "he had a good handwriting." Rodzinsky also left a telling comment: "We had to be able to show," he said, "evidence that a rescue had been arranged."

Let me repeat this: "We had to b e able to show evidence that a rescue had been arranged."

King and Wilson go on to say:

>>This "evidence," as both Rodzinsky and Kudrin later revealed, was never intended for public consumption, but for the eyes of the Central Executive Committe, to prove the exsistence of a monarchist plot to rescue the Romanovs.<<

So, the question in my mind is, who wanted this done? The Ural Soviets? The Moscow Soviets?

Did the Bolshsviks really intercept notes from the "officer" or was the officer part of the Soviet conpiracy to make it appear a rescue plot was occuring?

If there really was an "officer", who was he and what happened to him? And, why didn't they keep his notes found in milk bottles, bread ...?

AGRBear

HOUSE OF SPECIAL PURPOSE, AN INTIMATE PORTRAIT OF THE LAST DAYS OF THE RUSSIAN IMPERIAL FAMILY complied from the papers of their Enlgish Tutor Charles Sydney Gibbes by J. C. Trewin p. 110-111:

>>Toward the middle of June, in this hot and dragging summer, there were the usual cloudy hopes of a rescue attempt: They stayed cloudy; the anxious monarchist never found a workable plan. Now the end was coming indeed. Avadeiev and his guards, so it was rumoured, had been growing too lenient; they were replaced by men of the Secret Police...<<

What Gibbes actually wrote is not copied to this book. Does anyone have what he wrote?

AGRBear
 
Last edited by a moderator:
No, actually an officer sent the Tsar and his family a rescue note in French. Alexandra wrote only in English at the time in Yakeringburg. It was her main langauge she knew fluently.
 
AnastasiaEvidence said:
No, actually an officer sent the Tsar and his family a rescue note in French. Alexandra wrote only in English at the time in Yakeringburg. It was her main langauge she knew fluently.
Click to expand...

Source please?
 
THE FALL OF THE ROMANOVS p. 310
>>137
Letter from an "officer of the Russian army" to the imperial family, (19 or 20 June 1918.
Original in French.<<

>>Friends are no longer sleeping and hope that the hour so long awaited has come. The revolt of the Czechoslovaks threatens the Bolsheviks every more seriously. << Jumping down a few lines the letter goes on to say:
>>Be ready at every hour, day and night. Make a drawing of your two three bedrooms [showing] the position of the furniture, the beds. Write the hour that you all go to bed [in margin: 11:30]. Answer with a few words... You must give your answer in writing to the same soldier who transmits this note to you, but do not say a single word.

From somone who is ready to die for you,
Officer of the Russian Army<<

The foot note of the authors, Steinberg and Khrustalev, adds to this story p. 315:

>>1. It is now widely believed that this letter and the following from an "officer"... were part of a plan by local authorities to engineer the imperial family's "escape" in order either to executed them while they were trying to flee or to create a pretext for execution. In the 1960s, a former member of the Ural Cheka, I. Rodzinsky, testified that Pyotr Voikov, a gradudate of the University of Geneva and a member of the Ural Regional Soviet Executive Committe, drafted the letters, which Rodzinsky then copied.

AGRBear
 
The Danish book Zarmoder blandt Zarmordere: Kejserinde Dagmar og Danmark 1917-1928 by Bent Jensen, mentions several attempts by the Danish royal family, and the Danish government, to get a diplomatic solution to get the Czar and his family out of Russia. The book also mentions that the Danish government contacted the Germans to ask for help, and were denied twice. The Danish envoy in Russia, Harald Scavenius, according to the book, worked hard to try to get things solved.

One tack the Danish allegedly tried were to point out according to the book, was that if the Russians did not want the Dowager Czarina and her family to have Russian titles, and the titles were no longer in effect, then the title Princess of Denmark was still valid for Marie/Dagmar, and thus she [and her family] should be sent to Denmark .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Blog Real
Other Royal Pantheons of Spain (of the monarchs of Asturias, Leon, Castile, Aragon, Navarre and Others)
Replies
4
Views
865
An Ard Ri
An Ard Ri
Blog Real
Ludwig III of Bavaria (1845-1921) and Queen Maria Theresa of Austria-Este (1849–1919)
Replies
4
Views
1K
CyrilVladisla
CyrilVladisla
Y
"A Royal Life" by HRH The Duke of Kent and Hugo Vickers (2022)
Replies
2
Views
3K
Lady Daly
Lady Daly
T
Complete List of Monarchs and Legitimate Pretenders of the Kingdom of Jerusalem
Replies
4
Views
4K
Troy Thompson
T
NotAPretender
Could Nicholas II have changed the Imperial Succession?
4 5 6
Replies
156
Views
27K
ladyladydiana
ladyladydiana

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom