Remembrance Day Services 1: 2003-2021

[JR76]

To add to all the great information and reasons other members have posted - Rememberance Day is pretty close to November 9th - a rather complex date for Germany, so I think for many it wouldn't feel appropriate to focus on one aspect of that date (eg remembering the end of a war) without adressing the others.
November 9th is also known as the "Schicksalstag der Deutschen" (day of fate:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_9_in_German_history) because many crucial events happened on this day - terrible and great ones. The most important ones would certainly be the proclamation of the republic in 1918, the Novemberprogrom in 1938 and the fall of the Wall in 1989. The date of the fall of the Wall would have been the logical date for the national day, but because of the terrible associations of that date (especially the beginning of the Novemberprogroms), it was never seriously considered (and the rather meaningless October 3th was choosen). (If you ask me, November 9th would make a great national day. Not one to celebrate, but one to learn and think and remember. )

In Sweden the media has focused more on the 80th anniversary of the Kristallnacht and the far right demonstrations in Poland than on the end of WWI.
Although Sweden remained neutral (for real in this war) the country was still much affected by the war so it's a bit sad that it didn't get more attention.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I’m not arguing either way whether a member of BRF or Theresa May should’ve gone to France. But for those critical of what happened in France and bringing up Tim Laurence’s comments, isn’t Britain inviting the German President violating the same Gentlemen’s agreement?

Perhaps Germany is the exemption, seeing as they don't seem to mark it as other countries do. Macron didn't just invite one, he invited them all.
I did feel, personally, a little aggrieved that Justin chose to attend the one in Paris. I assume as per the agreement he was not invited to the UK. King Felipe was in attendance in France on Sunday and Spain was neutral in WW1.


I've also just seen that the International Governance Forum is being hosted in Paris from 12th-14th November. It has been attended by at least Justin if not other foreign leaders, so this may also have something to do with the invites this weekend.

 

[Andy T]

A couple of thoughts about the various events of the last few days.

I think the British Royal Family got it right by deciding to attend the centenary of 11/11/1918 en masse in London and then 'sending' an HRH in each of the four home nations.



It was wonderful to see the German President lay a wreath at the cenotaph.



I have never felt it to be entirely right that Germany has been singled out by the Allied Powers for its role in World War I and has entered the general consciousness as being THE enemy. I suppose it's because it was the most powerful nation in the bloc and the one which had a front with all the 'biggest' Allies (France, England, the US and Russia). Nevertheless, Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire and Bulgaria also fought.



For Monarchists, 1917-8 marks the downfall of the Russian, Ottoman, Austrian (& Hungarian), Prussian, Bavarian, Saxon, Wurttemberg, and Montenegrin monarchies. As we know, events over the next 30 years showed that the removal of these monarchies did nothing to prevent conflict and may, in some (most?) cases, have made things a lot worse.



How nice it would have been to see Prince Georg Friedrich of Prussia, Archduke Karl and King Simeon II alongside Queen Elizabeth II, King Philippe, Crown prince Alexander II of Serbia, Prince Vittorio Emanuele and Grand Duchess Maria, amongst others, in a 'reconciliation' of cousins and an acknowledgement of the sacrifices of all those who died and/or killed, starved or succumbed to disease in those years of butchery.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Even though HM is also the Queen of Canada, perhaps Justin Trudeau attended the French service due to the French-speaking connections with Canada? Just a thought.
I'm pleased that the German President and his wife were invited in an attempt to restore any previous tension between Germany and the UK.

 

[Pranter]

LaRae - here in Bavaria we have next sunday in close to every village commemoration walks, first to church and then to the memorials. Often salut is being shot with pistols prepared for that - we call it "Böllerschüsse". A bit like fireworks, but without the sparkles, only the sound. It doesn't happen in the big cities very often, because it's only in the villages that people are related to the late soldiers and still feel they have to honour them. Our army was thoroughly dishonoured in the last war and so we don't feel as a nation that we have to mourn much, but of course when you lost a relative, you want to honour them, because they didn't go there because they loved being part of slaughter, but had to. Those who went there because they wanted to do cruel, inhuman things, so often survived, fled, changed their names or crawled back home to to being accused. Those "normally" are not honoured then. But there still is this "ugly smell" to it in Germany, which makes that a problematic thing.

I totally understand. German Americans in the 40's and 50's (my mother in law was half German, from Barvaria, and my dad's family was mostly German) refused to speak German to their children or teach them the language. Which of course was a real shame but totally understandable.

It would be hard as a country to recognize the day due to the role the military played and yet all the loved ones lost and as you say, many forced (even very young boys) to serve. I'm not sure a country ever really recovers from this...maybe 100 more years.


Our son is in SW Germany near the Belgium/French/Lux border. I'll have to ask him if anything goes on next Sunday in that area...he lives in a small village.



LaRae

 

[wyevale]

How nice it would have been to see Prince Georg Friedrich of Prussia, Archduke Karl

Indeed.. as descendants and heirs to the thrones with which we fought 1914-18, their presence would have been far more meaningful than the President of a 'successor' polity, without connection to the war itself.

 

[MARG]

I was initially surprised in a way that no one high profile represented the UK but I do feel its important to place the emphasis on memorials at home, it would have been seen as a snub to those at home if the Queen, Charles or William attended the French events over the London ones, likewise I suspect the plans for Andrew, Anne and Edward to attend events in each of the home nations would have been in place and taken importance over events in France.
Also bear in mind, in the UK Remembrance Day takes in to account ALL those who have died in conflict, not just those in WW1.

Interesting comments from Sir Tim Laurence about the "gentleman's agreement" and I tend to agree with its sentiments personally.Here is an extract

How on earth should one do it? How should the centenary of the end of a war be marked? Not just any war — the Great War. A war which involved almost every country and resulted in millions of deaths. As we approach the 100th eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month, the answer is that we will mark its end in many different ways. This year 11 November falls on a Sunday, so the main remembrance events must all happen on one day. A gentleman’s agreement in Europe had been that each nation would mark it in their own way on their own soil. However President Macron has invited his fellow leaders to join him in Paris. Awkward. Does one snub one’s own country or the French? No doubt elegant solutions will be found.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/11...-gentlemans-agreement-for-remembrance-sunday/

I think the ad hoc "Peace" meeting was what drove the elevation of France's international guest list. Since they spent more time moving names around the dinner table to avoid enclaves shows that now was not the time.

I’m not arguing either way whether a member of BRF or Theresa May should’ve gone to France. But for those critical of what happened in France and bringing up Tim Laurence’s comments, isn’t Britain inviting the German President violating the same Gentlemen’s agreement?

Even though HM is also the Queen of Canada, perhaps Justin Trudeau attended the French service due to the French-speaking connections with Canada? Just a thought.
I'm pleased that the German President and his wife were invited in an attempt to restore any previous tension between Germany and the UK.

This outward sign of an actual reality is an overt demonstration of Reconciliation.

What does both surprise and even shock me is the number of people who have referred to the 100th Anniversary of the end of WWI as a celebration? It is not! It is, just like every 11th of November, a commemoration and a remembrance.

In Australia and New Zealand, we mark that tremendous loss on ANZAC Day.

 

[Lumutqueen]

What does both surprise and even shock me is the number of people who have referred to the 100th Anniversary of the end of WWI as a celebration? It is not! It is, just like every 11th of November, a commemoration and a remembrance.

See this is something that interested me as yesterday at the evening event an historian remarked that we mark this day with remembrance, but we often dismiss the fact that this was a victory. It was a war that was won.

I feel if this wasn’t a part of Remembrance, we would have included Germany in ceremonies long ago. Personally there’s a reason Germany doesn’t remember their loss so outwardly as we do, because they lost.

This however, I don’t believe, is the thread for this discussion.

 

[wartenberg7]

Indeed.. as descendants and heirs to the thrones with which we fought 1914-18, their presence would have been far more meaningful than the President of a 'successor' polity, without connection to the war itself.

I think if the Prince of Prussia had been invited as official representative to take part in these commemorations, there would have been a storm of outrage breaking out in the german media and press. This would find never an acceptance within the broader german public. I also believe the same, if not even worse, would happen, if a descendant of the House of Habsburg would have been invited as the Austrians seem to have an ever tense relationship with their former imperial Dynasty...!
No, the presence of a representative of the current ruling class was inevitable, no matter how sorry for Royalists and Monarchists, I´m afraid.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

I think if the Prince of Prussia had been invited as official representative to take part in these commemorations, there would have been a storm of outrage breaking out in the german media and press. This would find never an acceptance within the broader german public. I also believe the same, if not even worse, would happen, if a descendant of the House of Habsburg would have been invited as the Austrians seem to have an ever tense relationship with their former imperial Dynasty...!
No, the presence of a representative of the current ruling class was inevitable, no matter how sorry for Royalists and Monarchists, I´m afraid.

Whilst, as a royalist, it'd have been lovely for Prince Georg Friedrich and Princess Sophie to attend the Remembrance Service (the House of Hohenzollern are related distantly to the BRF too, aren't the Prince and Princess of Prussia in line to the very extended British throne?) though I agree about the reception in Germany - especially with the President in attendance. IIRC none of the German RF's titles are recognised in Germany (however they are recognised in reigning monarchies).

 

[loonytick]

What does both surprise and even shock me is the number of people who have referred to the 100th Anniversary of the end of WWI as a celebration? It is not! It is, just like every 11th of November, a commemoration and a remembrance.

In Australia and New Zealand, we mark that tremendous loss on ANZAC Day.

The annual commemorations of Remembrance Day, Memorial Day, ANZAC Day, etc. are purely solemn, remembrance of the lost; so are the milestone anniversaries of battles. But this Sunday was additionally a milestone celebration of a joyful anniversary. The restoration of peace and the end of conflict is a very happy thing. On a day like that it is quite appropriate to make space for celebratory services, such as the one in Westminster Abbey for which the queen shed the black attire that had been so appropriate for the mournful wreath-laying and instead wore a vibrant purple. The flowers placed around the memorial plaque on the floor very specifically weren’t poppies to remember the loss of the military dead but cheerful mixed arrangements as if to say to them “you did not sacrifice in vain, the battle did end and peace was achieved at last.” That’s a happy thing, if still serious.

 

[Princess Larisa]

Court Circular 10th November:
The Queen, Patron, was present this evening at the Royal British Legion Festival of Remembrance at the Royal Albert Hall.

The Prince of Wales and The Duchess of Cornwall, The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, The Duke and Duchess of Sussex, The Duke of York, The Earl and Countess of Wessex, The Princess Royal and Vice Admiral Sir Tim Laurence, The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester, The Duke of Kent and Prince and Princess Michael of Kent were present.

Court Circular 11th November:
The Queen was present this morning during the Ceremony at the Cenotaph on the occasion of Remembrance Day.

The President of the Federal Republic of Germany and Mrs Elke Büdenbender were also present.

A wreath was laid on behalf of The Queen by The Prince of Wales.

A wreath was laid by The President of the Federal Republic of Germany.

A wreath was laid on behalf of The Duke of Edinburgh by Captain Katherine Coulthard.

A wreath was laid by The Prince of Wales.

Wreaths were also laid by The Duke of Cambridge, The Duke of Sussex, The Duke of York, The Earl of Wessex, The Princess Royal, The Duke of Kent and Prince Michael of Kent.

The Duchess of Cornwall, The Duchess of Cambridge, The Duchess of Sussex, The Countess of Wessex and Vice Admiral Sir Tim Laurence were present during the Ceremony.

The Princess Royal afterwards took the salute at the March Past of Ex-Servicemen and Civilian Organisations on Horse Guards Parade, London SW1.

The Queen this evening attended a Service to mark the Centenary of the Signing of the Armistice at Westminster Abbey, London SW1, and was received at the Great West Gate by the Dean (the Very Reverend Dr John Hall) and, at the Great West Door, by the Chapter and the Archbishop of Canterbury.

The President of the Federal Republic of Germany and Mrs Elke Büdenbender were present.

Her Majesty and His Excellency laid fresh flowers at the Tomb of the Unknown Warrior.

At the conclusion of the Service, The Queen bade farewell to The President of the Federal Republic of Germany and Mrs Elke Büdenbender at the Great West Door.

The Prince of Wales and The Duchess of Cornwall, The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, The Duke and Duchess of Sussex, The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester, The Duke of Kent and Prince Michael of Kent were present at the Service.

Court Circular 11th November:
The Prince of Wales, Colonel, Welsh Guards, this afternoon attended a Reception at Wellington Barracks, Birdcage Walk, London SW1.

His Royal Highness, Colonel, Welsh Guards, afterwards attended a Service of Remembrance in the Guards Chapel, Wellington Barracks, and subsequently laid a wreath at the Guards Memorial, Horse Guards Parade.

The Duke of York this afternoon attended a Service commemorating the Centenary of the End of the First World War in St Anne’s Cathedral, Donegall Street, Belfast, and was received by Her Majesty’s Lord-Lieutenant of the County Borough of Belfast (Mrs Fionnuala-Jay O’Boyle).

The Earl and Countess of Wessex this afternoon attended the Welsh National Service of Thanksgiving to mark the Centenary of the End of the First World War at Llandaff Cathedral, Cardiff, and were received by Her Majesty’s Lord-Lieutenant of South Glamorgan (Mrs Morfudd Meredith).

The Princess Royal, accompanied by Vice Admiral Sir Tim Laurence, this afternoon attended the Scotland Commemorative Service for the Centenary of the First Armistice in Glasgow Cathedral, followed by a Reception at St Mungo Museum of Religious Life and Art, 2 Castle Street, Glasgow, and was received by Her Majesty’s Lord-Lieutenant of the City of Glasgow (Councillor Eva Bolander, the Rt Hon the Lord Provost).

The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester this morning attended a Service to mark the Centenary of the Signing of the Armistice at the National Memorial Arboretum, Croxall Road, Alrewas, and were received by Her Majesty’s Lord-Lieutenant of Staffordshire (Mr Ian Dudson), and afterwards His Royal Highness took the Salute at the Armistice Day Parade.

 

[eya]

Buckingham Palace announces royal attendance for events to mark Remembrance Day.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1191371801345085442

 

[Dman]

The Royal Family’s Remembrance Schedule 2019:
Their Royal Highnesses The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Duchess of Cornwall will attend the Field of Remembrance at Westminster Abbey Thursday, 7th November-

https://twitter.com/x/status/1191370938690002945

On Saturday Evening- November 9th-
The Queen, The Prince of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, The Duke and Duchess of Sussex, The Earl and Countess of Wessex, The Duke of York, The Princess Royal and other members of the royal family will attend the Festival of Remembrance at The Royal Albert Hall-

https://twitter.com/x/status/1191371097603751937

Sunday- November 10th-
The same members of the royal family will attend Remembrance Sunday Service at The Cenotaph-

https://twitter.com/x/status/1191371097603751937

 

[Fijiro]

Looks like it is going to be a somber and busy weekend for the Royal Family.

Remembrance days are very important, always; we should never forget.
.

 

[Durham]

Looks like it is going to be a somber and busy weekend for the Royal Family.

Remembrance days are very important, always; we should never forget.
.

Yes indeed.

It saddens me that HM no longer lays a wreath at the cenotaph. I understand the reasons of course but I l always felt that this was her most important public duty.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The Remembrance day Concert and service are among my favourite royal highlights,the BRF excel at the type events.

 

[Dman]

Tonight:
The Royal British Legion Festival of Remembrance 2019: BBC One 9pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000b9b2

The Queen and senior members of the royal family will be in attendance.

Breaking News Update:
The Duchess of Cornwall will be in attendance tonight-

https://twitter.com/x/status/1193181972866248704

Thank goodness she’s well enough to attend.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Good to hear that The Duchess of Cornwall is well enough to attend.

 

[tommy100]

I suspect Camilla was determined to attend this and Sunday, hence cancelling engagements earlier in the week.

 

[Ista]

I suspect Camilla was determined to attend this and Sunday, hence cancelling engagements earlier in the week.

I agree. If she had missed the weekend's engagements, that would have been truly alarming, so I'm happy to hear that she is well enough to attend these very important events.

 

[Durham]

I agree. If she had missed the weekend's engagements, that would have been truly alarming, so I'm happy to hear that she is well enough to attend these very important events.

Yes indeed, it's good to hear that she can attend. I'm sure she would try her very best to be there considering the unimaginable loss that befell her own family in WW1.

 

[iceflower]

Here's a first gallery:


** gettyimages: GBR: The Queen And Members Of The Royal Family Attend The Annual Royal British Legion Festival Of Remembrance **


** dm article: Meghan Markle and Prince Harry join Prince William and Kate Middleton for Royal British Legion Festival of Remembrance ..**

 

[Madame Verseau]

The pictures were interesting. Ladies were in a mix of black and dark blue.

 

[Somebody]

Not sure what was going on with Sophie. She looked absent (in mind).

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Great to see everyone there tonight and nice that Camilla made it despite the fact she has recently been ill - she did still look rather unwell, but it was good that she attended and I'm sure she's been given the all clear from the doctors. (We can be reassured that any royal who falls ill is under the best of care!) It would seem that Andrew has struck up a friendship with the PM... still not choosing friends wisely I see

Bit annoyed at how the Daily Fail kept on mentioning that documentary more so than the event itself in their articles, but I expect no less from them. In one article there was only a chunk of information about tonight (even though the headline was about the service) and most of the article focused on Harry and Meghan in their recent documentary. It's a shame because they have lovely photos of the event.

 

[suztav]

I think all the royal ladies look lovely. I especially loved Sophie's hair and Catherine's headband. I did like Meghan's dress, but I thought it made her look pregnant. JMHO

 

[O-H Anglophile]

It would seem that Andrew has struck up a friendship with the PM... still not choosing friends wisely I see

Andrew sitting next to Boris does not mean they are friends--I believe they have assigned seats for this event.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Andrew sitting next to Boris does not mean they are friends--I believe they have assigned seats for this event.

I thought my usage of smilies made it clear I was joking. I knew people would try to correct me or criticise me if I didn’t do so otherwise!

 

[tommy100]

They all seem to be sitting pretty where they usually do.

I do love seeing all (or certainly a good majority) of the RF turning out for this and at the Cenotaph tomorrow.