Questions about Future Queens, Dowagers and Surviving Spouses

[Trubie]

I was thinking of this when I asked. It would seem like a former queen would need a lot of security. Also, I know there's certain protcols and tradions. Would it go against that if she lived with nonroyal family? As you said, I suppose they could always live with her.

 

[Zonk]

Who would live with her? Her children and grandchildren? I think not.

William, Kate and Harry will also most likely not live with Camilla if something happens to Charles.

I agree with HM Catherine that if something happens to Charles you will gradually see less and less of Camilla. Certain events like the Trooping of the Colour maybe Ascot and a couple of patronages that mean something to her. But thats about it. And honestly, I don't think she will be bothered to much from the public. Not a slight against her or her perceived popularity or unpopularity. I just think that there will be a big fuss and than people will let her live out her days in relative peace.

 

[NoorMeansLight]

Thank you all for clarifying - these future titles of the spouses always confused me!
MARG has a very good point. Security will matter a lot from now on.

 

[muriel]

I agree, as pointed out above, a dowager Camilla will retire to a relatively quiet life in the country, possibly at Ray Mill House. Her health permitting, she will probably carry out some public engagements, and maintain some patronages. She will maintain offices in London, and probably a small residence in London as well.

 

[Iluvbertie]

A lot will depend on when she becomes a widow - if she is simply the widow of the Prince of Wales then yes I can see her retiring but if she is the widow of the King the situation will be different and I would expect her to have a home in London appropriate to that position and to appear regularly at royal events and to continue with some royal duties.

She won't live with William and Catherine but she will be included in royal events due to her position as the widow of Charles.

 

[Gretijean]

What will happen to The Duchess of Cornwall if Charles dies?

What would happen to the Duchess of Cornwall if Prince Charles died? Would she still be considered a royal family member? Would she continue to live in Charles' apartments? Would she have any royal responsibilities?

 

[Iluvbertie]

What would happen to the Duchess of Cornwall if Prince Charles died? Would she still be considered a royal family member? Would she continue to live in Charles' apartments? Would she have any royal responsibilities?

She will remain a member of the RF just as other widows have e.g. The Queen Mum didn't cease to be a member of the RF when she was widowed.

Where she would live would depend on Charles' will and her own desires e.g. if Charles left her the right to live at Highgrove then I am sure that his family would honour that wish but she mightn't wish to live there.

As for CH I don't think she would continue to live there as I would expect William to move in there but would expect a London apartment to be made available to Camilla - either at BP or KP.

I would imagine that she would continue with her patronages but she would be sidelined as a mainline royal up to a point but she would be the widow of the father of the future king and heir of the present monarch - she simply couldn't be ignored but she may wish to take the opportunity to say 'I am retiring from public life' but...she would still be getting security due to her position.

 

[ldmemail]

The title was not created for the Queen mother. Queen Alexandra and Queen Mary both held the title Queen Mother.

From a publication I had dating from 1953 Queen Mary was listed as HM Queen Mary the Queen Dowager.

It then went on to talk about HM Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother.

I have never seen it commented anywhere that Their Late Majesties Queens Alexandra and Mary ever called anything else other than the Queen or Queen A or M after their husbands' demise.

 

[yvr girl]

They were both Queen Mothers, but they were not called as such. It would have been confusing for the Queen Mum to have been called Queen Elizabeth since her daughter the Queen has the same first name.

 

[wbenson]

I have a book from around 1950 that periodically refers to Queen Mary as the Queen Mother, but it uses "Queen Mary" more.

 

[Warren]

During the reign of Edward VIII Queen Mary was still referred to as Queen Mary and not as Queen Dowager as the King was a bachelor.
Of course that situation changed with the Abdication but most references to her appear to have remained as 'Queen Mary'.

I've recently been given an Illustrated London News dated 16 February 1952, titled "Special Number - The Death of King George VI". Throughout, Queen Mary is referred to as "Queen Mary", the widowed Queen Elizabeth even at that very early stage is invariably "the Queen Mother" and Elizabeth II is simply "the Queen" with the occasional more formal "Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth".

In short, neither of the widowed Queens was keen on the 'Queen Dowager' moniker while the common use of 'Queen Mother' really came into its own with...the Queen Mother.

 

[Anna Catherine]

How involved have past dowagers such as Alexandra, Mary, and Elizabeth been in the Royal family and with patronages, charities, and royal events? I don't see it as a necessity for them to have to carry out duties really especially depending on age even if some former queens have done so. I think it's fair to allow them retirement.

 

[Iluvbertie]

All three continued with their patronages etc after their widowhood with the Queen Mum being the most obvious still doing royal duties well into her 90s.

 

[Kataryn]

In case Charles dies before Camilla, I believe he will leave her very comfortably off as he has amassed quite a personal fortune over the years, so can provide for her in the style he has made her acustomed to as his wife. I say this because I don't think Camilla personally needs that luxurious life she lives due to her husband's wishes and their position in life.

Probably she will acquire a suitable residence in London which she will maybe share with her son and his family. As Tom Parker Bowles is a scion of the Parker of Macclesfield-family, I guess it won't take long till the queen or the new king will create him a Knight Commander of the Royal Victorian Order for his services for Camilla - thus creating him "Sir Thomas" Parker Bowles. Which would be entirely suitable for the son of a Royal Lady who takes care of her in service for the souverain.

I personally can see Camilla being as interested in and charming with Charles' grandchildren as she is with her own, thus she probably will become the Royal "Granny" - a somewhat retired and no more really prominent Royal personality, but still present and upholding an image as the kind and loving Dowager of the RF.

 

[Osipi]

In case Charles dies before Camilla, I believe he will leave her very comfortably off as he has amassed quite a personal fortune over the years, so can provide for her in the style he has made her acustomed to as his wife. I say this because I don't think Camilla personally needs that luxurious life she lives due to her husband's wishes and their position in life.

Probably she will acquire a suitable residence in London which she will maybe share with her son and his family. As Tom Parker Bowles is a scion of the Parker of Macclesfield-family, I guess it won't take long till the queen or the new king will create him a Knight Commander of the Royal Victorian Order for his services for Camilla - thus creating him "Sir Thomas" Parker Bowles. Which would be entirely suitable for the son of a Royal Lady who takes care of her in service for the souverain.

I personally can see Camilla being as interested in and charming with Charles' grandchildren as she is with her own, thus she probably will become the Royal "Granny" - a somewhat retired and no more really prominent Royal personality, but still present and upholding an image as the kind and loving Dowager of the RF.

I really don't see Camilla's children ever being given titles though. Its along the same lines as Carole Middleton as the mother of a future Queen Consort be given a title. I don't think it will ever happen.

Can't remember where I read it but probably in the Charles and Camilla thread on their marriage that Camilla does like to bolt away to Ray Mill and get down and dirty with the grandchildren and play and make noise which is something that Charles isn't too fond of these days. As much as Charles is staid and proper, Camilla is the "lets make mud pies" type of gal. Oh yes.. she'd be a fantastic royal Granny for sure!

 

[Kataryn]

I really don't see Camilla's children ever being given titles though. Its along the same lines as Carole Middleton as the mother of a future Queen Consort be given a title. I don't think it will ever happen.

It's not a title actually but a Knighthood. It's in the personal discretion of the monarch to create a person a Knight or Dame Commander of the Royal Victorian Order as a thank you for personal services to the souverain. As "outer" mark of this position the person may call himself "Sir" or herself "Dame". It's not a peerage and its not inheritable, it's a sign that the person is a higher member of an order of Britain.

Of course William at one point could create Carole Middleton a Dame Commander RVO - thus she becomes Dame Carole. He won't create her a Baroness with the prefix "Lady" - that's for politicians.

 

[Zonk]

It's not a title actually but a Knighthood. It's in the personal discretion of the monarch to create a person a Knight or Dame Commander of the Royal Victorian Order as a thank you for personal services to the souverain. As "outer" mark of this position the person may call himself "Sir" or herself "Dame". It's not a peerage and its not inheritable, it's a sign that the person is a higher member of an order of Britain.

Of course William at one point could create Carole Middleton a Dame Commander RVO - thus she becomes Dame Carole. He won't create her a Baroness with the prefix "Lady" - that's for politicians.

I doubt that either Charles or William will do this unless either of them actually do something or achieve something worthwhile. Tom could of course, totally change the English way of thinking about food, making some unforseen contribution but just because he "supports" Camilla...I don't think so.

Most Dames from what I understand have made a contribution in the arts and sciences, etc.
For example, Dame Shirley Bassey in Music, Dame Judi Dench in arts (films and theatre), etc.

 

[Osipi]

I would imagine that if Camilla was widowed while Queen, she would have a pick of where she wanted to retire to. It would depend also on her age and if she was or was not to remain doing royal duties and engagements too. I don't think Camilla would disappear from royal family life just because Charles has passed on. QEQM resided at Clarence House but she also has the Castle of Mey.

From my own perspective of how I see Camilla, I think she would be most content though living at Ray Mill when she's not scheduled for engagements and in that case, she'd reside at Clarence House.

 

[vkrish]

don't think Camilla would disappear from royal family life just because Charles has passed on. QEQM resided at Clarence House but she also has the Castle of Mey.

There will absolutely be no similarity between the lifestyles of "Dowager Queen" Camilla and QETQM.
Camilla doesnt have an ounce of opulence or extravagance The QM had. Leave alone CH and Castle of May, if left to her would have happily had another dozen castles, hosting endless nice parties and lunches, leaving her daughter to break her head over the overdraft
Funny things aside, QM never thought she was 'out of scene', and considered her 'vocation' as important as the monarch herself. She greatly relished being in limelight and drinking in the public and media affection.So there was no question of her ever withdrawing from public life.
On the other hand, Camilla was always a simple woman, maintaining a low profile, all her motive seems to be just stand by Charles' side and make him happy. That itself is her 'calling', for the moment.
And once she is done with her job, I dont think she will be there in public eye.
Of course she will always have precedence and eminence immediately after King and Queen, but apart from reallyimportant weddings/jubilees/funerals, I dont see her in royal scene..

 

[Dman]

Most likely Camilla's official London residence will continue to be Clarence House and her country residence, Raymill House.

If Charles is King and passes on, that would make Camilla Queen Dowager & Queen Mother or Princess Dowager or Princess Mother. If she's able, Camilla will continue to carry out royal duties and be supportive of King William & Queen Catherine.

 

[Countessmeout]

I think it will depend strongly on if Charles dies as Prince of Wales or King.

If Charles is still POW, I think Camilla will likely retire to ReyMill or one of Charles' private homes, if he leaves their use to her. She may attend the rare royal event, but I'd not expect to see her often. I see her being involved in her charities still, she seems to have a real passion for them. But she will continue to fly under the radar with them.

If she is Dowager queen, I think it will be different. Camilla knows her place, and she has always been one for the limelight. She won't be the queen mother. I think she will attend more royal functions then she would have if she was dowager princess of wales. But she will not have the spotlight the queen mum did, as she is not will's mother. Since Will and Kate would be King and queen and not at Clarence house, I don't see an issue with her continuing to use it when she is in London for royal duties. But I could see her spending more time at her own home in the country, ecept when busy with her charities.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I think Camilla will continue to support the charities she has taken on - it is clear that she is committed to these charities and that she is happy to support them.

As for where she would live - I would expect a London place such as CH simply because she is currently there and William and Kate will have set up in KP so if Camilla were to become the widow of Charles before he becomes King than there would be no need to change residences. She will, of course keep Raymill but unlike the QM I don't expect her to have a home near Windsor such as Royal Lodge that the QM had. Camilla may also keep Birkhall in Scotland just because of the memories so that she could go there and remember the years with Charles.

If she becomes a widow after becoming Princess Consort I can see her moving back to CH when Wiliam has to move into BP.

Camilla will, of course, never be the Queen Mother as she won't be the mother of the next monarch (Diana would have held that title had the marriage worked).

 

[Countessmeout]

Most likely Camilla's official London residence will continue to be Clarence House and her country residence, Raymill House.

If Charles is King and passes on, that would make Camilla Queen Dowager & Queen Mother or Princess Dowager or Princess Mother. If she's able, Camilla will continue to carry out royal duties and be supportive of King William & Queen Catherine.

Queen Mother is reserved for a woman who not only was queen consort, but also whose son or daughter has taken the throne. Will is her stepson, so Camilla would not be titled queen mother, simplye dowager queen.

 

[NGalitzine]

Camilla would definitely be the "dowager" but she would never be either Queen Mother or Prncess Mother simply because she will not be the monarch mother. Her position would be the same as Queen Adelaides, widow of the previous monarch but not mother to the new monarch regardless of title.
I expect she would continue to support her various charities, and would need a residence/office in London in addition to Raymill.

 

[Dman]

Okay, so incase of Charles's passing before he becomes King, that would make Camilla HRH The Dowager Duchess of Cornwall?

Yeah, I don't see Camilla disappearing from public life but carrying on with her official duties although taking a backseat to Catherine.

 

[Artemisia]

Yes, if Charles predeceases his mother, Camilla will be The Dowager Duchess of Cornwall (or the Dowager Princess of Wales, or any of her other titles).
If Charles dies after becoming King, Camilla will make a transition from Her Majesty The Queen to Her Majesty Queen Camilla (the new Queen Consort will be The Queen). She will de facto be a Queen Dowager but the title isn't normally used (along with the Queen Mother or the Queen Consort).

 

[Ish]

Okay, so incase of Charles's passing before he becomes King, that would make Camilla HRH The Dowager Duchess of Cornwall?

Yeah, I don't see Camilla disappearing from public life but carrying on with her official duties although taking a backseat to Catherine.

Technically, yes, although I believe that the "Dowager" is only used when there is a new spouse holding the title "Duchess of Cornwall" (or whatever other title, for that matter). As there wouldn't be a new Duke of Cornwall for some time, it stands that Camilla could simply continue to be called the Duchess of Cornwall.

If Charles becomes King then the next Duke of Cornwall is William, and Catherine is the Duchess. However, if Charles doesn't become king then when he does the title Duke of Cornwall doesn't pass on, so there is no Duke and Camilla can remain simply the Duchess. The next time there will be a Duke under that scenario will be when William becomes king if his heir is a son (or in the unlikely event that William, Baby Cambrige, and Harry all die while HM still lives, in which case Andrew is the Duke). Even then, the Duke needs a wife in order for their to be a new Duchess, so Camilla doesn't necessarily have to be relegated into the Dowager territory.

 

[branchg]

I highly doubt Camilla would continue to reside at Clarence House if Charles died before becoming King. While she would be the widow of an heir to throne, she is not the mother of the future King and her future role would be much diminished with her husband's death.

More likely, she would return to private life with occasional charitable endeavors and very minimal public duties, which would probably be her strong desire. She would remain HRH The Duchess of Cornwall in style as a widow, unless William's first-born is a boy, at which point she would be styled Dowager Duchess since she would not be the wife of the new Duke once William became King.

 

[padams2359]

I think the DofCW will go out to the country and would be happy with an apt in KP for city visits. If PC death would precede her's.

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

She would remain HRH The Duchess of Cornwall in style as a widow, unless William's first-born is a boy, at which point she would be styled Dowager Duchess since she would not be the wife of the new Duke once William became King.

"Dowager" is only used when the new peer is married.

Dowager - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But she can also be styled as {Christian Name}, {title} of {place}.