Queen Victoria and Haemophilia

[jonnydep]

the discussion turned inside out and I apologize.

dear russophile.....your apology is accepted.
however i feel that i was as much to blame as yourself......0n reflection i should have perhaps mentioned my sources in my update on my post, as this may have avoided our missunderstanding !!
i wish to apologize too....

 

[pacomartin]

There is a page with the statistics and some lists of the descendants of Queen Victoria .
I tried to calculate how many descendants were diagnosed with hemophilia before Queen Victoria died. I think it was eight (although most outlived her). It certainly was enough to cause the elderly queen a great deal of distress. Ironically she was particularly concerned with good blood.

 

[pacomartin]

Quote

Does anybody know if there is present decendants og Queen Victoria who suffers from Hemophelia?
Betina

I am not aware of a present case, but some of them died as late as WW2. There is no way to predict how many males in any given family will be stricken with hemophilia, and as the gene can remain hidden for as many as six generations, some parents are baffled when told that their son is a victim of the disease. As Queen Victoria now has 7 generations of descendants (the oldest child in the 7th generation is [SIZE=-1]Felicitas von Reiche who was born in 1986, so an 8th generation should be along shortly). Since she has over one thousand descendants, and it may have skipped several generations, the disease may not be gone.[/SIZE]
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Genes can spontaneously mutate, which appears to be the case with either Victoria herself or her father, the Duke of Kent, who passed the X chromosome to her at conception. Although it is possible that she received it from an illegitimate father, it would mean that her mother took as a lover, a man actively suffering from hemophilia. In 1819 most of these men never lived to age of 21, and if they did they would be an unlikely choice for an illicit sexual partner. Besides Victoria did not have the disease herself.

 

[Russophile]

dear russophile.....your apology is accepted.

i wish to apologize too....

Well I feel warm and fuzzy, do you??

Anyway, pacomartin has raised some interesting questions that I don't have answers to. . . .very interesting!

 

[Grace Angel]

You're perfectly right, Vasillisos Markos; his fear of the KGB can explain his refusal to the test; what is a total nonsense is the fear to see proved that he was not of royal blood...

It didn't really matter if Olga's sons were of royal blood anyway since they weren't products of an equal marriage ( Olga's husband wasn't royal, nor noble), and thus had no inheiritence rights to anything, on their mother's or father's side. Had they been of an equal marriage, they wouldn't had had really strong rights to the Russian throne anyway, being the children of a daughter, not a son. It's not like there was any inheiritence issue involved.Olga's sons were defintely her sons though, I don't doubt. Tikon and Guri had lived with the aftermath of the Russian Revolution, and I think this made them more insecure and suspicious than they would otherwise have been. I think they were more insecure due to that.

 

[MAfan]

But maybe a reason exist: it is true that they couldn't inherit the throne or titles, but they were the heirs of their mother, and their mother was a daughter of Tzar Alexander III. This mean, better this would have meant, a lot of money.
Being Tikon and Guri the only children of Olga they were also her heirs; that made them able to inherit her money.

 

[Grace Angel]

That's true, I hadn't thought of that. It's rather off topic to this thread, but I don't think that anything regarding the parentage of Olga's sons should be read into her son's remarks. I think he was just paranoid as it was perhaps easy to be for someone who lost their birthright (sure, he would never have been a member of the IF, but he and his brothers as Olga's sons would have gotten a comfortable lifestyle and more than likely titles) before they were born. He saw anything as a threat to what he had as Olga's son, although it was much less than he would have likely had had the revolution not happened.

 

[jonnydep]

it would appear that some people may have grounds to believe that the grand duchess ogla was not the mother of tikhon and guri......or put it another why should tikhon think that people had this opinon of his and his brothers parentage......?

i cant help wondering if it was due to the circumstances of their births !!.
a, the grand duchess had given birth rather late in life to her sons (olga was aged 35 and 37 years old at the time of her sons birth). though this was the result of a second marriage.
b, there was no doctor present at the birth of tikhon.
c, guri was born in a peasants hut in nova minskaia.
d, both sons were born during the revolution, a time when the imperial family would try their upmost to prevent any personal wealth going over to the new state, then or sometime in the future etc

yes, i think you may agree as to why some people may have grounds to believe that both sons could well be "spurious children " of the grand duchess !!

i hasten to add ...this is purely conjecture on my part !!

 

[jonnydep]

It's rather off topic to this thread

yes i agree with you grace angel its quite true....... i had expected the posts concerning this topic,to be moved to some other thread concernig the russian royals.....

 

[pacomartin]

Plz try and start a new thread for a new topic. It makes it much harder to follow.

 

[Melisende]

Having scanned briefly over this rather lengthy topic - what struck me was the amount of mis-information about Haemophilia.

Speaking from experience, I can state the following:
* it is passed from mother to son
* daughter may be carriers - though not all daughters
* it is not passed from father to son
* it can appear in a family without a history - in fact over 75% of cases are from a mutated gene and not from a family history of the disease
* there is no cure and treatment is via intravenous infusion of blood or recombinant (engineered blood product) and the frequency of treatments depends upon the severity of the disease
* in the past, some symptoms have been mis-diagnosed as haemophilia (ie: frequent bruising)
* female can have a form of haemophilia (which is usually identified by severe amaemia, heavy menstrual cycle, and unexplained bruising - not identified with any other illness)
* considering the age in which Victoria family lived, haemophilia alone cannot be attributed to the death of all males at a young age (who may have had the disease)

There are many types of haemophilia and other bleeding disorders - and it could be a case of assuming who had what - considering the lack of knowledge about the disease at that time. We today can put a name to it and it's "offspring" - I rather think that it was an case of the unknown back then.

 

[MAfan]

* it is not passed from father to son

But it may be passed from father to daughter.

 

[redrose_2121]

I thought it could only be carried by females?

 

[Sister Morphine]

But it may be passed from father to daughter.

No it can't. Only females are carriers, meaning that a mother can pass it to a daughter or a son, but a father cannot. A child can only get the gene from their mother.

 

[Roderick]

I believe information shows that a haemophilic father can in fact pass the gene onto a daughter but not to a son.

 

[wbenson]

A hemophiliac father will always pass the gene to his daughter (and never to his son). It's possible for women to actually have the disease if they have a hemophiliac father and a mother who at least carried it. (And women who are carriers can have mild symptoms.)

 

[MAfan]

I was thinking to Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone: she was a carried of aemophilia, and passed it to her eldest son who died of this disease in 1928 after a car accident.
Considering that Alice's father, Prince Leopold, suffered and died of aemophilia too, I guess that he passed the disease to Alice.

 

[Pixilated]

This is bad disease,I remember reading about Crown Prince Alexei,very sad.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

I believe information shows that a haemophilic father can in fact pass the gene onto a daughter but not to a son.

That is what I have read also.

 

[persian85033]

I think girls get it if both of their parents have the hemophilia gene, so their father would have to have hemophilia. They would have two X chromosones with the hemophilia gene. It's more common in boys because as girls have two X chromosones, if they get the hemophilia gene from their mother, the other X chromosone from their father 'counters' it. As boys only have one X chromosone, then if it carries the gene, they get hemophilia. It can't be passed from father to son for that same reason. Their mother isn't a carrier, and they get the Y chromosone from their father, which does not carry the hemophilia gene.

 

[Melisende]

A hemophiliac father will always pass the gene to his daughter (and never to his son). It's possible for women to actually have the disease if they have a hemophiliac father and a mother who at least carried it. (And women who are carriers can have mild symptoms.)

In all the studies I have read and doctors consulted - this has never once been mentioned. Can you provide the source.

 

[Lumutqueen]

In all the studies I have read and doctors consulted - this has never once been mentioned. Can you provide the source.

If a male is afflicted with the disease and has children with a female who is not even a carrier, his daughters will be carriers of haemophilia. His sons, however, will not be affected with the disease. The disease is X-linked and the father cannot pass haemophilia through the Y chromosome. Males with the disorder are then no more likely to pass on the gene to their children than carrier females, though all daughters they sire will be carriers and all sons they father will not have haemophilia (unless the mother is a carrier).

 

[Russophile]

If a male is afflicted with the disease and has children with a female who is not even a carrier, his daughters will be carriers of haemophilia. His sons, however, will not be affected with the disease. The disease is X-linked and the father cannot pass haemophilia through the Y chromosome. Males with the disorder are then no more likely to pass on the gene to their children than carrier females, though all daughters they sire will be carriers and all sons they father will not have haemophilia (unless the mother is a carrier).

Actually, they can, though it is rare. Here's the article.
Haemophilia A (Factor VIII Deficiency) | Doctor | Patient UK

 

[Mariel]

Porphyria facts about QV's descendants: Her daughter Vicki, who married the German prince, and Vicki's Charlotte both have been DNA tested (their bones) and proven to have porphyria, the form being Variegate Porphyria. Porphyria of this type is not recessive, that is, once it is not in a line, it is gone. It is dominant, so that 50% of children get it on one parent's line, and if two parents have it, 75% (on average, of course). The only way a person can be thought to be a carrier (unlike hemophilia) is if that person has the gene but it is not triggered into disease, which happens frequently.

QV probably got the disease from her father, the Duke of Kent, whose father George III had it. She could have gotten it from her mother, who was a first cousin of the Duke of Kent, if that princess had it, but no one has researched that issue, to my knowledge.

Her descendant of Gloucester (brother of the present Duke) was definitely dx'd with it.
The book stating that QV had no descendants with porphyria has been proven false. One source, The Purple Secret, a book by a scientist associated with those who disinterred the graves of Vicki and Charlotte, on whose bones the DNA was tested. One point should be made concerning relatives of Vicki and Charlotte: they were courageous and servants of humanity to allow this, as porphyria needs to be treated (it can be) rather than hidden. Avoidance of triggers is the main way to go to achieve remission.

.

 

[Warren]

I understand the above post by Mariel1 was made in response to some earlier posts in this thread.
It has been copied over to the Porphyria in European Royalty thread where further discussion on the topic can be found.