Princess Madeleine, Chris O’Neill & their children moving to Sweden

[An Ard Ri]

The King and Queen must be very pleased to have Princess Madeleine and her family back in Sweden.

 

[maria-olivia]

I don't know !!. The Children hace to come back it they will keep their statut of Princes.
Chris will never stay in Sweden , he will be abroad to have more freedom for himself and his business.

 

[Stefan]

Carl Philip and Sofia work for the Royal House and Carl Philip owns the house they live in and pays all the costs of it.
Madeleine hasn't worked very much for the Royal House, has lived in Miami and still there has been a seven-room apartment at the Royal Stables for her and her family (empty for the most of time). She pays no rent of it and it has been renovated with SEK 12 million during the last ten years. The renovation was mostly paid by the National Property Board (Statens Fastighetsverk), Madeleine paid only a small part of the renovation. And now the press writes that their house in Miami has been sold with SEK 75 million. A lot of money for many Swedes and now the family move to Sweden and don't pay any rent for their apartment.
And if Madeleine and Chris move to a house, who pays it and who of the court staff needs a seven-room apartment at the Royal Stables?
So it is not so strange that Madeleine and Chris are seen as controversial people.

But the difference is that Carl Philip inherited his house from Prince Bertil, which is not the case for Princess Madeleine. Probably it would be different if he had not inherited and he would also live in one the Houses for which the King has the right of disposition

 

[Mbruno]

Good points, though I wonder how much that criticism of Patrick Sommerlath was present before the sexual scandal.



I understood DoM's comment to be following up your comment on payment for their (for now hypothetical) permanent residence:



Regarding the "breadwinner" comment, Chris O'Neill stated it in a 2015 interview to explain why the couple were emigrating from Sweden for the sake of his career:

Why don't you live in Sweden?​

- We would definitely stay in Sweden if it had gone with my job, but I have a job that requires I'm in London. Until now, I have had three to four flight per week in Europe, mostly to London. It doesn't work in the long run. At the end of New York time I commuted between London and New York. It wouldn't also worked in the long run. I had a while twelve days a month from New York to London. I and Madeleine have now taken the decision that we are going to stay in London so that I can do my work. I don't want to come home to a hotel room alone. I want to come home to my family and eat dinner together. Everything else is not important. It is I who am the breadwinner of the family. I must first and foremost think of our little family.​

The interview and the discussion of the negative reaction to his self-description in Sweden (where the social norm is for wives and husbands to jointly provide for the family) can be found here:

Princess Madeleine, Chris O'Neill and Family, General News 2: June 2015 - Sept 2017

Arms of Princess Madeleine Welcome to the General News of Princess Madeleine, Chris O'Neill, Princess Leonore and Prince Nicolas, Part 2 June 15, 2015 - September 21, 2017 The previous thread can be found here Please take a look at the TRF Community Rules & FAQs · Only pictures that...

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What seems to be problematic to me is that none of what Chris said in 2015 has changed in terms of why living in Sweden wouldn't work for him, unless he changes the focus of his business, which I don't think is the case unfortunately given the description of Belgravia Advisors AB. That must explain the cautious wording of the Court that the family will live in Sweden "for the time being".

I suppose it is a typical situation of Chris' and Madeleine's jobs requring that they both live in different places. I say "jobs" because being a Swedish working royal is also a job fo Madeleine and one that she had to give up when she married Chris and moved abroad. Besides being homesick, I think Madeleine also misses her "job" and wants to be back to the (part-time) royal life that she had as a bachelorette, which in turn requires being physically present in Sweden.

The good news for the Royal House is that, with Madeleine back, they will have potentially 5 healthy adult working royals in their 40s at their disposal, which means the aging King and Queen can slow down a bit. I mean, the King must still do what he is constitutionally obligated to do (state visits, opening of Parliament, accreditation of ambassadors, meetings of the Council of State and the Advisory Council on Foreign Affairs, audiences with the prime minister, presentation of orders and medals, etc.), but most of the non-state-related events in the royal calendar can be delegated to the younger working royals.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Princess Madeleine will be a wonderful support to the king and Royal Family upon her return to public duties.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

But the difference is that Carl Philip inherited his house from Prince Bertil, which is not the case for Princess Madeleine. Probably it would be different if he had not inherited and he would also live in one the Houses for which the King has the right of disposition

Didn't Prince Carl Philip (and Sofia Hellqvist, even before the couple were engaged) live in a house with the royal right of rent-free disposition before moving into Villa Solbacken, but with no public criticism of their living arrangements?

 

[LadyFinn]

Chris is a cosmopolitan, I imagine it will be too small minded for him in Sweden, plus the scrutiny. And not everybody likes the in-laws close by, especially this kind of in-laws. But if his job needs him to travel abroad frequently, good for him.

Good for Chris, that his friend and bestman Cedric Notz (who is also a cosmopolitan) has lived in Sweden already for eight years and can help him to settle down to life in Sweden.

 

[Queen Claude]

Didn't Prince Carl Philip (and Sofia Hellqvist, even before the couple were engaged) live in a house with the royal right of rent-free disposition before moving into Villa Solbacken, but with no public criticism of their living arrangements?

As far as I recall there was no measurable criticism of Carl Philip and Sofia's living arrangements. My recollection is that Carl Philip and Sofia lived in the residence that Carl Philip was granted as a single adult. When Sofia was pregnant, they moved in with Carl Gustaf and Sylvia and lived with them until they moved to Villa Solbacken.

My recollection is that Madeleine was granted a residence when she was a single adult. Then when she and Jonas were going to get married, either that residence was upgraded / expanded, or she was granted another, larger residence. When their engagement ended, Madeleine moved to New York and still had a residence in Sweden. Eventually she got with Chris, and somewhere along the way another expansion or move to a larger residence occurred.

ETA:
Tangential point, Carl Philip has several private homes.

 

[JR76]

Didn't Prince Carl Philip (and Sofia Hellqvist, even before the couple were engaged) live in a house with the royal right of rent-free disposition before moving into Villa Solbacken, but with no public criticism of their living arrangements?

Their first fellow home was a flat in the house on Sjötullsbacke on Djurgården and after that they moved into Sjöpaviljongen at Drottningholm which had previously been the home of Crown Princess Victoria and, if I remember it correctly, later became the home of their cousin Patrick Sommerlath and played an integral part of the alleged trafficking scandal involving him last year.

To my knowledge there hasn't been any controversies surrounding Carl Philip's living arrangements but then the royal right of disposal didn't become an issue until a few years ago.

 

[Queen Claude]

Their first fellow home was a flat in the house on Sjötullsbacke on Djurgården and after that they moved into Sjöpaviljongen at Drottningholm which had previously been the home of Crown Princess Victoria and, if I remember it correctly, later became the home of their cousin Patrick Sommerlath and played an integral part of the alleged trafficking scandal involving him last year.

To my knowledge there hasn't been any controversies surrounding Carl Philip's living arrangements but then the royal right of disposal didn't become an issue until a few years ago.

Thanks for this. So to correct my post above about Carl Philip and Sofia, they did not move in with Carl Gustaf and Silvia, they moved to a residence on the grounds of Drottningholm Palace.

 

[Frelinghighness]

I don’t see anything wrong with any of the Swedish working royals having an apartment in the capital for when they have to work there. All of the British working royals for example princess Anne they have apartments either BP or KP and the danish Royals seem to have the same thing for example princess Bendicte has it Copenhagen apartment

 

[Somebody]

They all live in or near the capital, so no need for additional apartments…

 

[Mbruno]

They all live in or near the capital, so no need for additional apartments…

But, right now, Madeleine and Chris don't have any apartment (or house) of their own, either in the capital or anywhere else in Sweden as far as I understand. So, until they buy or rent a property, they depend on the apartment at the Royal Mews, or on some other residence managed by the State Property Agency that may be assigned to them, to have a place to live.

I also wonder how that situation, if it persists for an extended period of time, might affect the family dynamics. As Tatiana Maria reminded us, Chris made a point in 2015 that he saw himself as the "breadwinner" of his nuclear family. Per Chris' own admission, however, Belgravia Advisors AB is unlikely to generate any substantial revenue until next year at least and the family is now living in Sweden in a rent-free "grace-and-favor" home under the King's right of disposal. So it looks that , at least in the short term, the family will depend on the Royal Court's financial support to maintain their living standards and Chris won't be the sole breadwinner, perhaps not even the primary breadwinner in the family.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

Out of curiosity, are there members here who could comment on the degree of adjustment that (affluent and with connections to Sweden) Americans like Chris O'Neill and his children might experience (I count the children as cultural Americans as they are unlikely to remember their early life in Sweden) after moving to Sweden? I am especially curious about the adjustment from American to Swedish schools, especially since the children, though bilingual, probably cannot read and write at grade level compared to Swedish-raised children.

In Stockholm that won’t be a big problem… Stockholm is a cosmopolitan city with lots of companies where non-swedish people works, and has plenty of schools where bilingual children goes, or schools that actively trains children to be bilingual from early on…

Stockholm has many inhabitants from all corners of the world in all classes of the society, so i don’t think the adjustment-thing will be a big issue.

Outside of Stockholm however would be another thing - but i don’t think that will be a problem for them as i cannot imagine either Madeleine or Chris would like to live far away from the city…

 

[FigTree]

I presume that likr with all working royals, and lets face it family members too, that they don’t and won’t pay rent. If Madeleine returns to royal engagements that is her job and her home is part of the payment for that.

I do need clarification though. Is it a seven room apartment, as in in total: kitchen, bathroom, living room and presumably 4 bedrooms. Which really for a family of that size is small. Most average families of that size would have around 10 rooms. Five up, five down. Or a seven bedroom home? Hugh difference. One too small for them and one probably too large to be honest.

 

[JR76]

I presume that likr with all working royals, and lets face it family members too, that they don’t and won’t pay rent. If Madeleine returns to royal engagements that is her job and her home is part of the payment for that.

I do need clarification though. Is it a seven room apartment, as in in total: kitchen, bathroom, living room and presumably 4 bedrooms. Which really for a family of that size is small. Most average families of that size would have around 10 rooms. Five up, five down. Or a seven bedroom home? Hugh difference. One too small for them and one probably too large to be honest

In Sweden you don't count kitchen, utility rooms and bathrooms as rooms. So the flat has seven bedrooms and living rooms plus other living areas.

 

[FigTree]

Well then plenty big for them.

 

[tommy100]

So perhaps 5 bedrooms- one each and one for guest/nanny and two living rooms.

 

[FigTree]

You would probably want a living room, playroom and a dining room too unless Kitchen massive. Also in this age a study.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I presume that likr with all working royals, and lets face it family members too, that they don’t and won’t pay rent. If Madeleine returns to royal engagements that is her job and her home is part of the payment for that.

This would be ok in my understanding too but its not what Chris wants, at least not in 2015, being kept by the inlaws.

 

[Silverpot]

I presume that likr with all working royals, and lets face it family members too, that they don’t and won’t pay rent. If Madeleine returns to royal engagements that is her job and her home is part of the payment for that.

Madeleine never had any official royal engagements. She has a few patronages and maybe she'll do something for her duchies in the future, but I don't think there will suddenly be a need for her.
I also don't think we need more working royals.

 

[JR76]

... but I don't think there will suddenly be a need for her.
I also don't think we need more working royals.

I agree. The King and Queen are working because they want to not because of a lack of royals available to pick up the slack. If more working royals were needed then they'd make better use of Carl Philip and Sofia and have them work full-time.

 

[LadyFinn]

Their first fellow home was a flat in the house on Sjötullsbacke on Djurgården and after that they moved into Sjöpaviljongen at Drottningholm which had previously been the home of Crown Princess Victoria and, if I remember it correctly, later became the home of their cousin Patrick Sommerlath and played an integral part of the alleged trafficking scandal involving him last year.

To my knowledge there hasn't been any controversies surrounding Carl Philip's living arrangements but then the royal right of disposal didn't become an issue until a few years ago.

Carl Philip and Sofia lived at Sjötullsbacken at the same house where the Marshal of the Realm Fredrik Wersäll lives now, the house has three apartments. The Master of Ceremonies Otto von Platen and his wife lived at the house already when Carl Philip and Sofia lived there.

Madeleine never had any official royal engagements. She has a few patronages and maybe she'll do something for her duchies in the future, but I don't think there will suddenly be a need for her.
I also don't think we need more working royals.

I also think Madeleine will continue with her work at the World Childhood Foundation and take over it when Queen Silvia quits or passes away. And Madeleine will do some work with her patronages and possibly visit her duchies and attend the big events like Nobel ceremonies, National Day, Opening of the Riksdag, State visits and Victoria's birthday. Madeleine has said that she wants to take care of her children herself when they are still young, so I don't see that she would get a bigger work load right now. In addition to that the King and Queen want to work and I don't see that they would cut their work events very much. Plus that Carl Philip could work more, Sofia obviously wants to take care of her children herself now.

 

[Mbruno]

I agree. The King and Queen are working because they want to not because of a lack of royals available to pick up the slack. If more working royals were needed then they'd make better use of Carl Philip and Sofia and have them work full-time.

The King had a heart procedure recently, but he looks very well and in no need to slow down. Queen Silvia, on the other hand, in my humble opinion at least, has been looking increasingly frail as she ages. If I were her advisor, I would suggest delegating some of her workload to her children.

Madeleine has always been very close to her mother apparently. She would be an ideal candidate to pick up some of the Queen's patronages. Although the Crown Princess and her husband can probably manage on their own, I think Victoria, as the heir, should focus on official/ state-related events and leave more of the non-official royal business to her siblings.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

Unless my memory serves me bad, it was stated around the time when Carl Philip’s and Madeleine’s children was stripped of their ”H.R.H” status and the line was drawn clear between who belongs to the royal family and who belongs to the royal house, that the main focus will only be on The King and Queen and The Crown Princess and Prince Daniel.

That makes me quite sure that they won’t pack Carl Philip, Sofia, and Madeleine with many new patronages… They will do their already existing work, and Madeleine will likely at some point replace her mother with the World Childhood Foundation… But apart from that, i don’t expect them to take over a lot work from their parents…

The King and especially The Queen has also made it clear that they have no plans to slow down in the near future

 

[JR76]

Unless my memory serves me bad, it was stated around the time when Carl Philip’s and Madeleine’s children was stripped of their ”H.R.H” status and the line was drawn clear between who belongs to the royal family and who belongs to the royal house, that the main focus will only be on The King and Queen and The Crown Princess and Prince Daniel.

That makes me quite sure that they won’t pack Carl Philip, Sofia, and Madeleine with many new patronages… They will do their already existing work, and Madeleine will likely at some point replace her mother with the World Childhood Foundation… But apart from that, i don’t expect them to take over a lot work from their parents…

The King and especially The Queen has also made it clear that they have no plans to slow down in the near future

It was also said that Carl Philip would be needed to occasionally step in until Estelle turns 18 and that his and Sofia's public engagements would decrease as time passed by. Among other things he'd be needed as regent if something happened to her parents and grandparents.
That we saw their profile and visibility increase shortly thereafter was an anomaly caused by the extraordinary crisis during the pandemic.
It should be noted that much of their work is done to promote their foundation and their different patronages and aren't really royal engagements. This is how I see Madeleine's future as well - like her brother and aunt she'll do the occasional appearance at royal ceremonies and the rest of the time she'll sprinkle some royal fairy dust over whatever she chooses to do for work.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Madeleine never had any official royal engagements.

While Princess Madeleine and Prince Carl Philip have never been full-time working royals, they remain members of the Royal House (i.e. the working part of the royal family) and it has always been the case that some of their engagements are treated as "official" (by inclusion on the court website and such).

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Regarding the 2019 announcement concerning the slimming down of the Royal House, the section concerning the adult royals read as follows:

His Majesty The King and Her Royal Highness The Crown Princess are, together with Her Majesty The Queen and His Royal Highness Prince Daniel, Sweden’s highest representatives within the Realm and vis-à-vis other States.

Their Royal Highnesses Prince Carl Philip and Princess Sofia, and Her Royal Highness Princess Madeleine will continue their work in the non-profit foundations and organisations which they have founded or in which they are involved. In addition, they will perform official duties to the extent decided by His Majesty.
​

I believe the remark about Carl Philip, Sofia and Madeleine's roles gradually reducing over the course of time was made by the Marshal of the Realm at the following meeting with the press.


Regarding JR76's comment on a potential regency, please see my reply in this thread:

Prince Daniel as Regent?

The most likely scenario imho is that Estelle will be of age at the time her mother becomes queen, so there won't be a need for a regent ? Of course, that is still 8 years away and he might surprise us by abdicating or he might die before his granddaughter's 18th birthday but let's hope the...

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[Mbruno]

Unless my memory serves me bad, it was stated around the time when Carl Philip’s and Madeleine’s children was stripped of their ”H.R.H” status and the line was drawn clear between who belongs to the royal family and who belongs to the royal house, that the main focus will only be on The King and Queen and The Crown Princess and Prince Daniel.

That makes me quite sure that they won’t pack Carl Philip, Sofia, and Madeleine with many new patronages… They will do their already existing work, and Madeleine will likely at some point replace her mother with the World Childhood Foundation… But apart from that, i don’t expect them to take over a lot work from their parents…

The King and especially The Queen has also made it clear that they have no plans to slow down in the near future

Their children were stripped of the HRH, but Carl Philip and Madeleine were not. They are still part of the Royal House and it is perfectly within expectations that, as members of the Royal House, they should take royal duties.

European royal families are really wasting valuable resources when they don’t utilize the service of available adult royals.

 

[JR76]

Their children were stripped of the HRH, but Carl Philip and Madeleine were not. They are still part of the Royal House and it is perfectly within expectations that, as members of the Royal House, they should take royal duties.

European royal families are really wasting valuable resources when they don’t utilize the service of available adult royals.

They are utilised to the extent deemed necessary.