Princess Diana's Relationship with her Stepmother, Raine Spencer

[Osipi]

I have see Charles and Camilla referred to as Prince George's "grandparents" many times over the past few months. If Camilla is to be classed as this, then why is Raine Spencer never referred to as the great grandmother? She was married to Princess Diana's father for 16 years until she was widowed.

When you think about it, Raine Spencer has absolutely no blood ties to George but I imagine that should be listed as George's step-grandmother as Camilla is, in truth, a step-grandmother also. We really don't have a clue what William's relationship is like with Raine and perhaps if they do visit, George will call her "granny" or something similar.

Raine Spencer also went on to marry again after Diana's father died. It could be very possible that Raine hasn't kept up with any of the Spencer relations after her remarriage.

 

[Mirabel]

I always heard that Raine didn't get along with any of the Spencer children.

I know her relationship with Diana improved somewhat, but I don't think she was close to any of the others.

 

[cepe]

When you think about it, Raine Spencer has absolutely no blood ties to George but I imagine that should be listed as George's step-grandmother as Camilla is, in truth, a step-grandmother also. We really don't have a clue what William's relationship is like with Raine and perhaps if they do visit, George will call her "granny" or something similar.

Raine Spencer also went on to marry again after Diana's father died. It could be very possible that Raine hasn't kept up with any of the Spencer relations after her remarriage.

Actually she is further removed as step great grandmother (same "level" as the Queen, not grandparents)

 

[Osipi]

I always heard that Raine didn't get along with any of the Spencer children.

I know her relationship with Diana improved somewhat, but I don't think she was close to any of the others.

I think that showed when after Johnnie Spencer passed away and Charles inherited Althorp, Raine vacated the premises. I think at best, Raine was tolerated by the Spencer children and perhaps, as you stated, their relationship improved with age.

One thing I'm wondering now after looking at some some facts about Raine is that I've noticed her maiden name was McCorquodale. Is there any relationship between Raine's family and Neil Edmund McCorquodale that married Diana's sister Sarah?

 

[Spheno]

One thing I'm wondering now after looking at some some facts about Raine is that I've noticed her maiden name was McCorquodale. Is there any relationship between Raine's family and Neil Edmund McCorquodale that married Diana's sister Sarah?

second cousins once removed

George McCorquodale ->Alexander Cowan McCorquodale ->Alexander George McCorquodale ->Raine Spencer
George McCorquodale ->Harold McCorquodale ->Kenneth McCorquodale ->Alastair McCorquodale -> Neil Edmund McCorquodale

 

[cepe]

I think that showed when after Johnnie Spencer passed away and Charles inherited Althorp, Raine vacated the premises. I think at best, Raine was tolerated by the Spencer children and perhaps, as you stated, their relationship improved with age.

One thing I'm wondering now after looking at some some facts about Raine is that I've noticed her maiden name was McCorquodale. Is there any relationship between Raine's family and Neil Edmund McCorquodale that married Diana's sister Sarah?

Nice and complex. Quote from Wiki:

Raine McCorquodale is the only child of novelist Dame Barbara Cartland and Alexander McCorquodale, an Army officer who was heir to a printing fortune. Her parents divorced in 1936, and her mother promptly married Alexander McCorquodale's cousin, Hugh McCorquodale, by whom she had two sons, Ian and Glen McCorquodale.

Also from Wiki:

Lady Sarah Spencer married Neil Edmund McCorquodale (born 1951), son of Alastair McCorquodale and Rosemary Sybil Turnor, on 17 May 1980 in Northamptonshire, England.[2] Neil McCorquodale is a nephew of Lady Sarah's stepmother, Raine Spencer.

Crikey!

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I have see Charles and Camilla referred to as Prince George's "grandparents" many times over the past few months. If Camilla is to be classed as this, then why is Raine Spencer never referred to as the great grandmother? She was married to Princess Diana's father for 16 years until she was widowed.

Perhaps if Raine was still married to Johnny then she would be referred to as that. Camilla is married to his grandfather but his maternal great grandfather is dead so why would his widow be referred to as his step great grandmother.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Perhaps if Raine was still married to Johnny then she would be referred to as that. Camilla is married to his grandfather but his maternal great grandfather is dead so why would his widow be referred to as his step great grandmother.

Even when her husband was alive Raine was never referred to as William and Harry's grandmother--mainly because Diana's mother was still alive. I tend to think some news outlets insist on referring to Camilla as George's grandmother to stir up Diana fans who still resent Camilla. Some media thrives on controversy.

 

[MARG]

You could be right, although I know several "blended" families that never, ever describe themselves by degrees, steps, halves, etc. Family is family, end of story!

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

What I find worse thaN the stairs incident is what Charles did after his father died, essentially just throwing Raine out of her own house. I dont know why that bothers me more. The Spencer children were horrible to Raine and it seems she did nothing to deserve it except marry Johnny. It appears William and Harry and the Spencer children have more respect and human compassion for their step mothers.

 

[Ish]

You could be right, although I know several "blended" families that never, ever describe themselves by degrees, steps, halves, etc. Family is family, end of story!

I was going to say similar.

Camilla could be considered to be George's grandmother (or one of his grandmothers) because she has a good relationship with William and Catherine. Raine, on the other hand, was not close with Diana so to say that she was just a third grandmother to Diana's children would be inaccurate.

 

[MARG]

I always heard that Raine didn't get along with any of the Spencer children.

I know her relationship with Diana improved somewhat, but I don't think she was close to any of the others.

Hmm, wasn't it Morton's book that chronicled the toxic relationship between Diana and her step-mother? Diana shoving her down the stairs in rage, stuffing all her clothes in rubbish bags and throwing them down the stairs and out the doors after the death of her father. Hardly the way to treat anyone and certainly no pity for her father's widow.

Not much love lost there I suspect!

 

[LauraS3514]

The four Spencer children, IIRC, were presented with a "fait accompli" in Raine, with the marriage coming nearly out of the blue. What really compounded the rift, however, is something that Raine herself admitted: she refused permission for the Earl's children to visit him in hospital after his stroke, even when the doctors believed he would die. This occurred relatively soon after their marriage and the children never forgave her.

 

[Mermaid1962]

They also blamed Raine for selling off the family's heritage--furniture and paintings--even though it was necessary to save the Althorp estate. The late Earl Spencer approved, but Raine was blamed for it.

 

[Queen Camilla]

The mistreatment of Raine by the Spencer family was unforgivable. It shows their true character.

John Spencer met Raine in 1974 and married her in 1975. He had a brain aneurysm in 1978.

John Spencer died in 1992.

Sarah was 19/20/23. She was not a child and she was living on her own by the time John met Raine.

Jane was 17/19/21. She too was not a child. She was living on her own by the time John married Raine and was a married woman when John Spencer had the brain aneurysm.

Diana was 13/14/17. She was a teenager and when John Spencer suffered his brain aneursym she was living in London.

Charles was 10/11/14.

Jane, Diana and Charles had little contact with Raine as they were all in boarding school. When they were on school vacation they split their time between their mother and their father.

All were adults in 1992 and there is no excuse for their behavior. There is no excuse for Diana's behavior in 1989 nor in 1992. She was an adult not a small child.

Pushing a woman down a flight of stairs because she failed to say hello, says it all about Diana and her attitude towards people.

Diana should have been prosecuted for assault.

Raine was considerably older and smaller than Diana. The incident should have been made public in 1989 with all the media's attention focused on Diana's assault and cruelty. Three years later Diana helped her brother throw out Raine's possessions out of Althrop.

Diana was a bully.

 

[Mermaid1962]

This incident, Diana's slapping her father, and her glee in telling these stories to Peter Settelen are chiefly why I changed my mind about much of Diana's behaviour. There are many, many people who suffer from eating disorders and mood disorders and are 'difficult'--but they don't all participate in these kinds of actions. Since she was so volatile and out-of-control, she should have been medicated.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/dec/12/monarchy.barbaraellen

Pushing a woman down a flight of stairs because she failed to say hello, says it all about Diana and her attitude towards people.

I think it's normal for the widow of a titled man to leave the 'big house' to make room for the heir and his family, I doubt that it's normally done in such a horrid fashion.

What I find worse thaN the stairs incident is what Charles did after his father died, essentially just throwing Raine out of her own house.

 

[anbrida]

Diana had a very good relationship with Raine Spencer since 1993. AT DIANA'S instigation, Diana and Raine became friends and their good relationship lasted until her death.

"It was at her instigation. She wrote a note to me saying, "Please let's be friends and will you come to lunch?" So then, from then (1993) on, our relationship became very close." -- Raine Spencer to the inequst

And Raine loved Diana very much, here is her own words:

"Being a stepmother is a very difficult role, almost unwinnable. The only hope is that you will achieve a certain friendship, but it ended with me loving my stepdaughter very much.” - Raine Spencer

Raine made a very touching statement at the end of her testimony to the inquest of Diana and Dodi's death

Raine: Your Lordship, could I crave your indulgence to make only, I promise you, a very short statement, if I could be allowed?

LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Yes.

Raine: It was really that I wanted to thank you, your Lordship, and all the jury and all the legal gentlemen and everyone who has given up so much of their time to try and find out the truth about this matter, because I think anyone who is in this court today will -- who has ever lost a loved one, will know the appalling sense of loss and the feeling that the whole world has fallen away under your feet. I had that feeling when my adored husband died. But for all Diana's relations, her sons, her sisters, her brother, her close friends and all the Fayed family, Mr and Mrs Fayed, the sisters, the brothers and all their relations and uncles and aunts, they have had to go through something which is almost unprecedented, and a tragedy very, very public and beyond any proportion of what any ordinary people could possibly expect. So, thanking you, sir, again, and everyone who is concerned, the court officials, everyone who has had a part of this, I do beg you to do your utmost to solve this mystery, to tear aside anything that could be a cover-up and to sift everything possible and everything indeed impossible in order to allow poor Diana and poor Dodi to at last truly rest in peace.

LORD JUSTICE SCOTT BAKER: Well, thank you for your sentiments and I am sure I say that on behalf of all of us. We are all certainly trying to leave no stone unturned.

 

[MARG]

When all is said and done, and written about for that matter, and a not so small forest has been felled to publish Diana's story, it is the words of Diana herself that have caused the most damage to her "Legacy".

The Settelen tapes and Mortons book showed us an ugly, bitter and spiteful person that had, not surprisingly, become increasingly isolated. I believe she thought that if people were not vocal in their support, then they were her enemies. No middle ground.

As for the tapes, one has to wonder why Diana made them because what she disclosed beggared belief. It is bad enough to read some of the cruel things that Diana did and published in Mortons book. But along came the Settelen tapes and you could hear her spite, malice and sheer glee at some to the almost unbelievable things she did and said. The questions from Barbara Ellen's article still remain. Who and what did she make the tapes for?

Focus: the Diana tapes | UK news | The Guardian

To hear that Raine not only forgave Diana but also came to love her, says more about the true nature of Raine than Diana. But, that Raine forgave her did not alter the fact of what Diana did and said and how ugly it all was. With Diana playing her usual games, she missed out on the warmth and love of a really generous woman who loved her in spite of everything.

 

[anbrida]

To hear that Raine not only forgave Diana but also came to love her, says more about the true nature of Raine than Diana. But, that Raine forgave her did not alter the fact of what Diana did and said and how ugly it all was. With Diana playing her usual games, she missed out on the warmth and love of a really generous woman who loved her in spite of everything.

I do believe love is mutual. There must be some special qualities about Diana which make Raine loved and missed her so much. You won't love someone who is mean to you. One thing I am quite sure that, the "Diana" Raine knew was very different to the "Diana" you knew. So no comparison here.

And it make me feel sick to hear that you call Diana's commitment and effort to help those mine victims as "a game". You might not like her method, but you should not degrade her intention as "playing a game". It is outrageous to me.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I do believe love is mutual. There must be some special qualities about Diana which make Raine loved and missed her so much. You won't love someone who is mean to you. One thing I am quite sure that, the "Diana" Raine knew was very different to the "Diana" you knew. So no comparison here.

Love is NOT mutual.

Many people love someone whose love isn't returned. It happens many, many times.

The one thing we do know is that Diana had trouble loving anyone and that many people who loved her had their love and friendship thrown back in their faces.

She had many issues - including trouble keeping relationships because of the way she treated people.

 

[royal rob]

character assassination is what happens here regrading Diana.
Wouldn't happen with a living princess but she's dead so let's say whatever we like ! I don't understand the hatred people have for her or why they are allowed to be disrespectful when we can't be with any living princess. JMO


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

 

[anbrida]

I think it is absolute not right for Diana to push her step-mother off a step. But it is arguable whether it is due to her character or her mental illness at that time (bulimia and depression).

But I don't see the necessity to over exaggerate it as Diana wanted to harm Raine intentionally. It is a step not stair. It might be a big step or a small step. I tend to believe it is a small step, because considering there were so many guests and photographers in the event (Charles Spencer's wedding was a big social event at that time), no one and no news had came out to talk about this incident at all. So it is very likely so minor that people didn't even notice.

No doubt the incident had happened. But without any witness, any news, there is no need to exaggerate it. The good news is, Diana and Raine became good friends later and the friendship lasted for many years. There is no need to imagine a story like Raine was an angel, Diana was an evil, and the angel loved the evil so much, she missed the evil long after she died, and made a statement to beg for the justice for the evil to make her rip.

 

[royal rob]

I guess I just don't understand the length people go to take very part of Diana's life and condemn her. I would never spend my time doing that about someone who is dead. There are so many terrible things happening in the world at the moment I would think a royal forum would be a happy retreat away from the bad of the world. IMO they seems to be more hate than love here. I know I should just not read the Diana's threads. But to me and I'm sure others Diana was someone I loved seeing and reading about. But there's no happiness here anything anyone says that is the least bit nice is slapped down. It's all " but this book or I heard or I teach ". I guess you must enjoy it I just don't understand it.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

 

[Dman]

Are people still going over the rocky start of Diana's relationship with her stepmother, of which their relationship approved very well and long before Diana died?

 

[Mermaid1962]

I agree with you, Marg. Raine must be a very forgiving woman.

To hear that Raine not only forgave Diana but also came to love her, says more about the true nature of Raine than Diana. But, that Raine forgave her did not alter the fact of what Diana did and said and how ugly it all was.

I'm one of those people as well. I prefer to look at my old picture books and think about the young, beautiful princess who was only a year older than I. However, that's only part of the picture. I've had to admit, reluctantly, that there were parts of her character that we very different from the public image. I believe that she did care about the people she served. I think that she had a genuine, unaffected kindness and did 'light up a room.' I don't make comments with the intent of slapping down any happy memories. Perhaps there should be a 'happy memories of Diana' thread here for those who want to remember the good times, free of controversy.

But to me and I'm sure others Diana was someone I loved seeing and reading about. But there's no happiness here anything anyone says that is the least bit nice is slapped down. It's all " but this book or I heard or I teach ". I guess you must enjoy it I just don't understand it.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

 

[Dman]

I'm one of those people as well. I prefer to look at my old picture books and think about the young, beautiful princess who was only a year older than I. However, that's only part of the picture. I've had to admit, reluctantly, that there were parts of her character that we very different from the public image. I believe that she did care about the people she served. I think that she had a genuine, unaffected kindness and did 'light up a room.' I don't make comments with the intent of slapping down any happy memories. Perhaps there should be a 'happy memories of Diana' thread here for those who want to remember the good times, free of controversy.

She wasn't perfect, but there were lots of good things Diana did and happy memories of her and with her families. A lot of those happy memories get pushed to the deep, dark, and far background in order to make tons and tons of room for the unhappy memories, unfounded rumors and controversy. In the end, those are the memories that stick and are remembered the most. It's just sad.

 

[anbrida]

I agree with you, Marg. Raine must be a very forgiving woman.

Yes so forgiving that she refused to shake hand with Diana's mother Frances. Raine's explanation is because Frances caused a lot of pain to John Spencer. But don't forget John Spencer was a physical abusive husband too. Even she was right, after so many years she still can not forgive Frances? Doesn't sound like an extremely forgiving person to me.

Don't get me wrong. I don't mean to degrade Raine Spencer, just fed up with the opinion that Raine Spencer loved Diana very much was only because Raine was such an forgiving woman, rather than they just simply had mutual respect and fondness towards each other.

 

[Osipi]

One thing I do have noticed and need to remark on here. No one is trying to specifically "speak ill of the dead" and degrade Diana. This is a discussion forum and not a teeny bopper fan board and we are here to freely discuss topics in relation to royals. In this sub forum, its Diana.

Diana was human. She was a royal princess that ended up not a royal princess. She did good. She did bad and she did stupid. Just like every one of us if we were honest. She had a short life and was in the public eye. Her mistake was to drag her private affairs and woes of her marriage in front of the camera and press. She did wonderful charity work. She did not get along all the time with people. She died young and tragically. Her life is now frozen in time and the memory of her will fade with time.

We're lucky to have a discussion forum like this to not only remember Diana, but to discuss various facets of her life, her work, her personality and her loves and foibles. To only present the gushing, sweet, gooey things that are Diana is to ignore the total person she was.

 

[Osipi]

I think what mattered the most is that although there was antagonism between Raine and the Spencer children, Diana and Raine did come to have a good relationship before she died.

 

[soapstar]

Posts discussing Diana's relationship with Barry Mannakee have been moved to the 'Diana's Friends, Lovers and Bodyguards' thread.

I have had to delete and edit a ton of off-topic posts. This thread is not about religion, Diana's mental health, the relationship she had with Mannakee, or whether or not the younger generation remember her.

I understand that discussions about Diana can be polarizing, but I need to remind everyone that personal attacks against other members are against the forum rules. Any further off-topic posts will be deleted.