Princess Caroline and husbands part II

[noirfabi]

others times,people which never come back

 

[Vera Friedel]

The " Stefano time " was the best IMO.

 

[Horseygal]

The " Stefano time " was the best IMO.

Yes, that was a true love match, and they seemed to truly enjoy themselves. I believe that Caroline and Ernst are happy together, too, but his "social" issues have made things a bit tough - although, it seems he's worked thru much of that. Plus, they have Alexandra....she brings them joy.

 

[CEC]

Does anyone know how Caroline became involved with EA? From my understanding he was married to Chantal who was a friend of her's... She doesn't seem like the type that would steal anyone's husband....

 

[Tosca]

Does anyone know how Caroline became involved with EA? From my understanding he was married to Chantal who was a friend of her's... She doesn't seem like the type that would steal anyone's husband....

Well, she stole Pinuccia Macheda's boyfriend, a guy named Stefano Casiraghi...

 

[CEC]

yes, but they weren't married or had kids and from my understanding Caroline and Chantal were friends. I am a bit curious...

Also wasn't it about that time that Caroline lost her hair?

 

[tbhrc]

Caroline and Stefano

Caroline and Philippe

 

[tbhrc]

Some clippings of Princess Caroline & Stefano Casiraghi

Gallery

 

[iloveroyals]

Thanks for the clippings, tbhrc ! I love that black suit with the red and white trimming on Caroline. Her hairstyle and bright red lipstick go perfectly with it and it makes her look youtful and prim at the same time. In that profile picture, she could pass for 16 ! The others (hunting I guess ?), I've always thought she goes hunting for the clothes. (It's only half a joke. I undertsand she is , as they say in French "un bon fusil" (knows how to shoot), but she always wears these fabulous clothes, as if she were on a movie set. Or maybe it's me, I don't move around in the right set, so I never see it except in movies and on Caroline and her family...

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I realize that I am in the minority but I was very disappointed with Caroline's choice of Stefano for a husband. I was especially horrified at how they got together. There is nothing wrong with intense physical attraction but shacking up with someone within only a couple of weeks of sleeping with them sounds rushed and...tacky.

He did give her GORGEOUS children, but I am not convinced that they would have gone the distance and grown old together. His heartbreaking and tragically early death has enshrined him in the hearts of many Caroline fans but how do we know what would have happened if he had lived? He was very young and I can remember reading many rumors about his roving eye and playboy lifestyle.

I have read several magazine articles and books and Stefano, God rest his soul, comes off as quite a lightweight. Again, other than sexual attraction I don't have a clue what an intellectual like the Princess saw in the guy.l

 

[iloveroyals]

It seems nobody has ever been happy with Carolin'es choices in husbands, in fact it is a leitmotif in articles about her : that she is better at choosing clothes (we'll keep that uncommented at the moment...) than at choosing husbands.

The problem with our perception of her husbands is that it is always slanted:
1) by the magazine article
2) by a biography
3) by the pictures we see

With Philippe Junot, the French press at first adored him, and then came the backlash, the press deciding to side with Caroline. I don't mean to be cynical, and after all, he was the guilty party (enough pictures to prove it), but when you know how the press works and what velvet gloves they use for those who will be useful for selling papers, better to stick with Caroline, more staying power for future sales, interviews, etc.
From the articles I read about Stefano (but I know there are others-- which I did not read at the time--) he was portrayed as a lightweight, very much in the shadow of his wife.
Needless to say, I don't think there have been many positive articles about Ernst. He has always hated the press, and they return the courtesy. Now, even his seeming utter loyalty to his wife seems to be described as being that of a German shepherd dog on a short leash. You can't win with such descriptions, somebody can always put a malicious turn on something innocuous or worthy.

The biographies (about Grace, or Grace and Rainier) still portray Philippe as a playboy, but have mellowed down in their portrayal of him as a villain and seducer.
The ones I have read have not been kind to Stefano, what with the stories about "a girl" in Milano, shady connections, reckless business schemes, debts that had been reimbursed by selling off Grace's jewels, and so on.

Some pictures don't lie : I mean, Ernst peeing against the Turkish building at the Hanover's international fair (I think it was), the press was only too happy to circulate them worldwide. His changing into his bathing suit on the beach, baring his bottom for the world (and young step-daughter ) to see, well, that's another picture that we can view as evidence of a certain trait of personality, or if we wish to be kind, of cultural mores where nudity can be exposed in certain circumstances frowned upon by other cultures.

Where is the truth about these men's characteristics ? About Caroline's feelings for them ? There are many pictures of her looking radiant with each of her three husbands. And of course there is the disappointment, sadness and humiliation in her expressions after the separation and divorce from Philippe; the unspeakable grief of the young widow, etched for years in her drawn and strained face, and now, something else, which I find hard put to describe: a lack of spirit, of joy, almost of care, that may or may not be related to her marriage to Ernst.

If you want my personal opinion, which I think I have expressed before : Having conceived 2 children out of wedlock, she could show a little more care toward nieces and nephews (not to mention her sister) that were not conceived according to the moral or religious rules of her culture.

She was at her most spirited youthfulness during her courtship and marriage with Philippe; at her most radiant during her marriage with Stefano. But at least at the beginning, she also seemed to be bursting with newly found joy during the early years with Ernst and (again from the pictures), he seemed to tickle her sense of humor in a way that the other two hadn't. Those "crises de fou rire" (unstoppable laughter) couldn't have been fake. I guess we could always be unkind and call them hysterical, but I happen to always like those who make her laugh, because she has the most delightful smile-laugh in the world.

 

[rosana]

I realize that I am in the minority but I was very disappointed with Caroline's choice of Stefano for a husband. I was especially horrified at how they got together. There is nothing wrong with intense physical attraction but shacking up with someone within only a couple of weeks of sleeping with them sounds rushed and...tacky.

So, how much time according to your morality is the right time to shack with someone? And why do you think you have the right to judge so private facts?
She was in love and made it her way.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

So, how much time according to your morality is the right time to shack with someone? And why do you think you have the right to judge so private facts?
She was in love and made it her way.

I was simply giving my opinion. It has nothing to do with my morality. I suppose if I had come on to this forum and gushed about what a lovely couple Caroline and Stefano were you would have no problem with my response, which is why I prefaced my comments with I KNOW I AM IN THE MINORITY.

If this is a gush Forum then I am in the wrong place. But it is not and I find your response rude and presumptuous.

I stand by MY comments and MY opinion.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

It seems nobody has ever been happy with Carolin'es choices in husbands, in fact it is a leitmotif in articles about her : that she is better at choosing clothes (we'll keep that uncommented at the moment...) than at choosing husbands.

The problem with our perception of her husbands is that it is always slanted:
1) by the magazine article
2) by a biography
3) by the pictures we see

With Philippe Junot, the French press at first adored him, and then came the backlash, the press deciding to side with Caroline. I don't mean to be cynical, and after all, he was the guilty party (enough pictures to prove it), but when you know how the press works and what velvet gloves they use for those who will be useful for selling papers, better to stick with Caroline, more staying power for future sales, interviews, etc.
From the articles I read about Stefano (but I know there are others-- which I did not read at the time--) he was portrayed as a lightweight, very much in the shadow of his wife.
Needless to say, I don't think there have been many positive articles about Ernst. He has always hated the press, and they return the courtesy. Now, even his seeming utter loyalty to his wife seems to be described as being that of a German shepherd dog on a short leash. You can't win with such descriptions, somebody can always put a malicious turn on something innocuous or worthy.

The biographies (about Grace, or Grace and Rainier) still portray Philippe as a playboy, but have mellowed down in their portrayal of him as a villain and seducer.
The ones I have read have not been kind to Stefano, what with the stories about "a girl" in Milano, shady connections, reckless business schemes, debts that had been reimbursed by selling off Grace's jewels, and so on.

Some pictures don't lie : I mean, Ernst peeing against the Turkish building at the Hanover's international fair (I think it was), the press was only too happy to circulate them worldwide. His changing into his bathing suit on the beach, baring his bottom for the world (and young step-daughter ) to see, well, that's another picture that we can view as evidence of a certain trait of personality, or if we wish to be kind, of cultural mores where nudity can be exposed in certain circumstances frowned upon by other cultures.

Where is the truth about these men's characteristics ? About Caroline's feelings for them ? There are many pictures of her looking radiant with each of her three husbands. And of course there is the disappointment, sadness and humiliation in her expressions after the separation and divorce from Philippe; the unspeakable grief of the young widow, etched for years in her drawn and strained face, and now, something else, which I find hard put to describe: a lack of spirit, of joy, almost of care, that may or may not be related to her marriage to Ernst.

If you want my personal opinion, which I think I have expressed before : Having conceived 2 children out of wedlock, she could show a little more care toward nieces and nephews (not to mention her sister) that were not conceived according to the moral or religious rules of her culture.

She was at her most spirited youthfulness during her courtship and marriage with Philippe; at her most radiant during her marriage with Stefano. But at least at the beginning, she also seemed to be bursting with newly found joy during the early years with Ernst and (again from the pictures), he seemed to tickle her sense of humor in a way that the other two hadn't. Those "crises de fou rire" (unstoppable laughter) couldn't have been fake. I guess we could always be unkind and call them hysterical, but I happen to always like those who make her laugh, because she has the most delightful smile-laugh in the world.

ILR...It is always such a pleasure to read an intelligent well thought out post response versus a mindless attack. Thanks so much.

I agree with you 100%. Caroline is obviously a young woman who used, or uses her heart versus her head when it comes to the men in her life. Author Jose Villalonga(the Princess's biographer) said in Point de Vue that her entire life has been a series of selfish decisions. I think that is probably harsh but one can certainly say that was the case with Ernst-August. The man was married to one of her closest friends and had children, for God's sake.

As for Stefano, she was on a cruise in the Med with some friends and his yacht pulled up, whereupon she jumped ship and spent the next few days in a passionate tryst with the man, then less than six weeks later moved him into her home and became pregnant. No one is denying that he made her happy-at least on the surface. But to say that he was the "right" one based on their slightly under seven years of marriage seems a bit of a stretch. As harsh as it sounds how do we know that? A soulmate couple is a couple that is tested thru time and many trials and still perseveres. The fact of Stefano's early and tragic death and Caroline's intense grief afterword does not necessarily mean that they would have stayed together always.

I read a lot of books and periodicals as well and I too have heard some rather shady things about the young Italian. He was immensely ambitious and liked to throw his weight around Monaco. There is a story that he had a doorman at the Hotel de Paris sacked because the guy didn't stand quickly enough when he entered...I have also read that he was so unpopular on the Rock that some people actually popped open champagne the night he was killed.

All of her husbands seemed to fit with a particular period in her life. It's all relative.

 

[rosana]

I was simply giving my opinion. It has nothing to do with my morality. I suppose if I had come on to this forum and gushed about what a lovely couple Caroline and Stefano were you would have no problem with my response, which is why I prefaced my comments with I KNOW I AM IN THE MINORITY.

If this is a gush Forum then I am in the wrong place. But it is not and I find your response rude and presumptuous.

I stand by MY comments and MY opinion.

So give an opinion on how long a couple should be dating before living together is not rude an presumptouos? It is also impolite,indiscreet, impertinent and i can go on with so many adjectives. There´s something called private life, and regarding an intimate relationship, it´s only THEIR business, and no one else´s.
And don´t give yourself so much importance, no one is attacking you.

 

[rosana]

The man was married to one of her closest friends and had children, for God's sake.

As for Stefano, she was on a cruise in the Med with some friends and his yacht pulled up, whereupon she jumped ship and spent the next few days in a passionate tryst with the man, then less than six weeks later moved him into her home and became pregnant.

You say it´s not morality what counts on your opinions?
People fall in love,sometimes it just happens,and one can do nothing against that, i can´t believe i am explaining something so basic about human nature!!
As Caroline is a Catholic, i hope she asked forgiveness for all her faults, for God sake!!!!

 

[iloveroyals]

This is such a hard issue, because members are so protective of either Princess Caroline, or of one of her husbands, that it's hard to show (or be perceived as showing) objectivity.

For me, as far as the "Princess Caroline and her husbands" issue is concerned, it is all about how a public persona wishes to be perceived, and how she uses the media to her own ends. It has been said that Princess Diana was a master at manipulating the media... up to a point. Sometimes, however much in control you want to be or wish to be seen, the cracks in the facade show, and I think that's what some of us have seen in the carefully elaborated facade of Caroline, and what we have been disappointed about.

Princess Caroline is much too savvy a person to know how much "public" public relations can influence our judgment of things. (That's why I don't buy the line of how close she may be to Stephanie's children, keeping that closeness carefully under wraps for the public. To what end ?) Considering her first failed marriage and how much heartbreak it caused her parents, her second marriage that ended in tragedy and trauma, and the third, which had to be accomplished through the betrayal of a close female friend (or to put it bluntly, through stealing a close friend's husband), I think what we are dismayed about is how little tolerance she shows for her siblings' own muddled choices and mistakes. I don't buy the line of "What can you do when you fall in love with someone (else)?". Caroline is not some little Hollywood starlet who makes our heart beat to the rhythm of her own arhythmic heart beats. If she is the (self-appointed ?) standard by which the principality is judged, it comes with some responsibilities. I tire of the concomitant line of "Caroline can do no wrong, Caroline can wear nothing wrong, only she can pull it off", etc, etc.. Who put her on such a pedestal in the first place and why participate in such a charade ? With her previous marriages, both her parents (then P. Rainier) went along, siblings included. We see pictures of Stephanie kidding around with Philippe, Stefano, Ernst.. Some reciprocity should be expected. Did we ever see Caroline being gracious to any of her siblings' spouse(s) or boyfriend-girlfriend (except maybe now, with Charlene?) It seems that for Albert and Stephanie, family ties come first: Caroline gets married, her husband is now family. What goes one with Caroline ? What comes first ? Blood ties ? It hardly seems so, the way she has treated Stephanie, her children, and Albert's children. What do family ties mean to her ?

I think it's time for her and a certain press that cultivates that adulation to bring her down a notch, point to the own grief she has caused to her loved ones (certainly with her marriage to Junot, where her parents behaved with the utmost graciousness and maturity, given the circumstances, era, etc), to a once close woman friend, and to show the public a united front for the principality's sake. Caroline as humanitarian star with a pilgrim's stick in search of children to save (and I don't doubt the sincerity of her convictions and admire them) is one thing. Now it's time to play the humanitarian in the bosom of her own family and reach out to the offspring of her own siblings' failed or non-existent marriages. Somehow, from the research I did on Princess Grace, I am sure that's what her mother would have done. And whatever past Princess Grace had to atone for, she did it masterfully in her marriage and as a mother and aunt. To me, that's the example to follow.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

You say it´s not morality what counts on your opinions?
People fall in love,sometimes it just happens,and one can do nothing against that, i can´t believe i am explaining something so basic about human nature!!
As Caroline is a Catholic, i hope she asked forgiveness for all her faults, for God sake!!!!

Rosana...you think it's "romantic" and okay to sleep with a man-who by the way is already living with another woman- and conceive a child with him without barely knowing him is fine and dandy because one is "IN LOVE" and that's all that matters. I disagree. We are not cats and dogs ruled by our hormones. I don't care how much you love someone. If that's the way you do business and you think it's okay GOOD FOR YOU.

I hold myself to a different standard. I don't deem it romantic. I deem it impulsive and little tacky especially for a Catholic Princess, especially one who was burned badly in a previous relationship. Remember Philippe Junot? She was ooooh so in love too and look how that turned out!

When Caroline went to see the late John Paull II to ask him to annul her marriage to Junot-(at the time visibly pregnant by Stefano) even he saw how shallow her behavior was and called her on it(according to one of her biographers) He sent her away and told her to grow up and stop being so self centered, in so many words!

 

[Moonmaiden23]

This is such a hard issue, because members are so protective of either Princess Caroline, or of one of her husbands, that it's hard to show (or be perceived as showing) objectivity.

For me, as far as the "Princess Caroline and her husbands" issue is concerned, it is all about how a public persona wishes to be perceived, and how she uses the media to her own ends. It has been said that Princess Diana was a master at manipulating the media... up to a point. Sometimes, however much in control you want to be or wish to be seen, the cracks in the facade show, and I think that's what some of us have seen in the carefully elaborated facade of Caroline, and what we have been disappointed about.

Princess Caroline is much too savvy a person to know how much "public" public relations can influence our judgment of things. (That's why I don't buy the line of how close she may be to Stephanie's children, keeping that closeness carefully under wraps for the public. To what end ?) Considering her first failed marriage and how much heartbreak it caused her parents, her second marriage that ended in tragedy and trauma, and the third, which had to be accomplished through the betrayal of a close female friend (or to put it bluntly, through stealing a close friend's husband), I think what we are dismayed about is how little tolerance she shows for her siblings' own muddled choices and mistakes. I don't buy the line of "What can you do when you fall in love with someone (else)?". Caroline is not some little Hollywood starlet who makes our heart beat to the rhythm of her own arhythmic heart beats. If she is the (self-appointed ?) standard by which the principality is judged, it comes with some responsibilities. I tire of the concomitant line of "Caroline can do no wrong, Caroline can wear nothing wrong, only she can pull it off", etc, etc.. Who put her on such a pedestal in the first place and why participate in such a charade ? With her previous marriages, both her parents (then P. Rainier) went along, siblings included. We see pictures of Stephanie kidding around with Philippe, Stefano, Ernst.. Some reciprocity should be expected. Did we ever see Caroline being gracious to any of her siblings' spouse(s) or boyfriend-girlfriend (except maybe now, with Charlene?) It seems that for Albert and Stephanie, family ties come first: Caroline gets married, her husband is now family. What goes one with Caroline ? What comes first ? Blood ties ? It hardly seems so, the way she has treated Stephanie, her children, and Albert's children. What do family ties mean to her ?

I think it's time for her and a certain press that cultivates that adulation to bring her down a notch, point to the own grief she has caused to her loved ones (certainly with her marriage to Junot, where her parents behaved with the utmost graciousness and maturity, given the circumstances, era, etc), to a once close woman friend, and to show the public a united front for the principality's sake. Caroline as humanitarian star with a pilgrim's stick in search of children to save (and I don't doubt the sincerity of her convictions and admire them) is one thing. Now it's time to play the humanitarian in the bosom of her own family and reach out to the offspring of her own siblings' failed or non-existent marriages. Somehow, from the research I did on Princess Grace, I am sure that's what her mother would have done. And whatever past Princess Grace had to atone for, she did it masterfully in her marriage and as a mother and aunt. To me, that's the example to follow.

Caroline is not some little Hollywood starlet who makes our heart beat to the rhythm of her own arhythmic heart beats(quote)

For me my friend, that says it ALL. Caroline is a Princess who by all accounts loves being a Princess and insists on her Royal prerogatives at all times.

But her behavior has not always been that of a Princess, let's face it. Like all of Grace and Rainier's children she comes off and spoiled, entitled and hugely over-sexed, ruled by hormones almost to the exclusion of every other consideration.

 

[rosana]

Rosana...you think it's "romantic" and okay to sleep with a man-who by the way is already living with another woman- and conceive a child with him without barely knowing him is fine and dandy because one is "IN LOVE" and that's all that matters. I disagree. We are not cats and dogs ruled by our hormones. I don't care how much you love someone. If that's the way you do business and you think it's okay GOOD FOR YOU.

I hold myself to a different standard. I don't deem it romantic. I deem it impulsive and little tacky especially for a Catholic Princess, especially one who was burned badly in a previous relationship. Remember Philippe Junot? She was ooooh so in love too and look how that turned out!

I don´t think it is romantic, romanticism comes later, i agree it´s a matter of hormones at the beginning. But Caroline is a human being like us,before a Catholic and before a princess. I once read in an interview she "desperately" wanted to have a baby and she found the right man, who can judge her?
It´s not my style neither, in that we agree, even if i have no religious prejudices. And that is the problem i have with you opinions, they sound to my so irritating beacuse thay are full of prejudice.Anyway you have the right.
But a person is not a machine that can follow rules so strictly, everybody has his reasons and if you don´t harm anybody, you can live your life as you like.

 

[Grace]

Rosana...you think it's "romantic" and okay to sleep with a man-who by the way is already living with another woman- and conceive a child with him without barely knowing him is fine and dandy because one is "IN LOVE" and that's all that matters. I disagree. We are not cats and dogs ruled by our hormones. I don't care how much you love someone. If that's the way you do business and you think it's okay GOOD FOR YOU.

I hold myself to a different standard. I don't deem it romantic. I deem it impulsive and little tacky especially for a Catholic Princess, especially one who was burned badly in a previous relationship. Remember Philippe Junot? She was ooooh so in love too and look how that turned out!

When Caroline went to see the late John Paull II to ask him to annul her marriage to Junot-(at the time visibly pregnant by Stefano) even he saw how shallow her behavior was and called her on it(according to one of her biographers) He sent her away and told her to grow up and stop being so self centered, in so many words!

My problem with your posts is that you seem to give pretty harsh judements, based on what at best can be considered rumors and hear-say: what I've read gives a different account of Caroline's behaviour; it is possible that what you've read is closer to the truth than what I know, but in case what you've heard is false, shouldn't you be a little more careful with your opinions?
For example, as far as I know, Caroline and Stefano didn't meet in the summer of 1983 but had already met and dated some months before ( I know different things also about Stefano 's previous relationship and what happened in Vatican); this is just an example of how gossip press can be misleading (whether mine or your info is true is not the point), and in my opinion saying a woman who met a man, fell in love, and not only lived with him 7 years, having three kids but still remembers him dearly (Stefano's mother words) after 18 years from his death was just guided by hormones, without knowing the person and being sure of how things really went, is a tad rushed.
Plus, had it only been lust between Stefano and Caroline, I guess when she turned out pregnant Stefano (as most 23 year old guys) would have run for the hills. JMO of course.

 

[Lady.Hamilton]

For example, as far as I know, Caroline and Stefano didn't meet in the summer of 1983 but had already met and dated some months before ( I know different things also about Stefano 's previous relationship and what happened in Vatican);

Oooh, what things do you know about stefano and his previous relationship?

 

[Tosca]

My problem with your posts is that you seem to give pretty harsh judements, based on what at best can be considered rumors and hear-say: what I've read gives a different account of Caroline's behaviour; it is possible that what you've read is closer to the truth than what I know, but in case what you've heard is false, shouldn't you be a little more careful with your opinions?
For example, as far as I know, Caroline and Stefano didn't meet in the summer of 1983 but had already met and dated some months before ( I know different things also about Stefano 's previous relationship and what happened in Vatican); this is just an example of how gossip press can be misleading (whether mine or your info is true is not the point), and in my opinion saying a woman who met a man, fell in love, and not only lived with him 7 years, having three kids but still remembers him dearly (Stefano's mother words) after 18 years from his death was just guided by hormones, without knowing the person and being sure of how things really went, is a tad rushed.
Plus, had it only been lust between Stefano and Caroline, I guess when she turned out pregnant Stefano (as most 23 year old guys) would have run for the hills. JMO of course.

Very well said Grace! Probably the posters here do not know that Caroline has a whole page printed in Italy's major newspaper obituary on Stefano's death anniversary each year, since he was killed in the boat accident, even though she's now married to EA and has a daughter with him. Life goes on you know, but hadn't she loved that man dearly, she wouldn't let the world know that she still remembers him with affection. Besides she still has a close relationship with Stefano's mother, his siblings and their children.
Fernanda, Stefano's Mom has never made any comments on Caroline's marriage to Ernst, nor has her ever blamed her ex daughter in law for stealing somebody else's husband. Ernst and Caroline were also invited at the wedding of Afra, Stefano's niece together with Princess Alexandra. Plus Fernanda said Caroline still calls her "mamma". Do you think their bonds would be still so close, hadn't she had loved Stefano with all her heart?

As for the supposed Stefano's shady connections, I think it's just pure invention of the foreign press. I never read of that in the Italian press, neither have read of him having a mistress in Milan. If this were true, the razzis (especially the Novella2000 ones...) would have surely found her out, like they did with Ducruet's mistress or the Duchess of York's Texan lover.

 

[iloveroyals]

The issue, for me, is not whether Caroline loves or loved her husband(s), nor whether she was driven by lust alone. I admire how Stefano's family has embraced Ernst into their own family community and how graciously Ernst has responded to their invitation. This is how civilized people behave. Also, judging from the pictures taken at that time, it seemed that's what William and Harry also did at Charles' and Camilla's wedding. Sometimes keeping a stiff upper lip and all that strict upbringing can leave an impression when it counts.

What I find disturbing and disappointing is that Caroline does not treat her siblings and their offspring in the same generous way, seemingly because of their poor choices of spouses and boy/girlfriends. When Caroline made her own mistakes, she was welcomed back in the bosom of her family. Later, she ensured that further deviances from her catholic upbringing (I am really hard put to find a euphemism that will not sound judgmental) would not carry negative consequences for her own children and her own image.

She is the eldest daughter in the family, the one credited with the most maturity, class, etc, etc. Keeping innocent children from her own blood family at bay because the way they came into this world hurts her delicate sensibilities is no sign of maturity in my book. Even the young hippies from the Kelly side and the black sheep of the family on the Grimaldi side, Baron Christian de Massy, with all his antics, could still find an ally in Princess Grace. I assume it is only if he had been proven to be hurting the principality that Princess Grace would have closed her door on him. But she would not have done that to children, to minors.

So again, Caroline is no saint and she could look at the warm-hearted family of her second husband , or her own mother, to find it in her heart to show a little more charity where her siblings's relationships with the other sex, and ensuing offspring are concerned.

 

[Grace]

What I find disturbing and disappointing is that Caroline does not treat her siblings and their offspring in the same generous way, seemingly because of their poor choices of spouses and boy/girlfriends. When Caroline made her own mistakes, she was welcomed back in the bosom of her family. Later, she ensured that further deviances from her catholic upbringing (I am really hard put to find a euphemism that will not sound judgmental) would not carry negative consequences for her own children and her own image.

She is the eldest daughter in the family, the one credited with the most maturity, class, etc, etc. Keeping innocent children from her own blood family at bay because the way they came into this world hurts her delicate sensibilities is no sign of maturity in my book.

Again, as these totally respectable opinions are based on what I assume are rumors and press articles (unless you know the Grimaldi personally) would it hurt to use a "if", a "maybe" instead of presenting your opinions as facts? Sources don't agree on whether Caro "keeps innocent children from her own blood family" and even if she does, we can't be sure of the reason. So presenting these interpretation of her behaviour as hard facts is in my opinion a little too assertive.
An example to explain what I mean: some people think Prince Charles and Prince Philip of England were behind Princess Diana's death, and I could present many a newspaper article to back up these opinions; but if I came here saying that they shouldn't attend public functions because they are murderers someone could tell me I'm being a little extreme. In the same way basing moral and ethical judgements on controversial and unsubstantiated facts is wrong in my opinion and what the press reports should be taken with a grain of salt most of the time and not be considered too reliable.

In a few days, without knowing what actually happened, we basically managed to assert that a person noone of us knows personally has little morals, is an hypocrite, is not a good Catholic, didn't love her husband... I'm sorry but I wouldn't venture on giving such personal judgements even on people I've actually met, let alone a person all I know about is what gossip journalists say.

As for the merit of what you said, I think Caro's and Steph's kids have such different ages, experiences and upbringing that they probably meet but might not have much to say to each other or share; with Albert's kids the issue is more whether their own father and not their aunt has a relationship with them.

 

[iloveroyals]

Sorry, Grace, I think I forgot the number one motto of this forum :"Caroline can do no wrong". Anything that might be construed in any other way is due to flawed perceptions, incomplete or incorrect information, or personal character issues. By the way, don't you love that picture I took of Caroline in 1974, which you have been using as your avatar (without ever bothering to ask me about it or thank me for it) ? Well, I do, and it's always a pleasure to see it again, even if I don't always agree with your posts.

 

[Grace]

Well your info did come from gossip mags right? If it doesn't and you have more direct info I apologize. As for the avatar I got it from the forum's thread, so it wasn't me who "took" your photo, but the person who made the avatar...I didn't even know where the pic came from. It has been changed already.

Anything that might be construed in any other way is due to flawed perceptions, incomplete or incorrect information, or personal character issues.

What I said, and what I think, is not that the info your opinion is based on IS incorrect, but that it MIGHT be incorrect, and that this hypothesis should be taken into account. If we have different information, it doesn't necesseraly mean mine is correct. And I take this into account when forming my opinion. But many people here seem very very sure of the info they have.

 

[tbhrc]

Okay I think everyone should calm down and read this renewed part of the Forum Rules, this is really important:

Zero Tolerance Policy

tbhrc
Monaco Moderator

 

[Moonmaiden23]

My problem with your posts is that you seem to give pretty harsh judements, based on what at best can be considered rumors and hear-say: what I've read gives a different account of Caroline's behaviour; it is possible that what you've read is closer to the truth than what I know, but in case what you've heard is false, shouldn't you be a little more careful with your opinions?
For example, as far as I know, Caroline and Stefano didn't meet in the summer of 1983 but had already met and dated some months before ( I know different things also about Stefano 's previous relationship and what happened in Vatican); this is just an example of how gossip press can be misleading (whether mine or your info is true is not the point), and in my opinion saying a woman who met a man, fell in love, and not only lived with him 7 years, having three kids but still remembers him dearly (Stefano's mother words) after 18 years from his death was just guided by hormones, without knowing the person and being sure of how things really went, is a tad rushed.
Plus, had it only been lust between Stefano and Caroline, I guess when she turned out pregnant Stefano (as most 23 year old guys) would have run for the hills. JMO of course.

Grace I understand what you are saying. But unless you or I or anyone on this Forum knows the Princess personally isn't every opinion we express here in some way or another based on gossip, speculation and/or hearsay?

I freely admit that my opinions are based on what I have read and observed. Not only gossip rags but biographers of the late Grace and Rainier, serious biographers like Anne Edwards.

I didn't come here simply to debunk Princess Caroline. On the contrary I think she has displayed exceptional courage at many points in what has been a glamorous but also a difficult life. The fact that I also think she is selfish and impulsive does not change that at all.

I weighed in on my opinion about Stefano-which is not an altogether positive one. I understand that many people here think that he was Prince Charming and that is their right. I am not saying it was not the Princess's right to marry the man.

Again, I thought the purpose of this topic was to weigh on on our PERSONAL opinions of Caroline and her husbands. Since people have come on here and posted positive opinions on Stefano without having to defend their morality, sense of fairness, etc...why should those of us who disagree have to do otherwise?

 

[Grace]

Grace I understand what you are saying. But unless you or I or anyone on this Forum knows the Princess personally isn't every opinion we express here in some way or another based on gossip, speculation and/or hearsay?

I freely admit that my opinions are based on what I have read and observed. Not only gossip rags but biographers of the late Grace and Rainier, serious biographers like Anne Edwards.

Again, I thought the purpose of this topic was to weigh on on our PERSONAL opinions of Caroline and her husbands. Since people have come on here and posted positive opinions on Stefano without having to defend their morality, sense of fairness, etc...why should those of us who disagree have to do otherwise?

Point taken, and I agree with you on some levels; maybe it just seems to me that when the judgements are more negative and harsh, the possibility of having the facts wrong is more relevant that when you are praising a person. It's probably a matter of perception.
Anyway, I just want to make clear that I respect and accept (not that you need my permission or anything) your opinions, that are completely legitimate. My only "request" was to take many info we get with a grain of salt, when forming an opinion on public figures and to add an "apparently" or a "maybe" when reporting said "info" in posts. That's all. Hope I've made myself clearer.