Princess Alexandra to Marry Martin Jørgensen: February 7, 2007

[Ctejnoe]

I think people are a bit nervous because we know so little about Martin Jørgensen.
About his child..He became a father at 16..iam not saying i applaud his actions (neglecting the kid) but allowances must be made for his age at the time.
And who knows what his relationship with the mother is.
But anyway, this will just lead to unjustified speculation.

 

[Heike]

<Deleted speculation/Mandy>

After her remarrying it´s easier for Joachim to remarry anytime he wants because there won´t be a weird overlapping period of time that the Danes have two princesses at the same time. Besides, I think Joachim is still thought to be the one who has destroyed their marriage by many people. If Alex "finds her happiness" at first, it´s easier for those people to accept that Joachim also deserves his own happiness.

{Removed response to deleted post - Elspeth}
Anyway I believe that Princess Alexandra has made the best decision she can make at this phase of her life.
I personally believe that she remarries more or less for making a way to Joachim and Marie.

Does anybody know the birthday of Martin?
Astrology is my hobby. I don´t think her remarriage is a correct choice for herself. But maybe Martin suits her. So does anyone have his birthdate/birthtime? Thanks in advance.

 

[Sophus]

According to BT (www.bt.dk) the danes are happy for Alexandra and Martin and wish them the best of luck. It says that this brave step will only make her more populair than now. Many danes thinks she's cool because she dares to follow her heart.

 

[ricarda]

Anyway I believe that Princess Alexandra has made the best decision she can make at this phase of her life. I personally believe that she remarries more or less for making a way to Joachim and Marie.

Oh yes, noble Alexandra sacrificing herself for Joachim and Marie.

No wonder I get overly critical at times.

I too believe that this step will make Alexandra more popular.
If she had continued the same way like last year
more and more people and newspapers would have critizised her.
Now she has given a strong signal of courage,
she has more space to develop, she will be independent from the RF
and I have the feeling we will see her more on the public stage this year.
In a way she has regained that romantic image she once had
and this makes her more attractive for the media again.

 

[pollyemma]

Oh yes, noble Alexandra sacrificing herself for Joachim and Marie.

.

I dont think the implication was that Alexandra is deliberately getting remarried to allow her ex to remarry as well. however, you cant deny that Alex's remarrying will make it much easier for Joachim and Marie to also take the plunge. that may be an unintended consequence on Alex's part but it is a consequence none the less.

 

[Heike]

According to BT (B.T. online avis nyheder, politik, sport, underholdning) the danes are happy for Alexandra and Martin and wish them the best of luck. It says that this brave step will only make her more populair than now. Many danes thinks she's cool because she dares to follow her heart.

Alexandra is a strong woman.
I respect her very much.
She has taken steps which many women dare not to.
I hope Martin will cherish their marriage.
I wish them all my best.

 

[norwegianne]

Alexandra quoted in the paper addition of B.T when asked if she was pregnant: "People also get married for other reasons than pregnancy."

 

[ysbel]

. If Alex "finds her happiness" at first, it´s easier for those people to accept that Joachim also deserves his own happiness.

Why is it so important for Alexandra to find happiness before Joachim does?

These two people are divorced; they're not sharing a life any more. They may share children and they need to come to a consensus on decisions that will affect the children's welfare, but if Joachim's and Alexandra's happiness must be dependent on each other finding happiness then they gained nothing by being divorced-they're still joined at the hip.

I imagine that it would be a private hell to be divorced from someone and being denied the advantages of a lifetime partnership with that person while still keeping all the responsibilities and disadvantages of being married to them.

I think both Joachim and Alexandra deserve better than that.

 

[ricarda]

I dont think the implication was that Alexandra is deliberately getting remarried to allow her ex to remarry as well. however, you cant deny that Alex's remarrying will make it much easier for Joachim and Marie to also take the plunge. that may be an unintended consequence on Alex's part but it is a consequence none the less.

I think this was the implication.
But yes, it will make it easier for Joachim and Marie.
On the other hand the support and approval Joachim showed in the public for his ex-wife and her new partner
by posing for photographers with them made things easier for them too, I believe.
It made everything more respectable, people possibly thought: if he accepts it why shouldn't I.
Also, they all have spent Christmas together, Se&Hor has an article about Martin and Joachim being out together.
It would not surprise me to see more pictures of that patchwork family in the future.

And to be fair to Martin, I think I read somewhere that it was the mother of his daughter
who did not want him to have contact with her.

 

[Catharina]

My first reaction, i have to admit, was 'Oh no, why?!' but after thinking about it for a while I have to say that I wish them all the happiness in the world!! Just because it might seem like a wrong move to me, doesn't mean that it is since I don't know the two people personally or if they really love eachother or not. The romantic in me likes to think they do.

This also paves the way for Joachim to remarry since the situation with ex-wife-princess, present-wife-princess would be a bit awkward and even troublesome etiquette- and otherwise.

I think Alex has made an incredible job as a princess but let's face it, did she ever really enjoy it? I hoped they would patch things up with Joachim but maybe this is for the better. Maybe he'll marry someone he'll be able to live together for the rest of his life.

 

[UserDane]

Besides, I think Joachim is still thought to be the one who has destroyed their marriage by many people. If Alex "finds her happiness" at first, it´s easier for those people to accept that Joachim also deserves his own happiness.

I do not agree that Joachim is still thought to be the one who destoyed the marriage. I think that Alexandra's quick subsequent relationship with Martin made many aware that blame should not automatically be put on Joachim just like Alexandra should not automatically be declared guiltless. That at least was what happened to me. I was never a fan of Joachim but I think he got too much blame for the divorce; for some weird reason I like him better after they have divorced.

IMO, Alexandra's decision to marry Martin is not a tactical step to remove any stones for Joachim. I think it is done for reasons relating only to Alexandra and Martin - which is as is thould be.

 

[lord_rankin]

Why is everyone so focused on placing blame in a divorce? It is naive at best to think that it was one person or the other, it takes two people to make a marriage work and two to let it fall apart. But that aside I am truly happy for Alexandra and Martin and hope that their relationship brings them both happiness and strength. She will always remain Princess Alexandra to me regardless of her new title.

 

[sm1939]

wonder if we will get to see some pictures of the wedding???

 

[qui mal y pense]

I wonder what the Queen thinks of Martin. She obviously thinks highly of Alexandra as she gave her the title, kept her in the RF and continued to invite her to Royal events.
I like Alexandra mostly because she is one of the few royals who has always kept her dignity. I hope she will be happy and most of all that they will be able to provide a stable home for the princes. I think that if Joachim marries as well it will be a very difficult time for them. Even though they are young I am sure they can appreciate the difference and permanence of a marriage vs. boyfriend/ girlfriend. I am sure that though we don't hear of it in the press there is an element of unpleasantness/ jealousy/ competition between Alex and Joachim- it would only be normal. I think that a move like this will give them all some emotional stability and help them all get on with their lives.

 

[Heike]

I do not agree that Joachim is still thought to be the one who destoyed the marriage. I think that Alexandra's quick subsequent relationship with Martin made many aware that blame should not automatically be put on Joachim just like Alexandra should not automatically be declared guiltless. That at least was what happened to me. I was never a fan of Joachim but I think he got too much blame for the divorce; for some weird reason I like him better after they have divorced.

Maybe Alexandra turned to Martin because Joachim loved young girls and drank quite much?
Princess Diana had some affairs because she wasn´t happy with the relationship between Charles and Camilla.
I agree that it´s hard to say which partie destroyed a marriage. In most cases, both sides have responsibilities.
I didn´t say that Joachim has destroyed their marriage. I said that many people still think so. At least some media gave me such impression.

 

[pollyemma]

wonder if we will get to see some pictures of the wedding???

we'll probably get to see them see them as they exit the church or registry office and I'm sure one or two official photos will be released.

btw, speaking of that...does anyone know if it will be a religious or civil ceremony?

 

[Lasse Pedersen]

Given that the reason for the divorce between HRH Prince Joachim and HH Princess Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg, has never been revealed, posting speculations regarding this is against the rules of The Royal Forums. Moreover, please bear in mind that this thread is dedicated to civilly discuss the engagement of Princess Alexandra and Mr. Jorgensen, not the The Princess’ marriage to Prince Joachim.



Enjoy your posting

/Lasse
Moderator

 

[Frothy]

Hi all,

I think it's important to say that the grounds for believing Martin neglected his birth child were provided by poster Larzen in his/her post a while back and come from reports in the Danish paper :

Here is her post with links to those reports:

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/482643-post157.html

Here's the relevant paragraph:

At 16 Martin fathered a girl with the then 15 year old Heidi Pedersen called Emilie. He refused he was the father, His friend that was in love with Pedersen, knew he was not the father but took responsibilety for Pedersen and her girl, they are not together anylonger but still share parent responsibilety for Emilie. After a paternety test established he was the father and the court ordered him to pay support, he still refused to see her, and has still not met his daughter to this day according to unnamed sources
http://ekstrabladet.dk/underholdning...icle159105.ece

The source is the tabloid paper Ekstrabladet, which apparently was first with the news of J & A's wedding. Who knows what the truth is, but these reports were published. If true, it strikes me as really bad behaviour and I do feel that Princess Alexandra could have done better.

 

[Mandy]

Several posts/comments speculating about Alexandra's being pregnant have been deleted because according to the TRF Community Rules: we do not allow unsubstantiated gossip and speculation based on hearsay. Opinions should be backed up by reference to published reports.

Moreover, Alexandra was quoted in BT as saying, "People also get married for other reasons than pregnancy."
See Norwegianne's post.

Further speculation of this nature will be deleted without notice.

Thanks for your cooperation and happy posting!

Mandy
Danish Forum Moderator

 

[Heike]

Are there any reports saying why Martin refused to see his child even it was proved that he was the biological father?
But at any rate, I don´t like this kind of behaviour at all!

 

[Frothy]

Here is another published report that mentions the daughter of the groom to be

..::: SE og HØR | www.seoghoer.dk :::..

To my mind looking at the way a child is treated is very important when deciding on the parent as a life partner. Hence my lack of enthusaism for the Princess's choice.

 

[norwegianne]

Here is another published report that mentions the daughter of the groom to be

..::: SE og HØR | www.seoghoer.dk :::..

To my mind looking at the way a child is treated is very important when deciding on the parent as a life partner. Hence my lack of enthusaism for the Princess's choice.

Well, as far as I can read from it, the mother of the child doesn't want him to have contact with the child, as the girl has someone in her life that she thinks of as a father and she doesn't want to change that.

 

[Zonk]

Well...that kind of changes things doesn't it.

Of course, he could sue for visitation...but then he might be accused of just thinking of himself. Doesn't seem to be any winners here.

Alexandra appears to be a good mother...I am sure she wouldn't just bring anyone around her children.

 

[Frothy]

What does the Danish actually say.... that only changes things if the mother never wanted him to have visitation. If she is saying that now Emilie is 12, she has bonded with another, that would not change the allegations linked to in Larzen's post, the tabloid allegations, that Martin refused to pay child support and refused to see his infant daughter.

It wouldn't change anything about his alleged behaviour.

I am sure that if Princess Alexandra presses ahead and marries this man, the story of how he treated his little girl will be much written of in the Danish media so I daresay eventually facts will emerge.

Edit to add a couple more stories

..::: SE og HØR | www.seoghoer.dk :::..

and this

EXPRESSEN.SE/Kvällsposten: Martin - pappa för prinsessans barn

I should say it's not that I think Alexandra would in any way let Martin mistreat the princes, I just think that his behaviour to little Emily would kind of speak for itself. Also, I read he is 14 years younger than the Princess and I do not think that is a recipe for happiness...of course an engagement is not a marriage, perhaps she will call it off.

 

[Zonk]

Honestly...I am not sure all the facts will ever be known about Martin and his daughter. The fact remains that this is a situation that involves private citizens...and its really no one's business but theirs.

I am pretty sure that everyone will continue to make their own judgements based on what facts they know or choose to believe.

There are success stories of people with different age differences....I wouldn't write them off just yet.

 

[Henri M.]

Maybe she will continue to receive the grant to serve as an "unofficial" ambassador for Denmark to other countries?

Royals are no ambassadors, also not 'unofficial'. Danmark has a perfectly equipped diplomatic service with embassies and consulates in almost all countries of the world.

They really do not need the former wife from the youngest son of the head of state.

Royals are... royals. Members of a historic family which delivers the country's head of state via the principle of hereditary succession, no more, no less.

 

[Frothy]

I can't quite agree Zonk. There are objective standards of behaviour. To me, what is at issue here is "are the published reports of Martin's behaviour truthful". If it is untrue, as the press alleges, that he refused to pay child support or visit his little girl once he was proven to be her biological father, then he is being wrongly smeared in a desperate effort to sell papers.

But if that is true, nothing can excuse it. He had a duty to pay support and IMO also a duty to see his flesh and blood.

As to the age difference, of course it may work out - but May-December romances usually have the woman in the part of May!

I am pretty sorry to see Alexandra surrender the "Her Highness" in this particular cause, and I do hope Erksbladet got it wrong, because to me a man who dodges child support is not a worthy husband for any woman.

 

[Larzen]

Alright, let's get one thing straight here:

1.) There is no concrete evidence that Princess Alexandra was seeing Martin while she was still married to Prince Joachim.

Actually there is, there exists a picture of them at a cooking clas taken in october 2003 with Martins mother and Alexandras then lady in waiting Christine Lyng
http://ekstrabladet.dk/archive/00175/No_name_175494d.jpg
Ekstra Bladet

According to Ove Ullerup at the court Alexandra owns all her jewels, also her tiara she got from Margrethe for her wedding, and she can sell them if she is so inclined, she will also keep all her orders and decorations until her death as they are personal
Ekstra Bladet

Alexandra is minimizing her staff, one nanny is beeing let go as well as her secretary Christine Lyng will quit, but it is not decided when.
Christine Lyng forlader Alexandra ... Billed-Bladet: Danmarks Royale Ugeblad...

 

[Zonk]

If he has declined to pay child support and see his child than I agree that is quite ungentleman like behavior. But again...we don't know all the facts.

If it is alleged that the mother doesn't want him to have a relationship with the child...then what is he supposed to do? Take her to court and force the daughter to have a relationship with him. Even though she apparently has a father figure? How do we know that he is really not paying any type of support at all?

Again, I don't know ALL the facts nor do I think that we will know all of them.

Actually there is, there exists a picture of them at a cooking clas taken in october 2003 with Martins mother and Alexandras then lady in waiting Christine Lyng
http://ekstrabladet.dk/archive/00175/No_name_175494d.jpg
Ekstra Bladet

According to Ove Ullerup at the court Alexandra owns all her jewels, also her tiara she got from Margrethe for her wedding, and she can sell them if she is so inclined, she will also keep all her orders and decorations until her death as they are personal
Ekstra Bladet

Alexandra is minimizing her staff, one nanny is beeing let go as well as her secretary Christine Lyng will quit, but it is not decided when.
Christine Lyng forlader Alexandra ... Billed-Bladet: Danmarks Royale Ugeblad...

Having a picture taken years ago doesn't quite say I am having a relationship. It just means they were friends who socialized.

 

[UserDane]

According to Ove Ullerup at the court Alexandra owns all her jewels, also her tiara she got from Margrethe for her wedding, and she can sell them if she is so inclined, she will also keep all her orders and decorations until her death as they are personal
Ekstra Bladet

I must admit I don't understand if she is entitled to sell the tiara if she wants to; wasn't it the one given to QMII by her grandparents? I could understand it if there were provisions that it must be kept in the family line, via Nikolai or Felix. It's not as if the DRF is swimming in tiaras; hopefully they have taken
some non-published measures to ensure that it is not sold off.