Princely House of Thurn und Taxis 1 (February 2004 - July 2008)

[Stefan]

There are no Titles in germany since 1919. The titles became a part of the Surname. for example Carl, Herzog von Württemberg. Legally when in a Princely Family like the Thurn and Taxis the Fürst dies there is no right to change the Name of the Erbprinz to Fürst but mostly it is recognmized if the Titles are in use and known by in the Area the live.

 

[kelly9480]

After Weimar all germans were equal in the eyes of the law. If Johannes had left his fortune in state (without a will) it probably would have had no choice but to follow partible inheritance (I do not know for a fact if germany does follow this system if someone dies in state).

I think you mean "intestate", not in state. The TnT fortune is tied up in trusts and agreements that likely predate Johannes' passing (and inheritance, for that matter). If the estate is entailed to the next head of the house, it wouldn't matter whether Johannes had a will or not.

Or personally, if I had no son I would find it hard to pass a huge inheritance on to a "distant stranger" to follow tradition of an instrument of government that had lapsed 100 years ago rather than my daughters. An explaination or reference of why german nobility follows this practice, or if they have been granted some special dispensation from the republic would be appreciated. Maybe it is just tradition, suprised no one has broke with it though.

It is tradition, and most, if not all, the German families have entailed their assets, or placed them in a trust for the use of the head of the house. Johannes probably couldn't have handed it to his daughters without facing angry relatives. And there's an understanding that the head of the house should be able to live as the head of the house. Running the large estates, managing the castles, etc, is a time-consuming job, which is why you see some instances of elder sons resigning their rights to the headship in favor of younger sons who are willing to do the job.

Also, along the same thought, the princess/prince title. Why are they "entitled to use the title" was that part of being mediatized? Is there some instrument that allows them to from the government?

Germany, unlike Austria, allowed titles to be made into surnames. Germany allows royals to change their surnames as their titles change. For example, in Germany, an Erbprinz (Hereditary Prince) would be allowed to change his name to Herzog (Duke, and presumably head of the house), once he inherited. In Austria, however, the surname-title wouldn't exist at all (Archduke Otto of Austria is simply Otto Habsburg), and no name changes would be allowed, or would be very difficult.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

There are no Titles in germany since 1919. The titles became a part of the Surname. for example Carl, Herzog von Württemberg. Legally when in a Princely Family like the Thurn and Taxis the Fürst dies there is no right t ochange the Name of the Erbprinz to Fürst but mostly it is recognmized if the Titles are in use band known by in the Area the live.

There had been a legal case when bureaucracy did not allow an hereditary prince to change his name to "Fuerst" after his father's death. it went, IIRC, up to the highest court of Germany and was resolved that this kind of name change is based on a historical custom, which makes it into the required "Wichtiger Grund" (Important reason) for a name change in Germany. Thus, it is legal to change your name when you become the head of your family.

 

[Prince of Chota]

Gloria is something like Madonna. She is constantly re-inventing herself. After her husband died, she shed her bad girl image and devoted herself to her children. She also donated (sold?) many of her historically important jewels to France.

She did sell many of the jewels (but also kept quite a few). To my knowledge, she donated the Empress Eugenie Pearl tiara to France (where it now resides).

 

[kelly9480]

The Eugenie tiara was sold to France, IIRC, for 6 million (I think francs). She didn't donate any of the jewels.

 

[Prince of Chota]

The Eugenie tiara was sold to France, IIRC, for 6 million (I think francs). She didn't donate any of the jewels.

Thanks, I actually wasn't sure, although I have seen one source that used the word "gave" (I suppose it depends on one's interpretation--France can certainly afford it, and did sell it in the first place--it is only fair that they should buy it back).

Most of what was sold was relatively small, although several of the larger tiaras (those seldom used by Fuerstin Gloria) were sold, along with several large necklaces and brooches. It's amazing what is left, though. And I don't think she got rid of that awful emerald, ruby, and diamond choker that everyone hates so much (at least on the worst royal jewels thread).

 

[Prince of Chota]

But there is no direct blood line connecting Gloria and the Bavarians.

Well, let us not be hasty. It is easily possible to find a link between all royal and noble families, particularly those in the former HRE. The distinction is that it is not a recent link, and certainly not one that would merit saying that she is a "relative" (implying a fairly close tie) to the younger Wittelsbachs (the Bavarian Ducal-Royal family).

 

[--_Teresa_--]

Hey,
here in Regensburg, was last week a benefit circus-gala, and of course withe the Thurn und Taxis
Here you can see some pictures from the show

http://www.mittelbayerische.de/SID_5ae823b765eacfdc3822640873d521e0/nachrichten/bildergalerie/index.shtml?action=bild&bg=530&bild=54

http://www.mittelbayerische.de/SID_5ae823b765eacfdc3822640873d521e0/nachrichten/bildergalerie/index.shtml?action=bild&bg=530&bild=132

http://www.mittelbayerische.de/SID_...lerie/index.shtml?action=bild&bg=530&bild=180

The two had really fun
I think Gloria was looking very good, and Albert with his dogs was really cute
Maria Theresia and Elisabeth were sitting in the audience. Both cute and very beautiful
The two have a very close relationship to her mother
And all of them very nice and natural persons...

 

[tanya]

i heard a rumour that the Thurn und taxis family is related to the Orleans family is that true? LIke maybe cousins or something?

 

[Next Star]

Princess Gloria of Thurn and Taxis had the nickname Dynomite or Tnt back in younger years because of her wild and party side but since now she is a responsible and loving mother . And it is true for son Albert only being 23 yrs.old he is the youngest billionaire in the world so much money and so young I wonder what does someone that young do with a heavy load of cash.

 

[Warren]

And it is true for son Albert only being 23 yrs.old he is the youngest billionaire in the world so much money and so young I wonder what does someone that young do with a heavy load of cash.

The family wealth is not in cash, it is in assets such as property, forests, businesses, investments etc.
I would imagine that Princess Gloria and her financial advisers still retain a strong hand in the operation of the family patrimony.

 

[Next Star]

Okay their wealth is not in cash but let's look at the facts were talking about a 23 yr.old man Albert of Thurns and Taxis he has more money than some people make in their whole lifetimes.

The family wealth is not in cash, it is in assets such as property, forests, businesses, investments etc.
I would imagine that Princess Gloria and her financial advisers still retain a strong hand in the operation of the family patrimony.

 

[Lalla Meriem]

Okay their wealth is not in cash but let's look at the facts were talking about a 23 yr.old man Albert of Thurns and Taxis he has more money than some people make in their whole lifetimes.

And, one assumes more debt than most aquire in their lives. Remember his mother wasn't selling off centuries old family artifacts to get more money she was selling them to pay the massive tax debt owed on the inherited property and there wasn't enough cash sitting around to cover it.

The Palace in Regensburg still operates in the red each year. Princess Gloria said in an interview from her home in Kenya that she still hasn't managed to have the operatations even cover running costs yet. Though, it is her goal.

I think it's fair to say he has a massive collection of assests that aren't liquid, but that are incredibly valuable.

 

[Next Star]

That still does not change being Albert is the youngest billionaire in the world. He was one of the persons on the list of the richest people in the world Forbes' magazine does that list every year And what I said is true rather you like it or not period.

 

[Lalla Meriem]

I am well aware that The Prince of Thurn and Taxis is the youngest billionaire in the world and has been since 1990. While you are right in that most people cannot imagine the wealth he has I am also correct in that I doubt most people could imagine owing the same portion of their own assests as Albert did owe and continues to owe in inheritance taxes and annual taxes. I doubt Albert has even half a billion in liquid assests. While that is more than any ordinary person could ever dream of having Albert isn't ordinary and has 7 rather grand estates to keep up and more than a few family members. He may have more money than you or I have but he has more financle demands than the average person. Each year his assests dewindle due to taxes, massive upkeep demands, and debts.

 

[Vanesa]

I do not really understand why these rich people never pays their taxes as they must do it. Poor people is always worried for they wants to pay them and sometimes they cannot (for they have not the money), and most of the rich wouldn't pay their taxes when they have money enough to pay their little caprices. This is not fair. Communism and other evil doctrines will not gain so much sympathy from some people if nobility and rich people will accomplish their duties as they must to.

Vanesa.

 

[Lalla Meriem]

I dunno about rich people in general, but Albert has/is paying his tax debt. When his father died he would have been given a certain amount of time to pay the debt after the estate was acessed.

Gloria quickly started auctioning off artifacts to pay off the debt because there wasn't enough cash to pay off the massive debt. The sad thing is that if you inherit an 3 million dollar tiara you have to pay taxes on it as if it were 3 million dollars in income.

Gloria also made several deals where the state was given possession of certain items (paintings,ect..) in exchange for certain relief from that portion of tax debt. Had his father not have died so suddenly he would have take care to prepare his estate and probably from a trust that would have reduced the debt.

The tax debt was massive and I mean massive like more than 88 million, I believe.

Many of the world's great historical fortunes have been taxed away in successive generations. And, each year any interest earned on savings, investments, or income is also taxed.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

The sad thing is that if you inherit an 3 million dollar tiara you have to pay taxes on it as if it were 3 million dollars in income.

It's not so easy when it comes to german inheritance tax. There is different percentages of taxes on different things, eg. an estate is differently taxed from jewelery etc. I just read an article that our constitutional court decided that this system is not valid... Now they have to look out for a new one.

 

[leomichel]

i heard a rumour that the Thurn und taxis family is related to the Orleans family is that true? LIke maybe cousins or something?

It's not a rumour, it's a fact. The current prince, as were his father and the previous generation before him, are all descended from princess Clementine of Orléans, who was Louis-Philippe's yougest daughter. She married prince Augustus of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (Kohary branch), and their grand-daughter, archduchess Margarethe of Austria (1870-1955), king Louis-Philippe's great-grand-daughter, married Albrecht, 8th Fürst von Thurn-und-Taxis (empress Elisabeth's nephew). The current prince is their great-grandson.

See: Princess Marie Clementine Caroline Leopoldine Clotilde d'Orléans

But other line of the family(the junior ones) have no direct connection to the Orléans.

 

[magnik]

One more relationships tree:
Relationship

 

[Lalla Meriem]

It's not so easy when it comes to german inheritance tax. There is different percentages of taxes on different things, eg. an estate is differently taxed from jewelery etc. I just read an article that our constitutional court decided that this system is not valid... Now they have to look out for a new one.

Those jewels and the artwork are part of the historical estate.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Those jewels and the artwork are part of the historical estate.

Yes, but estates (that's buildings and the land they are on it, farming land, woods etc.) so far have only been taxed at 10% of their estimated value while jewelery or cash or business shares eg are taxed on other percentages - depends on what it actually is. But now our highest court said that it's unfair that way and the government will have to introduce a new law till the end of 2008.

In fact that could be the end of the large estates still owned by some noble families (as well as several farms) as the 10% was introduced to protect the heirs of land they used as their business basis - if land in future is taxed like cash, then the owners won't be able to earn their living plus the taxes within one generation. That's a difficult situation for all concerned, but especially for the noble families who are still in possession of large estates or castles/palaces as they can't make the necessary interest rates from possessions like that.

And we don't have an institution like The National Trust who takes over such properties.... There's going to be some serious problem in the future.

 

[Next Star]

Forber's maganize has relelased their list of the 2007 world's billionaires'. Prince Albert of Thurns Und Taxis is ranked on the list at 488 and is worth 2 billion.He had been on the list at the age of 8 but not officially inherit his money until he turned 18 in June of 2001. He still the world's youngest billionaire.

 

[yivon]

Where exactly are they staying? Which address shall I write to them?
Do they have a website?

 

[Stefan]

Where exactly are they staying? Which address shall I write to them?
Do they have a website?

This is their website
Thurn und Taxis Regensburg

The best will be to write to Emmeram Castle, Regensburg

 

[yivon]

Thanks Stefan..I will check out the site for the address!
Cheers!

 

[tbhrc]

REGENSBURG, GERMANY - JUNE 28: Countess Gloria von Thurn und Taxis (C), Guenter Alt (L) and Otto Katzameier perform on stage during the rehearsal of the operetta "Weisses Roessl" prior to the Thurn und Taxis castle festival on June 28, 2007 in Regensburg, Germany.

Gallery


REGENSBURG, GERMANY - JUNE 29: (L-R) Elisabeth von Thurn und Taxis, Maria Theresia von Thurn und Taxis and Albert von Thurn und Taxis attend the operetta 'Weisses Roessl' at the Thurn und Taxis castle festival on June 29, 2007, in Regensburg, Germany.

Gallery

 

[Warren]

Here are some pictures from the galleries kindly provided by tbhrc in the post immediately above.

The Thurn und Taxis Family, June 2007​

Princess Gloria and Fürst Albert​

Albert and his favourite sister, Princess Maria Theresia​

Princess Gloria and her daughters Princess Elisabeth and Princess Maria Theresia​

Princess Gloria and her mother Countess Beatrix von Schönburg-Glauchau​

The Thurn und Taxis Family​

o

 

[tbhrc]

25-07-2007 German princess Gloria von Thurn und Taxis and her daughters Elisabeth (R) and Maria Theresia (L) arrive for the opening of this year's Bayreuth Wagner opera festival outside the so-called Gruener Huegel (Green Hill) opera house in Bayreuth

http://www.ppe-agency.com/500px/Jul2007/07072501.jpg
http://www.ppe-agency.com/500px/Jul2007/07072502.jpg

 

[iceflower]

Pics 18.9.+8.10.2007

1. Gloria of Thurn and Taxis during the opening of the exhibition "With Gloss
and Gloria! Coaches of the Counts of Thurn and Taxis", in the "Wagenburg"
corral at castle Schoenbrunn in Vienna, Austria, 18 Sep 2007

** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 **

2. Countess Gloria von Thurn und Taxis arrives to a farewell reception
for Bavaria's outgoing State Governor Edmund Stoiber at Munich Royal
Residence on October 8, 2007, in Munich, Germany

** Pic **