Prince William and Catherine Middleton Possible Titles

[Mirabel]

What an awful thing to say about a much loved mother. Her two girls adore her and to wish that they would be without their mother is just plain nasty - no matter what you think of Sarah she is a mother and a mother who is loved by her daughters.

I can understand that, but, apart from the girls, I honestly think the rest of the BRF would be much better off to disengage completely from Sarah.
She's simply not to be trusted not to embarrass them, and why must they continue to invite her to family events, etc.?
Yes, I can see inviting her to events for her daughters, but the rest of the family should steer clear.

When Infanta Elena divorced her husband, the Spanish Royals made it clear that he was no longer one of the family and not to be treated as such. Nor, as someone pointed out, is Mark Phillips always on hand.
Why should the situation be different for Sarah?

 

[Zonk]

Let's get back on topic.

This thread isn't about Sarah, her daughters or her relationship with them or the British Royal Family. Its about a Title for William, Catherine and their family.

Any additional posts will be deleted without notice.

 

[Esmerelda]

And also the line of suession as the have the sons of Lord and lady Nochiolas Windsor in it.

Were the sons baptized Catholic? If not, they would still be in the line of succession even though Nicolas is not because of his marriage.

Titles- I think the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge would be nice. It would be interesting to see what happens with the children if they are born while the Queen is alive. If the firstborn is a boy, he'll be HRH as I understand but if they change the succession to equal primogeniture and the firstborn is a daughter, would she be HRH? What about a younger brother?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Changing the line of succession would presumably result in the issuing of new LPs to cover such an eventuality - just as George VI issued new LPs in November 1948 to ensure that Charles was born as HRH Prince rather then Lord Charles Mountbatten, Earl of Merioneth (as a courtesy title). The King wouldn't have wanted his grandson and future King born with titles from his father rather than through his mother's position as heiress presumptive to the throne.

 

[Warren]

Discussion of the dynastic position of Albert and Leopold Windsor has been moved to the Act of Settlement and Line of Succession thread.

 

[EllieCat]

A source said: ‘William wants to stay Prince William and Kate likes the idea of being Princess Catherine. They think being duke and duchess ages them by 30 years. They may in the end choose not to have a title.’
Technically, if that is the case, Kate would be known as HRH Princess William of Wales or Princess Catherine of Wales.
A spokesman for the Prince said: ‘We are not giving any guidance on titles. It will be announced on the day.’

that's from the Daily Mail Royal wedding: Prince William and Kate Middleton planning Scilly Isles honeymoon | Mail Online

Surely William must know his wife can't be called Princess Catherine the way that English titles are presently set up. She should be Princess William. Although i don't like it. I'd prefer Princess Catherine. The public and the press are going to get it wrong anyway, like 'Princess Diana'. The main princesses in Europe are called by their first names by the press (Princesses Mary, Maxima, Marie etc.). Maybe it's time for the British to follow suit. I understand the Queen can supply any title she likes; e.g. Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester. Maybe it could be 'Princess Catherine' informally, and 'Princess William' formally, though I do understand she can't be Princess Catherine because she isn't a Princess in her own right.

 

[Roslyn]

I think it would be nice for the woman's given name to be incorporated into her title so her identity is not completely lost once she's married. The tradition of a married woman being known as Mrs Husband's-First-Name Smith rather than Mrs (or Ms) Her-Own-Name Smith is changing and I think the trend should be extended to Royalty. However there would be some issues to sort out, primarily finding a way to distinguish the born-royal women from those who merely married in.

Kate could be made HRH Princess Catherine of Wales, to apply for as long as William is Prince William of Wales and provided they do not divorce in that period. However if she's going to get to be a princess, the other wives of HRHs should get that honour too, however I am sure there are a few people who would not be happy for Princess Michael to become HRH Princess Marie Christine of Kent because that would make her sound to be on par with HRH Princess Alexandra of Kent.

Maybe the solution is for Kate to become HRH Princess Catherine, Princess William of Wales, or HRH Princess Catherine, Duchess of (whatever), as the case may be. People are going to call her Princess Catherine anyway and, if nothing else, formalising it would save us, here, the effort of repeatedly pointing out that it's not ber correct title. Similarly, Marie Christine could become HRH Princess Marie Christine, Princess Michael of Kent, and Sophie could become HRH Princess Sophie, Countess of Wessex.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Or .... why should a woman get to take on her husband's titles etc when a man can't do the same thing?

Leave her as Catherine Middleton and then she would be on a par with the future husband's of Beatrice and Eugenie (who can't make their husband's princes automatically).

If women truly want equality then there is a way - don't take on titles etc unless the men are able to do the same thing.

 

[Roslyn]

Why? Property law. At common law a woman became her husband's property, like a cow, on marriage. A man owned his wife and she took his name and titles because they were legally the one person; she had no identity of her own. A man did not become the property of the woman, so he didn't take on her name or titles, etc. Old habits die hard.

I would be absolutely delighted if Kate remained Ms Catherine Middleton on marriage, but I can't imagine someone who was inclined to keep her own name would be marrying the future head of an institution founded on the basic premise that some people are intrinsically better and more worthy and more entitled than others, nor would she be likely to have been invited to do so.

 

[EllieCat]

If women truly want equality then there is a way - don't take on titles etc unless the men are able to do the same thing.

Well, there's HRH Prince Daniel of Sweden... and HRH PRince Henrik of Denmark...

 

[EllieCat]

I would be absolutely delighted if Kate remained Ms Catherine Middleton on marriage

Royalty wouldn't be royalty unless they had titles. No titles, no royalty, no Royal Forums!

 

[Princess Robijn]

If women truly want equality then there is a way - don't take on titles etc unless the men are able to do the same thing.

In this case, if HRH Princess Catherine was marrying William Middleton (and if Prince Harry was Princess ...) William would have received a title, as Prince Phillip was made the Duke of Edinburgh when he married the Queen. (I realise he was born a Prince, but at that time he wasn't any more.)

PR

 

[KittyAtlanta]

I do believe KM will be happy to be Princess William.

 

[Susanna Wynne]

RE: Camilla's title if Charles predeceased the Queen

Wouldn't she be the Dowager Duchess of Cornwall, and in actuality, the Dowager Princess of Wales?

In that case, could William be the Duke of Cornwall and Kate the Duchess of Cornwall? Let us hope that this is never an issue...

 

[Lumutqueen]

Catherine would be THE of both those titles, and Camilla would be without the, THE.

 

[Stefan]

Wouldn't she be the Dowager Duchess of Cornwall, and in actuality, the Dowager Princess of Wales?

In that case, could William be the Duke of Cornwall and Kate the Duchess of Cornwall? Let us hope that this is never an issue...

No william would not be the Duke of Cornwall as he would not be oldest son of the monarch.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I take it the next Duke of Cornwall would be William's eldest son, assuming that there's still male primogeniture. Could the Queen grant the Duke of Cornwall title to William after it goes back to the Crown?

No william would not be the Duke of Cornwall as he would not be oldest son of the monarch.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Well, there's HRH Prince Daniel of Sweden... and HRH PRince Henrik of Denmark...

But those titles had to be created for them - they weren't automatic on marriage. That is my point.

For a woman who has a title she doesn't automatically confer that status on her husband but a man with a title does. That is discrimination ladies.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I take it the next Duke of Cornwall would be William's eldest son, assuming that there's still male primogeniture. Could the Queen grant the Duke of Cornwall title to William after it goes back to the Crown?

No - the LPs establishing the Duke of Cornwall title state that the holder must be both the eldest son of the monarch AND the heir apparent to the throne.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Whatever title William and Catherine are given will revert back to "the crown" when Princes Charles become King, as William and Kate will then automatically become Duke & Duchess of Cornwall at that point.

No it won't.

If William is created Duke of Hogwarts then he will remain Duke of Hogwarts until he becomes King.

If Charles becomes King then William will be known as The Duke of Cornwall and Hogwarts, until Charles creates William Prince of Wales at which point he would add that title as well.

George V was created Duke of York. In 1901 he became Duke of Cornwall on the death of his grandmother and from January to November that year was officially known as The Duke of Cornwall and York and in that capacity opened the first Australian parliament.

The title Duke of York didn't merge with the crown until 1910 when George V became King.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Wouldn't she be the Dowager Duchess of Cornwall, and in actuality, the Dowager Princess of Wales?

In that case, could William be the Duke of Cornwall and Kate the Duchess of Cornwall? Let us hope that this is never an issue...

As Charles has predeceased the Queen in this scenario then Camilla would remain as The Duchess of Cornwall as William couldn't become Duke of Cornwall. The Queen could create him Prince of Wales however - as happened with George III. George III was the grandson of George II but was never Duke of Cornwall as he was never the eldest son of the monarch but he was able to be created Prince of Wales.

Duke of Cornwall has two requirements - eldest son of the monarch AND heir apparent to the throne - Charles fulfills both requirements. William, in the present reign, could only fulfil one and thus could never hold the title. However, on the Queen's passing he will fulfil both requirements and thus will become Duke of Cornwall. The Duke of Rothesay title has the same requirements in Scotland.

 

[windsorgirl]

No - the LPs establishing the Duke of Cornwall title state that the holder must be both the eldest son of the monarch AND the heir apparent to the throne.

What about the $$$ or £££ generated by the Duchy of Cornwall? Would the money go to the Queen or be held in Trust for a future Duke of Cornwall? That would be a bigger deal to me (were I in William's position) than the title itself! Also, I believe we discussed before that HM can override LPs at her pleasure, can't she?

 

[Roslyn]

For a woman who has a title she doesn't automatically confer that status on her husband but a man with a title does. That is discrimination ladies.

Of course it is. It's blatant discrimination.

 

[FasterB]

If Charles becomes King then William will be known as The Duke of Cornwall and Hogwarts

Oh, he will join the Harry Potter universe?

 

[Mermaid1962]

True. I hadn't thought of that.

What about the $$$ or £££ generated by the Duchy of Cornwall?

 

[Iluvbertie]

What about the $$$ or £££ generated by the Duchy of Cornwall? Would the money go to the Queen or be held in Trust for a future Duke of Cornwall? That would be a bigger deal to me (were I in William's position) than the title itself! Also, I believe we discussed before that HM can override LPs at her pleasure, can't she?

The Civil List is reduced by the amount of the income of the Duchy as the income of the Duchy goes to the Crown. Duchy of Cornwall - FAQ's - The Official Website for the Duchy of Cornwall

 

[Iluvbertie]

Oh, he will join the Harry Potter universe?

I started saying 'Hogwarts' because I didn't want to use a title that had already come into use and I am a HP fan.

 

[EllieCat]

I started saying 'Hogwarts' because I didn't want to use a title that had already come into use and I am a HP fan.

Me too.

And since no one can agree on what Dukedom William might have bestowed on him (Clarence, Cambridge etc), then The Duke of Hogwarts is as good as any!

 

[Iluvbertie]

Me too.

And since no one can agree on what Dukedom William might have bestowed on him (Clarence, Cambridge etc), then The Duke of Hogwarts is as good as any!

Now all I need to do is come up with the Earldom and the Barony - e.g. Earl of Godric's Hollow and Baron of Diagon Alley.

Should I sent this suggestion to William and the Queen - Duke of Hogwarts, Earl of Godric's Hollow and Baron of Diagon Alley?

 

[EllieCat]

Should I sent this suggestion to William and the Queen - Duke of Hogwarts, Earl of Godric's Hollow and Baron of Diagon Alley?

you might get a "we are not amused"...

But I am!