Prince Pedro, Duke of Calabria, and the House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies: Nov. 2015-

[MAfan]

Welcome to the thread about
H.R.H. Prince Pedro of Bourbon-Two Sicilies, Duke of Calabria,
and the Royal House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies.

This thread is to discuss Prince Pedro, Duke of Calabria, and the Royal House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies, commencing from November 2015.
​

The thread to discuss the late Infante Carlos, Duke of Calabria (1938-2015) and previous news about the House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies can be found here.
​

 

[lula]

Pedro de Borbon Dos Sicilias has signed a document assuming the titles of Duke of Calabria and Count of Caserta. His son Jaime, is the new Duke of Noto.

http://www.constantinianorder.org/images/ban257301a54b00d6b111.jpg
http://www.constantinianorder.org/images/ban257301a54b00d6b112.jpg

Signing the document

http://www.constantinianorder.org/images/im257301a54b0115d1b.jpg

Photo of his family

http://www.constantinianorder.org/images/im257301a54b00d2810.jpg

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Well, I can sign a document myself too, of course. Anyway, in the end he will be the Duke of Calabria and head of the Royal House of the Two Sicilies anyway as "the other side" has no sons.

 

[maria-olivia]

I have 2 questions :

Is the new Duke of Calabria Infant of Spain ?

There are 3 Generations of Duchesses of Calabria , Alice , Anne and Sofia. How are they styled, First Dowager, Second Dowager and actual Duchess of Calabria ???

 

[Charlotte_Aster]

The Duke of Calabria is a Grandee of Spain, but not an Infante.
AFAIK the dowagers are referred to as Infanta Alicia, the Dowager Duchess (or Alicia de Borbon) and Princess Anne, the Dowager Duchess (Ana de Orleans).

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_de_Orleans
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicia_de_Borbón

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I have 2 questions :

Is the new Duke of Calabria Infant of Spain ?

There are 3 Generations of Duchesses of Calabria , Alice , Anne and Sofia. How are they styled, First Dowager, Second Dowager and actual Duchess of Calabria ???

The new Duke of Calabria is no Infante de España, as his father's title was ad personam. As son of an Infante, the new Duke can be styled as a Grande de España but that will never happen as his own style HRH The Duke of Calabria is always superior to that of a Grande.

Alicia, Duquesa viuda de Calabria
Su Alteza Real la princesa Alicia de Borbón-Parma y Austria-Lorena, Duquesa viuda de Calabria, Condesa viuda de Caserta, princesa de Borbón-Dos Sicilias, Infanta de España

Ana, Duquesa viuda de Calabria
Su Alteza Real la princesa Ana de Orleans y Orleans-Braganza, Duquesa viuda de Calabria, Condesa viuda de Caserta, princesa de Borbón-Dos Sicilias, Infanta de España

La Duquesa de Calabria
Su Alteza Real Doña Sofía Landaluce y Melgarejo, Duquesa de Calabria, Condesa de Caserta, princesa de Borbón-Dos Sicilias

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Thanks for the photos lula. I have never seen a photo of the new Duke of Calabria's children before and it looks as if this photo was taken at Princess María's christening. Princess Sofía and Princess Blanca are really sweet.

Well, I can sign a document myself too, of course. Anyway, in the end he will be the Duke of Calabria and head of the Royal House of the Two Sicilies anyway as "the other side" has no sons.

Prince Carlo has nephews, though the oldest of his nephews (Nicholas Cochin) is untitled, so I don't think he would be eligible to be the opposite claimant.

 

[maria-olivia]

Princess Anne d' Orleans was never Infanta of Spain.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Princess Anne d' Orleans was never Infanta of Spain.

That's right. According to Wikipedia she is a Grandee of Spain but not an Infanta. She's was born a Princess d'Orléans and when she married Infante Carlos she became a Princess of Bourbon-Two Sicilies.

 

[MAfan]

Prince Carlo has nephews, though the oldest of his nephews (Nicholas Cochin) is untitled, so I don't think he would be eligible to be the opposite claimant.

The succession in the House of Bourbon-Two Sicilies follows the salic law, so there is no way for the nephews of the Duke of Castro to succeed him.
Instead, currently his successor is Prince Antoine, the eldest son of the late Prince Gabriele (himself the youngest brother of both Prince Carlo, the grandfather of Infante Carlos, and of Prince Ranieri, the grandfather of the Duke of Castro). However Prince Antoine is 86, so it is unlikely that he will survive the Duke of Castro. After Prince Antoine, the next in line is his son Prince Franz (born in 1960) who is in turn followed by his own son Antoine (born in 2003).

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Princess Anne d' Orleans was never Infanta of Spain.

Is the spouse of an Infante not an Infanta, like the spouse of a King is a Queen, the spouse of a Prince is a Princess, the spouse of a Duke is a Duchess?

 

[Stefan]

Is the spouse of an Infante not an Infanta, like the spouse of a King is a Queen, the spouse of a Prince is a Princess, the spouse of a Duke is a Duchess?

This was the case earlier. That an spouse to an Infante in an equal marriage was Infanta. But since the Royal Decree about the Royal titles in 1987 the title Infante/Infanta is poersonakl. And in 1994 the Itle was given to the late Duke of Calabria but not to his wife. Therefore she was never an infanta like her mohter-in-law.

 

[An Ard Ri]

That's right. According to Wikipedia she is a Grandee of Spain but not an Infanta. She's was born a Princess d'Orléans and when she married Infante Carlos she became a Princess of Bourbon-Two Sicilies.

When Princess Anne married Prince Carlos he wasn't an Infante of Spain,that royal title wasn't bestowed on him until 1994.

 

[An Ard Ri]

This was the case earlier. That an spouse to an Infante in an equal marriage was Infanta. But since the Royal Decree about the Royal titles in 1987 the title Infante/Infanta is poersonakl. And in 1994 the Itle was given to the late Duke of Calabria but not to his wife. Therefore she was never an infanta like her mohter-in-law.

Thanks Stefan for the explanation that makes sense!

 

[Marengo]

I believe it is said that one of the sisters of king Juan Carlos (Infanta Pilar IIRC) objected to Princess Anne being made an infanta too while her husband was not made an infante.

 

[Stefan]

I believe it is said that one of the sisters of king Juan Carlos (Infanta Pilar IIRC) objected to Princess Anne being made an infanta too while her husband was not made an infante.

It should have been made clear to her that the title was only given to spouses who where equal under the Pragamtic Decree from King Carlos III.
But indeed in the past the Title of Infante was sometimes also given tot the equal husbands of Infantas.

 

[MAfan]

I believe it is said that one of the sisters of king Juan Carlos (Infanta Pilar IIRC) objected to Princess Anne being made an infanta too while her husband was not made an infante.

I didn't know that detail; however, it would make more sense if it was Infanta Margarita to object, since in 1994 she was the one to still have an husband while Infanta Pilar was already widowed.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Infanta Pilar's husband Don Luis Gómez-Acebo,Viscount de la Torre died in 1991 but I guess she could still have objected after he died.I'd never have put Infanta Margarita down for one who cared about titles,her older sister maybe.

 

[Biri]

New Duke of Calabria and his family (baptism of the youngest child):

La famille du nouveau duc de Calabre - Noblesse & Royautés

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Hm... no one can claim that Anne d'Orléans y Orléans-Bragança is not equal to her spouse Carlos de Borbón-Dos Sicilias y Borbón-Parma... In my own personal opinon it makes no sense that Letizia Ortiz simply could be addressed as "Princess of Asturias" and as "Queen of Spain" by virtue of her marriage while Anne can be styled as a Grande de España (which is an empty and meaningless shell anyway because her royal titles by marriage and by birth outclass the grandeeship). Thanks for the information, I did not know that Doña Alicia can be addressed as Infanta de España but her equally impressively royalborn daughter-in-law can not. Never too old to learn something new...

 

[vkrish]

Infanta Pilar's husband Don Luis Gómez-Acebo,Viscount de la Torre died in 1991 but I guess she could still have objected after he died.I'd never have put Infanta Margarita down for one who cared about titles,her older sister maybe.

Either of them could have objected, doesnt matter the husband is alive or dead. And its hardly caring/clashing for titles.. For the old school, it may be a matter of principle..

 

[baena]

Infanta

Princess Anne is not an infanta of Spain because her husband was made infante ad personal by king Juan Carlos. The title of infante was personal. Until king JC change the law about titles of The royal family in 1987, a wife of a infante was a infanta if the marrige was equal. When Infanta Alicia married infante carlos in 1936 the king Alfonso XIII allowed her to use the title of infanta of spain.

Both marriages of the sisters of king JC were unequal under the law of the house when they got married. Thats why the count of Barcelona did not allowed to their husband the use of the title of infante of spain.

When king JC create his cousin the duke of calabria infante in 1994 the law said that the king can make infante o infanta of spain with the style of highness to the person he wants but the titlle is personal. Cant be used by the consort or descendants

 

[Stefan]

Princess Anne is not an infanta of Spain because her husband was made infante ad personal by king Juan Carlos. The title of infante was personal. Until king JC change the law about titles of The royal family in 1987, a wife of a infante was a infanta if the marrige was equal. When Infanta Alicia married infante carlos in 1936 the king Alfonso XIII allowed her to use the title of infanta of spain.

Both marriages of the sisters of king JC were unequal under the law of the house when they got married. Thats why the count of Barcelona did not allowed to their husband the use of the title of infante of spain.

When king JC create his cousin the duke of calabria infante in 1994 the law said that the king can make infante o infanta of spain with the style of highness to the person he wants but the titlle is personal. Cant be used by the consort or descendants

But King JC could have also created Princess Anne an Infanta.

 

[MAfan]

That was my thought too, had he wanted king Juan Carlos could have bypassed the limitation provided by the current law by creating Princess Anne an Infanta in her own right.

 

[AnaC]

Infanta Alicia was created an Infanta by Grace by Alfonso XIII on the occasion of her marriage to an Infante. She didn't became an infanta because she was royal born but because the King willed it, it was not automatic upon her marriage. She's the last living infanta created by the King's great-grandfather.

 

[Cory]

The Pilgrimage of the Constantinian Order of Saint George leaded by HRH the Duke of Calabria to Rome was a real success.

 

[Benjamin]

The Duke of Calabria will be in Paris this Saturday, May 28, for an investiture of the Calabria branch of the Constantinian Order.

Among those who will be receiving higher awards are Baron Hervé Pinoteau and Count Thierry de Beaumont-Beynac.

http://www.vexilla-galliae.fr/royau...-altesse-royale-pierre-duc-de-calabre-a-paris

 

[Cory]

Maybe this would be a good opportunity to meet the different Princes of the Royal House.

 

[MAfan]

Posts about the succession issues and the Duke of Castro's act of abolition of the Salic law have been moved to the following thread:

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...conciliation-and-succession-issues-40773.html

 

[Benjamin]

An investigation into the finances of Princess Inès of Bourbon, aunt of Prince D. Pedro, has been launched in the past month on suspicions of money laundering.

English article: Another Relative of King Felipe VI Investigated by the Spanish Tax Services – Royal Central

More information in Spanish media:
La princesa Inés de Borbón admite que se acogió a la amnistía fiscal pero niega el blanqueo | España | EL MUNDO
Inés de Borbón-Dos Sicilias, la princesa que no tenía patrimonio | loc | EL MUNDO