Prince and Princess Akishino have a son: Prince Hisahito

[Sister Morphine]

Either produce the heir or get out of the way and let someone else produce the heir. Stop whining about your privileged life and get on with your duties.

What an absolutely cold and insensitive statement. Has CPss Masako publicly "whined" about her life? Has she ranted and raved about the injustices she's been forced to endure?

I don't understand how you can be so heartless as to her condition. Have you had difficulties getting pregnant? Do you know women who've had difficulties getting pregnant? She miscarried her first pregancy and was blessed to deliver a healthy baby girl when she did. You make her sound like a baby factory and if a part is defective, she should be thrown into the streets.

Deplorable.

 

[monica17]

The birth of this new prince affects the whole family, so I will post on this thread regarding the comments on Masako:

Either produce the heir or get out of the way and let someone else produce the heir. Stop whining about your privileged life and get on with your duties-

Masako did not whine. She carefully worded it as finding a balance between her official duties as a CPss and her own person. She tried for 10 years before sinking into depression. She was not only very depressed, but actually had shingles. The extent of her illness indicates that it's not just a matter of whining, and Queen Beatrix's invitation for the family to vacation in the Netherlands speaks of how real and grave the illness is. Also, she was made to resume some duties by the IHA last year even if her doctors expressed concern about it. She's sick and yet she still makes the effort to do her duties. Masako has trouble bearing, add that to the pressure heaped on her by the IHA, she's sick and taking medication so it hasn't been even possible for the last three years.

IMHO, the Japanese Imperial Family are not at all privileged like their European counterparts. They have very little personal assets and have no freedom. Masako can't even call her parents without permission.

I am happy to hear that Masako feels joyful about her new nephew. Hope the family can stand united now.

 

[reen]

More thoughts

You have to give Princess Kiko credit for going through the pregnancy with grace and dignity. It was probably not an easy process to experience, as her hospilitization at the end of her pregnancy seems to indicate.

Do I think that the IHA had everything to do with this child? Yes. There have been rumors about this for quite a while.

Do I suspect that Princess Kiko was implanted with the eggs most likely to produce a male child and then tested quite early on to determine the sex of the baby and would have been strongly and constantly encouraged by the IHA to terminate and 'try again' if it was not a male? Yes.

However, she did what she considered her duty and went through the experience. We don't know what it cost her to conceive this baby. We can't judge as we are not in a position to know. She might have a life of privilege, but it's not an easy one to live.

From what I understand, the Imperial Family exists at the pleasure of the IHA, and the first rule of bureauracy is to self perpetuate. They NEED a male heir to continue their rule. They did what they could to get one.

On another note: I'll bet the IHA took it personally that Masako delivered a female, and they will do what they can to make her pay for it.

So, best wishes to Princess Kiko for a happy life with her family, and congratulations on the new addition.

 

[kimebear]

You have to give Princess Kiko credit for going through the pregnancy with grace and dignity. It was probably not an easy process to experience, as her hospilitization at the end of her pregnancy seems to indicate.

Do I think that the IHA had everything to do with this child? Yes. There have been rumors about this for quite a while.

Do I suspect that Princess Kiko was implanted with the eggs most likely to produce a male child and then tested quite early on to determine the sex of the baby and would have been strongly and constantly encouraged by the IHA to terminate and 'try again' if it was not a male? Yes.

However, she did what she considered her duty and went through the experience. We don't know what it cost her to conceive this baby. We can't judge as we are not in a position to know. She might have a life of privilege, but it's not an easy one to live.

From what I understand, the Imperial Family exists at the pleasure of the IHA, and the first rule of bureauracy is to self perpetuate. They NEED a male heir to continue their rule. They did what they could to get one.

On another note: I'll bet the IHA took it personally that Masako delivered a female, and they will do what they can to make her pay for it.

So, best wishes to Princess Kiko for a happy life with her family, and congratulations on the new addition.

I absolutely agree. Pregnancy for a woman of advanced maternal age is never easy. I am glad Kiko and the baby came through it all well.

 

[USRoyalist]

I don't believe the IHA would have allowed IVF as concerned as they are with tradition. Besides, Akishino and Kiko are such a beautiful couple, I much prefer to contemplate them creating an heir in the traditional way!
I'm all in favor of women inheriting or accomplishing whatever they want, but throwing over a 1,500 old tradition is not something to be done lightly. As Churchill said, "When it is not necessary to change, it is necessary not to change."
It is always a good idea to have several eligible heirs for safety's sake. Monarchs have traditionally had large families for precisely this reason. Queen Charlotte (Mrs. George III) had fourteen children, Victoria had nine. This notion of reviving concubinage because modern Japanese women blanch at the idea of having more than two children does not bode well for the future of the Japanese nation.
In any event, I'm happy for the Family and the Nation.

 

[Laviollette]

Wow..they did it! Got to hand it to the IHA...

This comment, two whole minutes after learning the new born child was a boy, seems very negative to me. But that's just me. Furthermore, while you claim that you are only bashing the IHA, my impression is that there is an implication that the Prince and Princess are part of this conspiracy by the IHA to provide a male heir. jmo.

 

[Laviollette]

What an absolutely cold and insensitive statement. Has CPss Masako publicly "whined" about her life? Has she ranted and raved about the injustices she's been forced to endure?

I don't understand how you can be so heartless as to her condition. Have you had difficulties getting pregnant? Do you know women who've had difficulties getting pregnant? She miscarried her first pregancy and was blessed to deliver a healthy baby girl when she did. You make her sound like a baby factory and if a part is defective, she should be thrown into the streets.

Deplorable.

Kiko provided the heir so what's the problem? Why should we feel sorry for Masako? She can go on with her life now, right?

 

[Elspeth]

I don't believe the IHA would have allowed IVF as concerned as they are with tradition.

It was strongly rumoured, although I don't know how authoritative the knowledge was, that Princess Aiko's birth was due to IVF, so there would have been a precedent.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Kiko provided the heir so what's the problem? Why should we feel sorry for Masako? She can go on with her life now, right?

You didn't address any statement in my post. You conveniently glossed over where I asked you if you thought she was nothing more than a baby maker and if a part was defective [she couldn't conceive a male child] she should be thrown in the streets since she didn't do her "duty".

She as the CPss, needed to produce a male heir as the IHA had issues with females inheriting. She had problems conceiving, and when she did, she miscarried. She conceives again, but this time delivers a girl....not what they wanted. The pressure she was under to produce a male child must have been stifling and while we are all glad that the Princess Kiko delivered a healthy baby boy, that doesn't mean we can't feel bad for the situation Masako was put in and might very well continue to be in, since she didn't do her "duty". What about the Princess Aiko? What of her situation? She's the daughter of the Crown Prince, but she's not a boy.....what happens to her in this situation?


You still haven't backed up your assertions that Masako "whined" about anything.

 

[Zonk]

This comment, two whole minutes after learning the new born child was a boy, seems very negative to me. But that's just me. Furthermore, while you claim that you are only bashing the IHA, my impression is that there is an implication that the Prince and Princess are part of this conspiracy by the IHA to provide a male heir. jmo.

Its funny how many people had negative comments about the role of the IHA during this pregnancy....yet you keyed in on mine. Regardless.....you are certainly entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. And while I am sure both parents wanted an additional child and are happy regarding his birth...based upon some of the actions of Prince Akishino and his loyalty to the IHA rather his brother...I would say that both the Prince and Princess Akishino played a small part in this "conspiracy."

 

[Laviollette]

You didn't address any statement in my post. You conveniently glossed over where I asked you if you thought she was nothing more than a baby maker and if a part was defective [she couldn't conceive a male child] she should be thrown in the streets since she didn't do her "duty".

She as the CPss, needed to produce a male heir as the IHA had issues with females inheriting. She had problems conceiving, and when she did, she miscarried. She conceives again, but this time delivers a girl....not what they wanted. The pressure she was under to produce a male child must have been stifling and while we are all glad that the Princess Kiko delivered a healthy baby boy, that doesn't mean we can't feel bad for the situation Masako was put in and might very well continue to be in, since she didn't do her "duty". What about the Princess Aiko? What of her situation? She's the daughter of the Crown Prince, but she's not a boy.....what happens to her in this situation?


You still haven't backed up your assertions that Masako "whined" about anything.

Of course she doesn't publicly "whine" but the whole world knows about her problems don't they? No one read her mind. And I don't care whether or not she has problems conceiving a child or not! I hope she's happy with her daughter. It is irrelevant at this point whether she has another child or not anyway, isn't it?

 

[Laviollette]

Its funny how many people had negative comments about the role of the IHA during this pregnancy....yet you keyed in on mine. Regardless.....you are certainly entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. And while I am sure both parents wanted an additional child and are happy regarding his birth...based upon some of the actions of Prince Akishino and his loyalty to the IHA rather his brother...I would say that both the Prince and Princess Akishino played a small part in this "conspiracy."

I haven't singled you out. Yours are some of many that I've read since the announcement of the pregnancy last February. Months and months of negative speculation about this unborn child and how it was concocted by the evil IHA. Then the birth finally comes and now pages and pages of negative comments about what a disappointment the birth of a little boy is. I'm expressing my strong opinion just like many have been doing for months.

So what if Akishino is loyal to the IHA? He is also loyal to the reigning Emperor and Empress, his parents who seem supportive of him and his wife. The entire Imperial Family does not rest on one person. It's about the institution. His brother is one person with an admittedly ill wife. Why should the future of the family revolve around them and only them? The Imperial Family will survive without them and go on just like any other royal family should survive after its monarch before moving on to the next monarch.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Of course she doesn't publicly "whine" but the whole world knows about her problems don't they? No one read her mind. And I don't care whether or not she has problems conceiving a child or not! I hope she's happy with her daughter. It is irrelevant at this point whether she has another child or not anyway, isn't it?

Actually no it's not. If her and Naruhito have another baby and it's a boy, that child will displace Kiko's son as the heir to the throne. So it's not "irrelevant" if they have another child. I don't know if they will, but if the IHA used IVF and genetic screening to insure that Kiko's child was a boy, that won't stop them from doing it to Masako should they say she should have another child.

And of course you don't care if she had problems conceiving. Your ability to feel any pity or sorrow for others is riding on 0 right now.

 

[kimebear]

I haven't singled you out. Yours are some of many that I've read since the announcement of the pregnancy last February. Months and months of negative speculation about this unborn child and how it was concocted by the evil IHA. Then the birth finally comes and now pages and pages of negative comments about what a disappointment the birth of a little boy is. I'm expressing my strong opinion just like many have been doing for months.

I find it ironic that someone who can throw around phrases like "barin (sic) Crown Princess", "get out of the way", "poor poor Crown Couple", and, of course, "stop whining" actually has the tenacity to whine about the negative comments regarding the birth of a boy. Are you suggesting by the "get out of the way" comment that Naruhito should give up his birthright and step aside as future emperor just because his sister in law had a son? Nobody has suggested that you should not show happiness for Kiko on the birth of a healthy baby, everyone is happy about the safe delivery. But are you really so void of any compassion for a sick woman that you would take this opportunity to kick her when she is down? Shame!

 

[Laviollette]

Actually no it's not. If her and Naruhito have another baby and it's a boy, that child will displace Kiko's son as the heir to the throne. So it's not "irrelevant" if they have another child. I don't know if they will, but if the IHA used IVF and genetic screening to insure that Kiko's child was a boy, that won't stop them from doing it to Masako should they say she should have another child.

And of course you don't care if she had problems conceiving. Your ability to feel any pity or sorrow for others is riding on 0 right now.

Well good for them if they have a son. And since you don't know me you can't judge whether or not I feel pity or sorrow for others.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Yeah, let's put something out here. No one is upset that Kiko delivered a healthy baby boy. We're all thrilled that both mother and child are fine. I think some people are getting the idea that we're unhappy a healthy child has been born.

 

[Elspeth]

Let's lose the personal attacks, please. We should be able to discuss this topic without resorting to criticising other people's characters.

Thank you.

Elspeth

Japan moderator

 

[lynn]

Congratulations to them and let's just hope for the best for everyone, I suppose. The IHA may have "won" this round, but nothing is for sure until this little prince actually sits on the throne to be emperor. Who knows? With the heat off Masako, she may actually even produce another child and it could be a boy! Now, wouldn't that be an in-your-face situation?

 

[Sister Morphine]

Well good for them if they have a son. And since you don't know me you can't judge whether or not I feel pity or sorrow for others.

Edited: based on moderator comments

 

[mandyy]

Today on Sept. 7, the baby prince will be able to join his mom Princess Kiko and be in the same room together.

Newborn baby joins Princess Kiko
The newborn baby boy of Prince Akishino and Princess Kiko was moved to his mother's room at Aiiku Hospital in Tokyo on Thursday morning after spending the night in the newborn baby unit....The Imperial Household Agency has employed a nurse in her 20s to care of the baby, it said....
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060907/kyodo/d8jvpsug0.html

 

[Laviollette]

I find it ironic that someone who can throw around phrases like "barin (sic) Crown Princess", "get out of the way", "poor poor Crown Couple", and, of course, "stop whining" actually has the tenacity to whine about the negative comments regarding the birth of a boy. Are you suggesting by the "get out of the way" comment that Naruhito should give up his birthright and step aside as future emperor just because his sister in law had a son? Nobody has suggested that you should not show happiness for Kiko on the birth of a healthy baby, everyone is happy about the safe delivery. But are you really so void of any compassion for a sick woman that you would take this opportunity to kick her when she is down? Shame!

I'm not whining. I'm expressing my opinion about what has been going on in the Japanese family threads for the several months that I have been observing them. Why can't you express your joy and happiness at the birth of the little prince without bringing up Masako's unhappiness? Why is she the center of the universe? I think most of you have been speaking the same language on this issue for so long that it's hard to look at another opinion and especially one that challenges the notion of the CPss as a total victim.

 

[Sister Morphine]

I'm not whining. I'm expressing my opinion about what has been going on in the Japanese family threads for the several months that I have been observing them. Why can't you express your joy and happiness at the birth of the little prince without bringing up Masako's unhappiness? Why is she the center of the universe? I think most of you have been speaking the same language on this issue for so long that it's hard to look at another opinion and especially one that challenges the notion of the CPss as a total victim.

Has anyone here NOT said that they were happy Kiko delivered a healthy baby? However, Masako's unhappiness is partly due to the fact that she couldn't give birth to a boy.....and that Kiko just did. I'm sure she's happy that her sister-in-law delivered safely, but I'm also sure it also stings as well.


Also, no one said that Masako is a "total victim". You can feel sorry for someone without thinking them a "total victim".

 

[kimebear]

I'm not whining. I'm expressing my opinion about what has been going on in the Japanese family threads for the several months that I have been observing them. Why can't you express your joy and happiness at the birth of the little prince without bringing up Masako's unhappiness? Why is she the center of the universe? I think most of you have been speaking the same language on this issue for so long that it's hard to look at another opinion and especially one that challenges the notion of the CPss as a total victim.

You don't know me, therefore, you cannot judge whether or not I can express joy and happiness at the birth of a little prince. I have had five miscarriages myself. I assure you that I celebrate the healthy birth of any baby, anywhere. Unfortunately, the birth of a son for Kiko is extremely intertwined with Masako's situation. The overwhelming majority of news articles mention the new prince and Masako's lack of one, so it is not just the people on the forum that lump the discussion together.

Yes, it is because of my personal experiences that I can sympathize with Masako's life because I would hate to think that it would be suggested that I be replaced in my husband's life because of my inability to provide him with a child. No, we are not royalty, but my husband is the only child of an only child (his father) of an only child (his grandfather) of an only child (his great grandfather) so his family name will die with him if we don't have a baby. My husband has never pressured me, but I assure you that it is a situation that I would not wish on anyone.

 

[foiegrass]

So what if Akishino is loyal to the IHA? He is also loyal to the reigning Emperor and Empress, his parents who seem supportive of him and his wife. The entire Imperial Family does not rest on one person. It's about the institution. His brother is one person with an admittedly ill wife. Why should the future of the family revolve around them and only them? The Imperial Family will survive without them and go on just like any other royal family should survive after its monarch before moving on to the next monarch.

Well said. Look, it is possible that the imperial family can move on without the CP couple. There's always Prince and Princess Akishino to take over. They are loyal to the Emperor, loyal to Japan and they know where their duties lie. the I am not saying that the CP couple can't do that, but then again, with Masako's illness, the show still has to go on. I do not think that they were forced into having this child as they already wanted to have a child earlier but the Emperor dissauded them from trying for another one out of courtesy for the CP couple.

In Asian societies, you just can't help it if males have more precedence over females. My mom told me how disappointed my paternal grandparents were when I turned out to be female. When females marry, they have to take the surnames of the male. Look at the salaries, generally, males get more than females. Look at Asian militaries, males get drafted, not females. I know everyone's talking about sex equality but admit it, there are things that males can do and females can't. Even Queen Silva said so, in an interview that she admitted that she and the King would rather Prince Carl Phillip acede to the Swedish throne rather than Victoria. In Britain, the Princess Royal was second in line, but was pushed back to fourth when her brothers were born. Look at Luxembourg, Liechtenstein & Thailand (to name afew), females are not even included in succession.

 

[kimebear]

Well, that didn't take long.....

Japan's Newborn Prince Already Faces Pressure to Produce Heir

By John Brinsley
Sept. 6 (Bloomberg) -- The newest heir to the world's oldest monarchy is less than a day old and already has a significant duty to perform: produce a prince of his own....

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=ay.ahELH.SpM&refer=asia

 

[mandyy]

Prince's birth keeps Japan guessing about stressed Masako
The birth of a long-awaited prince has eased Japan's succession crisis, but the answer is far from clear to another key question -- if it will ease stress on Crown Princess Masako, who was under pressure to produce a male heir.
Some believe the birth Wednesday of a boy to Princess Kiko will relieve the burden on her sister-in-law Masako, a former career woman who makes few public appearances due to her mental state.
But others speculated Masako may feel further psychological pain as Kiko, the wife of the emperor's second son Akishino, takes the public spotlight as the mother of a future monarch....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060907/en_afp/japanroyalsuccessionprincessmasako_060907044018

 

[soCal girl]

In Asian societies, you just can't help it if males have more precedence over females. My mom told me how disappointed my paternal grandparents were when I turned out to be female. When females marry, they have to take the surnames of the male. Look at the salaries, generally, males get more than females. Look at Asian militaries, males get drafted, not females. I know everyone's talking about sex equality but admit it, there are things that males can do and females can't. Even Queen Silva said so, in an interview that she admitted that she and the King would rather Prince Carl Phillip acede to the Swedish throne rather than Victoria. In Britain, the Princess Royal was second in line, but was pushed back to fourth when her brothers were born. Look at Luxembourg, Liechtenstein & Thailand (to name afew), females are not even included in succession.

I'm well aware of the Asian culture since I'm Asian. It definitely is a male-dominated culture. I think that the IHA need to face reality: it's the 21st century. Men and women can't do the same things, that I agree. However, being Emperor/Empress really isn't one of them IMO. Henry VIII of England was so desperate for a boy that he went through many wives and killed two of them. His heir? His daughters, Mary and Elizabeth. Queen Elizabeth I has been one of England's greatest monarch of all time. I wish the IHA would give little Aiko a chance. Besides, she wouldn't be the first Empress in Japans' history so I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

 

[Sister Morphine]

I'm well aware of the Asian culture since I'm Asian. It definitely is a male-dominated culture. I think that the IHA need to face reality: it's the 21st century. Men and women can't do the same things, that I agree. However, being Emperor/Empress really isn't one of them IMO. Henry VIII of England was so desperate for a boy that he went through many wives and killed two of them. His heir? His daughters, Mary and Elizabeth. Queen Elizabeth I has been one of England's greatest monarch of all time. I wish the IHA would give little Aiko a chance. Besides, she wouldn't be the first Empress in Japans' history so I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

No she wouldn't be the first Empress, but she would be the first Empress to inherit the throne outright since the 1700s. Any other Empresses in history I believe, were acting as Regents until the male heir was old enough to take over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empress_Go-Sakuramachi

Empress Go-Sakuramachi (後桜町天皇 Go-Sakuramachi Tennō) (September 23, 1740 – December 24, 1813) was the 117th imperial ruler of Japan, according to the traditional order of succession. She is the last woman ever to reign as Empress Regent, out of eight in the history of Japan, ruling from September 15, 1762 to January 9, 1771 before abdicating in favor of her nephew, Emperor Go-Momozono.

 

[soCal girl]

No she wouldn't be the first Empress, but she would be the first Empress to inherit the throne outright since the 1700s. Any other Empresses in history I believe, were acting as Regents until the male heir was old enough to take over.

If Japan had reigning Empresses during the 1700's and survived, it surely can survive Aiko being Empress in the 21st century.

 

[MoonlightRhapsody]

How should the prince and princess have "orchestrated" the opinions in this forum? Please, I'm really curious to learn how this could have been done. And what don you mean by "barin"? My dictionary doesn't know the word... Help is very much appreciated.

The reason why the dictionary doesn't know the word "barin" is because the correct spelling is "barren". It means a person who is unable to have a child. I'm not sure this applies to Masako because being barren implies that she cannot become pregnant at all. Though she had IVF with Aiko, her first pregnancy was natural. She just has a harder time carrying a baby to term. Didn't she have an ectopic pregancy? (Pregnancy outside the uterus) That's just a fluke of nature and not, to my knowledge, an inherited thing.

I used to think that the vast majority of people here still desperately want to believe in a fairytale ending (i.e. Albert of Monaco's illegitimate children succeeding him, Louis of Luxemburg marrying the mother of his out-of-wedlock child and living happily-ever-after, etc.), but this topic has shown me that a lot of us are skeptical and suspicious about motives (Masako "orchestrating" sympathy). It's good, I guess, that we have a wide variety of opinions because otherwise it'd be boring around here.

Anyway, rejoicing or not, Japan has only temporarily postponed the problem. Trust me, it'll crop up again.

It was big risk for Kiko to go through with this pregnancy. She's of advanced maternal age. I'm glad she came through it fine.

As for Prince Akishino and the IHA, I wouldn't be surprised if the pregnacy was the one that was orchestrated. Between the two brothers, Akishino is the one that is more likely to bow down to the will of the IHA for tradition's sake. At least Naruhito spoke out to defend his wife, Akishino might have caved in to the pressure of producing a male child. No one can ever find out for sure, but from what I've read and heard, this is my opinion. I believe that the IHA is the real cause of turmoil in this family, in their stubborn pursuit of holding on to a tradition that could mean the end of their very institution.