Prince Albert & Charlene Wittstock Wedding Suggestions & Musings

[Moonmaiden23]

No one has said she didn't convert Barsi said she doesn't have to but can! I'm sure she will because it would just make sense to. She crosses herself, wears the mantilla, has communion: tell tell sign that she is or has converted to Catholicism, although we will not know unless she tells us herself...

IF CW took the Sacrament during Mass then she has converted, no ifs or buts.

The Church does not allow non-Catholics to receive the Eucharist, unless it is a dire life or death emergency.

It would be considered sacrilege to do that.

ETA...there really is no such thing as being "just Christian". If you are not Orthodox, and are one of the many Christian denominations that do not recognize the Bishop of Rome as Head of the Church then you are quite simply a PROTESTANT Christian.

That is why I found it so jarring when CW made that statement...I got the feeling that she didn't know the difference.

 

[hibou]

If she has converted, don't you think Barsi would have said so? It's easy if she has, even the palace website would say she has and they would be the first to do so. When Amber at first said she was keeping her Catholic faith the palace press office stated so, and when she changed her mind at the last minute, they palace office issued another statement. I'm sure if Charlene had converted the palace website would state it. JMO

 

[Madame Royale]

If she has converted, don't you think Barsi would have said so?

No because it is not his place to say so, no matter who he is.

It is up to the court as to when, or if, that information is made public. And it wouldn't be before the marriage I'd imagine.

I'm sure if Charlene had converted the palace website would state it.

I don't see why the palace would have to publicise any such information when until her marriage, Miss Wittstock is not a member of the princely family. Until she is married, there is no obligation that information of her religious beliefs should be made public.

I find her response of being 'Christian' a perfectly acceptable one at the current time, even if I myself do believe it very likely that she has converted to the denomination of Catholicism, specifically.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I suppose we will just have to wait and see.

If she is passed over for communion during her own Nuptial Mass, we will have our answer.

 

[jonc93]

ETA...there really is no such thing as being "just Christian". If you are not Orthodox, and are one of the many Christian denominations that do not recognize the Bishop of Rome as Head of the Church then you are quite simply a PROTESTANT Christian.

That is why I found it so jarring when CW made that statement...I got the feeling that she didn't know the difference.

Not quite! A Christian is any person who believe Jesus Christ is the son of God and died on the cross for us. Then Christianity is divided into four popular denominations which are: Catholic, Protestant, Eastern (orthodox), and Non-trinitarian(not so common). If you are a Protestant you are a Christian of the Protestant domination, if you are Catholic you are a Christian of the Catholic denomination, if you are Eastern Orthodox then you are a Christian of the Eastern Orthodox denomination. So if you aren't Orthodox, or Catholic that doesn't make your title a PROTESTANT Christian, because you can chose to not belong to any denomination. All 4 denominations have equal rights to just be "Christians".

 

[Jaya]

If she has converted, don't you think Barsi would have said so? It's easy if she has, even the palace website would say she has and they would be the first to do so. When Amber at first said she was keeping her Catholic faith the palace press office stated so, and when she changed her mind at the last minute, they palace office issued another statement. I'm sure if Charlene had converted the palace website would state it. JMO

I have to agree with you hibou. If Charlene had converted there would be ample notification on the palace website one would think. Cw did not ever say in her interview that she looked forward to conversion..was in the process etc...This is another aspect[like the marriiage date] that is quite confusing actually.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

Wedding Dates

Jaya, has the date been changed again, or are you just using their earlier date changes to prove something?

Jonc93, very well put. Thank you.

 

[melina premiere]

The date of the civil ceremony is on july the first at 17h and the religious ceremony is on july the second at 17h,the dates of the wedding has not been changed again as you can see it on the officiel announce of the principaly palace site.It is also translate in english iif you cannot understand french. The changing of the date in july 2010 is an old history, you can speak of other subject

I saw all the mass of the national fest, I saw it on the tmc TV a monegash channel we receive in France. She made all the gests that the princely family did during the mass, but only Prince Albert receiced the communion, Princess Caroline, Princess Stephanie and Charlene did not receive the communion. It was as the other years, only Prince Albert receive the communion.For the Sainte devote mass where she was with Albert there was only short film, but I saw Charlene crossing herself when she arrived at her armchair. At the National fest mass she only inclined the head in front of the altar, as a protestant person does when he is in a catholic church.
I am catholic and I am also chretien as a protestant person is chretien, the two religions are chretien,

On the site of Daylife when you click or writte Charlene wittstock, you see the rooms of museum where there will be the dinner and ball, they are in renovation for the wedding as the palace and you can see the official photo of the engagement on the glass of shops

 

[Madame Royale]

but I saw Charlene crossing herself when she arrived at her armchair

A person of the Protestant faith will, traditionally, not observe the signum crucis. As such, the motion is not present throughout most forms of Protestantism.

 

[Nathalie Cox]

I saw all the mass of the national fest, I saw it on the tmc TV a monegash channel we receive in France. She made all the gests that the princely family did during the mass, but only Prince Albert receiced the communion, Princess Caroline, Princess Stephanie and Charlene did not receive the communion. It was as the other years, only Prince Albert receive the communion.For the Sainte devote mass where she was with Albert there was only short film, but I saw Charlene crossing herself when she arrived at her armchair. At the National fest mass she only inclined the head in front of the altar, as a protestant person does when he is in a catholic church.
I am catholic and I am also chretien as a protestant person is chretien, the two religions are chretien,

Well it's quite simple then. She didn't convert. She is still protestant.
If she made the cross sign, it can be sign of respect as Kitty Atlanta said. Now, if she hasn't take communion, that probably means that she is not catholic.
At PPDA interview she said she was christian, not catholic, not protestant. With such answer, we can imagine anything. It's an ambigous answer.
And with Barsi saying that it's up to her certain things, that definitely means she is and will stay protestant.

 

[Madame Royale]

And with Barsi saying that it's up to her certain things, that definitely means she is and will stay protestant.

It doesn't suggest that at all. His comments were phrased with caution, respecting the privacy of the indavidual and actually commited very little certainty to the situation.

He merely stated what is fact, that it is at the discretion of Charlene as to whether or not she wished to change denominations. If she had, he would not be obliged to relay that information publically so his response was prefectly restrained.

Ultimately, we'll all have to wait until the wedding I imagine before any inclination towards her denomination of faith becomes clear.

 

[melina premiere]

She can stay "protestant or she can convert catholic, I don't think she will say that before the wedding, we will see if she will receive the communion at the religious ceremony, but now in our catholic wedding there are no more the part of the communion, I remember that there were no communion at the wedding of the prince Philip of Spain.There was a mass without communion.and Spain is a very catholic country.

 

[p_caspian]

I suggest they invite HRH Prince Georg Friedrich of Prussia and HIH Grand Duchess Maria of Russia to the wedding those are two interesting people who has a very interesting lineage and royal background who you hardly and rarely see on Royal weddings around the world. It's like someone who you don't see at every wedding

 

[georgiea]

It doesn't suggest that at all. His comments were phrased with caution, respecting the privacy of the indavidual and actually commited very little certainty to the situation.

He merely stated what is fact, that it is at the discretion of Charlene as to whether or not she wished to change denominations. If she had, he would not be obliged to relay that information publically so his response was prefectly restrained.

Ultimately, we'll all have to wait until the wedding I imagine before any inclination towards her denomination of faith becomes clear.

Agree with you Madame Royale. Just have to wait. If she does not convert Prince Albert then must be fine with it. Only hope the new Princess' subject will be. The big plus for actress, Grace Kelly was that she was Catholic.

 

[LadyMacAlpine]

A person of the Protestant faith will, traditionally, not observe the signum crucis. As such, the motion is not present throughout most forms of Protestantism.

My cousin was a practicing Catholic for 5 years he did. I did it and stood in front of the priest to be blessed without taking communion, in fact I did everything but communion before I converted.

As far as Caroline is concerned it was announced many years ago she would not be taking communion in public. Stephanie is probably the same since her first divorce.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

She can stay "protestant or she can convert catholic, I don't think she will say that before the wedding, we will see if she will receive the communion at the religious ceremony, but now in our catholic wedding there are no more the part of the communion, I remember that there were no communion at the wedding of the prince Philip of Spain.There was a mass without communion.and Spain is a very catholic country.

The Eucharist is at the heart and soul of the Mass. In other words, there is no Mass without Communion. It doesn't exist, there is no such thing.

One CAN be married in a Catholic service outside of Mass...but it's considered just a ceremony and not a Mass.

A person of the Protestant faith will, traditionally, not observe the signum crucis. As such, the motion is not present throughout most forms of Protestantism.

In "High Church" Anglicanism the Sign of the Cross is often made. I saw the Earl Spencer do it at the funeral of his sister the Princess of Wales.

Not quite! A Christian is any person who believe Jesus Christ is the son of God and died on the cross for us. Then Christianity is divided into four popular denominations which are: Catholic, Protestant, Eastern (orthodox), and Non-trinitarian(not so common). If you are a Protestant you are a Christian of the Protestant domination, if you are Catholic you are a Christian of the Catholic denomination, if you are Eastern Orthodox then you are a Christian of the Eastern Orthodox denomination. So if you aren't Orthodox, or Catholic that doesn't make your title a PROTESTANT Christian, because you can chose to not belong to any denomination. All 4 denominations have equal rights to just be "Christians".

I understand your opinion, but I do not agree with it. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Madame Royale]

My cousin was a practicing Catholic for 5 years he did. I did it and stood in front of the priest to be blessed without taking communion, in fact I did everything but communion before I converted.

Not quite sure the point you were trying to convey as such, but certainly for a good many it would come down to the conviction of one's personal beliefs and teachings.

I do not make the sign of the cross, neither does my family nor any friends who are themsleves Protestant. Naturally, Catholic relatives and friends do observe the physical enacting of the signum crucis.

I understand your opinion, but I do not agree with it.

Jonc's post isn't an opinion, as much as it is fact.

It matters not if you agree with it, the explanation that was provided is quite correct. Though be it more commonly known as three major branches and not four, as such.

For ref.

Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Christianity: An Overview - ReligionFacts

Christianity has divided into three major branches over the centuries.

Roman Catholicism represents the continuation of the historical organized church as it developed in Western Europe, and is headed by the Pope. Distinctive beliefs of Catholics include the doctrines of Transubstantiation and Purgatory, and distinctive practices include devotion to the saints and Mary and use of the rosary.

Eastern Orthodoxy (which includes the Greek and Russian Orthodox Churches and several others) is the continuation of the historical organized church as it developed in Eastern Europe. It differs from Catholicism in its refusal of allegiance to the Pope, its emphasis on the use of icons in worship, and the date it celebrates Easter. Other cultural, political, and religious differences exist as well. Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism separated in 1054 AD, when the Patriarch of Constantinople and the Pope excommunicated each other.

Protestantism arose in the 16th century during the Reformation, which took place mainly in Germany, Switzerland, and Britain. Protestants do not acknowledge the authority of the Pope, reject many traditions and beliefs of the Catholic Church, emphasize the importance of reading the Bible and hold to the doctrine of salvation by faith alone. Protestantism encompasses numerous denominational groups, including Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Pentecostals and Evangelicals.

 

[melina premiere]

there was no communion during the wedding mass of Prince Philip of Spain ,before the vatican II, new rules of catholic tites, there are no more confession before communion and we can eat before communion, I am catholic and My children had catholic wedding mass and there were no communion. But to return of the religion of Charlene Wittstock, People of Monaco are very tolerent, they respect the religion of other people and they are pleased to see that Charlene made the gests of crossing herself, when she knees at the moments of the 'Offrende' and so and when she was attending at the mass of Sainte Devote and wearing the mantille of the country.It is only when the palace will announce the converting of Charlene Wittstock we will know if she is catholic.Were there all these questions about the religion of Future Princess Maxima when she married to the Prince William Alexandre?I do not know she has converted to the protestant religion

 

[Nathalie Cox]

Maxima didn't convert, she is still catholic. That's another story. But i see it wrong from her to not having converting either. Her daughters are raised as protestant, while she is catholic.
For me, Charlene should convert. I don't think she could have a big deal with it. I don't think she is very devote to her religion (protestant) so it wouldn't be a big deal to convert to catholicism.

 

[melina premiere]

I do not think that it is wrong for Princess Maxima to convert protestant, what matter that her daughters are protestant? she is a very well princess and the people of Holland respect her belief. The belief of a person is very intimat ans if she respect the religion of her country so she has a public life.
For Charlene, we will see what she will do, it is a deal between Prince Albert, she, and the prople of monaco, not ours

 

[Florencia]

The official photo of the engagement of Prince Albert II of Monaco and his fiancee Charlene Wittstock is displayed in a shop in Monaco. Prince Albert II and Charlene Wittstock will marry at the Monaco palace on July 1, 2011.

http://i55.tinypic.com/2j3maza.jpg
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/multimedia/camera-club/in-photos/best-pictures-from-the-past-24-hours/article1929533/?utm_medium=Feeds:%20RSS/Atom&utm_source=Home&utm_content=1929533

 

[melina premiere]

You go on the site daylife and you will see many photos of the rooms of the museum where there will be the dinner and the ball after the wedding, they are in restauration for the wedding, the walls of the palace also. I went to monaco a week ago and there are many shops with the photo of engagement and small flags of Monaco

 

[Florencia]

The Oceanographic Museum of Monaco
oceanographic museum of Monaco - News, photos, topics, and quotes+

Clean-up at the palace
Monte Carlo Daily Photo: The Wedding: Clean-up at the Palace

 

[Nathalie Cox]

I do not think that it is wrong for Princess Maxima to convert protestant, what matter that her daughters are protestant? she is a very well princess and the people of Holland respect her belief. The belief of a person is very intimat ans if she respect the religion of her country so she has a public life.
For Charlene, we will see what she will do, it is a deal between Prince Albert, she, and the prople of monaco, not ours

It does matter that her daughters are protestant. Amalia is going to be one day the queen and will represent the country and it's religion.
Well, about Charlene, it actually doesn't matter if she is catholic, protestant or whatever she wants to be, as long as she raises her kids catholic, wich she will do.

 

[jonc93]

I understand your opinion, but I do not agree with it. Thanks for the explanation.

Your welcome, but it's not an opinion. I just presented facts, agree or disagree, it is your choice, but you will remain uninformed, no one will try to force you....

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Not quite sure the point you were trying to convey as such, but certainly for a good many it would come down to the conviction of one's personal beliefs and teachings.

I do not make the sign of the cross, neither does my family nor any friends who are themsleves Protestant. Naturally, Catholic relatives and friends do observe the physical enacting of the signum crucis.



Jonc's post isn't an opinion, as much as it is fact.

It matters not if you agree with it, the explanation that was provided is quite correct. Though be it more commonly known as three major branches and not four, as such.

For ref.

Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Christianity: An Overview - ReligionFacts

With all due respect, your post confirms MY opinion as fact Madame Royale. All of the above denominations are indeed considered Christian.

But there is no such thing as a Christian denomination that is neither Catholic nor Protestant...any Christian sect OR INDIVIDUAL PERSON that does not recognize Papal authority(other than Orthodoxy)is Protestant, Christian though they may be.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Your welcome, but it's not an opinion. I just presented facts, agree or disagree, it is your choice, but you will remain uninformed, no one will try to force you....

I am not only not uninformed, I am correct.

Any baptized person who self identifies as "just Christian" more than likely doesn't know the difference and is indeed "uninformed".

 

[Moonmaiden23]

No one has said she didn't convert Barsi said she doesn't have to but can! I'm sure she will because it would just make sense to. She crosses herself, wears the mantilla, has communion: tell tell sign that she is or has converted to Catholicism, although we will not know unless she tells us herself...[/QUOTE

Non-Catholics can and do cross themselves(see video of the funeral of the late Princess of Wales) and theycan also wear mantillas when in a Catholic church as a sign of respect.

I do agree that it would make more sense for CW to convert, and it would make it simpler to assimilate into her new country and her new family.

 

[melina premiere]

In the first interview of Prince Albert and Charlene, the first question of the reporter about the religion on Charlene was in french and here many persons did not understand our language but Charlene understood, she awswered in French( the proof she learns and understands french)Je suis chretiene. Prince Albert said as Monseigneur Barsi said" there is no rule, this is thinghs we will see further. He said this in french.It is the proof she will convert soon before or after the wedding? they must have speak about that and he knows that Charlene will convert otherwise he would have not answer this in a public interview.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Unless that person belongs to a so-called non-denominational church. These are independent churches that don't align themselves with a particular denomination. They would consider themselves within the evangelical fold, but evangelicalism is a particular approach to doctrine and practice and not a denomination in itself.

I am not only not uninformed, I am correct.

Any baptized person who self identifies as "just Christian" more than likely doesn't know the difference and is indeed "uninformed".