Press Reports about Carl Philip and Sofia Hellqvist, Part 2: April 2012 - June 2014

[HRHHermione]

At what point, are there limits?

I'm getting tired of seeing smart, hardworking women bypassed in favor of these women and are there women out there who don't have gross, tawdry pasts? Are there no women in the royal/aristocratic world good enough for CP?

You don't know that Sofia isn't smart and you don't know that she isn't hardworking. All you do know is that she posed for some pictures when she she was a teenager that you think are unacceptable and that she was not good at handling the media when they first started dating
.
She's obviously learned to dress appropriately for royal occasions and all she seems to do these days is work on her charity, so clearly she's trying to be the kind of woman Carl Philip can marry

None of that really matters though. What matters is that she is the woman he wants to be with, not an aristocrat with a spotless background. That stuff must not matter to him.
.

 

[USCtrojan]

At what point, are there limits?

I'm getting tired of seeing smart, hardworking women bypassed in favor of these women and are there women out there who don't have gross, tawdry pasts? Are there no women in the royal/aristocratic world good enough for CP?

How sad that you would assume that aristocracy is the only thing good enough for Carl Philip! Do t get me wrong -I am not 100% keen on Sofia and her past as I feel that one should have a past free of scandal like hers if sheiks going to be a public figure -as I am sure the Swedish public does too. However as contradictory as it might sound, there is nothing wrong with two people falling in love and marrying for love!!!!!!! Now who is to say what her intentions may or may not be - my point is this... Carl Philip like any other human being deserves to marry for love if he chooses, whether she be aristocracy or not!

 

[Meraude]

my point is this... Carl Philip like any other human being deserves to marry for love if he chooses, whether she be aristocracy or not!

Yes, he deserves to marry for love, but there is no reason for her to become a royal princess. If not the husband of Madeleine gets the title HRH and prince of Sweden, why should the wife of Carl Philip get the title HRH and princess of Sweden?? Equal rights and equal titles for the spouses of the younger royals, regardless of the sex of the royal partner.

 

[Dman]

If it's to be, I think Sofia would become HRH The Duchess of Värmland. If I'm not mistaken.

 

[principessa]

I guess that Sofia will be treated like Princess Lilian after her marriage as HRH Princess Sofia of Sweden, Duchess of Värmland.

It would be interesting for me if possible children of Carl and Sofia also be styled HRH Prince... of Sweden, Duke / Duchess of .... .

 

[USCtrojan]

Yes, he deserves to marry for love, but there is no reason for her to become a royal princess. If not the husband of Madeleine gets the title HRH and prince of Sweden, why should the wife of Carl Philip get the title HRH and princess of Sweden?? Equal rights and equal titles for the spouses of the younger royals, regardless of the sex of the royal partner.

I will agree with you here! They can marry fir love, of course, let them do so.

I was not saying she needed to be a princess or a HRH -fairly certain that will happen, however!

 

[HRHHermione]

Yes, he deserves to marry for love, but there is no reason for her to become a royal princess. If not the husband of Madeleine gets the title HRH and prince of Sweden, why should the wife of Carl Philip get the title HRH and princess of Sweden?? Equal rights and equal titles for the spouses of the younger royals, regardless of the sex of the royal partner.

I agree that they should be equal but Madeleine is also choosing not to live in Sweden or take on many royal duties. If Carl Philip and Sofia are going to remain in Sweden and support Victoria and Daniel, it makes sense for them to retain titles.

 

[PiaDK]

I so much hope this marriage will not happen.

It seems like CP might very well get a "right-hand" role for Victoria in the future - which means he probably will keep his title upon marrying a commoner.

Just making a Google photo search on her name says everything - and it doesn't even show the topless photo of her, her nipples aroused, always used by the Danish tabloids.

I'm really not into the habit of Princess bashing at all. I just think it degrades the whole concept of modern royalty if Sofia would become a HRH.

How could dignified Silvia and Victoria approve of such a marriage...

 

[crm2317]

I just hope that this couple follow their hearts no matter what.

It frustrates me the people on this board who judge Sofia for something she did years ago. None of us know her reasons for her past modelling pictures. Is it a career I would chose? No. Does it give me the right to say judge her and say she isn't good enough for Sweden? Certainly not!

I respect her for standing by her man in the face if the rumours, gossip and the insults from press and royal watchers. It can't have been easy knowing her past and coming to meet the royal family. Her foundation also does good work.

The past is the past. How is she supposed to move on into a new chapter of her life if people keep using her past as a way to put her down.

 

[cepe]

I just hope that this couple follow their hearts no matter what.

It frustrates me the people on this board who judge Sofia for something she did years ago. None of us know her reasons for her past modelling pictures. Is it a career I would chose? No. Does it give me the right to say judge her and say she isn't good enough for Sweden? Certainly not!

I respect her for standing by her man in the face if the rumours, gossip and the insults from press and royal watchers. It can't have been easy knowing her past and coming to meet the royal family. Her foundation also does good work.

The past is the past. How is she supposed to move on into a new chapter of her life if people keep using her past as a way to put her down.

Well said. I agree 100%

 

[Meraude]

I agree that they should be equal but Madeleine is also choosing not to live in Sweden or take on many royal duties. If Carl Philip and Sofia are going to remain in Sweden and support Victoria and Daniel, it makes sense for them to retain titles.

It's true that Madeleine and Chris won't live in Sweden for now, but who knows what their plans are for the future? Or for that matter, if Carl Philip will remain in Sweden for the rest of his life? As far as I know Madeleine will remain HRH and princess of Sweden even after her marriage, as well as Carl Philip keeping his title when he marries, but I don't see a reason why only Carl Philip's spouse should get the title HRH. Even with a lesser title than HRH and princess of Sweden, Carl Philip's spouse should be able to perform royal duties if it's her wish do do so.

Is the XY gene so much more worth for a royal??

 

[HRHHermione]

Well said. I agree 100%

So do I, and I'll say additionally that I think a lot of this comes from some ingrained misogyny and some very backwards ideas about women and sexuality. It's slut shaming- treating a woman like she is worthless or used up because she made the decision to do nude modeling.

I just hope that if they do choose to get married, she proves herself ready to work hard for the royal family and that people eventually get over the fact that she made a decision to pose nude when she was a teenager.

 

[HRHHermione]

It's true that Madeleine and Chris won't live in Sweden for now, but who knows what their plans are for the future? Or for that matter, if Carl Philip will remain in Sweden for the rest of his life? As far as I know Madeleine will remain HRH and princess of Sweden even after her marriage, as well as Carl Philip keeping his title when he marries, but I don't see a reason why only Carl Philip's spouse should get the title HRH. Even with a lesser title than HRH and princess of Sweden, Carl Philip's spouse should be able to perform royal duties if it's her wish do do so.

Is the XY gene so much more worth for a royal??

I don't believe that it is, but my attitude is more that Chris should be given an equal title to Madeleine's rather than the idea that Sofia should be denied an equal title to Carl Philp's.

I do think it's a shame that men and women are treated differently in this way.

 

[NGalitzine]

Is the XY gene so much more worth for a royal??

Yes, for both royals and commoners. You may not agree or like it but society places a higher value on males in most walks of life.

 

[cepe]

So do I, and I'll say additionally that I think a lot of this comes from some ingrained misogyny and some very backwards ideas about women and sexuality. It's slut shaming- treating a woman like she is worthless or used up because she made the decision to do nude modeling.

I just hope that if they do choose to get married, she proves herself ready to work hard for the royal family and that people eventually get over the fact that she made a decision to pose nude when she was a teenager.

If she does that, then they should. Princess Lillian lived with Prince Bertil for 30 years and it denied them children because of the morals/attitude of the time (including about models/actresses) and Bertil's committment to the throne. Lillian was given a chance - why not Sofia? I know some people won't see the parallels but this is my opinion.

 

[Marengo]

I think it is quite unfair & too easy to portray all posters with objections to Sofia Hellqvist as HRH Princess of Sweden as sexists, 'slut-shamers' and whatnot.

As I have said multiple times before (as did many others), the nude pictures are not the main reason why I (and many other posters) have their doubts about Sofia Hellqvist. Though contrary to what is stated above, she had them made at several occassions, not only in her teens.

It is her quest for fame, her apparent lack of any other goals in life before she met the prince & afterwards, and her miraculous transformation to the holy mother Sofia, saving all of Africa -just shortly after meeting the prince- that is the biggest problem to me. In the mean time she misses no opportunity to pose for & talk to the boulevard press to promote herself, quite unprecedented for a royal partner (or even spouse). I can't remember any other royal partner being this eager for attention & being as indiscreet -as are the people around her. It all just seems phoney, very phoney.

That such a woman most likely will become HRH Princess of Sweden actually shows the deficit of the monarchy IMHO. A lot of trust, perks etc are given to royals, I think it is reasonable to expect them to represent the country & their citizens with some sort of dignity. A reality show contestant whose main concern seems to be to get press attention somehow doesn't strike me as the most appropriate person for this. If my own RF will degrade the monarchy into an entertainment show with B-celebrities I will certainly turn republican.

About the 'let's give her a chance'-option. I think that most of us would have been more forgiving if she would have stayed in the background, dedicated herself to a study etc. Mette-Marit did just that & was given a chance and she seems to be doing fine in her role. But instead Sofia seems to be a woman on a mission, which is to get fame, attention etc. And instead of the Big Brother house she found another way to get it. I can't see how this is simular to Princess Lilian's case, who did exactly the opposite.

But I am sure there will be an engagement soon, so I guess the joke will be on us.

 

[Meraude]

Yes, for both royals and commoners. You may not agree or like it but society places a higher value on males in most walks of life.

So you are satisfied with and accept that the society places a higher value on males, and that it should be wrong to try to change that opinion? I don't see anything wrong in trying to change old, outdated opinions, and as Sweden and the Swedish people are for equal rights regardless of gender, the Swedish royal family should be an example in how they treat it's members and their spouses regardless of their gender, and not follow old examples "just because it's always been that way".

 

[cepe]

So you are satisfied with and accept that the society places a higher value on males, and that it should be wrong to try to change that opinion? I don't see anything wrong in trying to change old, outdated opinions, and as Sweden and the Swedish people are for equal rights regardless of gender, the Swedish royal family should be an example in how they treat it's members and their spouses regardless of their gender, and not follow old examples "just because it's always been that way".

Surely you have to recognise that society values males more highly before you realise that it needs to change. Currently in many societies it hasn't changed. NGalitzine didnt say she was satisfied, she was stating a fact.

 

[NGalitzine]

Surely you have to recognise that society values males more highly before you realise that it needs to change. Currently in many societies it hasn't changed. NGalitzine didnt say she was satisfied, she was stating a fact.

FYI, "she" is actually a "he", lol.

Nicholas

 

[Meraude]

Surely you have to recognise that society values males more highly before you realise that it needs to change. Currently in many societies it hasn't changed. NGalitzine didnt say she was satisfied, she was stating a fact.

Just because everyone everywhere have not yet recognised a need for change in how differently the society values males and females, does that mean that the situation everywhere has to stay status quo until all societies have come to an agreement? There has to be someone who takes the first step towards a change, and why not Sweden when it comes to equality in what titles the spouses of junior royals should receive?

 

[USCtrojan]

Yes, for both royals and commoners. You may not agree or like it but society places a higher value on males in most walks of life.

So true -you hear so often of fact that it is the son who passes on the family name! It is carl Philip who is the only Bernadotte to carry on the name. Victoria because she is going to be queen (Estelle as well) will obviously remain a Bernadotte in name although I'm sure personally she likely considers herself a Westling. Madeline will officially be an O'Neil (at least one would assume she would take her husbands name), rather than legally remain a Bernadotte.

I feel like this will never change! It's so sad!

 

[USCtrojan]

So do I, and I'll say additionally that I think a lot of this comes from some ingrained misogyny and some very backwards ideas about women and sexuality. It's slut shaming- treating a woman like she is worthless or used up because she made the decision to do nude modeling.

I just hope that if they do choose to get married, she proves herself ready to work hard for the royal family and that people eventually get over the fact that she made a decision to pose nude when she was a teenager.

It is likely once the royal baby comes that Sweden will forget! Babies change everything

 

[Roslyn]

Victoria because she is going to be queen (Estelle as well) will obviously remain a Bernadotte in name although I'm sure personally she likely considers herself a Westling. Madeline will officially be an O'Neil (at least one would assume she would take her husbands name), rather than legally remain a Bernadotte.

I feel like this will never change! It's so sad!

How can you be sure that Victoria considers herself a Westling or that Madeleine will take her husband's name? They might, but they might not. Not all women do these days, and there's no reason why they should.*

Things only change when people make changes, and every woman who keeps her own name is helping make that change. As long as women are told that they should change their surnames on marriage, the majority seem inclined to do so, but change the emphasis and tell them they have the choice and many more will choose to keep their own surnames, and in time people will no longer assume that women are going to abandon their own names and take their husband's.

The reason it was done in the first place was because women essentially lost their own identity on marriage and became part of their husband's legal identity and his property. The law has changed in that regard but the custom is slower to follow.

And of course in some cultures women have never changed their names on marriage.

* ETA Just did a crash course on the situation in Sweden, thanks to Google! It seems the practice of women taking their husband's surnames in Sweden is of recent origin. Before the 19th century it wasn't done but after that it became more common and 1920 legislation made it compulsory, but since 1982 it has been optional and many women apparently keep their own surnames.

 

[NGalitzine]

I think it was popular at the height of the womens lib movement for women to retain maiden names but I see less and less of it in the corporate world. Today it seems as soon our female managers get married they send an email out with their new name and email address. I once asked why this was and one told me they saw no reason to complicate their lives and that of their children but that retaining maiden names was almost seen as something their mothers might have done if they had been rabid feminists in the 70s.

 

[Roslyn]

I think it was popular at the height of the womens lib movement for women to retain maiden names but I see less and less of it in the corporate world. Today it seems as soon our female managers get married they send an email out with their new name and email address. I once asked why this was and one told me they saw no reason to complicate their lives and that of their children but that retaining maiden names was almost seen as something their mothers might have done if they had been rabid feminists in the 70s.

Yeah, the younger women in their 20s and 30s and even into their 40s, didn't live through the times those of us who became adults in the 1970s remember and their own individual identity is not as important to them as it was to us. It's all history to them, not memory. The times when industrial awards provided a lower rate of pay for women doing the same job as men, when it was a condition of their jobs with certain employers for women to have to give up work when they got married or became pregnant, when married women couldn't get loans without their husband guaranteeing them, when a husband could not be charged with raping his wife because the marriage contract was assumed to give him irrevocable consent to have sex with her whenever he chose and he was even able to use quite a bit of force to assert this right, when there was no such thing as maternity leave much less paid maternity leave, when there was no concept of job sharing and flexible hours to suit women with children, when women's opinions on politics, finance, etc., were not taken seriously, when newsreaders were all men and women were relegated to being weather girls, when women were not equal members of the police or armed forces, etc., etc..

Roslyn,
rabid feminist in the 70s, and proud of it. And occasionally known to roar a bit.

 

[peanutbutterfly]

Yeah, the younger women in their 20s and 30s and even into their 40s, didn't live through the times those of us who became adults in the 1970s remember and their own individual identity is not as important to them as it was to us. It's all history to them, not memory. The times when industrial awards provided a lower rate of pay for women doing the same job as men, when it was a condition of their jobs with certain employers for women to have to give up work when they got married or became pregnant, when married women couldn't get loans without their husband guaranteeing them, when a husband could not be charged with raping his wife because the marriage contract was assumed to give him irrevocable consent to have sex with her whenever he chose and he was even able to use quite a bit of force to assert this right, when there was no such thing as maternity leave much less paid maternity leave, when there was no concept of job sharing and flexible hours to suit women with children, when women's opinions on politics, finance, etc., were not taken seriously, when newsreaders were all men and women were relegated to being weather girls, when women were not equal members of the police or armed forces, etc., etc..

Roslyn,
rabid feminist in the 70s, and proud of it. And occasionally known to roar a bit.

Hi rabid womanist here too. Woo hoo

 

[LadyFinn]

I think it is quite unfair & too easy to portray all posters with objections to Sofia Hellqvist as HRH Princess of Sweden as sexists, 'slut-shamers' and whatnot.

As I have said multiple times before (as did many others), the nude pictures are not the main reason why I (and many other posters) have their doubts about Sofia Hellqvist. Though contrary to what is stated above, she had them made at several occassions, not only in her teens.

It is her quest for fame, her apparent lack of any other goals in life before she met the prince & afterwards, and her miraculous transformation to the holy mother Sofia, saving all of Africa -just shortly after meeting the prince- that is the biggest problem to me. In the mean time she misses no opportunity to pose for & talk to the boulevard press to promote herself, quite unprecedented for a royal partner (or even spouse). I can't remember any other royal partner being this eager for attention & being as indiscreet -as are the people around her. It all just seems phoney, very phoney.

That such a woman most likely will become HRH Princess of Sweden actually shows the deficit of the monarchy IMHO. A lot of trust, perks etc are given to royals, I think it is reasonable to expect them to represent the country & their citizens with some sort of dignity. A reality show contestant whose main concern seems to be to get press attention somehow doesn't strike me as the most appropriate person for this. If my own RF will degrade the monarchy into an entertainment show with B-celebrities I will certainly turn republican.

About the 'let's give her a chance'-option. I think that most of us would have been more forgiving if she would have stayed in the background, dedicated herself to a study etc. Mette-Marit did just that & was given a chance and she seems to be doing fine in her role. But instead Sofia seems to be a woman on a mission, which is to get fame, attention etc. And instead of the Big Brother house she found another way to get it. I can't see how this is simular to Princess Lilian's case, who did exactly the opposite.

But I am sure there will be an engagement soon, so I guess the joke will be on us.

Ï agree totally. And I think that the choices one makes during her life, reflect ones values. The choices Sofia has made, posing at these controversial photos when she was sixteen, twenty (with the snake) and even older and searching for fame in many different ways, reflect her values and the values of her family. Sofia has told at an interview that her mother encouraged her to pose for Slitz with the snake. Slitz had called and asked her to those photos, she had said no, but they called again. And her mother wanted her to do it: You only live once, jump into all the fun.
Sofia's past will haunt her even though she has tried to change everything. The press has portfolios of her and the worst tabloids will have a great party after the engagement is published.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I'm sure Sofia will be thinking about your objections of her past decisions while she is at the alter with Carl Philip.

 

[HRHHermione]

I'm sure Sofia will be thinking about your objections of her past decisions while she is at the alter with Carl Philip.

I really do very much look forward to watching that particular wedding. I hope it comes to pass.

 

[Elektra]

I'm sure Sofia will be thinking about your objections of her past decisions while she is at the alter with Carl Philip.

Altar or not, she cannot erase her past...