Monarchy and Restoration; Rival Families and Claimants

[queenofthelight]

There has been a lot of activity around the Romanovs lately.
Quite a few politicians (although admittedly, not some of the most notable ones) expressed their views on the Family and/or the prospect of restoration. Alexander Belov, former leader of MAII (Movement against Illegal Immigration) and a noted historian offered his views on the subject.
You can read more information in this blog entry.

Dear Marsel, thank you very much for posting this important information.

 

[Marsel]

You are most welcome, Al_bina and queenofthelight.

None of the current descendants are in compliance with the Pauline Laws and all are morganatic. Maria's mother is Georgian and her son is a Hohenzollern, two things which are extremely controversial to average Russians.

I just don't see any prospect of a restoration and the family's reign ended in 1917 with Grand Duke Michael's refusal to accept the throne, passing his sovereign powers to the Provisional Government pending a referendum of the Russian people. Given that point, the throne could be offered to anyone.

I tend to agree with you, branchg. None of the current Romanovs have enough ground to ever claim the Throne. And I believe you are perfectly right about Grand Duke Mikhail: the moment he declined to accept the Throne unless there was a referendum (which never happened), Monarchy virtually stopped existing in Russia.

And yes, the fact that the self-proclaimed “Head of the Imperial House” is not even a Romanov but from German Princely House tends to discourage a lot of Russians, at least those who are even aware about the aforementioned people. Equally controversial is the fact that practically all the Romanovs were born and brought up in foreign countries (in Maria Vladimirovna’s case – in Spain, in Prince Nicholas’s case – in Britain), and therefore, have very little relevance for Russia.

If Monarchy in Russia is ever reinstated (and somehow, I think that is pretty likely at some point in future), I doubt either Maria Vladimirovna or Prince Nicholas (or his Heirs) are going to be ‘invited’: most probably, it will be someone completely new, someone who was born and raised here, although they’ll probably dig a couple of drops of Royal Blood in his/her veins, just for ‘legitimacy’.

<...>
It remains to be see what may come out of this situation. However, the bickering between various factions of the Romanovs tends to look no-to-so-aristocratic and reminds me of greedy relatives fighting over old pots and pans. If they wish to restore the monarchy, it is deemed expedient for them to unite.

I have to say this for the Romanovs: even though the disagreements within the family are well-known, there rarely ever take the matter into public. This is especially true about the RFA: Prince Dimitri's statement a couple of days ago was one of the very first direct criticisms on Maria Vladimirovna: as a matter of fact, I don't there has ever been an official statement of any sort from the RFA concerning Maria Vladimirovna (which would be disparaging in any way) prior to this occasion.

 

[branchg]

Maybe Vladimir Putin will be proclaimed Tsar of All Russias. That makes more sense than any of the current Romanovs.

 

[Al_bina]

I think that the era of proclaiming someone as a Tsar/King/Emperor has passed away.

 

[queenofthelight]

I think that the era of proclaiming someone as a Tsar/King/Emperor has passed away.

Well, I think for those, who love and respect a royal person, especially, if she/he is a patriot, the era or time will never pass away.

 

[Al_bina]

Are you saying that Russians will gladly accept a politician as a Tsar? "...those, who love and respect a royal person [Who exactly is this royal person?]..." might be viewed as a patriot. Have I understood you correctly? What about the rest, who do not care much about the royalty and in particular about the Romanovs and just want to have a stable country to live in?

 

[Marsel]

I wouldn't exclude the possibility, Al_bina.
Of course, I am not speaking on behalf of all Russians and I know that the idea of a politician as a Tsar would be quite unacceptable for some, but I do believe that the idea is more adequate than that of inviting a foreigner to “reign” over the country.

Not sure why Vladimir Putin would ever want to become a "Tsar" though: why have limited, constitutional role when you have absolute power?

 

[Al_bina]

Vladimir Vladimirovich is wise enough to know that royalty is like cognac (the older it gets, the better it becomes). Minting (not proclaiming) an absolutely new Tsar and new royal family tends to look awkward to me.
Russians going to Varyags and asking them to "come and rule" again ... Well ... the history may repeat once again. I would say that Prince Michael of Kent would be a great choice as an invited foreign Prince to come and rule. He speaks Russian, has got a perfect bloodline reinforced by extensive experience of carrying out various engagements. In other words, Prince Michael knows how to do a job. Lady Gabriella will make a perfect Grand Duchess, whereas I am not sure about Lord Frederic as Grand Duke.

 

[Marsel]

Vladimir Vladimirovich is wise enough to know that royalty is like cognac (the older it gets, the better it becomes). Minting (not proclaiming) an absolutely new Tsar and new royal family tends to look awkward to me.
Russians going to Varyags and asking them to "come and rule" again ... Well ... the history may repeat once again. I would say that Prince Michael of Kent would be a great choice as an invited foreign Prince to come and rule. He speaks Russian, has got a perfect bloodline reinforced by extensive experience of carrying out various engagements. In other words, Prince Michael knows how to do a job. Lady Gabriella will make a perfect Grand Duchess, whereas I am not sure about Lord Frederic as Grand Duke.

Vladimir Vladimirovich is certainly a very wise person.

One thing we definitely agree on: Prince Michael seems a far better candidate to me than most of the Romanovs. And what a wonderful Empress / Tsarina Princess Michael would make! I am quite certain no other Royal Lady could rival her in grace and elegance. And when I think just how well she and Lady Gabriella would wear the Crown Jewels, I want to start a "Prince Michael for Emperor" campaign immediately.


And in other news about Restoration: during a recent conference of the Russian opposition (fittingly named "Russia after Putin"), the question of restoration surfaced again. The conference took place in July and was attended by all the prominent leaders of opposition.
You can read more about it in this blog entry.

It does look like the Romanovs and the idea of Restoration have a momentum. If there are so many speculations about possible restoration now, what will happen closer to 2013 (400 years of the Romanov House) or 2018 (100th anniversary of the death of the last Emperor and his family)?

 

[Dierna23]

I have just finished reading Marsel's article and I find the whole discussion quite enthralling. A few years before I would never have imagined that such an discussion could have been lead between politicians in Russia. But I got quite clairaudient as I heard of the rehabilitation of Nicholas II. and his family and at least of Grandduchess Ella. That all is coming very quickly lately.

Well, I don't want to assume a right to say, if it would be good or not good for Russia (at least I think - what is gone, is gone). I heard in several TV-documentaries that many Russians would like to have a Tsar again, but here and somewhere else I read that the opposite is the case. So I don't have an oppinion myself

All I can say is, that I'm still really wondering about all that and find it quite interesting.

I agree of course with Al Bina and Marsel - Prince Michael would make a great Tsar But I think, if there will be any restoration at all, it will be a Romanov who will inherit the throne.

 

[MelinaB.]

I believe things here are more complicated than choosing the right Tsar.It really worries me the fact that the leaders of a country can't find a political solution,they give up and suggest they should all pray for the right Monarch to come and rule them.What's going on,people?Have we entered a new...Medieval century?What's next?Slavery perhaps?I'm sorry,that was one of the most shocking articles I have read and it's not that I believe it's gonna happen-no way,imo-but even bringing up an issue like this is truly scary.Anyway,I do hope that Prince Michael of Kent is enjoying his tea right now...

 

[branchg]

Restoring the monarchy won't solve Russia's political problems and may increase them. Without a democratic framework, the Tsar would be a mere symbol to be exploited by the powerholders.

Russia should concentrate on building strong democratic institutions and the rule of law before contemplating a return of the monarchy.

 

[queenofthelight]

Are you saying that Russians will gladly accept a politician as a Tsar? "...those, who love and respect a royal person [Who exactly is this royal person?]..." might be viewed as a patriot. Have I understood you correctly? What about the rest, who do not care much about the royalty and in particular about the Romanovs and just want to have a stable country to live in?

No, you didin't understand me at all...
As for a royal person, I mean Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna and her son (he is 28 years old), who have been living in Spain for a long time.
There were lots of articles, discussions and pronouncement of their coming back to Russia as at home....
Unhappily, without any useful results....
As for the others, I may say only one thing - No two minds think alike.

 

[Al_bina]

It has been kind of you to clarify your post. In truth, I think that Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna and her son have got their reasons for not coming back to Russia.

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=806623&postcount=22
Given this interview, Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna stated that she waits for an invitation from the government as well as points out that there are many points to resolve before they permanently settle in Russia, including monetary allowances for all members of the Imperial House.
In light of Marsel's blog entry (the 29 July, 2009),Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna said,

“The Imperial House intends to return to Russia. We don’t know when the time will be right, but we are certain that it will happen in near future, ..."

Once again, it may appear that she has been waiting for the Russian government to motivate her to come and live in Russia. Why should the Russian government motivate Grand Duchess and her son to live in Russia? Did Bulgaria, Serbia, Romania and Hungary, the civilised countries, provide motivation, including monetary one, for their royal houses to come and live in the respective countries?

 

[Benjamin]

Did Bulgaria, Serbia, Romania and Hungary, the civilised countries, provide motivation, including monetary one, for their royal houses to come and live in the respective countries?

I don't believe Hungary has given any form of restitution to the Habsburgs, but...

Bulgaria returned Vrana Palace, the retreat of Bovorets, and several other properties (hunting lodges and farms) to former King Simeon.

Serbia allows the family of Crown Prince Alexander to live in the Royal Palace at Dedinje.

King Michael received Savarsin Castle, Peles Castle (which the Royal Family then resold to the state for 30 million euros), and lifetime rights for his close family to reside in the Elisabeta Palace. Also, the descendants of Princess Ileana obtained Bran Castle (they turned it into a museum).

 

[Al_bina]

Thanks for information !
In light of your information, the question "Who will fund the maintenance of properties returned?" arises. I do not think that any of the Romanovs pretenders have got sufficient funds to pay for upkeep.

 

[Russophile]

Thanks for information !
In light of your information, the question "Who funds the maintenance of properties returned" arises.

I think that would be the most paramount question in any restoration of any monarchy. HM is having a hard enough time paring down the civil list, just think, without all the natural resources that Russia has--and aren't they all in private hands now?--, how are you going to maintain those palatial residences?

 

[Marsel]

Nope, not all natural resources are in private hands.

Should the Imperial House return to Russia as an institution (which doesn't necessarily mean a Restoration), I doubt that 'returning' them some of the former Imperial Palaces and/or residences, maintaining their security and even possibly, providing an annual allowance would exactly be a drain on the budget.
And just think of the advantages: won't we just love to constantly complain about the 'wasted taxpayers' money', as the British do?

 

[Al_bina]

Under the current circumstances, I do not think that the Russian government will take any steps toward putting any extra burden on the budget.

 

[Marsel]

To be honest, I completely agree with you.
Restoration of the Russian Monarchy is very unlikely in near future, however somehow I am convinced that one day it will be restored.

 

[branchg]

The vast majority of the state palaces throughout Russia were, in fact, built with the income of the state. The Romanovs essentially controlled almost all of the Empire's major resources and production. There was little distinction between the state's money and their money.

For that reason, I highly doubt there would ever be a restitution of property to the imperial family. Unlike Serbia, Bulgaria or Romania, whereas various dynasties were invited to assume the throne and brought their personal fortunes along with them, the properties of the Tsar belonged to Russia.

 

[Benjamin]

As far as I know, the modern Romanovs' public position is that they do not seek restoration of assets that were nationalized.

However, it seems that a (very) small number of nobles have indeed been able to recoup some properties which were seized under the Communists.

Here are some links on the issue of royal and noble restitution in Russia:

Russian Tsar descendants officially entitled to royal family property in Russia | NowPublic News Coverage

Rehabilitation, Tsarist-style: Finally, the Last Autocrat of all the Russias is recognised as a Victim of Political Repression « Voices from Russia

Restitution for Russian Nobles? - BusinessWeek

Russia's dispossessed aristocrats fight oligarchs for their palaces / Culture / Russian London

After nine decades, Russia royalty returning home

Playing Politics with the Romanovs - TIME

 

[Marsel]

I wasn't entirely sure where to put this: sorry if this is a wrong thread.


Informal photographs of the Imperial Family, taken by Pierre Gilliard, will be exhibited in the Historical Museum (on the Red Square). The exhibition will take place from September 8 to 29.

Pierre Gilliard was the French tutor of Olga, Tatiana, Maria and Anastasia. From 1913 and onwards, he also taught Alexei. He was passionate about photography and took some of the best known informal pictures of the Imperial Family. His pictures are unique not only because they depict the family in very informal situations, but because all the photographs are so natural: the family truly trusted Gilliard.
Gilliard didn’t leave the Romanovs till the very end: only in May of 1918, despite his protests, he was ordered to leave the family (that probably saved his life). Gilliard managed to sent his photographic archive to France though the British Council. He was one of the first to return to Yekaterinburg after the city was re-taken by the White army and took part in the investigation of the fate of the Imperial Family.

I am certainly going to see the exhibition, what a wonderful and exciting opportunity!

 

[Keiser_Konstantiv_]

No i don`t think so

 

[vsriCo]

Monarchist Paste and Future

Russia Profile - Monarchist Past and Future

Thousands of Petersburgers and millions of television viewers yesterday witnessed the culmination of a promotional campaign: A magnificent ceremony of reburial of the Danish-born Russian Empress Maria Feodorovna – the mother of the last Russian Tsar Nicholas II. It is a fitting moment to speculate on the place of the monarchist idea in modern Russia.
First of all, I should state that I have not been part of any discussions of a monarchist plan with any group, however legitimate or even remotely proximate to the corridors of Russian power. Nor have I any evidence that such discussions have taken place or are under way.
Yet some recent occurrences suggest that the monarchist idea is not simply an element of the traditional Russian mentality. It is also a spice, if you will, in the country’s political kitchen in which the recipe for the next presidential term is being prepared. The reburial splendor is just the last episode in an ongoing row, which will not be settled soon.
About a month ago I received a strange package. Inside was a nicely printed, anonymous book with a gilded cover called Proekt Rossia, or Project Russia. It was mailed to me without a return address, but with a mysteriously self-important stamp: “To the leaders of public opinion. Special distribution.” Inside was a well-written, scathing, and intermittently very persuasive 380-page-long critique of democracy as a form of government. The main claim was that the power of the people is a myth, and in a democratic society, the blind masses are always ruled by mammon. The text then moves to an apology for monarchy in its authentic, autocratic form. “There is no greater authority than the power from God,” write the mysterious authors. “Whether or not we believe in God, such a conclusion is absolute.”
Above all, the authors argue that – in a sentiment shared by many Russians – the country needs a continuity of power rather than a constant change of government mandated by democracy. Such a change leads to a short planning horizon, theft, and further degradation of Russia. As an interim solution, until the society matures to the point where monarchy can be restored, it is worth keeping the current team rather than changing it. Sounds somewhat similar to those arguing in favor of President Vladimir Putin’s third term, doesn’t it?
The publisher, OLMA-Press, said in a preface that the book, which is rumored to have been conceived in the depths of the security services, was apparently written in 2004-2005 and distributed to the upper echelons of the Russian elite in September 2005, prompting a lively internal discussion in these circles. OLMA said it had failed to find the author but decided to go ahead with the publication, promising the authors a hefty fee were they to surface. The book is labeled to have a staggering print run for non-fiction in Russia -- 50, 000 copies.
A quick Internet search also located a website where the opus is published http://projectrussia.ru (allegedly on behalf of a young man who found the book on his four-star general father’s desk). I witnessed an alarmed reaction to the book from Alex Goldfarb, a pro-democracy activist and an associate of Boris Berezovsky. He cites CIA interest in Project Russia and suggests that Putin's Kremlin is connected to the initiative. Goldfarb has called on Russia’s liberals to rally against monarchist totalitarianism instead of mobilizing to oppose a bogus fascist threat.
I don’t know who the authors are and whether there is a connection to the Kremlin. But this monarchy promotion appears very well organized and well funded. Project Russia is a far cry from the amateurish monarchist leaflets of the early 1990s which were printed on bad paper, handed out by poorly dressed bearded men, quoting the motto from the early 20th century priest, St. John of Kronshtadt: “Democracy is in hell, and in the Heaven – Kingdom!”
Then last week the government-owned VTsIOM polling agency published figures stating the number of monarchy supporters in Russia has doubled over the past decade and now stands at about 10 percent. Twenty percent of Russians would support restoring the monarchy but don’t see a suitable candidate. A solid majority -- about 65 percent – are firmly against monarchy, saying that it is a past phase for Russia.
What is most interesting, however, is that younger, educated urbanites are more likely to favor the monarchy than their less educated elders, who were perhaps more influenced by Soviet anti-monarchist propaganda. This pattern is confirmed in similar polls conducted by other companies, such as the 2002 report from the Public Opinion Foundation (FOM), which puts the number of monarchy supporters at around 20 percent. FOM found that representatives of higher socio-economic strata are most likely to be monarchists.
Some liberal commentators suggested the VTSIOM monarchy poll was requested by the Kremlin. I called a friend from VTSIOM. He said that the inclusion of monarchy questions into the standard regular poll reflects the personal interest of one VTSIOM researcher, who has been pushing for it for a long time. Colleagues were simply tired or resisting. “There was no order from above,” the friend said.
There is one identifiable pattern however: monarchy issues resurface in Russia towards the end of presidential election terms, when powers that be are preoccupied with the search for the successor.
I have heard from several sources that back in the 1990s monarchy was one of the scenarios seriously considered in the Kremlin as a means of ensuring continuity of power for Boris Yeltsin and his entourage. At one point, there was a plan to grant some official legal status to one of the branches of the Romanov family. In 1998, after a lengthy, controversial, and inconclusive identification process, remains believed to be those of Tsar Nicholas II and his family (but not recognized as such by the Russian Orthodox Church, despite strong government pressure) were ceremoniously interned in the Peter and Paul Cathedral in the presence of President Boris Yeltsin.
In the second half of the 1990s, Yevgeny Kiselyov, then an influential anchor on Vladimir Gusinsky’s NTV channel, produced several documentaries on the Romanovs, prompting allegations that he was orchestrating a Kremlin-ordered pro-monarchist campaign.
Kiselyov confirmed in a telephone interview that he had heard from several prominent figures (including film director Nikita Mikhalkov and oligarch Boris Berezovsky) that a constitutional monarchy would be the best regime for Russia. However, Kiselyov also said NTV coverage of the Romanovs simply arose on slow news days. He adamantly denied receiving any requests from Yeltsin’s inner circle asking him to popularize the idea of monarchy: “It is just a story that’s interesting and it sells well – it generates good ratings.”
So, maybe the answer is that there is no planning under way and monarchy keeps returning to the public scene simply because it sells well? Perhaps the explanation is that royal families are celebrities similar to pop stars? Maybe OLMA-Press simply wants to make money on Project Russia?
But why does the monarchist idea sell so well? How many miles of opinion columns discuss the lack of democratic tradition in this country? There is an opinion that Stalin saw himself as an emperor of a distorted Communist version of the Russian Empire; others note the disproportionately strong presidency and the fact that the 1993 constitution bestows upon the head of state more powers than Tsar Nicholas had after 1905! Or take the very concept of VLAST – that impersonal, top-down alien force, which weighs down upon everything in this country – without which no Russian political or business discourse can take place and which we struggle to translate into English inadequately, as “power” or “authority.” Doesn’t it speak of the essentially monarchist mentality of my compatriots?
On the one hand, the degree of monarchist sentiment within the Russian Orthodox Church is astounding. Although the Church has officially declared that it is not affiliated with a particular form of government, Nicholas II, who was canonized under vast popular pressure in 2000, is one of the most venerated saints today. The hierarchy is ineffectively fighting a heresy within the Church which sees the slain emperor as a “co-redeemer” on par with Jesus Christ. The situation is such that I have heard a prominent priest exclaim at an internal conference: “We are becoming Ceaserodox instead of Orthodox!”
For the state, on the other hand, there is a fundamental, long-term unsolved question of legitimacy. After all, the Russian Federation is a successor to the Soviet Union, itself the result of a coup d’etat. The quest for continuity with historical Russia recalls the “new old” flag and coat of arms, the rebuilding of a throne hall in the Kremlin and the reburial of the Romanovs. But it doesn’t address the actual issue, which the restoration of monarchy would have solved. It would give direction and meaning to Russia’s development; it suggests the elusive national idea which the country’s elite has been unable to formulate during the past 15 years.

A good article. It would be interesting to see if this idea is still floating around: the article is 4 years old.

 

[vsriCo]

Rest of the article:

Yet any discussion of the monarchist idea in Russia leads to several major stumbling blocks. First, are we talking about a constitutional or an absolute monarchy? In the 1990s, the talk was about the constitutional one (6 percent are in favor according to the latest VTsIOM survey). Project Russia calls for the absolute one (3 percent support it in the VTsIOM poll). In a 2002 interview, Putin ruled out the former, but jokingly defended the latter. Second, would the blessing of the Russian Orthodox Church be sufficient to legitimize a new form of government in the eyes of the country’s non-Orthodox and atheist minority? And third, who would be the new Tsar, when the Romanovs are too remote and divided? How do you convene today the new Council of the Estates to elect the new Tsar and what should the criteria be? Or do you elect the Constitutional Assembly according to the laws of 1917? Take these questions, add more than 60 percent of those opposed to monarchy, and you realize that no matter how attractive the idea might be, no matter how organic it appears for the Russians almost 90 years after they lost their monarchy, its restoration is largely unrealistic. Perhaps Russians' attitude to monarchy should be similar to that of the Jews to the Temple of Jerusalem: We should mourn its loss every day without trying to rebuild it.
But then again, as my monarchist friends say, when the right time comes, God will simply make manifest the Tsar.

 

[AdmiralSteven]

Hello everyone, I know I don't post here very often, in fact, I can't remember the last time I did post, so let me re-introduce myself; my name is Steven, I go by AdmiralSteven, and I'm from Massachusetts, USA, Cape Cod to be exact, and I've always been interested in royalty.

Under the current circumstances, I do not think that the Russian government will take any steps toward putting any extra burden on the budget.

I wanted to comment, or ask a question I guess, on the above post by Al_bina. Russia has both a President and a Prime Minister. Both have offices with staff, and I would assume that both require some form of security 24/7. I would also venture a guess that the immediate families of both would get some form of security as well. Like the United States, England and any other country, the head of the government, whatever the name of the title is, would live in some form of government housing. Soooo, wouldn't you just be exchanging the office of President for a Tsar? Now I know there are going to be costs and expesnes I don't know about, but there's gotta be some costs that wouldn't change all that much. Just a thought/question. Thanks for letting me post.

 

[icedemigod12]

Rest of the article:

Agreed. After everything that happened with the Revolution and Communism, there's hardly a chance that Russia will become a monarchy once again. Still, it would be nice if this were to happen, although I'd rather call for a constitutional monarchy rather than an absolute one since the load will not fall to one person alone, given how large Russia is.
Anyway, you're still right. The best we can do now is mourn the loss of the monarchy as a dark period in Russian history.

 

[Star of Persia]

Maybe Vladimir Putin will be proclaimed Tsar of All Russias.

That makes more sense than any of the current Romanovs.

There have been rumors he is related to the princely line of Putjatin.

Maybe little Prince Roman didn't die in infancy after all.

 

[Star of Persia]

Agreed. After everything that happened with the Revolution and Communism, there's hardly a chance that Russia will become a monarchy once again.

Stalin is being restored for the huge Red Army parade in Moscow on May 9th.

Just when it seems a restoration of the Monarchy is within reach, something
like that happens.

But I still have hope.