Monaco's succession issues


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I would only add that adoption is no longer an option for Monaco. In extending the succession into the collatoral lines the new laws did away with the adoption provision.

I would also add that the laws also extend the succession only to the decendants of Prince Rainier meaning that Princess Antoinette and her progeny are still excluded.


The issue of Caroline's title and status is one I frequently hear. First, and foremost she is of the exact same rank as she was since the day Albert was born. Her marriage to Ernst August did not change her rank, precedence, or status!! It merely changed her "title." She is now offically HRH The Princess of Hanover. However, the Hanover titles are merely surnames now and not titles. The designation of Royal Highness ceased to exist in Germany at the same time the monarchy did. They still use the title, but it has no legal validity.

Caroline is still outranked by her father and her brother!!! In fact, Ernst August gets HIS rank from being married to Caroline not the other way around. She, as the daughter of a reingning monarch, has the rank he has none what-so-ever as the head of a former dynasty that reigned a very, very long time ago. When they go to a wedding or ball they are ranked as Caroline and spouse and are placed in order with the children of other monarchs and their spouses. If they were ranked as merely HRH The Prince/ss of Hanover without Caroline's status as Rainier's daughter they would not even be seated with the royals.

I would also note that rank does not derive from titles or styles (all forms of Highness and Majesty are styles not titles) they are ranked by their status as a reigning monarch or by closeness to their respective monarch. Caroline's new name as HRH The Princess of Hanover has in no way affected her rank or status except to swell her head.

HM The Queen Elizabeth II, HSH The Prince of Monaco, and HIM The Emorer of Japan are all equal under the terms of international protocal. They are ranked by years on the throne which means right now Prince Rainier is the highest ranking monarch in the world. If all the monarchs were at a UN summit (just for example) the seating would be Rainier, Elizabeth, ect....

Caroline's status is equal to that of all the other children of a monarch (excepting the heir's). Her husband is in the same position as Rear Admiral Laurence is in the UK.

Princess Grace always curtseyed to Queens/kings/emporers, ect.......however this was NEVER ever necessary as she was of equal rank.

I would just also add that Andrea takes part in the same number of events that he has taken part in as a child roughly no more or less. He is just more visible and sought after now.
 
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THANK YOU!!! That was so interesting. I would have never known about the ranking of monarchs! The fact that Ranier is the highest ranking monarch is very interesting.

I had figured as much about the 'Hanover' title, but had never asked. Thank you for the great information!
 
Future of Monaco

Monaco broods future after Rainier's reign

By Elizabeth Bryant
UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL
Monaco, Monaco, Dec. 16 (UPI) -- In a cliff-top castle overlooking the Mediterranean ocean, Europe's oldest and longest-living monarch is failing, his days -- so local gossip has it -- numbered.

For over half a century, Prince Rainier of Monaco has presided over the extraordinary transformation of a mile-square outcrop of sheep-nibbled land into one of the world's most glamorous and moneyed hubs.

Today, as Monaco contemplates life after its 81-year-old monarch, it is trying to reposition itself to remain on top of an increasingly competitive and interconnected Europe -- and to shake its reputation as a mecca for tax evaders and crooks.

Monaco's government argues the principality has tightened its fiscal policies, and diversified its economy. Today, officials suggest, this sun-washed principality offers the face of 21st-century Europe.

But skeptics wonder about the fate of Monaco and of handful of other very small European countries -- medieval-era throwbacks with few obvious attractions beyond their allure as tax havens.

"It's a very interesting case in Europe that these principalities have managed to survive," said Daniel Keohane, senior analyst at the London-based Center for European Reform. "They're tiny places that don't have many natural resources. And with the pressure to reform themselves, the pressure will also be on them to survive economically."

It's hard to imagine hard times hitting Monaco. For 700 years, this Riviera city state has been ruled by the Grimaldi family, with periodic intervention from Paris.

From its yacht-choked port to its hilly, bougainvillea-dotted borders, modern Monaco is a study in concrete and human ingenuity. Just about every square inch is filled with expensive boutiques and high-rise apartments. Bulldozers bite into the earth, creating more for sale at breathtaking prices.

A two-bedroom penthouse overlooking the port costs more than $2.5 million. A villa advertised at another realtor goes for nearly $9 million -- or a mere $16,000 in monthly rent.

"Prices remain extremely high," said one real estate agent, Benjamin Clement. "If nothing else, I'd expect they might increase a bit."

Those snapping up the property include the movie stars, sports celebrities and business magnates who account for more than three-quarters of Monaco's 32,000 residents -- and who flocked to Monaco during the golden days of Rainier's movie-star wife, Princess Grace.

But in recent years Monaco has attracted more unsavory characters, including reputed members of Italian and eastern European mafia.

In 2000, the French government issued a pair of tough reports, accusing Monaco of tolerating money laundering and other financial improprieties. Then in 2002, a French judge published a juicy book about money laundering and a co-opted judiciary during his 1990s years as magistrate in Monaco.

Each charge has been angrily rebutted by the principality, which has suggested France -- which supplies Monaco's top ministers, judges and police officers -- was being disingenuous.

But the news coming from Monaco these days is more promising. Although it remains on an Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development short list of "non-cooperating tax havens," it was removed in 2001 from a gray list of money laundering states compiled by the Paris-based Financial Action Task Force.

"Today there is the minimum amount of satisfactory protection, but they're far from being the best," said Andre Jacquemet, a member of the French branch of Transparency International, a watchdog group.

Jacquemet believes Monaco could do more to clean up its image. "But viewed from the outside, you could say that all the right elements to fight against money laundering exist in Monaco."

Nonetheless, Monaco has quietly expelled a number of questionable residents in recent years, most of them from Eastern and Southern Europe. And earlier this month, the principality -- along with tiny Liechtenstein and San Marino -- signed an agreement with the European Union to begin levying taxes on business profits.

"I think Monaco's starting to play another card," said author Frederic Laurent, who published a thick book on the principality last year. "Not as a place known for its money laundering, but as a place known for being clean financially -- for being a place of excellence."

In an interview in his office near Rainier's castle, State Minister Patrick Leclercq talked about the principality's economic shift from traditional engines of tourism, banking and gaming to commerce, which accounted for 42 percent of Monaco's private-sector earnings last year.

And he pointed to a pair of new agreements with France to grant Monaco greater political independence -- including the possibility of appointing native Monegasques to head the government for the first time. Within an expanding EU that Monaco does not belong to, he suggested, the tiny principality can compete and thrive.

"Of course, Monaco can survive in the future," Leclercq said. "Look at what happened to Yugoslavia, or at decentralization in France. Look at the autonomous regions in Spain, which are getting more and more powers."

But in the short-term, Leclercq said, there is no question of Monaco changing its tax-free resident status, which most recently drew millionaire Mohamed al-Fayed.

Monaco's future is a much-discussed subject among ordinary Monegasques as well, and not just for economic reasons. Rainier has been in and out of the hospital for apparent respiratory ailments. Rumors -- denied by the royal palace -- have been flying of his imminent death.

The romantic troubles of Rainier's popular daughters, Princesses Caroline and Stephanie, are regular fodder in the tabloid press, much to local dismay. And Prince Albert, Rainier's retiring, 46-year-old son and heir apparent, remains an unknown quantity.

In Monaco's balmy December air, an uneasy fin-de-reign aura lingers.

"We need something to renew the principality," said one young Monegasque businessman. "Maybe Albert will bring a fresh breath of air."

But nobody is talking about the end of the Grimaldi royal dynasty -- certainly not 60-year-old native Bernard Vatrican.

"Monaco was created by princes and foreigners. They're the ones who brought wealth to the country," said Vatrican, as he sat in his apartment overlooking Monaco's twinkling bay one recent evening. "If we have real democracy here, it would be the end of Monaco."
 
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Andrea Grimaldi

Just wondering. If/When Andrea Casiraghi assumes the throne in Monaco, will he change his name to Grimaldi? Can/Will Prince Albert elevate his nieces and nephews to Serene Highnesses (the Casiraghis, at least) when he takes the throne?
 
name

I thinks that the Prince Albert must adopt Andrea for he can acess to te throne ! so he must change his name !
 
I don´t know, but maybe he does.
I don´t think that Andrea´s heir will has the surname Casiraghi, ´couse the family is Grimaldi, but maybe Andrea use the Casiraghi-Grimaldi while is he reing, but his son will be a Grimaldi., that´s i think.
 
Andrea is in line after his mother unless Albert marriages and has a legitimate heir. If Albert does it pushes them back with each child Albert has. It use to be that it could only be a Grimaldi to rule why Rainier's father took the name on marriage. And Albert doesn't have to adopt him. Its said in the 2002 changes to the Constitution.
 
Piewi said:
I don´t know, but maybe he does.
I don´t think that Andrea´s heir will has the surname Casiraghi, ´couse the family is Grimaldi, but maybe Andrea use the Casiraghi-Grimaldi while is he reing, but his son will be a Grimaldi., that´s i think.
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I like the sound of Casiraghi-Grimaldi ^___^ Do you think Andrea's children would also take this surname or just Grimaldi or just Casiraghi???
 
Reading your post's all I can say is Albert II as he will be known has just become Regent due to his father's health. Being around his age you all are making me feel really old Albert has many years ahead. And don't forget Princess Caroline would become Regent before Andrea.
 
Just Grimaldi

Casiraghi-Grimaldi sounds great, Hillary!
 
I've learn somewhere that caroline can access to the trone because women are not abble to reign in monaco . For the Princess Charlotte it was different because her father doesn't have any heir "male" so she was obliged to reign but now If Albert doesn't have children there are heir male (Andrea, Pierre or Louis !)
 
Futur

... After Albert is Andrea .
Caroline can't become The Regent ...
Albert is new Regent but i don't know if he will adopt Andrea.
I think Andrea changes her name : ANDREA CASIRAGHI-GRIMALDI to become Regent of Monaco.


If Albert not marry / no children :

When Andrea will become The Prince of Monaco ??

- After Albert died or ... ? :(



KISS :)
 
LadyMacAlpine described the Monaco line of ascendency very well in another thread.

"The line of succession is as follows Albert, Caroline, Andrea, Pierre, Charlotte, Alexandria, Stephanie, Louis, and Pauline. Male heirs always before female except in the case of Princess Victoria their law was changed to be the first born."
 
smdouglas is correct. Caroline is next in line after Albert after the change in the constitution.
 
Josefine said:
does anyone know more about this
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Kittencrew has the correct order of succession minus Camille as montecarlo said however due to the changes in the Constituation in 2002 an adopted child is no longer eligable. With the changes and other things even if the Grimaldi line ends Monaco will remain an independant state from France etc etc. Many errors will be seen in the press over the next several weeks to months due to not having their files updated as the laws changed. I won't be at all surprised to see claims from woman that Albert fathered their child over the next year or so. Thats a feeling based on past claims and history of Monarchs. Albert is free to acknowledge any child he might have fathered. Unless he legally marries the mother the child is not an heir.
 
Although I woun't hold my breath, I do hope that Albert will marry soon and one day have children.
 
Gisele Laetitia said:
Hey guys!
I know this topic has been kind of deserted :rolleyes:....but::
You were all talking about ALBERT not getting married, but you would have the same problem
with Andrea!!! Knowing he is also a little of a playboy, I dont see him getting married before he's like 30! I mean, in Monaco, in order to maintain inheritance of the throne, wouldnt you have to be married?? For me, it would be logical, that Caroline would rule, and áfter her Andrea would rule, cause, be honest here y'all, Andrea won't be married that soon right!!??
ANyway, let me know (please) what you all think about this....
Bye!!!
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With Albert, chances are slim he'd settle down for the sake of succession. With Andrea, he's still young! He can be a playboy for several more years and still marry and have children after he's sown his wild oats, so to speak.
 
since andrea is closer to becoming ruler than ever before, shouldn't the palace inform the monegasque public of what he's been up to? like where he goes to uni, or what he's studying...whether he'd go into military or not... things like that, same way as the brits are informed by a palace spokesperson of what wills will do with his life?
 
There was a report on Andrea's possibility of inheriting the throne today on ET. He failed his major exams so he isnt going to university or anything i think, its not one of his strong points. They are linking him with Princess Beatrice of England (how they would have to change their religions)and also talked about Tatiana Dominguez or whatever her name is.
 
I know there's practically no possibility of this but i'd like to see Stephanie's Louis inherit the throne. He seems like the diamond in the ruff!
 
I hope that Andrea do that exam and enter to university, it is time to do that ( or something, i know he has money and he can travel and have fun, but he must do something). playboy or not i hope he find a girl who love him, maybe not now, but i hope that in his 30 he will be marry!( and study or work!)
 
I found this link

http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/rainiermonacolastwill.htm

Last will of Fuerst Rainier of Monaco
given to the public on August 3, 2004
(Charlotte Casiraghi's 18th birthday)
​


Since a constitutional change implemented by Princely Law 1.249 of April 2, 2002, succession to the crown of Monaco passes to the descendants of the reigning prince in accordance with male-preference primogeniture. Currently, the line of succession is:

Son Altesse Sérénissime Rainier Louis Henri Maxence Bertrand Grimaldi, Le Prince de Monaco (born May 31, 1923), is the current Prince and Head of State of the Principality of Monaco.

The line of succession is as follows:

1 - Son Altesse Sérénissime le Prince Héréditaire de Monaco, Marquis de Baux (Prince Albert)

2 - Sa Altesse Royale la Princesse Caroline de Hannovre née Princesse de
Monaco

3 - Andrea Casiraghi

4 - Pierre Casiraghi

5 - Charlotte Casiraghi

6 - Sa Altesse Royale la Princesse Alexandra de Hannovre

7 - Sa Altesse Sérénissime la Princesse Stéphanie de Monaco

8 - Louis Ducruet

9 - Pauline Ducruet

10 - Sa Altesse Sérénissime la Princesse Antoinette de Monaco, Baronesse de Massy

11 - Christian Baron de Massy

12 - Antoine Baron de Massy

13 - Laetizia Baronesse de Massy

14 - Elizabeth-Ann Baronesse de Massy

15 - Jean-Léonard Taubert Natta

16 - Mélanie de Lusignan

17 - Keith Sebastian Knecht
 
lashinka2002 said:
I also found this link as well

http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal2/monacoarticle.htm
Click to expand...
I was reading the link and saw an error which John Glatt and everyone else in the press seems to make.
Her third husband, Prince Ernst of Hanover, was a man whom Grace had originally hoped her daughter would marry. If the late princess were still alive, however, she might have changed her mind about him. Under Salic law (which prohibits succession in the female line), Ernst would be the British king rather than just the Prince of Hanover. That Salic law does not apply in Britain is fortunate, as the prince's exploits include relieving himself on the Turkish tent at the Hanover Expo 2000, being fined £7,000 for kicking a sound engineer, assaulting journalists, beating up a disco manager, and throwing mozzarella round a Salzburg restaurant, hitting a baron on the head in the process.
Click to expand...

Under Salic law (which prohibits succession in the female line), Ernst would be the British king rather than just the Prince of Hanover.
Click to expand...

​
HanoverHouse_title.gif





British royal house of German origin, descended from George Louis, elector of Hanover, who succeeded to the British crown, as George I, in 1714. The dynasty provided six monarchs: George I (reigned 1714–27), George II (reigned 1727–60), George III (reigned 1760–1820), George IV (reigned 1820–30), William IV (reigned 1830–37), and Victoria (reigned 1837–1901). It was succeeded by the house of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, which was renamed in 1917 the house of Windsor.​


After the English Revolution of 1688–89, the Act of Settlement of 1701 secured the English crown to Protestants. It made Anne (of the house of Stuart) the heir presumptive; and, if she lacked issue, the crown was to go to Sophia, electress of Hanover (granddaughter of James I), and her descendants, passing over many Roman Catholics in the normal line of succession. The electress predeceased Anne by two months, and the crown went to Sophia's son, George I. The first two Georges were considered foreigners, especially by many Scots, and in 1715 and 1745 the Stuart claimants—James Edward, the Old Pretender, and Charles Edward, the Young Pretender—vainly attempted to regain the throne. George III, born in England, achieved wider British recognition.
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From http://www.hfac.uh.edu/gbrown/philosophers/leibniz/BritannicaPages/HanoverHouse/HanoverHouse.html



As it is clearly written in paragraph two the crown passed to George I through a woman. Therefore had the Salic or Salique Law applied the Hanovers wouldn't have ruled Britain. The Throne of Monaco has also passed through woman more then once. The link will give you information on the lineage. http://www.monaco.mc/monaco/700ans/hist.html#2
 
I think Albert should marry, i'm not saying he should rush into it, but i feel i wife beside him and family will help ease the burden of his royal duties. This would also ease the pressure of PC and her son, because obviously they are next in line!!!

He's handsome, young - he should go for it!!!
 
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