Mary, Queen of Scots (1542-1587)


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Mary's 1st marriagn

Well, I have enjoyed reading through this thread. I am currently reading a bio of QEI by Alison Wier and I am in the Mary drama now.

I appears that she got pregnant quickly with Darnley. Does anyone know why she apparently never even conceived with her first husband? I believe they were living together as man and wife for at least a year, right?

Anyway, just curious.

Ana
 
Francis was sickly and after their marriage, he died after a year.

Thing is, Mary wasn't brought up to rule, she was brought up to be a consort, wife, ornament to a cultured court, not as an administrator.

During the critical years of her development, she was spoiled and pampered and feted, not at all required to learn and participate in the day to day running of the country, or her country.

After Francis died, her charmed life ended and she had no idea how to handle it. Her whole life was then dedicated trying to recreate the carefree effortless past of her childhood and teenage years.

Then she went to Scotland and couldn't handle it.

I don't blame her for not doing too well, her nobility was bought and paid for by Elizabeth and her nobility spent so much time asserting themselves against her that she couldn't accomplish anything at all of substance.
 
Mary's first husband, Francis II of France died in 1560.
Mary returned to Scotland nine months after Francis' death.
Other than Archduke Charles of Austria and Don Carlos of Spain, were any other royal princes or kings considered as a possible spouse for Mary?
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In Kings & Queens, Richard Cavendish and Pip Leahy wrote:

Mary always styled herself Marie Stuart, in the French fashion.
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In Elizabeth Virgin Queen, Philippa Jones wrote:

In less than a year, Mary and Darnley had come to dislike each other intensely. Thomas Randolph, the English Ambassador to Scotland, wrote to Cecil, 'I know now for certain that the Queen repenteth her marriage, that she hateth the King and all his kin...'
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Mary of Guise ruled Scotland as regent for her daughter, Queen Mary.
Was Mary of Guise the sole regent?
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An Ard Ri said:
Her Guise also uncles had hoped that Mary might also marry one of the Valois Princes,but Catherine de Médicis rejected any such marriage negotiations for her sons.
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Of the Valois Princes, Charles (Charles IX), Henry (Henry III), and Hercule Francois, Duke of Anjou, did Mary's Guise uncles focus their attention on any of these Princes in particular as a second spouse for Mary?
​
 
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Concerning Mary's twins who were supposed to be stillborn, I remember a person on another forum many years ago--ten or so--who said that he was descended from one of the twins. He said that they were taken secretly to France, possibly by Lady Mar, and raised there in total secrecy, since it was known that the Scottish nobles were hostile to Mary. He had some interesting evidence, as I recall, and it sounded to me like he could be telling the truth.
 
CyrilVladisla said:
Mary of Guise ruled Scotland as regent for her daughter, Queen Mary.
Was Mary of Guise the sole regent?
​
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Marie de Guise replaced James Hamilton, Duke of Châtellerault and 2nd Earl of Arran as sole Regent of Scotland in 1554.
 
Grace Angel said:
Mary Queen of Scots was a very beautiful, tragic woman who was born to James V and Marie of Guise, she grew up as an only child and fatherless as he father died around the time of her birth, so she became queen. She grew up in France because she was betrothed to the Dauphin, Francis, son of Catharine de Medici and Henri III. When they were teenagers, she and the Dauphin married, but he was sickly and died as a teenager not long after.

So as a childless teenage widow she went home to Scotland to rule it. She was more French than Scottish in some ways because she had been brought up in France, not in fairly rough Scotland. So in some ways she never fitted in- her religion was Roman Catholicism, and that of many of the Scottish, Calvinism. She thus was some ways not suited to be Queen there. She had to find someone suitable to marry as she had to have heirs so she married Henry, Lord Darnely who was a cousin, descendent of Henry VII and of his daughter Margaret Tudor by her second marriage. She was infatutated with Henry, Lord Darnely but he was a foolish immature youth with little to recomend him beyond his royal blood and distant claim to the sucession to the English throne. Their marriage quickly went downhill once the infatuation wore off although they soon had a healthy son together, the future James VI of England. During her pregnancy with their son, he killed Mary's secretary an Italian Catholic named Rizzio because he thought Mary and this man were having an affair, although they were not. Henry and Mary's marriage became unbearable, but it ended when Henry died in mysterious circumstances among whispers he was murdered by Mary or men who were working for Mary. It was never proven, but whispers about Mary being a murderess soon sprung up to ruin her reputation.

She tried to rule Scotland after Darnley's death, but she was very unpopular and had a bad reputation, not helped by her marriage to the Earl of Bothwell, a Scottish noble who rumor had it had a hand in the murder of Darnley. So she looked bad married to a man who might have killed her husband or had a hand in it, it looked like she was to blame. But Bothwell had a lot of military power. She was soon expecting twins with Bothwell, but her marriage to him was very unpopular with Scotland. She eventually miscarried the twins and lost her throne in Scotland because even though Bothwell had military power, he and she both were very unpopular and she knew she was no longer welcome in Scotland, so after losing battles against forces in Scotland and being a prisoner for awhile in Scotland, she fled to England.

She always maintained as mentioned above she had a claim to the English throne since to her, as a Roman Catholic, the marriage of Elizabeth's parents had not been legitimate. She was a prisoner her whole time in England though because Elizabeth I felt she was a political threat, which she was. She plotted from her imprisonment in various plots to put herself on the throne and take Elizabeth off. She had been a famous beauty in her day but she grew older and her beauty faded in captivity, although early on in her captivity, part of one plot to put on her on the throne called for her to marry the Duke of Norfolk, a leading peer of England. Elizabeth was relunctant to exceute her but after she caught Mary in a plot directly she decided she had to execute her. So she was beheaded in 1587, a year before the Spanish Armada reached England. Elizabeth didn't want to, but she was compelled to have Mary put to death as Mary couldn't stop plottong in captivity her escape and Elizabeth's death. James, then a young man ruling Scotland ( in his childhood a regency had ruled for him) had never known his mother and thus didn't step in and also he wanted to have the English sucession, so that was another reason he did nothing. All in all, Mary's was a sad life. A good bio of her is the one by Antonia Fraser.
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Q


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CyrilVladisla said:
Mary's first husband, Francis II of France died in 1560.
Mary returned to Scotland nine months after Francis' death.
Other than Archduke Charles of Austria and Don Carlos of Spain, were any other royal princes or kings considered as a possible spouse for Mary?
​
Click to expand...
Elizabeth blocked any suitor, making it clear that a marriage to Mary would be equivalent to declaring war on England. So Mary was limited in her choices.
 
AristoCat said:
Elizabeth blocked any suitor, making it clear that a marriage to Mary would be equivalent to declaring war on England. So Mary was limited in her choices.
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Her Guise also uncles had hoped that Mary might also marry one of the Valois Princes,but Catherine de Médicis rejected any such marriage negotiations for her sons.
 
CyrilVladisla said:


Of the Valois Princes, Charles (Charles IX), Henry (Henry III), and Hercule Francois, Duke of Anjou, did Mary's Guise uncles focus their attention on any of these Princes in particular as a second spouse for Mary?
​
Click to expand...

The Guise brothers were Mary Queen of Scots uncles and her mothers brothers.

Francis de Lorraine,Prince of Joinville, Duc de Guise,Duke d'Aumale.
Charles of Guise,Archbishop of Reims and Cardinal of Lorraine.
René, Marquis of Elbeuf
Louis Cardinal of Guise



They proposed a marriage between Mary & Charles IX,but Catherine rejected this as she was very suspicious about the House of Guise and did not want them wielding any power.
 
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Mary Queen of Scots was also Duchess consort of Touraine during her short marriage to François II.


Portrait of Mary I of Scotland c1555 by François Clouet.

YoungMaryStuart.jpg
 
An Ard Ri said:
Several interesting articles on Mary,Queen of Scots

Tea at Trianon: The Real Mary Queen of Scots


Tea at Trianon: The Return of Mary Queen of Scots

Tea at Trianon: The Burial of Mary Queen of Scots
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Thank you for posting. Obviously this assessment is very sympathetic to Mary.

I find it hard to believe she was directly involved in her husband's murder (and he certainly deserved it). We'll probably never know the truth about her relationship with Bothwell. Regarding her execution, Mary was definitely involved in the Babington plot, but Elizabeth was holding her prisoner.
 
Mary's maternal grandmother,Antoinette de Bourbon-Vendôme,Duchesse de Guise lived a very long life (1494-1583).

Antoinette_de_Bourbon_Limousin.jpg
 
I wonder how different things might have been if Mary hadn't married Darnley, or had simply gone to France when she was fleeing her rebel lords.
 
AristoCat said:
I wonder how different things might have been if Mary hadn't married Darnley, or had simply gone to France when she was fleeing her rebel lords.
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Mary could have gone to France but would her former mother in law,Queen Catherine have allowed it?
 
Mary is kind of the poster child for the why women shouldn't rule brigade. It's unfortunate seeing as how she had so many role models around her who did it well: her own mother, her mother in law and Elizabeth I. Scotland was definitely a hard place to govern UT her French mother pulled it off.
 
Marie of Guise wasn't perhaps quite so successful as has been portrayed. Her Secretary William Maitland had great influence over Marie and ultimately betrayed her to her enemies. By the last year of her life there was a battle for control of Scotland and she was in dire straits.
 
Curryong said:
Marie of Guise wasn't perhaps quite so successful as has been portrayed. Her Secretary William Maitland had great influence over Marie and ultimately betrayed her to her enemies. By the last year of her life there was a battle for control of Scotland and she was in dire straits.
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Her illness may have played a big part in her latter years and her decisions.While there's no denying her tenacity I doubt even the courageous Marie de Guise could deal with the complex Scottish Lords during her short Regency.Also her main supporter,Henri II of France had died in July 1559 and left France bankrupt .
 
Mary's son James received a full and gory account of Mary's execution from Archibald Douglas, the Earl of Angus. James seemed disinclined to believe it until he heard from Elizabeth's ambassador to Scotland, Sir Robert Carey.

There then followed several letters between Elizabeth and James in which Elizabeth seems to have stated that her Secretary Francis Davison had arranged the execution (after bringing her Council together) without her specific permission.

She did admit that, after hearing reports of a rescue by Spanish and French agents plus a planned invasion of England, she had signed Mary's death warrant.

Personally I do believe Elizabeth balked at putting her cousin to death, but in the end yielded to persuasion by her Ministers.
 
Curryong said:
She did admit that, after hearing reports of a rescue by Spanish and French agents plus a planned invasion of England, she had signed Mary's death warrant.
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Mary was found guilty in the Babington Plot back in October 1586, sentenced was published December 1586. The warrant was drawn up by Cecil at that point. Elizabeth did not sign the death warrant until February 1, 1587.
 
What Mary should have done to safeguard her position was to give her French husband Francis II a son. (I know he was sickly, but that would have saved her). She would remain Queen Regent instead of Catherine Medici, and not have needed to go to Scotland at all.


(Although...I once read a comment that if Elizabeth had been Queen of Scots, she'd have been proud of them and gloried in the role. Mary didn't think much of her own people and much preferred France.)
 
Yes, she would have been safe and happy with the birth of a son. However, there were doubts expressed about whether the marriage had even been consummated, weren't there? Some reports have it that Francis had not reached puberty at the time of his death. There were worries expressed over his physique since babyhood.
 
Curryong said:
Yes, she would have been safe and happy with the birth of a son. However, there were doubts expressed about whether the marriage had even been consummated, weren't there? Some reports have it that Francis had not reached puberty at the time of his death. There were worries expressed over his physique since babyhood.
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By all accounts he adored Mary, and would have accepted any child she had.
And who could object? Catherine's second son was known to be mentally disturbed, so perhaps everyone would have preferred Mary's child.
 
Who knows! It was an unusual case, wasn't it, for one sovereign country to have a ruler who was queen consort of another? I can't believe that those who pressed for her marriage to the French heir didn't foresee any future difficulties.

Scotland experienced regular eruptions among its noblemen in Mary's lifetime and I really think Scotland would have preferred a king born and reared on home turf. A Prince born in France and brought up there might have been too much for the Scots to stomach. After all, when he became monarch his first allegiance would always have to be France, the more important realm.

If Mary and Francis had experienced a normal married life and produced several living children I suppose it might have been possible for her second son to be king of Scotland. After all, that was the way the Normans and some early Plantagenets played it, but there would still be great difficulties.

There's the religious question too. Calvinism was making great strides in Scotland during Mary's lifetime. Would the nation have accepted a Roman Catholic king?
 
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