Marie Chantal, Crown Princess Pavlos Jewellery 1: Ending 2023

[muriel]

As Mbruno mentioned above, it is not known who the current owner is, nor to whom Frederika left the tiara. I think she might have left it to Pavlos in order to skip inheritance taxes for one generation. But this is only my speculation.

But if willed to Pavlos, he would have had to pay inheritance tax as he was resident in the UK at the time.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

But if willed to Pavlos, he would have had to pay inheritance tax as he was resident in the UK at the time.

Maybe Queen Frederika gifted it more than 7 years before her passing away:

Years between gift and death
3 to 4 years 32%
4 to 5 years 24%
5 to 6 years 16%
6 to 7 years 8%
7 or more 0%

 

[Mbruno]

Maybe Queen Frederika gifted it more than 7 years before her passing away:

Years between gift and death
3 to 4 years 32%
4 to 5 years 24%
5 to 6 years 16%
6 to 7 years 8%
7 or more 0%

Crown Prince Pavlos was 13 (?) when Queen Frederica died in 1981. Seven years before that, he would be a 6 or 7-year-old boy. I find it unlikely that Queen Frederica would have willed one of her most substantial pieces of jewelry to a young boy or a pre-teen.

 

[JR76]

Wouldn't Pavlos only have had to pay UK inheritance tax if he was an UK citizen at the time of his grandmother's death. The Greek Royal family were still Greek citizens at the time (until 1994) and I seem to remember that they also had Danish diplomatic passports.

 

[Stefan]

Crown Prince Pavlos was 13 (?) when Queen Frederica died in 1981. Seven years before that, he would be a 6 or 7-year-old boy. I find it unlikely that Queen Frederica would have willed one of her most substantial pieces of jewelry to a young boy or a pre-teen.

Specially Queen Friederike died quiet young and unexpected.

 

[Stefan]

As Mbruno mentioned above, it is not known who the current owner is, nor to whom Frederika left the tiara. I think she might have left it to Pavlos in order to skip inheritance taxes for one generation. But this is only my speculation.

But quiet strange then that his wife debuted it only after 17 years of marriage.

 

[JR76]

Crown Prince Pavlos was 13 (?) when Queen Frederica died in 1981. Seven years before that, he would be a 6 or 7-year-old boy. I find it unlikely that Queen Frederica would have willed one of her most substantial pieces of jewelry to a young boy or a pre-teen.

If Frederika willed the tiara to Pavlos she didn't will it to just any pre-teen, but to the possible future kng of the Hellenes or at least to the future head of the House of Greece.

 

[Tilia C.]

But if willed to Pavlos, he would have had to pay inheritance tax as he was resident in the UK at the time.

He would. But they skipped inheritance tax for one generation. Had King Kontantin inherited the tiara, he would have paid tax, then after his death Pavlos would have to pay tax again. With skipping one generation, tax was also evaded for that one generation. But as I said, I don't really know if that was the reason behind it.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Specially Queen Friederike died quiet young and unexpected.

And left an impressive jewel collection for the exiled Greek RF.

 

[wartenberg7]

Crown Prince Pavlos was 13 (?) when Queen Frederica died in 1981. Seven years before that, he would be a 6 or 7-year-old boy. I find it unlikely that Queen Frederica would have willed one of her most substantial pieces of jewelry to a young boy or a pre-teen.

Well, she knew that her daughter-in-law as Queen of Greece was in charge of all important greek royal jewels of a female royal consort, like the ruby set with the laureal tiara and the famous emeralds. Perhaps the Queenmother wanted to make sure, that the future wife of the Crown Prince needed a proper tiara a Crown Princess worthy...? I think in Queen Fredericas mind it never occured that her family might never ever return on the throne again (she lived in a centuy where the greek royal dynasty were opposed and returned to the throne over and over again...! In her time a Queen and a future Queen had to look regal and representative and wearing modest small tiaras, even Queens, we see often today was hardly the thing to do back then).
Frederica herself inherited it when she got married to the CP of Greece.
Marie-Chantal using it from time to time is, IMO, proof that this beautiful piece was, all these years, still in the property of the greek royal house and just withheld for this period of time.

 

[wartenberg7]

If Frederika willed the tiara to Pavlos she didn't will it to just any pre-teen, but to the possible future kng of the Hellenes or at least to the future head of the House of Greece.

That´s right!

 

[Mbruno]

That´s right!

But, while he was a minor, his parents would be in custody of the estate he inherited unless it was placed in an independent trust fund, which I am not sure Queen Frederica would even have the time to do given her sudden death at a relatively young age. Maybe her original will had Pavlos as a beneficiary because she assumed at the time that she would live longer and Pavlos would not inherit it until he was already of age or even married. In any case, barring some future tax concerns, it would be more natural to leave the tiara to her son, not her underage grandson.


The Court Jeweller has an alternative theory that Queen Frederica might have actually left that tiara to Princess Irene instead and Pavlos (or Marie-Chantal) may have bought it back many years later. I don't know if that is plausible, but Queen Frederica also gifted jewelry to Princess (later Queen) Sofia, so it is unlikely that Irene would have gotten nothing.

 

[Stefan]

The Court Jeweller has an alternative theory that Queen Frederica might have actually left that tiara to Princess Irene instead and Pavlos (or Marie-Chantal) may have bought it back many years later. I don't know if that is plausible, but Queen Frederica also gifted jewelry to Princess (later Queen) Sofia, so it is unlikely that Irene would have gotten nothing.

But Irene had got the circle tiara from her mother and the convertible pearl necklace/tiara.

 

[Mbruno]

But Irene had got the circle tiara from her mother and the convertible pearl necklace/tiara.

OK, so that probably fulfills her "quota".

 

[muriel]

Wouldn't Pavlos only have had to pay UK inheritance tax if he was an UK citizen at the time of his grandmother's death. The Greek Royal family were still Greek citizens at the time (until 1994) and I seem to remember that they also had Danish diplomatic passports.

I am no tax expert, but Pavlos would have been subject to UK tax if he had been resident in the UK. I do not think citizenship has an impact on the tax status in the UK.

 

[muriel]

The Court Jeweller has an alternative theory that Queen Frederica might have actually left that tiara to Princess Irene instead and Pavlos (or Marie-Chantal) may have bought it back many years later. I don't know if that is plausible, but Queen Frederica also gifted jewelry to Princess (later Queen) Sofia, so it is unlikely that Irene would have gotten nothing.

But Irene had got the circle tiara from her mother and the convertible pearl necklace/tiara.

I actually do think the tiara could have ended up with Irene, despite having received other tiaras from Queen Frederica. As the only unmarried daughter, Frederica may well have decided to leave the large tiara as an extra bit of inheritance. My guess is that Frederica may not have been particularly cash rich at the time of her death, having lived in exile for over a decade, and this may have been her way of providing for Irene.

 

[muriel]

But quiet strange then that his wife debuted it only after 17 years of marriage.

I agree that it is odd that M-C took as long as she did to wear the tiara for the first time, but also took another decade to wear it the second time. She is not the most low profile or shy person, so I query why she did not wear it in the intervening years. There were may white tie events she could have worn it to, including the weddings of Madeleine & Chris, or the wedding of Carl-Philip & Sofia, or the 50th birthday of Crown Prince Frederik or the 80th birthday party for the King and Queen of Norway.

 

[JR76]

I am no tax expert, but Pavlos would have been subject to UK tax if he had been resident in the UK. I do not think citizenship has an impact on the tax status in the UK.

Even if Pavlos inherited property from someone who was neither a British citizen (to my knowledge Queen Frederika never claimed a British citizenship via the Sophia Naturalization Act) nor was living in the UK?

 

[muriel]

Even if Pavlos inherited property from someone who was neither a British citizen (to my knowledge Queen Frederika never claimed a British citizenship via the Sophia Naturalization Act) nor was living in the UK?

That would be my understanding.

 

[maria-olivia]

To me Prince Pavlos is not rhe owner of the tiara , his wife should wear it more such as Princess Mary. She borrowed it twice, she has no tiara because the fringe tiara is her Daugther's now.
Queen Anne Marie never gave jewels to her daughters in law , they borrowed 3 times the same wedding tiara.

 

[suztav]

I actually do think the tiara could have ended up with Irene, despite having received other tiaras from Queen Frederica. As the only unmarried daughter, Frederica may well have decided to leave the large tiara as an extra bit of inheritance. My guess is that Frederica may not have been particularly cash rich at the time of her death, having lived in exile for over a decade, and this may have been her way of providing for Irene.

I could very well believe this theory.

 

[muriel]

To me Prince Pavlos is not rhe owner of the tiara , his wife should wear it more such as Princess Mary. She borrowed it twice, she has no tiara because the fringe tiara is her Daugther's now.
Queen Anne Marie never gave jewels to her daughters in law , they borrowed 3 times the same wedding tiara.

This seems very plausible. It is very unlike M-C to not wear the biggest tiara only twice in 27 years of marriage.

 

[wartenberg7]

But, while he was a minor, his parents would be in custody of the estate he inherited unless it was placed in an independent trust fund, which I am not sure Queen Frederica would even have the time to do given her sudden death at a relatively young age. Maybe her original will had Pavlos as a beneficiary because she assumed at the time that she would live longer and Pavlos would not inherit it until he was already of age or even married. In any case, barring some future tax concerns, it would be more natural to leave the tiara to her son, not her underage grandson.


The Court Jeweller has an alternative theory that Queen Frederica might have actually left that tiara to Princess Irene instead and Pavlos (or Marie-Chantal) may have bought it back many years later. I don't know if that is plausible, but Queen Frederica also gifted jewelry to Princess (later Queen) Sofia, so it is unlikely that Irene would have gotten nothing.

What would Irene do with it? Since the end of the monarchy she was hardly seen wearing/ using any tiara! I cannot recall one single event in the last more than 20 years she wore one...! Doesn´t make sense. If she wouldn´t give it to CP Paul, she´d rather give it to her exiled son for his wife to use, to whom she had the best relationship, who always attended big royal events by her danish connection.
Besides, Irene ist still alive. If she received this item as some sort of "retirement provision" she would still keep it. CPcss MC wore the piece many years ago for the 1st time, in 2012, I think.

 

[muriel]

What would Irene do with it? Since the end of the monarchy she was hardly seen wearing/ using any tiara! I cannot recall one single event in the last more than 20 years she wore one...! Doesn´t make sense. If she wouldn´t give it to CP Paul, she´d rather give it to her exiled son for his wife to use, to whom she had the best relationship, who always attended big royal events by her danish connection.
Besides, Irene ist still alive. If she received this item as some sort of "retirement provision" she would still keep it. CPcss MC wore the piece many years ago for the 1st time, in 2012, I think.

My point is that Frederica could have left her grandest tiara to Irene, her unmarried daughter, as a means of financial security.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The Crown Princess wore a long diamond Cross necklace yesterday but I could make out what earrings she was wearing.

 

[samitude]

I know this is rather soon, but will Marie-Chantal start wearing the emerald and ruby tiaras now that she's the wife of the head of the family?

 

[CrownPrincessJava]

I know this is rather soon, but will Marie-Chantal start wearing the emerald and ruby tiaras now that she's the wife of the head of the family?

I very much doubt CP Marie Chantal will wear them as Queen Anne-Marie is still alive and it's very clear the respect and love she had toward her mother-in-law

 

[An Ard Ri]

I know this is rather soon, but will Marie-Chantal start wearing the emerald and ruby tiaras now that she's the wife of the head of the family?

The Crown Princess has plenty of her own jewels and I guess it depends on whether her mother in law lends them to her.

 

[maria-olivia]

The owner of the Fringe tiara is her Daughter . She has no tiara until to day !

 

[kimebear]

The owner of the Fringe tiara is her Daughter . She has no tiara until to day !

MC has access to the magnificent Queen Frederica diamond tiara, which is the really big gun among the Greek jewels. She'll be okay.