LHBTQ+ Royalty

[Lady Marmalade]

I have read many stories about King Ludwig of Bavaria....he had his desires for the men.

 

[Sean.~]

I have read many stories about King Ludwig of Bavaria....he had his desires for the men.

Yes, there have been many stories. For instance, his infatuation with Wagner is quite well known. There is an amussing anecdote about the Bavarian PM coming to the palace in search of the King at a critical political time only to find ludwig playing dress-up with the Prince of Taxis und Thurn...

 

[Lady Marmalade]

You mean Prince von Thurn und Taxis?

 

[Smilla]

I have read many stories about King Ludwig of Bavaria....he had his desires for the men.

And he refused to marry, didn't he, though he quite adored his cousin Elizabeth of Austria. (which is NOT an indication of anything, BTW. Just a fact)

 

[Lady Marmalade]

There was that book....Treasury of Royal Scandals...which talked a great deal about that.

 

[Sean.~]

You mean Prince von Thurn und Taxis?

You are being overly pedantic. In any case, I meant what I wrote. Although Thurn und Taxis is the proper name, members are often referred to as Taxis und Thurn. Same meaning. Speaking of T & T,the late Furst was a alleged to be an open homosexual, and it is quite well known that he he married Gloria of Schonburg-Glauchau to produce an heir.

 

[Smilla]

and it is quite well known that he he married Gloria of Schonburg-Glauchau to produce an heir.

A strategy that did work well.

 

[Sean.~]

And he refused to marry, didn't he, though he quite adored his cousin Elizabeth of Austria. (which is NOT an indication of anything, BTW. Just a fact)

It was a totally plutonic kind of fondness. They were both rather...eccentric...and would send each other letters across the river/creek in bottles, IIRC. It's been a long time, and I will have to pull out Greg King's book to verify this. With regards to marriage, the Empress Marria Feodorovna (wife of Alexander II) wrote to a correspondent that King Ludwig didn't even know where babies came from.

 

[Saragli]

I like to use the Kinsey scale. Some men are gay, some straight and some bi. There is a possibility for everything. I myslef am a bit of a free lover and am attracted to both men and women. I dont think William is gay. If he was his family would probably know about it and they would be grooming Harry instead. Also William promised Harry he would never renounce his rights to the throne or abdicate. He assured Harry he would not give him the burden.

 

[Sean.~]

A strategy that did work well.

Yes, a male heir was produced after two daughters. I guess whatever the case, the arrangement benefited them both. The late Furst's (alleged) reasons for marrying Gloria might explain her odd remarks a few years ago in an interview about how people should only ever have sex to procreate.

 

[Saragli]

With regards to marriage, the Empress Marria Feodorovna (wife of Alexander II) wrote to a correspondent that King Ludwig didn't even know where babies came from.

LOL. That made me laught. Are you serious he had no idea where babies came from. I used to think they popped out of the belly button when I was little but I quikly figured out where they came from.

 

[Sean.~]

LOL. That made me laught. Are you serious he had no idea where babies came from. I used to think they popped out of the belly button when I was little but I quikly figured out where they came from.

The comments were made in a letter around the time he broke of his engagement to Sophie in Bavaria (sister of Siss who later married the Duke d'Alencon) for allegedly having an affair with the court photographer (which no one believed, anyway). Anyway, at the time the Empress wrote that she didn't think that Ludwig was "right in the head", and that his grandfather told Mary Hamilton (of the Dukes Hamilton?) in Paris that Ludwig thought a man could father children by lying in the same bed as a woman.

 

[Sean.~]

And he refused to marry, didn't he, though he quite adored his cousin Elizabeth of Austria. (which is NOT an indication of anything, BTW. Just a fact)

As you may know, he was engaged to Sophie in Bavaria, the sister of Sissi, but broke that off. At one point he inquired about Maria Alexandrovna, daughter of Alexander II (who later went on to become Duchess of Edinburgh), but at the time she was only 10 years old. In any case, the inquiries were only made to placate members of the Munich court.

 

[norwegianne]

A number of posts have been deleted, as they were in no way related to the topic at hand. If you have something personal to discuss with another member, or a moderator for that matter, please do so via a PM. If anybody has any complaint to lodge, please also do so via the PM system, rather than hashing it out in public.

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Norwegianne
Royal Chit Chat moderator Moderator

 

[Sean.~]

"If he was his family would probably know about it and they would be grooming Harry instead"Why? Being gay doesn't preclude him from being king. Indeed, it doesn't stop him from fathering children either. "Also William promised Harry he would never renounce his rights to the throne or abdicate. He assured Harry he would not give him the burden."Again, being gay wouldn't entail renunciation. Also, out of curiousity, when did he make these promises? Are these rumours or can you cite a source?</p>

 

[btsnyder]

I just thought of something interesting...what would happen if there was a gay heir in the Netherlands or Belgium - where same-sex marriage is legal - and the prince/princess wanted to both fulfill their duty AND marry someone they loved? Could be fascinating.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Well, now in Britain too gay marriage is legal. It could apply there too.

 

[btsnyder]

Is it really marriage in Britain, or more like the civil unions we have in Vermont, Connecticut, California, etc.? I saw that it was coming into effect later this month (article about George Michael and his partner..)

 

[BeatrixFan]

Well, they're calling them civil unions but they really are marriage as you can get married in church etc and do the whole vows things. But it is basically marriage - Elton John and George Michael are both doing it in January I think.

 

[JPhinala]

I don't know about the situation for gay men in other countries but I know that if, here (In the US) there were a gay president he'd be shot. I think that for the most part, gay princes in other countries would become EXTREMELY unpopular and that the royal family would become a joke. I'm gay and I think that that's totally horrid but that's what I see as the realistic truth.

 

[Margrethe II]

I don't know about the situation for gay men in other countries but I know that if, here (In the US) there were a gay president he'd be shot. I think that for the most part, gay princes in other countries would become EXTREMELY unpopular and that the royal family would become a joke. I'm gay and I think that that's totally horrid but that's what I see as the realistic truth.

I may not be an American citizen, but to say that a gay president of the United States would be shot, is quite shocking, let alone a sure sign of a backward society.

And the chances of an openly gay president ever being elected in the US, is quite inconceivable I am sure.

I think the severity of the situation is determined by the cultural and religious backgrounds to where the gay royal(s) comes from. I mean, in Spain an openly gay royal would be met with much resentment and misunderstanding. This may also go for Luxembourg, Belgium (?), Jordan etc.

In Denmark, I believe it would not be an issue due to the advanced and modern approach this nation has taken and implemented in reagrds to the acceptance and equal rights of homosexuals. I would imagine that the same would go for the Netherlands, possibly Norway (?) & Sweden (?) and 'to some degree' the UK.

"MII"

 

[crisiñaki]

The Catholic societies are much less open to gay people, your average Joe in the street much less of a King or Queen who should be the "moral support" the "role model" of the country and since the Vatican doesn't approve the homosexuality, his/her behavior would be considered sinful by them and they have a big say in societies like Spain or Belgium so I think a gay ruler for these countries is absolutely out of the question for the time being and the near future

I'm catholic, but I believe that everyone has the same rights regardless of their sexual preferences; but sadly in my country people don't accept a gay son/daughter and I believe is because of the religion point of view...

 

[Margrethe II]

The Catholic societies are much less open to gay people, your average Joe in the street much less of a King or Queen who should be the "moral support" the "role model" of the country and since the Vatican doesn't approve the homosexuality, his/her behavior would be considered sinful by them and they have a big say in societies like Spain or Belgium so I think a gay ruler for these countries is absolutely out of the question for the time being and the near future

I'm catholic, but I believe that everyone has the same rights regardless of their sexual preferences; but sadly in my country people don't accept a gay son/daughter and I believe is because of the religion point of view...

Thanks for your view crisiñaki...


"MII"

 

[crisiñaki]

Thanks for your view crisiñaki...


"MII"

You're welcome Margrethe!!!

 

[JPhinala]

I may not be an American citizen, but to say that a gay president of the United States would be shot, is quite shocking, let alone a sure sign of a backward society.

And the chances of an openly gay president ever being elected in the US, is quite inconceivable I am sure.

I think the severity of the situation is determined by the cultural and religious backgrounds to where the gay royal(s) comes from. I mean, in Spain an openly gay royal would be met with much resentment and misunderstanding. This may also go for Luxembourg, Belgium (?), Jordan etc.

In Denmark, I believe it would not be an issue due to the advanced and modern approach this nation has taken and implemented in reagrds to the acceptance and equal rights of homosexuals. I would imagine that the same would go for the Netherlands, possibly Norway (?) & Sweden (?) and 'to some degree' the UK.

"MII"

I'm glad to hear that maybe somewhere else in the world there is still hope for humanity! Thank you MII!

 

[Skydragon]

Well, they're calling them civil unions but they really are marriage as you can get married in church etc and do the whole vows things. But it is basically marriage - Elton John and George Michael are both doing it in January I think.

Are you sure BeatrixFan, that they can marry in church and make the same vows?
I understood from this bill, they can only have a civil ceremony.
A minority of the anglican church is happy to accept a gay priest but, it seemed hypocritical not to accept a gay marriage, which is the reason it stuck in my head.

Even with the change in marital status, I still don't see the acceptance of an openly gay monarch.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Well, basically, you can have a civil ceremony in a registry office and then go to a gay friendly church and have a blessing ceremony where you can make vows. It isn't classed as marriage, it's classed as a blessing ceremony.

 

[Idriel]

Well, basically, you can have a civil ceremony in a registry office and then go to a gay friendly church and have a blessing ceremony where you can make vows. It isn't classed as marriage, it's classed as a blessing ceremony.

Is that similar to what Charles and Camilla had or is it a totally different thing?
About Spain: I read not long ago that a a Spanish Duke who intended to marry his gay lover in a near future was faced with Spanish top aristocratic clubs refusing to recognise nor accept his to-be husband... (normally the spouse of a member is welcome).

 

[MOLEY]

yes i wonder how the gentlemans clubs of st james's (london) will react when a member wants to take their new partner. i myself have not been invited to a family event for years as they dont like my sort. i would arrive with a partner in full drag so as to annoy them so maybe they just want to play safe and keep telling me there is simply no room in the church etc...

The Duke of Argyll, husband of Princess Louise was rumored to be gay and not forgetting the husband of princess marie-louise ( prince aribert of anhalt) was gay hence why they divorced in 1900.(i think)

 

[btsnyder]

I don't know about the situation for gay men in other countries but I know that if, here (In the US) there were a gay president he'd be shot. I think that for the most part, gay princes in other countries would become EXTREMELY unpopular and that the royal family would become a joke. I'm gay and I think that that's totally horrid but that's what I see as the realistic truth.

Hey JPhinala - I bet you're from one of the square states in the middle aren't you? You need to get to one of the coasts. I'm gay too, live on the East Coast and I must say I feel much less persecuted than you seem to.

Anyway, I doubt very highly that openly gay royalty would even merit a discussion in the Scandanavian countries, or Northern Continental Europe for that matter. They're so much more evolved that much of the rest of the world when it comes to things like this.